No.10
>>9i nearly managed to hit a full bingo on your list of tropes that you hate. i'm sure you'll be glad to know that i, too, hate the obligatory relationship crasher with medium-colored hair in series that have five chapters. not sure how i feel about those in series with six chapters, though.
No.11
>>10if the series is six chapters long then they'll always appear in the fourth chapter and the author will shoe-horn in a love triangle
No.12
>feminine ukes
>older semes
>uni/hs settings (can be tolerated at times)
>love triangles
No.20
I dislike forced love triangles to this day, but this doesn't apply just to BL. I hate it when, in canon, the pairing have some kind of rivalry or when they even just shit talk each other in a friendly way (not idea how to say that in English sorry) or are tsundere for each other, yet in most fanfics they're always portrayed as kawaii uwu and there's none of the sexual tension that made the pairing interesting anymore. Usually that happens in fics but not in doujinshi for some reason.
>>3This picture haunts me to this day.
>>9>>the third character in five-chapter long series with mid-toned colored hair who only exists to test the main couple's relationship – usually either a manwhore/fruity makeup boy or a KEET type characterI hate it too, I literally just read two BL manga by Kumiko Suekane and one of them had a thee chapter long story with that guy showing up in the third chapter, then the other manga had a short story that just lasted one chapter and that guy STILL showed up.
No.26
This extends past BL, but I hate consensual non consent in fictional media. What is the point? I want NC because it’s fantasy ffs.
No.54
Too many speech bubbles. Too many darn speech bubbles!! To the point where you're better off reading a fanfiction or slash. Another form that annoys me is one large speech bubble containing a large paragraph, and not as a one time thing.
No.61
>>54i've got nothing against dialogue-heavy series, but a lot of scanlations - especially BL scanlations - are done by inexperienced translators who either misinterpret lines, clearly know neither the source nor target language, or have no idea how normal human beings talk to each other. awful translations really ruin a series for me.
No.168
redrawn dicks can be so ugly
No.170
>>169This has got to be a shitpost
No.171
>>169I feel as if I've been transported to 2008.
No.172
>>169this entire webtoon is nutty to me. it's something i'd love in theory (cute uke, size difference, crazy possessive seme) but the art is awful to the point of parody
No.175
I hate how most kemono (or the so called furry) BL/Yaois have that ugly Bara style with most of the characters being overly muscular to the point it looks redicilous. Don't get me wrong, there are some good looking bara styles, but the ones they mainly choose for kemonos is just dreadfull to me.
Why can't we get some cute kemono BL/Yaoi that has actually aestetically pleasing characters.
No.178
>>9>the third character in five-chapter long series with mid-toned colored hair who only exists to test the main couple's relationship – usually either a manwhore/fruity makeup boy or a KEET type characterI don't have words to describe how much I hate this trope, especially because the uke never has a valid reason to even talk to this guy.
>>20Agreed, I can't get behind love triangles. Usually they're done poorly with zero chemistry. The only valid love triangle is the one in "That summer" (manhwa). It has a love triangle between a girl and two guys, with the plot twist that the two guys used to date. It's really good, even if the premise is off-putting.
>>169This picture made me unreasonably upset.
No.194
>>178>It has a love triangle between a girl and two guys, with the plot twist that the two guys used to dateIt seems like it could be very interesting or complete trash with no in-between so I'm curious. Is the story finished?
No.200
>>194Yes, it has been finished for a while. The narrative POV switches a couple times, so you get to see the guy's backstory and romance. I didn't expect to be so moved by it. You should give it a read if you can. It's standard for a korean manga, but it might be a bit lengthy if you're not used to it.
No.205
>>204ive been laughing at this post all day KEK
No.213
>>211i read a decent amount of korean manhwa, so i've gotten pretty used to lightsaber dicks. i just find them funny at this point. one day someone will get meta about it and have the characters actually do a lightsaber fight.
my pet peeve is actually badly redrawn dicks… if you're going to draw an ugly dick back in, i think i'd rather see a lightsaber dick and fill in the image myself…
No.234
I hate when it's a BL series but literally none of the characters are actually gay. they still like girls (and probably need to assert multiple times how straight they are), it just *happened* that they fell in love with a man
annoying and overdone
No.238
not really "bl" but moreso fujo pandering in general: sports anime. i'm so damn tired of sports anime. maybe something new for us to enjoy, that k anime about the color gangs was great.
why don't anime studios get that all they need to know is give us a good show with fujob8 and no hetero relationships (outside of teasing, that's fine) and we'll be gucci?
