/ffs/ - Fujo Fandom Sperging

>>10172
>if you wanted to have sex with a literal dead fish (even during rape) then Maki is the uke for you
That ticked me off so much. Physically I liked him (and the old guy) a lot but jesus his sex scenes were just a waste of time. Borderline asexual shit. I think he only got a little livelier in the final one right at the end. Do Japanese fujos have a fetish for nonresponsive guys or what? Surely there's gotta be better ways to write stoic characters

>>10166
>Ah yes, homeless people eating tree bark is soooo sexy! Seriously did anyone like this guy?
My favorite thing about Nano is how nobody gives a fuck about him so I can pretend he doesn't exist.

>>10176
>Do Japanese fujos have a fetish for nonresponsive guys or what?
Maybe it’s a bigger thing in bara

>>10179
I read bara too, at least manga, can't say for vns, but even then the raped guys are visibly affected, unless they're outright knocked out or drugged

>>10176
>>10180
I recall most of the guys being pretty unresponsive aside from Hiroyuki. From what I understand, Parade is a sister brand of Clockup. I'm not invested enough to do deep research into the staff but at first glance I would wonder if the writing staff they had for Parade just didn't 'get' BL at first because Clockup makes straight VNs. Though then again Nitro+Chiral is also a sister brand and the sex scenes in Togainu weren't like that.

>>10172
>he’s basically the uke equivalent of those girls who are like “YOU CAN GIVE ME AN ONION RING AS A WEDDING RING”
Kek.
>if you wanted to have sex with a literal dead fish (even during rape) then Maki is the uke for you
Even though I liked the VN, I did not like Maki's route for this reason. I found him pretty boring, but I've never liked stoic characters very much. I know his stoicism is the point, but it's just not a character type I enjoy.

>>10181
I think the intention with NTY was to make a VN that bridges the gap between bara and BL to appeal to both audiences, so they took tropes from both without understanding what made them appealing in each of their respective genres and awkwardly smashed them together
>BLge generally has more of a focus on plot while barage focuses more on sex so there's way too many sex scenes in the game with hastily added in plot at the end of the routes
>They tried to put tsundere characteristics onto most of the characters but those don't work as well when the character themself isn't cute so it ends with them being a dead fish
>bisexual protagonist in the sense that he's constantly talking about how much he loves fucking tits and dick instead of in the more subdued way that BL protagonists act.
They kind of had the better idea with room no 9 (making it a gay version of euphoria) since that does have a niche audience it could appeal to.

I don't understand the appeal of genderbends. I don't mean like, "hey, it would be cool to see what this character would look like as the opposite sex. I'm going to draw it, and that will be the end of it." I'm talking about things like taking characters from a BL series, turning one of them female, and making a ship het. This isn't an unpopular opinion on this site (or in most fujo communities), but I think this next part might be: I also don't understand when people take two female characters or a male and female character, and then make them both male. I just don't understand the appeal. I don't mind when people do it, and I don't mean any hate toward anyone who does enjoy this, but it is something I can't appreciate because changing their sexes will fundamentally affect how those characters interact with the world, thereby making the characters different people from who they otherwise would've been. Thus, they're no longer the same people as the characters I came to like. For example, in a generic medieval setting, if you change the princess to a prince, he will have different expectations from his family, he will not face the same type of sexism his female counterpart would face, and his relationship with the knight will now be forbidden by his family because they cannot produce an heir. Even if you keep his personality the same, he's now a completely different character. At that point, why not make them OCs?

>>10185
Same, it just fundamentally changes who the character is in a way thst is unappealing in fic. While genderbend art is cool I have zero interests in doujins of it.

>>10185
>For example, in a generic medieval setting, if you change the princess to a prince, he will have different expectations from his family, he will not face the same type of sexism his female counterpart would face, and his relationship with the knight will now be forbidden by his family because they cannot produce an heir.
I think this kind of thing can be interesting under a competent writer/artist, specially if the character is still (assumedly) acting in-character despite the sex change.
I can like yuribends but not so much hetbends, but what I tend to hate about hetbends is when it's too "obviously" meant to be some sort of self-insert replacement or often made for just coomerbait purposes. Yuribends can work really if you only wonder "I want to see my otp as cute girls" but you need to be attuned to like girls in general,
and most of the time people don't bother to think far beyond "I want them to look like girls".

>>10185
Yeah people acting as if changing the gender won't affect the dynamics or how the character is perceived in a fundamental way are playing obtuse. The same goes for the "if he was a female character then you would all hate her" accusations. Whether we like it or not we have certain expectations and core ideals for how a representative of a gender would behave and how others would interpret their actions as, and I don't mean shit like "girls only like pink stuff and makeup and boys like cars and blue stuff" but rather stuff like "I would be fine with this male character being abusive to another male character because men are on equal footing and don't experience gendered violence, but in a heterosexual setting it would be absolutely fucked up" or "I fucking hate this trope that's overused in female characters in a derogatory way but it's subversive to see it applied to a male character". Everyone knows it but they pretend not to be aware just to frame fujos as having "double standards".

