No.7267
>>7228The catch phrase is from a song
No.7268
>>7229To be honest I also read manga in the subways. This is different than merch for me. Personally I am not the guy that identifies with anything and I don't like labels so I am dressed very neutral and don't wear accessories or anything (they have no practical use anyway). Wearing anime merch is a statement IMO or at least an identity thing. I watch and read a lot of anime/manga and casually even buy figures and doujinshi but never identified as nerd so maybe it's that.
>>7232Yeah I became fan of anime because of Italy. I was often there as kid since I'm half-Italian and understand Italian so I watched tv there and they were airing a lot of cool shit Germany didn't about like Slayers, Queen Millennia, Lupin, Saint Seiya etc. Italy's taste is generally much better AFAIK they also love horror, giallos and shit like Dorohedoro sells very well there if I am informed right while it barely sells here. Manga in general are selling well and we get tons of series but it's the same few series and genres that make 95%+ of the money, namely the big name shounen and romcoms. We get endless new releases of yaoi since the early 00s so I assume they'll sell well too, but maybe the licenses aren't expensive either since most of these are short series.
No.7269
>>7230I genuinely don't know if this is satire or real because I scrolled the second link and saw a post with 5000 notes agreeing with forced transition.
No.7304
I don't watch Kuroshitsu..ji? you know what I mean. But I just saw an online person I know say he was surprised that this show had a "transwoman". He apparently means the red haired guy. The explanation is
> I mean in the dub this person uses female pronouns
Unless this is true (cannot confirm, since I don't watch it) dubs might be largely to blame for the increase of transwashing. I don't watch dubs EITHER so I cannot tell how common this is. Remember that English dubs aren't the only ones out there. In this case it's the Spanish dubs. I already noticed before that the ESP and Brzilian dubs seem to be pretty generous with their interpretations. My favorite man was recently openly called gay and said to flirt with the other half of my ship while it was ambivalent in the original.
No.7306
>>7304>But I just saw an online person I know say he was surprised that this show had a "transwoman". He apparently means the red haired guy. From what I could tell, Grell talks in a feminine way in the japanese version as well and it's the other characters that refer to him as a male. It's just that this character archetype, the okama, is hard to convey to a western audience. I'm not japanese so take my explanation with a grain of salt but it seems like okama are some form of feminine gay guy and/or drag queen and I've seen the term translated as 'queer' before but also just as 'drag queen'. Other example characters are Leeron from Gurren lagann and Nathan/Fire emblem from Tiger&Bunny.
No.7307
>>7306Language barriers are a real problem with gender stuff. Lots of languages even gender the adjectives so it's impossible to stay gender neutral and then again you can use male language for yourself as a woman (see "boku" in Japanese) without implying that you are trans. I do it myself in my own language, partly because feminine forms are more specific and longer and using male forms is unironically more neutral. Nobody would assume I was trans because of that but how do you convey this into English? No idea.
Usually they just skip that altogether and you have to have basic Japanese skills to realise that a woman refers to herself as boku or a man as atakushi. The first is generally kind of common, but for the latter I wouldn't equal it with trans.
On the other hand I have to ask myself what kind of speech a male character would use to show that he's trans if he actually was? Probably the same pronouns.
This is the problem. Japanese is more ambiguous about this. Drags also refer to themselves as women but aren't necessarily trans.
No.7333
>>7306Grell's way of talking is literally the Japanese version of effeminate gay "yaass sis go slay queen bring the tea" dialect because he's a literal okama, not a trans woman.
>>7307All the talk about pronouns in Japan comes from an extremely western point of view in general because all they imply are the speaker's manners/temperament and the hierarchical context rather than gender identity, like no woman who refers to herself as "boku" amidst friends will do so when addressing a higher up at work just like no man will refer to himself as "ore" in the same situation. No grown woman will refer to herself as "atashi" because it's literal cutesy baby talk. Gendered pronouns don't really exist in Asian languages because you're supposed to know the person you're talking about, kare and kanojo are often claimed to be the "he" and "she" in Japanese but nobody really uses them because it's the equivalent of xir/ximself i.e. awkward newspeak that sounds unnatural to native speakers.