No.240
>>238>outside of teasingtruth is for het ships teasing = implied = canon, so…
No.241
honestly it's easier to create a fujobait male-only cast in a sports series, your other option would be an all boys school, idol group or a prison
No.242
>>238Nothing will ever top the Eyeshield 21 manga so there's no point in trying I guess. ##It doesn't really have fujobait but the het ships are never truly confirmed either.##
No.289
i really hate the wholesome bl trend. it's 99% on me for not learning japanese at this point in my life but translators of the modern day do not want to translate anything but the most boring dull "meet cute uwu uguu healthy rep!" stories and it drives me absolutely fucking batty
where are the dramatic plotlines that make me scream! where's the intrigue, the drama, the rape! the incest! the shota! where is all this terrible shit that used to be common as air back in the day. bring that back i'm genuinely sick of stuff like sasaki x mamoru or whatever that given-adjacent crap is called
No.290
>>289While I'm fine with wholesome stuff, I do wish there was more edgy BL anime like Saezuru tori as well. I guess content like that is harder to actually get investors for? I haven't been reading manga in ages, whether it's scanlations or official stuff like futekiya, so lately my edgy fix just comes from BL visual novels.
No.291
>>289Nonny are you me? This is how I feel to a T. I don't have a problem with wholesome content in general but literally ALL that I see now being translated is inoffensive fluff. I want more variation, I want to read dramatic plotlines and not just cutesy slice of life shit. Sometimes I just feel like enjoying more serious stories with ~problematic~ themes.
No.292
>>291This to be honest, and I'm a huge fluff enjoyer. I guess this is why stories from Harada and the like are more enjoyable
No.294
>>289I feel you, nonnie. I'm so desperate I actually picked up japanese last month.
No.296
>>295I hate barafags so much it's unreal
No.297
>>294Any other anons learning Japanese here? If there's enough people maybe we can have a learning thread in /ot/
No.298
>>297i'm trying to, but i've been so busy that i've made no progress. would love to have a thread to discuss it in, though.
No.299
>>297I tried to learn it but there was no one else learning with me so I'll appreciate that thread. I only know the bare minimum, like only one or two hiragana
No.300
>>297i was going to make one, but i realized i don't know what to use for a title image or if there's any resources we want to put in the OP. pain.
No.301
>>300I have some recourses! I'll link here so you can use them. For image maybe some cute BL boys learning something together or a girl learning too.
Here's what I have:
>for hiragana reading practice, simple kid's stories and they're even in romaji toohttps://crunchynihongo.com/hiragana-reading-practice/>the app bunpo, good if you're on the go. Free material is good enoughhttps://apps.apple.com/us/app/bunpo-learn-japanese/id1279720052https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.bunpoapp&hl=en_US&gl=US>download anki, download their basic Japanese materialshttps://apps.ankiweb.net/>this playlist for starters and then the rest of the videos on the channelhttps://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLg9uYxuZf8x_A-vcqqyOFZu06WlhnypWjand after that we can start adding more. hope these help!
No.302
>>300>>301Forgot to mention, you might want to organize them from what to start with first
No.305
>>301>>303thanks for the suggestions! made a thread here.
>>>/ot/365i have given up on finding a proper image and returned to my sad, sad volleyball anime roots.
No.325
I hate romantic triangles and god fucking dammit how I hate those semes who have no personality at all, no friends, no family, a sad boohoo backstory and only wants to stick their dick in the uke yes Hua Cheng i'm looking at you
No.334
>>333I don't mind stoic seme trope but its been too overdone. A soft and sweet seme with a cruel uke is a nice treat so I agree!
No.336
>>333both seme and uke should be incapable of articulating their feelings outside of hot, hate-fueled sex in which one of them gasps out "i love you" or something similar (then they deny it after the sex is done)
No.351
>>9>reversible couples>small tops, and josou semesBless your heart anon, the two things I can't stand. Hate them. Hate them so much. Ruins the story immediately. And in the current year you're supposed to support them because it's ~progressive~ to have reversible couples and small size/effeminate tops. One of my friends absolutely loves small top x big bottom couples and it makes me cringe so hard, especially when she acts like she's better than the rest of us for not adhering to the "rapey, abusive power dynamics" of traditional smaller uke couples.