>>10185
I think genderbends are fine within reason. Like, it's not hurting anyone nor do I give a shit. It only starts becoming a problem when people wokeify the concept or turns it into headcanon.

>>10221
I like genderbends, both male and female, as a fun thing. Especially in fanart if the artist gives them a cute or creative design. They should always be tagged though, and I wouldn't read a fic or dj of a couple genderbent into het.

>>10222
See I'm with the other nonna that while this art is cute I still wouldn't go out of my way to read MaleReimu/MaleYukari. It's just not the same characters and too big of a deviation from canon for me. I'd rather read Rinnosuke/OMC if I really needed 2hu yaoi.
Cute speculative designs aren't enough to sway me evennif they're fun.

i made a post here around a year ago complaining about the bottom geto side of the fandom when it comes to the satosugu ship.
well, i'm back to set things straight and clean up their name.

it's not the bottom geto part that is the problem. sure, there's annoying and ~toxic~ people in there too, but the real issue are the bottom gojos, and here's why:

1) they're more likely to be antis. i think bottom gojo attracts a younger audience because gojo is the 'it guy' of jujutsu kaisen, so shit-tok fans flock to the dynamic where he takes it up the ass, given it's a well documented fact that most fans prefer seeing their fave bottoming. a lot of bottom gojos are moral panic, pearl clutchers hypocrites underage girls who will sperg out at smut of them as 17 years old, let alone anything naughtier

2) it's aiden central, and with a twist. for some reason, maybe because gojo looks arguably a bit more masculine than geto (taller and yeah, broader too even though bottom gojos will deny this, shorter hair etc.) he might be a better self-insert for trans guys, so there's considerably more art and fics of trans gojo/cuntboy than trans geto. if that's your thing fret not, it's still bad. because i've read many complaints of trans guys regarding how trans gojo is portrayed most of the times. turns out it's done in an insensitive way that ~triggers~ them a lot, such as apparently calling trans dude gojo "woman-things" anyways

(1/2)

>>10295

3) mischaracterization. bottom gojo fans in order to push their agenda blatantly disregard canon facts of the manga and the characters' actual personalities. this is because gojo all in all fits the seme stereotype better than geto, so they exaggerate gojo's vulnerable and cutesy traits rewriting history so that it makes more sense for him to bottom. the result is a completely different from the story, cringe daddy dom geto and a woobified gojo that acts like a literal child. it's not that it's 'weird' because i dont care about moralizing fiction, but it is still very irritating, ooc and personally just not my thing. also, they dont stick to this in their fics only, but insist this is the reality of the canon material too when it’s just not and throw tantrums if everyone doesn't agree with them

4) they harass more and lack fandom etiquette. since they're the majority (in the western part of the fandom only though), usually younger and were shaped up by tiktok and to a degree twitter, they are louder and more annoying and literally don't know how to co-exist in a fandom space. they will go under bottom geto posts and comment shit like "gojo bottoms though!", leave hate under bottom geto fics, and go as far as creating fake bottom geto accounts to give these shippers a bad name by acting like psychos while impersonating a bottom geto fan.

there is more too actually, but this got too long. as i said, bottom getos aren't perfect either and overall the jujutsu kaisen fandom is a trainwreck no matter where you turn, but bottom gojos are literally some of the worst shippers i've ever seen in my 10+ years of being a fujo

>>10295
imo they're a ship that fits most as being switches. in fact, i think a lot of ships would benefit from it, not having assigned 'roles' for characters is deeply unpopular in most fandoms.

>>10297
i completely agree with you nonna. i'm not a big fan of switching in general, but they're one of those ships that scream "switch" to me. bottom gojos being this annoying turns me off from the dynamic a lot though.
do you have any other switch ships?

>>10296
This isn't really about your ship, but
>gojo all in all fits the seme stereotype better than geto
My hot take is that I really don't care about characters in ships fitting those 'stereotypes' at all, and I disagree with people who decide that certain characters are 'absolute' tops or bottoms for every dynamic, if that makes sense. Topping/bottoming depends more on the ship, like for example in the AxB ship i would want A to top, but in a CxA ship I want A to bottom. I don't understand people who are so extreme about it and insist that their blorbo must bottom for every character in the series or that no dicks can ever go near his ass.