No.7335
>>7333Isn't atashi more just excessively feminine and somewhat old fashioned? I feel like you either see it on young girls or old ladies with little inbetween. It was more common in the past.
Can you elaborate on kare and kanojo being newspeak? I see them used often enough. They have their use but just not as often, like for example in narrative writing.
No.7336
>>7306>the okama, is hard to convey to a western audience.It's because it's an archetype that encompasses effeminate gay men, drag queens and HSTSs all at the same time. This didn't really use to be an issue in the past because MtFs were already seen as connected to effeminate gay men and they fell under the umbrella of male homosexuality, but now they're 100% real women so fandom gendies don't really know what to make of them. One thing that's kinda weird that I see with okama characters recently is the obsession with making them brave and stunning transbians, instead of keeping their attraction to men. Frankly, I wouldn't even particularly care if fandom gendies she/her-ed okama characters if they didn't insist on making an archetype that, even using the trans interpretation, is associated with male homosexuality into AGPs. I see it all the time in Enstars fandom with Arashi who is canonically attracted to men but the fans all pretend he's a "transbian" who's into the female MC. I'm convinced fandom gendies find actual homosexuality gross at this point, even when they're given an archetype they could genuinely use to play with their tranny headcanons, they make it as aggressively heterosexual as possible.
No.7337
>>7336The okama to transbian headcanon phenomenon is amusing because most of the time in practice, making a character the okama trope is basically gay-coding. Not the delusional shit like "zomg this character has this flag's color scheme" but the creator's way of saying this character is a full blown fag. It's the one time fandombrained teens genuinely get something that can be considered queer-coding which they seem to love so much, but reject it in this case anyway. The Arashi lesbian shit always makes me laugh because outside of yume-esque lines, all he talks about is men.
No.7338
>>7336It's technically the same IMO. It's just gender-roles.
The difference is how transness is handled in the west. An okama or any other man that refers to himself as woman is aware of his biological sex and won't force others to refer to him as woman. He might say "A lady like me" or something, but doesn't react if you refer to him as man because he knows he is one.
That aside it's situational, as you said. Anime characters are weirder. So an okama might even refer to himself as lady in a job interview, but that's because they're anime characters.
Transness is basically the same, a person that LARPs or feels like the opposite gender and/or enjoys referring themselves as such. The difference is that they try to deny their (original) gender and force others to use their favorite pronouns on them. This is the central problem with trans IMO. For many you cannot even tell they're trans because they don't look or act like it, so you can't know their pronouns or will feel stupid using them.
So I think that while trans and certain subtypes of okama and drags are pretty much the same the conflict arises from the misunderstanding of the social context they are embedded in. Because nobody else from their respective series is usually referring to them as women. It's more of a roleplay. I even enjoy it, I sometimes like okama. But it lacks the political aspect and seriousness of western transness.
No.8010
>>7325>one sub translates "hito" as "lady">the other translates "hito" as "young man"Wow, even TRANlators can't into the English language.
>>7304The funny thing is that they picked Jun Fukuyama for the role - the epitome of a manly voice at the time. Grell doesn't even pretend to sound like a woman. He should be speaking with the gay lisp in the dub.
No.8055
>>8054This is literally transwashing in a nutshell.
It's self-validation through gay shipping, just the need to see "positive transmasc rep" through a pussyfied male. Completely incapable of not self-inserting
No.8056
>>8054I hate troons so fucking much
No.8058
>>8057Imagine if I showed these people shota porn and I was like "Actually these characters are 30 years old so it's porn of adults." It's basically the same logic as pretending straight sex is gay because of pronouns.