>the third character in five-chapter long series with mid-toned colored hair who only exists to test the main couple's relationship – usually either a manwhore/fruity makeup boy or a KEET type characterkek this on the other hand is a huge guilty pleasure of mine but it really depends on the situation though. I generally hate love triangles however, they feel like an unnecessary detour that only exists because the writer couldn't come up with a better plot point.
>>234I'm so glad a lot of series have grown past the "b-but we're both men!!!!" trope and it's becoming extinct. It's tiresome and forced drama that shouldn't exist in 2022 when homosexuality should be considered an everyday thing.
No.353
>>325you just described the average mxtx seme who only exists to worship the vaguely gary stu uke… sorry but it's just how it is…
i still liked hua cheng more than wangji, i just wish he had more stuff going on with him than dianxia dianxia dianxia. i think the crumbs we got of his dynamic with he xuan and mu qing were pretty funny
No.354
>>289based
>>336based
My most hated BL trope besides the "B-But we're both guys!" thing is probably perfect semes who make me feel like I'm reading yumejoshi shit. I hate it when semes are some infallible godsend and the uke worships his feet like a little bitch boy. Seriously overdone.
No.416
Something I've run into more than I'd like when reading Japanese BL is this weird interest in highlighting usually the seme's past with women. Like not even just a passing mention "oh he's not a virgin", they'll flesh it out in detail. I don't know how to explain how I feel, it's not NTR but it makes me feel similar to seeing it. Like I'm not reading this shit to hear about the characters past romantic/sexual exploits with other people why is this shit here.
No.419
This is mostly ABO problem.
But man i fucking hate when ABO always shoving "uguuu being omega is hard". Almost every ABO i read is like this.
Okay we fucking get it being omega is hard, i just want to see omega being fucked not to be reminded how shitty omega life is all over my throat countless time.
No.467
>>436I wouldn't have noticed that's Kakyoin if you didn't say it first, I hate that shit too.
No.477
Not related to BL itself, but I dunno where else to put this and I gotta vent a little: I browsed Myreadingmanga and Yaoi haven reborn just now and it reminds me that I hate seeing furry porn on BL websites.
No.512
>>436Or vice-versa: the burlification of characters. Basically, they're turned into smelly, hairy, fat versions - neither muscled or skinny or resembling their original selves. Or as I like to call it privately, Amerification.
No.531
>>436>>512I have to ask what even is the appeal of this, when you physically alter a character from their original form so much that they don't even resemble them anymore, its an OC at that point imo
No.589
>>477>reminds me that I hate seeing furry porn on BL websites.god THIS. I'm willing to accept Bara stuff, but furries doesn't belong on BL sites imo.
No.600
>>594Technically speaking the stuff that gets posted is still dude x dude, but yeah in the end furries have their own websites to post their shit to and I don't want to get on MRM and be exposed to Five nights at freddy's porn.
No.603
>>600does it matter though, they all look the same
No.612
>>353Guess that's why I like SVSSS/Luo so much, he's really not your avarage seme. Wangji at least interacted with other people, Hua Cheng literally only cared about Xie Lian and ONLY talked to him and no one else. TGCF is so overrated it's unreal
No.621
>>2I really dislike bug eyed whiny helpless ukes
No.628
>>436ot but the rightmost outfit is super cute? who's that from. i recognize starfire (first) and daphne (second)
No.629
>>628Poison Ivy from the New Batman Adventures.
No.638
might be an unpopular opinion for some but I hate cuntboys, I don't care how masculine you draw them, if they have a clit they are automatically female alright and for gods sake tag that shit, I wanted to read about tony stark pounding spiderman not an "uwu story" about twans peter parker and how insecure he is about his and body and having PIV sex
No.639
>>638Unpopular opinion only on twitter. Lots of other people hate it but are too afraid to say it out of fear for being labeled. I agree and I want to rip my eyes out when I see it, ESPECIALLY if it's untagged, so you're not alone. It's genuinely disgusting to me and I feel like I need to see a dick to to feel sane again.