>>10299
i get what you're saying nona, but i think there are physical and personality characteristics that are culturally associated with topping more than bottoming and vice-versa. i'm not saying that one has to base their preference around said characteristics at all, and even as more of a tradjoshi i recognize the appeal of choosing a more unpredictable dynamic.

the thing is that these shippers will intentionally warp canon information to make gojo be more immediately associated with an uke role (claim he has a more delicate physique than geto, that his personality isn't actually rowdier) and insist it's canon facts when it's not. but regardless, i ofc think one can pick their t/b preferences without being influenced by which choice would make 'more sense'

>>10296
>cringe daddy dom geto and a woobified gojo that acts like a literal child
Thank god I'm not the only one who thinks gego is ooc. I don't mind it in theory but in practice what I've seen with my own two eyes was barely recognizable characters. And I avoid the English speaking side of the fandom so here I'm talking about the Japanese and Korean fans drawing doujinshi where Gojo and Geto look like themselves but don't act like themselves at all regardless of sex scenes.

>>10302
so even the asian fandom suffers from this issue… to me, as for you, bottom gojo is fine, i can see the switch appeal for satosugu and i'm not one to police what other people like. however it is definitely veeery ooc, and that would be okay if it stayed in the confines of dojinshi/fics. but their shippers want to push their narrative as canon and harass everyone who disagrees with their ao3 kaisen

>>10297
As some guy on twitter once said, they're more freaky frotters than anything.

>>10304
The Asian side doesn't have the pro and anti drama frol Western fandoms and fans tend to be actual fans and not kids readinf badly translated leaked pages in the wronf order on tiktok, but everything you said about how Gojo and Geto are portrayed in gego doujinshi and art is true. It's always Gojo becoming a bit shorter than he really is for some reason, Gojo acting like a kawaii uguu waifu saying no all the time with tears in his eyes and blushing like a tomato but Geto is stoic, just smirk or blushes a tiny little bit, smokes even more than Shoko, like who the fuck are these people? The ones who don't do it tend to not ship them in a specific order and often draw and ship both goge and gego, and tag their sfw art as 五夏五 or 夏五夏 to indicate there's no fixed order in their art. Even when goge fans make them ooc it hapoens a lot less often imo.

i'm a sex-negative profic/proship (i hate these terms but i need them to paint the picture). i have no sexual trauma that i know of but the reality of sex/sexuality depresses me a bit, randomly. we exist. ive gotten way better with dealing with this particular issue as time went on, and now it resurfaces only on occasion. even when i was at the height of my hatred for how human sexuality works i was still very in favor of all kinds of fictional expressions of horniness, and never once used words like fetishization to refer to attraction. ive met quite a few people who feel the same way (especially artists)

i find a more bizarre combination that a lot of antis are very sexual and horny post on main often etc. and all in all seem very happily in touch with this sphere of life. this puritanism antis are depicted as having hasn't been entirely true in my experience, at least not when it comes to sex as a whole

I don't particularly mind when one of the guys in my favorite ship gets in a relationship with a woman because I think cheating is hot.

>>10501
Do you mean cheating on the woman with another man or cheating on him with a chick? I can only get behind the former, but yeah I agree and it's why one half of my pairing canonically getting with a woman won't stop me lol.

>>10501
You're a stronger woman than me nonna, I get so mad when they give my blorbos canonical romances. Normies who want their male self-inserts mcs to have girlfriends never put as much passion into fandoms as fujos do, why do they always get to have everything while we continue to be ostracized? They won't even appreciate it as much as a fujo would appreciate a little fanservice. But it's also my fault for continuing to hyperfixate on media that isn't fujo-oriented

I don't really mind the fact more 'problematic' bl is gaining traction. I've been able to make more friends and I'm glad younger ppl are getting off their imaginary high horses over fiction. I also just think it's funny to watch people come up with excuses and defenses to liking said problematic bl kdjkdksl

>>10508
>more 'problematic' bl is gaining traction
Is it really? Is the world finally healing?

>>10509
I do see a lot of pushback to antis, lately. It makes me smile every time I see people telling them to get therapy and that they're mentally ill for confusing fiction and reality. Nature is healing.

>>10509
>>10510
I have noticed a lot of pushback to the point where you can easily tell that most antis now are either 12, homophobic, or yumes (a lot of them hate seeing ships of their husbando). Just a few years ago they had more variety and now they are on life support because the main fandom contributors have gotten fed up with them. They’ll probably crop back up again eventually, fandom tends to do that thing where they rehash the same topics with different wokespeak.

>My unpopular opinion among fujochan nonas
Some ships I have are reversible
>My unpopular opinion among other fujos
I'm still a sucker for the Badass Seme x Weepy Uke, even though I like it better when the characters in a ship are still in character.
>>10511
I've seen himes join in on the hate, but those guys are usually underage or TIMs or both

>>10369 I have similar feelings and I totally get you nona, I've seen a lot of antis who are happily into BDSM etc. but get mad over noncon fics and such its so weird. I don't understand what kind of cognitive dissonance they have.

>>10519
Isn't that what caused the rise in traffic light colors and establishing consent every 5 minutes? That stuff ends up coming off as creepier than just respecting your partner's body language and I say this as someone who has written a ton of noncon.

