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 No.1[Reply]

A board for meta-discussion of BL and fujoshi.

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 No.3208[Reply]

Thread for meta-commentary on trends in the fujoshphere, including but not limited to:
>The recent dearth of fujo-friendly IPs and the overall decline of female-targeted series
>Observations and trends about fujo fan activities
>Differences in fan culture between Japanese fujos, Korean/Chinese fujos, Western fujos and the rest of the world
>Predictions or theories about the BL industry
This is not a thread for pro/anti discourse (>>2521) or complaining about the genderspecial infestation (>>541) - threads for those topics already exist.

I was looking at the stats for Comiket 103 and I couldn't help but notice a lack of fujo presence. Picrel is a list of the genre codes and the number of registered circles under them. The genre code is a category that each circle choose upon registration; they can be dedicated to a single franchise (eg 234 Touhou, 331 Kantai Collection, 335 Uma Musume, 222 VTubers) or encompass an entire category (eg 315 Romance, Social games for women which is where games like Ensemble Stars and Twisted Wonderland would fall). Some of them like 600 Reviews/Information or 611 Railways/Travel aren't related to manga/anime at all.

It's obvious that Blue Archive and VTubers swept this Comiket, with mainstays like Kantai Collection, Uma Musume, Idolmaster and Type-Moon ranking high. In other words, all franchises for men. On the other hand, the fujo mainstays like Tiger and Bunny and Touken Ranbu look puny in comparison. Yuri on Ice is a certified fujo classic but it lost its custom genre code last Comiket.

In comparison, the other picrel is a ranking of the most popular series from C89 which was winter 2015. The red bars are female-dominated genres, the blue are male and purple are unisex. From top to bottom: 1) KanColle 2) Touken Ranbu 3) Touhou 4) Idolmaster 5) Haikyuu 6) Kuroko no Basuke 7) Yowamushi Pedal 8) Love Live 9) Tiger and Bunny 10) Attack on Titan 11) Vocaloid 12) Fate series 13) Hetalia 14) Free 15) Blood Blockade Battlefront 16) Splatoon. This was the heyday of Touken Ranbu - it gave juggernauts like Touhou and IM#S a run for their money - and outside obligatory mainstays like KanColle and IdolmastPost too long. Click here to view the full text.
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 No.3887

>>3680
Have you ever thought about connecting with other fujos and doing things together? While it seems like you might prefer going solo, having someone you can hang out with or just talk to even few times can make a difference in the grand scheme of things.

 No.3888

>>3887
Nta how do you find fellow fujos to draw/write together? Doesn’t help what my interests are mostly OC.

 No.3889

>>3887
I can't travel with friends this year, they're fujoshi so that could have been cool. I'll see if I can go to small collabs or events and meet people there but the last time I did that the other costumers in these cafes just started conversations to trade coasters and ask help to take pictures of them. Not being fluent in Japanese doesn't really help but I don't think that's impossible.


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 No.13[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

as a counterpart to the hate thread. sperg about things you love.
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 No.3880

>>3879
>I also love loyal lackeys with their leaders
Woman after my own heart! Yes! And the lackey/right hand man needs to top

 No.3881

>>3879
>lawful evil and lawful neutral characters
Yes!! This is why i love Pucci from JJBA so much. Evil that comes from a place of sincere beliefs has a special flavor to it.
>allegedly strong leaders that are actually figureheads serving some twink that they look up to
You've unearthed a new need. I have to find a ship that remotely sounds like this

>>3880
>And the lackey/right hand man needs to top
YES. I really liked the Batman TV animated show as a kid and thought Batman ought to be topped by his butler-lover after my fujo awakening (if only he wasn't bald…)

>>3877
Even better if this starts to come undone while they're raising the sexual tension. Small glimpses of impatience in the submissive character, or unexpected shyness.

 No.3882

>Woman after my own heart!
Am I going insane or did I suddenly start seeing this exact sentence pop up everywhere this year?


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 No.89[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

As a counter part to the Fujo Cringe Moments, this thread is to post cringy takes by anti-fujos for us to laugh at together.
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 No.3872

>>3845
>Those excerpts are just… ugly, for lack of a better term.
It's because she has very childish sentence construction while injecting random 'fancy' words into her writing. She's basically looking up a word on WordHippo and then replacing words that would sound natural with something that jumps off the page because of how unfitting it is. This is what middle schoolers do when they first get into creative writing, and it's why their writing often reads awkwardly. Hemingway once criticized Faulkner by saying:

>"Poor Faulkner. Does he really think big emotions come from big words? He thinks I don’t know the ten-dollar words. I know them all right. But there are older and simpler and better words, and those are the ones I use."