No.640
>>639I have seen some anons in the fujothread offended at the idea that cuntboys are actually female
No.641
>>638I make a distinction between cuntboys and tranny shit. I don't mind actual cuntboy art if it's from an artist I already like because I mostly follow competent Japanese artists who just happen to draw that shit from time to time and hide it behind tags and privatter/poipiku. It's way easier to ignore than ignoring tranny art and fics.
No.642
>>640not into that shit personally but seeing posts like
>>641 makes me think it's just people not wanting japanese cuntboy stuff to be categorized as the same thing as western trannies. i can see what they're getting at, as a nip drawing it is probably just doing it as a weird niche 2D fetish like futashit with no trannies in mind.
No.643
>>642It's exactly that, one group just wants horny, the other wants to preach and brainwash you. I don't browse western media like I used to because you cannot avoid tranny ahit in their fandoms. There's too many people to block.
No.644
>>643you put it into words. i don't care about vaginas on dudes so long as it isn't some dumbass aiden living out her yaoi fantasy.
No.645
>>638I agree I hate cuntboy stuff. I'm convinced that it's just people who were told that genderbend stuff is problematic now so you gotta go full trans with it. I liked a few fem!Tony Stark stories back in the day when they weren't weirdo stuff. If you want a female Peter Parker just do female Peter Parker damn.
No.646
>>638Cuntboys physically sicken me, same with futa, mpreg, and giving female boobs to male characters. Let boys look like boys and girls look like girls, fuck twitter.
No.658
>>646This. I really hate any kind of hermaphroditism or ambiguity. Total and immediate turn-off for me.
No.665
>>658>>646>>638y'all are really moralfagging over this, men crate unspeakable fetishes almost daily but god forbid a woman writes about genitals their more familiar with
No.667
>>665Nobody is moralfagging, we simply don't like your fetish
No.674
>>673>>667I'm not into cuntboys either but your acting like its this unspeakable fetish somehow, I mean ""Don't like, don't read""
No.675
>>665All I said was I personally don't like genderfukcery/hermaphroditism in a "shit you hate" thread.
No.677
>>674Did you even read the name of the thread
No.680
>>674It should be an unspeakable fetish, I can't even call it by it's proper name because it's just that disgusting. I say v*geener or some other alter name because it's just that vile. I don't understand how artists can draw that garbage when penises look so much better and nicer. Penises actually make sense while v*jayners just look like some abomination in a low-budget korean horror movie. There is no reason to get turned on by something so yecchy and foul no matter if you're female or male. I genuinely think people have some sort of defect in their brain if they find those things "sexy".
Don't like what I said? Take your own advice and read the thread topic.
No.682
>>680I'm not into it either but I understand where it comes from, they are more comfortable writing/seeing genitals they are more familiar with, like why are you acting like this is on par with some of the more extreme fetishes
No.685
I hate it when they fuck in the first chapter or without building any chemistry (with very few exceptions). I'm a sucker for slow burn, I want the first kiss to feel earned and give me tingles
No.687
>>646>Let boys look like boys and girls look like girls>implying there's any specific way men and women should look this is how you get trannies kek
No.697
>>685But nonna, how will I know if it's really a yaoi manga if they don't whip out their dicks in the first few pages, grab the nearest feminine-looking male, make out with him for 5 pages, start raping everything else that has a 2 inch penis attached to it, then explain how he's the new transfer student?
No.698
>>697omo manga like this?
No.699
>>697Damn that's a good point right there
No.700
>>697>everything else that has a 2 inch penis attached to itWho falls into this category?
No.703
>>702People actually complain about the best thing about BL? That's like complaining about the tomato sauce on pizza…..
No.704
>>703for real. it's crazy.
No.705
>>702Preach. I've never been bothered by BL in which all the men are gay and I actually hate the overused, outdated gay scare "oh no but we're both men" trope more than anything. I understand that for some people it's hard to suspend their disbelief but in some cases it really comes across as annoyingly homophobic to complain about this. I don't read BL to see straight relationships for fuck's sake.
No.706
>>702I haven't seen that many people complaining about this, other than twittertards of course. Rather than annoying I think it's a trope that feels comical most of the time, but then again it's just fiction and we're here to enjoy it so bring in as much gay shit as possible.
No.721
>find good doujins
>they give your favourite boy a micropenis
>close tab
Anyone else do this?