>>10511
Being an anti is getting increasingly passé, the kids who were caping for the anti rhetoric in 2017 are now well into their 20's and either left shipping altogether or realized how stupid they sound. The leftovers are literally 12-year olds parroting 15-year olds rehashing the discourse for tiktok views barely even understanding half of the words.

>>10526
I wish, still plenty of grown ass adults well into their 30s doing this shit. At least pushback to this stuff is the norm in some spaces such as the Ao3 reddit but your average youtube or webtoon comment section is still depressingly bleak. I still have many ships that no one can mention openly without someone immediately going 'BUT AGE GAP'

>>10527
nta but I fully believe anyone who is still doing fandom discourse shit into their 30s will never grow out of it. very bleak

>>10526
No, they're still antis. Antis basically have total cultural victory in fandom, at least on social media. Many of them like to pretend to be mature and into some dark media, which is why cannibalism and "toxic yaoi" are memes for them, but they'll still go after people for shipping incest, or any age gap, or calling random ships "proships". Many of them didn't grow out of it, there's people turning 30 who talk like this now.

>>10527
I made the mistake of reading the comments for Oni to Tengoku and the sheer volume of dumb children commenting there was disconcerting.

>an unpopular opinion
I think its more interesting when a bl relationship has no or very little penetration. It's even more interesting when a distinct 'uke' and 'seme' still manage to exist in that environment.

>>10558
>I think its more interesting when a bl relationship has no or very little penetration.
Based. I also get pissed off when they start doing something else, and it inevitably devolves into penetration.

>>10558
>>10570
>bl relationship that has no penetration
Any examples of this that isn't a doujin? I can only think of one work, but I wish to expand my library.

>>10571
Same anon as 10558.
Ah picrel reminds me of how much I enjoyed that doujin. Will have to reread!

Unfortunately, I have not really encountered 'no penetration' stuff, aside from what you mentioned and an original fic on AO3 that I had in mind when posting. Alas. Guess I better learn to draw so I can just make my own stuff kek

>>10571
I'm the other AYRT. Sadly not many. I went through the document I keep of all the yaoi manga I've read, and I think these are the only ones.
>Usagi no Mori
My Personal Yaoi Review Doc says there was no penetration up to the point where the manga left off, so that's probably a decent pick. It was unfinished at Chapter 14 when I read it, so I don't know if anything has changed since then. I should go see if it's updated.
>Hishakai Shindo
I also wrote there was no dick-in-asshole penetration in this one, and I think it's complete. I think there might've been finger-in-asshole, though. I also wrote that the conflict in one character's backstory was retarded, so I don't know if it's worth reading.
>Chintsubu
It's been years, and I don't remember for sure, but I know one of the two main couples flat-out cannot have penetrative sex. I remember for sure that this is discussed in the manga, but I don't remember about the other main couple. It's a joke manga, though, so you shouldn't read it if you want something serious.

>>10574
Thank you for your extensive notes nonna!

I don't know that your censored note counts, not that I think about it… I suppose I considered penetration to be dick in butt, but idk if fingers or like, a dildo, would count.

>>10571
>bl relationship that has no penetration
NTA but aren't most works like this just categorised under shounen ai these days?

>>10576
Shounen ai isn't even a real category. It's a meme westoid term that refers to pederasty in its native Japanese.

>>10578
Wow I need to stop reply to stuff at work. In a new non typoladdened response I'll add that I still use shonen ai even though I know it's inaccurate because it's the term I've been using for close to 20 years and old habits are hard to break. I guess that counts as an unpopular opinion now. If someone else could make a new sfw term I might switch to it though.

>>10576
I'm one of the anons who was part of the "penetration in BL" conversation, and I'm pretty sure we were all referring to BL where there is sexual content, just specifically not penis-in-asshole sex, if that makes sense? I've only see shonen ai used to refer to SFW BL, and not BL where they still do things outside of that.
>>10575
>I don't know that your censored note counts
Funny you say that. I actually had a big internal debate before posting the list of recommendations about whether anons would count it or not kek. I wouldn't count it either, but I didn't know how others would feel.

>>10581
>I'm pretty sure we were all referring to BL where there is sexual content, just specifically not penis-in-asshole sex
Could not have phrased it better myself. imo, shounen ai as used by western fans refers only to non explicit male/male manga.

> I wouldn't count it either, but I didn't know how others would feel.
AYRT, and yeah. I suppose there's two parts to penetration: the guy being penetrated and the guy doing the penetrating. If one of these parts is missing (ie, someone fucking an onahole, or fingering), I think it falls into a very grey area. I would not count it as penetration but I would understand why some people would.

>>10580
I just call it "sfw BL." It literally takes less characters to type than the erroneous shounen ai anyway.