No.8059
>>8058These people don't abide by logic I'm afraid, they abide by their retarded gender religion and religion isn't supposed to be questioned
No.8060
>>8058Reminds me (which I'm sure it was mentioned before), there's this strange trend of also drawing / writing shota with vaginas as well. It's not tagged or warned about whatsoever and you just have to accept it. In fact, nowadays every 7 out of 10 shota-related fanfic or art has the shota with a pussy. Good luck if it's somehow also not an abuse-projection fic also.
No.8061
>>8054Totally offtopic but I fucking love collecting people's reasons to hate Mel that are nothing to do with male writers fucking up her story arc. I saw an artist who decided to make Vi black because she needed more black lead characters in fiction, but didn't even consider drawing Mel or bending over backwards to find her a fxf ship to replace Jayce. Yes the artist was trans. No they didn't notice the believably trans cat person character.
No.8062
>>8061If social media didn’t talk about the character, no wonder they didn’t draw them. Half of the people involved in fandom haven’t seen the entirety of the show. This is also why fics and fan art tend to reference a lot of fandom memes, because that’s their only exposure to the original work.
No.8063
>>8061I didn't hate Mel but I liked her mom so much more. Not in the Arcane fandom but I kek over how I don't see Ekko or Heimeidenger or the other characters, just fucking JAYVIK and Jynx and the yuri discourse around caitvi. Sky doesn't exist in fandom either aside from jayvik antis insisting she's Viktor's lover kek
No.8131
One big reason out of the many as to why I can't get into transbending is not just because of the aesthetics or shit art but because even if I wanted to take it seriously in "earnest", it just feels so oddly sexist? despite trying to be "woke".
Like, what defines a character being "trans" exactly (when they're canonically not)?
What makes this male character more transmasc leaning than transfem? or viceversa? Why do all the pussyboys all so HAPPEN to always be the bottom, effeminate-looking guys, basically turned into girls-turned-man?
Also, despite so many ayydens being supposedly "dysphoric" over being women or being reminded of 'woman-only' things, they sure don't mind making impregnation jokes or making their designated trans character pregnant.
It has always bothered me, "this character is transfem" only because they either look too girly or 'behave' girly, but wouldn't it be more natural to simply think of them as men that just act out of the norm of 3DPD men? If a fictional man likes girly hobbies or looks effeminate and you call him a woman, isn't this reinforcing sexist stereotypes?
The same for "this character is transmasc" as if it can't be possible that a natural born male character doesn't somehow acts "like a man", they must have been born a woman or something and therefore if that character is weak is because they're essentially women. Isn't that odd?
No.8132
>>8131If the person doing the bending isn't trans, it's usually because they're a hetfag that can't enjoy porn unless it's PiV. If they're trans, then it's just projection of their genderfeelz onto their fave. There's no rhyme or reason to which characters get picked but there are trends.
>Canon gender issues: Unavoidable>Angst: especially if it's something easy to project onto like shitty parents, even when it comes off as unbelievable that abusive parents would also be using their kid's new name and pronouns.>Any sort of identity related plot whether it's something as simple as the character having more than one name or being insecure in themselves, especially if family expectations.>Pretty/feminine appearance: if a guy crossdresses he's done for, but long hair, being short, having eyelashes or weirdly round hips for a guy will easily do it. When people project their genderfeelz onto these characters it's just a crypto way of saying 'he looks like he could be a woman, or close enough if you squint', which yeah, is just crypto sexism. It's just reinventing the wheel of 'this guy is shorter and prettier and has a rounder butt so he has to be an uke'. No.8300
>did the math
>40% of fics for one of my favorite ships has gendie shit or hetified the ship
And that’s not including the untagged ones that I’ve come across. There’s a little less than 1000 fics of them. That’s almost 400 fics of gendie/het shit. The real nail in the coffin was coming across a new fic that had a super interesting premise but one of the guys was straight up just turned into a woman. It sucks because a lot of the gendie ones have interesting premises but one of them has a pussy. Not that there aren’t interesting ones without gendie shit, but a lot of the non-gendie ones tend to be pwp oneshots. And I remember reading one that was still updating and the author was like “how do yall feel if I turn uke-kun into a tif?” Thankfully everyone in the comments were not for it and the author complied to keep the ship gay. But dear god did my heart drop when I saw that. I’m pretty sure that author is still writing for them but it’s all gendie stuff now.