No.722
>>721Kek why would they give someone a micropenis anyway?
No.723
>>721I often rank the characters' dick sizes in series and it sucks that doujins and porn never acknowledge this kind of kinky stuff
No.730
>>723Any doujin without penis size difference is a wasted opportunity its boring when they all have the same dick
No.733
>>721I hate this. No bigger turn off than seeing my favorite character with a micro dick. I had this happen in a fic I was reading too, and I can't understand the appeal. Do people have a kink for this?
No.734
>>733> I had this happen in a fic I was reading toodid they fucking describe it as a micropeen or something?
No.735
What is your ideal dick for the seme?
What is your ideal dick for the uke?
No.736
>>735That entirely depends on the character himself, his looks and personality rather than his sex role. I find it fun to theorize about their sizes.
No.737
>>735>>736I like it when shy/modest characters are huge. I dunno why. I guess it's the contrast of lewd with their personality.
No.738
>>737Yeah that's nice but I also like it when the shy modest characters are just small and they get teased about it or are even humilliated. It's kinda cruel and I love it. I guess I like a healthy balance of tradition and subverted expectations? Same with loud, boastful characters, people like to say they're probably overcompensating for how small and pathetic they are. That logic feels too cringe for me, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.
No.755
>>9>reversible couples>small tops, and josou semes>the shorter one puts "it" in the semeThis. I dont care if im too old school/not progressive enough to like it i just wish people properly tag it. I remember the twitter discourse when western artist refuse to tagging top and bottom in proper order ESPECIALLY in japan dominated site like pixiv
No.756
>>175Its opposite from me, i dont like furry unless its bara
No.758
>>734More or less, yeah. The top saw the bottom's dick for the first time and thought about how it was "really tiny." It was an ABO fic, so I guess it was meant to be an omega thing, but I never had that happen before.
No.759
Tiny dicks are meant to be bullied and laughed at.
No.763
I want even the bottoms to have big dicks, I dont like small dicks on any of my boys
No.765
>>759>>763I like proportional dicks
No.1040
>>770That's because it's made by a man. The ones by wommen are much better.
No.1101
Mpreg, omegaverse/ABO and the like. Defeats the purpose of yaoi imo.
No.1118
>>1117NTA but I've found a lot of ABO stuff really just uses omegas as stand in for women, often while going really overboard on the sexism too. It's kind of disappointing since I like ABO in theory, but I'm more in it for the animal instincts/pack dynamics stuff and content rarely ever actually focuses on that.
No.1119
>>1118Thanks for the answer! I also have these problems with ABO, I'm happy to see there are other nonnas that think like me.
No.1120
>>1117The same anon here.
It's for one of the same reasons trapshit and cuntboys are rightfully maligned on this sight: it's hetshit with a few extra steps. Plus the whole dog-cock and butt baby thing… is just unsettling.
No.1124
>>1120You sound like a gold star gay complaining about breeders and how anything that isn't penis x penis or vagina x vagina is just het with extra steps.
Straight and bi women are going to self insert into BL characters too, breeding kinks included.
No.1125
>>1124Are you really shocked that people reading gay porn want their porn to be about men?
>Straight and bi women are going to self insert into BL characters too, breeding kinks included.THen why not read het kek
No.1126
>>1124And you sound like an ayden who can't read yaoi unless the uke has a vagina
No.1127
>>1120>Male with a penis X male with a smaller penis is het with extra stepsH…..huh?
I get not being into it but HUH???
>>1125Because het involves a man and a woman. Just because some people want to add a fantasy element to their yaoi doesn't mean they want to look at hetshit.
No.1134
>>1127Ignore them. It's just the damn anti-trap schizos who have been shitting up this site for weeks
No.1135
>>1134I see. Don't know why they thought they'd find a home in a place full of fujoshi, who are known to have the most differing tastes in fictional content among weebs.
No.1142
>>1135It's partially because this site was advertised on dramafag sites, so there are some people here who just want to be annoying little shits. Mods have officially come down on the issue recently though, so if you see them being annoying outside of hate threads like this one, report them and move on.
Anyways, to actually be on topic: I absolutely fucking despise when characters are drawn completely differently depending on whether they're topping or bottoming. When it just happens in fanart it's still ignorable at least, but when it happens in official content like NU: carnival so that you can't even avoid it without dropping the fandom altogether, it's annoying as hell.