I disagree with this because Faulkner was incredibly talented, but he had complex sentence structure to match his verbose style. If you used Faulkner's language in Hemingway's writing, it would read as unnatural because there's a stylistic mismatch. This is even more apparent with this woman because her wording is much less deliberate than Hemingway's. She seems to be stuck in the mindset that complex vocabulary = good writing, while not understanding how weak her sentence structure is.
>>3851
>Is this what novel fags buy and read these days?
Nah, this woman's writing just sucks. Her books aren't especially popular, and she hasn't seen any wider recognition since 2014-2015, as far as I'm aware (I don't use social media, so I could be wrong). There have always been unskilled authors, but unlike, say, Colleen Hoover, Brandon Sanderson, or someone else who writes poorly-written but popular books, her stories aren't entertaining enough to compensate for her lack of skill. If anything, her writing reminds me of that godawful book, Irene Iddesleigh, that CS Lewis, JRR Tolkien, and friends would clown on constantly. I do think the modern publishing industry is a disgrace, but Fujochan is not the place for me to go on about that.

 No.3874

>>3843
My bad, I thought she'd won something for a short story and that the one, single win would be something she could hold aloft while shitting on others. Awards make for some very frustrating internet arguments, because if someone has won one you can't say their work is universally bad, someone somewhere found certified value in it. Her wikipedia page even begins to the tune of high praises, before it crashes on the "controversy", so I may have been misled on people's opinion of her works. The talk page is funny because the editors went in circles trying to get a good enough source to not look like they were just beefing with her. Then someone turns up arguing about it and they have to ask "what is your relation to her". I've never seen that before and it gave me a chuckle.

Rest assured I was assuming "award winning" literature just wasn't anything I would care to read. I saw pretentious sounding titles and assumed that's just how people get in the running. I'm speaking from my own glass house though, my writing ends up with that same 'oh I'm so mythical and profound' tone in the sentence structure, and I hate it. Dropped so many writing projects because I couldn't break out of sounding like a twat. However, I at least try not to obscure what the fuck I'm describing. Only use extremely specific terminology when identifying the thing itself, not as a simile!

Also that decade is her own doing. 2014 is when she got outed by her own publisher and posted two apologies that didn't address much and blamed some of her threats on others. That's the year she stopped being nominated.

>>3845
You have no idea how hard I resisted pointing out her "Gwitch x Greek Myth" advert in previous posts. I don't know how to explain it concisely, but it feels like appealing to people without a bone of cynicism in their body. Someone who will happily eat whatever, expecting the best thing because they were told so.

 No.3878

>>3872
> This is what middle schoolers do when they first get into creative writing
It reminds me of the amateur authors that misunderstand the "vary the terms" and go all retard with this to the point at which they're even replacing pronouns and names with adjectives and attributes. You know the "The brown haired man said, while he was looking at the blue-eyed rival". Bitch I can't even remember which character the one with brown hair was, just say the names.
>She seems to be stuck in the mindset that complex vocabulary = good writing
My issue is that it's not even specialist terms, it's unnecessary stupid metaphors. I really don't care if a pavilion looks like some scorpion part, what the fuck even is this comparison? She compares things that have no similarity. I can compare a donkey with a stone if I try hard enough, but that doesn't mean that the similarity I see is natural. Personally I don't like empurpled language on principle though.


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 No.79[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

Old or new, post any stupid yaoi memes you got
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 No.3788

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>>3779
>not posting the one with Mbappe and Giroud hugging and tenderly looking at each other

 No.3829

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 No.3862

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 No.2521[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

Discuss the current state of modern fandoms with the anti/pro discourse.
>What is pro/anti discourse?
Pro and anti refers to two stands in current fandom culture of what is acceptable or not to show in fiction. Anti is someone who is against anything that can be considered problematic (incest, age gaps, abuse,etc) and pro is someone who is in favour of anything problematic. But the labels can usually be something bigger, like discourse with headcanons, whitewashing, etc etc… The problematic things are just the more common ones.
>Where do these discourses usually take place?
Usually on places like Twitter, Tumblr and Ao3, but they can also be seen in other places like Discord servers, TikTok and so on.
>Are there any reads about this?
Here's a few, feel free to post more that you find!
https://note.com/orangiah/n/n437e262ce2ce (Japanese artist explaining the whole anti/pro thing)
https://www.themarysue.com/fandom-has-a-purity-culture-problem/ (general article talking of purity culture in fandom spaces)
https://www.cbr.com/cartoon-fandom-has-a-puritanism-problem/ (article about puritanism as well as a debunk in another article saying children's media has a porn problem)

Last thread
https://archive.is/9WPtF
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 No.3826

>>3825
What I found out that week is that the Sebaciel community on twitter is quite open and feral about their preferences despite the anti pushback and I salute them for that. Honestly I'd love to see the ship get an undeniable canon confirmation because the sheer chaos it would cause in the western fandom would be legendary.