No.8302
>>8300I know the feeling. Last time I checked, het shit made up more than a 1/3 of explicit fics for my otp. A little less brutal than 40%, but not that far off. Fanart is cooked completely, I'm starting to think being an artist in the west comes with some sort of mental illness
> And I remember reading one that was still updating and the author was like “how do yall feel if I turn uke-kun into a tif?”Holy shit, I had the same thing happen to me??? Except that most of the comments supported it!!! The author decided to post two versions to appeal to everyone, but I still hated it. Is this the future of yaoi shipping? With every gay sex scenario comes a straight reimagining of that scenario? The absolute state of it all. You're not alone in your frustration, sister. I hope every gendie in your fandom gets a violent diarrhea.
No.8304
>>8300The feeling I get is that 15 years ago, the people writing this stuff would not be writing BL in the first place.
No.8306
>>8302Weirdly I rarely if ever come across explicit fanart of them so I haven’t had issues it, but I’ve seen other gay ships that have an excess amount of piv fanart.
>Is this the future of yaoi shipping? With every gay sex scenario comes a straight reimagining of that scenario?I sure as hell hope not. I’m praying this era of hetification is just a blip on the timeline and in another decade it’ll be considered cringe by the masses.
>I hope every gendie in your fandom gets a violent diarrhealol that’s a lot of gendies. It’s a fandom with some of the highest rates of gendies. I’ve unironically never met a fan of it that wasn’t some flavor of gendie.
>>8304They 100% would’ve been shipping both halves with one of the girls or even an oc. They probably would’ve also made anti-fujo stamps on deviantart specifically for this ship because it would go against their straight one. I legitimately feel like the tifs that are currently hetifying gay ships evolved from past anti-fujos.
No.8308
>>8302>The author decided to post two versions to appeal to everyone, but I still hated it.I think I know the exact fic you are talking about. The sex was really bad anyway so no great loss, but still…
>Is this the future of yaoi shipping? With every gay sex scenario comes a straight reimagining of that scenario?Gun to my head, I'd prefer at least having an option as opposed to being served nothing but straight sex masquerading as gay sex. But I agree it's a very sad state of affairs. It'd be less concerning if it was a small minority, but when it becomes a sizeable percentage of a fandom… The last fandom I was openly involved in on social media was nearly 10 years ago, and I had to quit cold turkey because the trans stuff was becoming too prevalent for me. To hear that it's apparently only gotten worse is depressing as hell.
No.8310
>>8132>then it's just projection of their genderfeelz onto their fave. One of the most egregious examples of this I’ve seen recently is a fanfic author writing the uke as trans but still having the clit be referred to as a dick. The cope is on a whole new level, it’s honestly pathetic to see. The author had some good stuff previously but suddenly started flooding the ship tag with this shit, it’s a shame.
No.8632
>>8631I've honestly never encountered tif x tif in fanfic. I've seen it in fanart
I think lacryboy's even made a few tif/tif riddlebat stuff. But I suspect that tiktoker might just be a tif chaser.
No.8636
>>8632>even made a few tif/tif riddlebat stuffnope, she's never made any ftm/cunyboy riddlebat stuff
No.8638
>>8636Huh, I checked and yeah looks like she didn't. I know she did a few pictures where there was a dick version and a tif version. Probably misremembered one of those.