 No.3827

>>3749
Just gonna come out and say it, based on mt experience between these two options Kawoshin is the self-insert ship for gay men and sebaciel is the true iconic fujoship.

 No.3828

>>3827
That's an interesting take. For me Evangelion was one of the first anime I watched that wasn't a normie kid anime like pokemon so Kawoshin was my fujo awakening.


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 No.861[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

Life's not fair, especially for fujoshi, and even more so for fujoshi exclusively attracted to males. Post your frustrations and things that are on your mind, no matter how harsh it sounds, about advantages everyone else has that fujoshi don't get.

For example, there's been a lot of indie anime clothing/anime streetwear brands that just slap a generic picture of an anime girl OC, throw it on a store, and make 6 figures. Why don't they have some shirts with cute anime boys on them? Why aren't there clothing brands out there that have generic anime boy "OCs" on that look like every other black/brown-haired protagonist on them? Why aren't there more yaoi-related clothing other than a generic snapback that says "YAOI" on it? How come there's hentai and yuri related clothing and merch in abundance, but finding anything BL related is like finding a needle in a haystack?
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 No.3817

>>3815
People also often bring up Kubo calling Sangwoo straight to "prove" that it's not BL. Even if we go with that: KS has a bunch of gay sex, the focus is on a relationship between men, and at the very least Yoonbum is attracted to men so I still don't why it wouldn't be categorized as such. Plus the whole "characters in BL are actually straight but have an exception for the seme/uke" isn't an uncommon mindset, especially for old series. I'm not sure how Japanese mangaka perceive it nowadays but characters were never really viewed as gay/bisexual even if they were romantically and sexually attracted to one another.

 No.3823

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>>3817
All great points. The author herself has even referred to it as BL (picrel), despite the common misconception that she denied that it belonged in the genre (what she actually said, if I remember, is that the story is not ROMANTIC, which is an entirely different statement). I hate defending KS's status as BL because, again, I didn't find it to be a particularly competent psychological thriller, but the people suggesting it's not supposed to be BL are delusional. I especially hate the argument that it's not BL on the grounds that there is no romance, as though stories like Romeo and Juliet are not part of the 'romance' genre despite it depicting the downfall of two stupid teenagers who are infatuated with each other rather than genuine love. The entire genre of gothic romance is built upon unhealthy relationships, often bordering on obsession rather than true love, and nobody's trying to omit certain works from that genre just because the leads aren't in love or whatever.
>>3803
It's kind of funny people get upset over these obviously negative portrayals of abuse (I've never read Jinx, but I assume it's similar to KS). I mean, Sangwoo is ultimately punished for his actions; his death isn't exactly a dignified one. It often feels like people want nothing bad to ever happen in fiction, and the portrayal of bad behavior is an endorsement of it.

 No.3824

>>3823
>I've never read Jinx, but I assume it's similar to KS
This is what kills me. It's not. The seme is rapey and mean, but it's never played as horror at all. It's framed like a rehashed version of, "Sad uke pines after mean seme and mean seme doesn't know he loves him until sad uke leaves and then mean seme realizes he was a dick and has to make it up to him." But the way they talk about it, you'd think the seme beats the shit out of him or stabs him or something. I think the KS sperging would honestly be even worse if it came out today, though. It was really bad when it came out, but I think now people would be emailing the publishers to complain.


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 No.3664[Reply]

The sentence "If you'd replace one or two of the main leads with women, nothing changes" made me wonder if Yoai or Bl can benefit from a bit of realism. I'm on camp neutral, personally. I don't mind some reality in my m/m smut, but one of the reasons I like BL and Joseimuke is the decoupling expectations.
Men in these stories are borne under an idealized version women yearned for but never got because society at large forces men to be something they're not, and they all believe it. Buying into lies has caused men to double down on their misogyny over the years, harming both women, children, and themselves. And when they do reach that truth, they either blot it out or troon it out. Men can never learn, so I've relegated myself to BL, as stupid as it sounds. I feel I have the most control when reality proves disappointing. 
(btw, is this best place to post? /ot/ seemed promising but I choose /ffs/ instead. Made the most sense and honestly, I just wanna screech about pet theories. Please don't clown on me lol)
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 No.3787

>>3776
That's the logic I've used when writing original BL. When I think about lesbian couples I know they're similar with matching hair and fashion styles, and yet I'm always shipping opposites like it's two puzzle pieces that slot together.