No.8643
>>8054I only know ONE jayvik artist (and writer) that draws jayvik with no cuntboy shit. There was this one called Ellen something that drew some good porn of them but ended up drawing cuntboy later on and then said they had been on T before. Don't even get me starded on the retards who actually get bothered by viktor with cock and balls. How did these people survive the show
No.8644
>>8302are you talking about that one jayvik fanfic with possessive jayce? The writing was so shit in the end that my hate for that cuntboy version went away. I fucking hate westerns
No.8646
>>8304I keep thinking of back in 2013-2016 were cuntboy was almost impossible to find so while i was in the aot fandom it was paradise. If riren/ereri was popular nowadays like jayvik, i bet my ass at least half of their porn would be PIV…
No.8647
>>8646Maybe it was fandom-dependent, because it must have been at least since 2013 or earlier that I saw trans headcanons starting to pop up in Homestuck fandom (usually Dave). By 2015 Undertale was out and it was already a popular trope. But at least anecdotally I don't remember Ao3 being as flooded with PIV as it was now. Omegas still mostly had dicks back then too. If it was a big fandom, you'd be seeing a small handful of vaginafics every now and again, but now, you'll probably be seeing multiple every page, and depending on the ship, it could be the majority of the page. (Press F for shota and femboy characters)
>AOTI wasn't in this fandom but I'm sure Levi got tons of trans h/cs even back then for being short, so it would definitely be unavoidable now.
No.8648
>>8647>Levi got tons of trans h/cs even back thenReally? He was such a Husbando back then, i thought that so many women wanting to fuck him would make him almost anti-tranny headcanons. I never saw anything of the like, not even with Armin
No.8649
>>8646>>8648The AOT fandom was already total shit back in 2014 because of the anime adaptation becoming so popular. At first people just enjoyed it for what it was then before the first season ended it was all bullshit like:
>I misinterpreted a vague sentence from the mangaka so that means Hanji is canonically non binary>Armin/Levi is short and cute so he's a transman and if you disagree you're transphobic and we'll dox you>if you don't think Annie blushing and laughing in the last episode is sexist then you're sexist too. The studio ruined the mangaka's vision that scene wasn't in the manga. What do you mean the mangaka planned to put this in the manga in the first place? I don't believe you and the evidence you posted/linked>the story and some characters were inspired by real historical events and people? The mangaka is a nazi and if you enjoyed the anime without even knowing about his secret nazi twitter account you're a nazi tooI stopped caring because the pacing of the manga was too slow for me at the time and the second season was released too late for me but I saw the fandom didn't get any better with time.
No.8651
>>8647>Maybe it was fandom-dependentI remember the first vaginafic I came across was a free! fanfic. Prior to free! I only read western live action fanfic and never actually came across vaginafic (not including fics where the character was normal genderbent and properly tagged as M/F) in live action fandoms until more recently. Like I’ve never come across tif/cuntboy Merthur fics ever. I know they exist, but it’s definitely buried deep in the void of ao3’s Merthur tag.
>Press F for shota and femboy charactersUnironically the free! fanfic was one of the shota/femboy characters. I’m pretty sure the author deleted the fic though because I’ve never seen it since.
No.8653
>>8649>the story and some characters were inspired by real historical events and people? The mangaka is a nazi and if you enjoyed the anime without even knowing about his secret nazi twitter account you're a nazi tooi was peripherally aware of mystical titan concentration camps via meltdowns on my tumblr dash but could never tell if the outrage had any substance or not. honestly it didn’t seem that much more egregious than xmen using the holocaust as a major theme but maybe i was totally out of the loop.
No.8655
>>8643>Don't even get me starded on the retards who actually get bothered by viktor with cock and ballsDo people like this actually exist? Holy shit. That's just shipping het.
No.8656
>>8655if you ever confronted them about it they would just call it a joke but i can see the seething behind those words. Also a part of the fanbase hates bottom jayce because they refuse to see viktor having a cock (thus being masculine) and fucking jayce in the ass
No.8658
>The studio ruined the mangaka's vision
People who say this most of the time have their own vision of the manga, which they pretend aligns with the mangaka.
I remember some sperg screeching at me about Japanese context and anime vs manga accuracy, so I talked with a native Japanese mutual that explained to me the context, and this person after being btfo just accused them of using chatgpt and not even being Japanese kek