 No.3802

>>3782
nta but from what I have seen, it seems like casual sexual encounters are just expected, if your a gay man your partner may fuck someone at a club, and you might also have similar encounters with someone in an alleyway. but these encounters are purely physical and lack emotional involvement.

 No.3822

I wouldn't be into BL if the men acted like IRL men gay or not, I get enough of scrote bullshittery in real life and reading about them doesn't interest me. The reason I don't enjoy a lot of het stuff is specifically because the men are more like real life men which I find a huge turn off.


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 No.2387[Reply]

Text thread for /ffs/

Text_thread
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 No.3534

>>2476

Extremely late, but I’m answering in case you still want to know or anyone else is wondering. I also love Hashihime, and while UuultraC isn’t quite as good, I still really enjoyed it and consider it one of the best BL games I’ve played. It has a very different tone, though, so don’t go in expecting the same thing or you’ll be disappointed. It’s much more fantastical and abstract than Hashihime, and it can take a while to 100% understand what’s happening. I’ve seen some people describe it as ‘confusing,’ but I think it’s mostly the first 1/3 that filters people. When you reach the ending, it’s all pretty clear. One of my favorite things about Hashihime is Tamamori, as the author did a great job of fleshing out his personality and all of his neuroses. UuultraC has three protagonists, and they’re very different from one another. They’re all well-written, though, and you get pretty diverse PoVs as a result. The author has a real talent for writing her PoV characters. Rather than following a route system like Hashihime, you follow three separate couples in a set play order. Their stories all center around the same general plot, but from different perspectives. Having separate couples is kind of nice because the relationships feel very integrated into the story and natural. You’re also not stuck with anyone for too long if there’s one protagonist you dislike. There’s also an insane number of CGs, as in, 1,800ish.

Minor spoilers that answer your last question, but I tried to keep it vague: No, there’s no robot fucking. The people who fight the kaiju are more like Power Rangers than robots or mech pilots. Some of the human characters can turn into kaiju, which are basically just big monsters. If you’re put off by the giant monsters, I’ll warn you that there is an h-scene that involves one of the boys in a more monstrous form, but I remember him being humanoid through, like, the majority of it. Most of the h-scenes are pretty normal aside from a few, and assuming you’ve played a couple of VNs, I don’t think there’s anything here to worry about.

It’s worth a shot. I don’t regret playing it, but it has much less universal appeal than Hashihime. I'd say to avoid it if you're not into abstract stories with a lot left up to interpretation. It’s a really fun game for analyzing its themes/characters, if you’re into that. TherPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

 No.3535

>>3534
I'm actually the one that you replied to. I actually played UUUltrac a few months ago and really enjoyed it. If anyone else is thinking about playing it I really recommend it. I am obsessed with Yomi to an unhealthy degree.

 No.3773

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>>2476
I loved it, but I'm an /m/ user, so I might be biased. It has so many references to /m/ stuff. An all-female version of /m/ would never stop fawning over it.


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 No.2[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

Post shit in BL you hate. I'll start: everything about 'Obey Me' is awful.
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 No.3766

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>>3764
NTA but have you tried Uncanny Charm? I'm not sure if that still counts as "soulless," but I liked the art style (it has a simplified style that I think works in service of the format) and even though it's long, I thought the plot was good at justifying itself and I really liked it.

 No.3771

>>3766
I have not! I'm not in love with the style (it still kind of has that look to it based on the images you posted kek), but I'm willing to overlook it if the plot is good. I'll give it a shot, at least, because the premise sounds interesting. Regardless of if I enjoy it, I appreciate that you recommended something!

 No.3772

>>3771
I think it's a lot better than what most webtoons have to offer in terms of art, so if this doesn't satisfy you, it really might just not be the medium for you (at least not yet), because the tight turnaround demands an inhuman speed that is pretty hard to make look detailed. I like the colored aspect of webtoons, but until they have more than a week to get out chapters and/or more helpers, it'll probably stay this way. Sorry nona, hope you can at least get something from it. The only webtoon that has art and plot that I find genuinely outstanding is a GL ("I love Amy"), but maybe someday there'll be better options.


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