No.1146
>>1142Like smaller eyes and a stoic expression when they're on top and a cute face making lewd expressions when they bottom?
Reminds me of how tops 90% of the time are always so… poker-faced. Gimme a top who makes lewd faces!
No.1156
>>1155I chalk it up to the art not being too terribly great
t. drawfren who makes the same mistake constantly
No.1157
>>1156Which is understandable, and the art in NU carnival certainly has its issues even besides this, with the anatomy in some of the porn scenes is hilariously bad enough to stop the entire scene from being sexy. But they pretty consistently depict Eiden as twinkier with longer lashes and bigger lips when he's bottoming vs the slightly roguish appearance he has in general story and scenes where he tops. What was even the purpose of giving us an MC with a canon appearance then? Might as well have him be a faceless self-insert mob at that point…
No.1158
>>1157Well… maybe there were supposed to be two protags?
I dunno.
No.1159
>>1157I don’t think the difference is that noticeable and hes hot in both states
No.1160
>>1159Nona compared two bottom pics
>>1155Do you have a top pic for reference?
No.1161
>>1160NTA but I think her files must be fucked, the first scene doesn't match the filename. I also think she accidentally posted one of the very few bottom Eiden scenes where he's actually pretty on model.
That being said, I agree with
>>1159 that it's not too bad. He definitely loses muscle definition and gets a rounder face + wider hips as a bottom, but it's not drastic. Here for your perusal are a top scene, another bottom scene where he's actually on model since you can't see much of him in the top scene, and then a bottom scene where he isn't on model. Judge for yourselves, nonnas.
No.1214
>>1101I have to admit, i dont like abo at first but those mpreg and heat thing slowly got onto me.
>>1118> a lot of ABO stuff really just uses omegas as stand in for womenNot necessarily, seeing pregnant omegas to me is like barafag liking alien/human/whatever breeding n impregnation scene on their comic. Still male but pregnant if you understand what im saying
No.1331
>>2I hate female characters in BL. I don't want to see or be reminded of women. I read it to look at cute boys kissing and being lovey dovey with each other. And women who say you "hate your own gender" for not being attracted to those female characters are retarded. There is no need for female characters in BL at all.
No.1338
>>1331No offense but this "I don't want to be reminded of women" is some severe "nobody but me can have them" yume brainrot. I wish BL had more female characters that weren't just annoying or spiteful plot devices only there to cause retarded love triangle drama because despite being a fujo I still want to see well written women that are a part of the main characters' lives, just not in a romantic or sexual sense. BL mangakas are the rare breed that aren't inclined to write coomer waifus so they actually have a chance to create female characters that have a purpose and a personality.
No.1374
>>1029>trap/femboyshit that appeals to the moid audienceThis on its own makes my blood boil. Can't even look up yaoi anymore without flat futa clogging up my search.
No.1390
>>1380It's even funnier when the gay characters are some neon haired blob covered in pride pins or some other super blatant and ugly design. It's almost insulting sometimes, what happened to having characters who were just gay without trying to be rep? Or dropping hints and letting the fujos go wild with speculation and fics? BL is better representation at this point, at least the characters look normal (for an anime at least) instead of a gender studies art school caricature.
No.1394
>>1380isn't this literally an FTM character? even aydens don't deserve to be drawn like this.
No.1398
>>1380these cartoons are luckily for child-minded adults/teens and not actual children.
No.1528
>>9The hair color ones seem like a very stupid thing to get angry about, honestly.
No.1532
I hate chatfics. They are just the author referencing unfunny memes or trying to be quirky while sprinkling in hints of shipping. I seriously don't get why they are so popular it's literally the lowest form for entertainment I like to go easy on fanfic authors since they do what they do for free but chatfics are so unfunny that they are irredeemable
No.1533
>>1532Agree. While I enjoy epistolary fiction and stories told with unconventional narrative structures I have yet to see a group chat fic that feels in-character and even attempts to have a overarching story.
If anyone has any suggestions I'd love to see one, while I assume most of them are written by tweens, but there must be one or two good ones out there.
No.1534
>>1532Would kill for a feature where you could filter by the age of the author. Even setting it as low as 20 would get rid of 99% of the cancer-tier types of fics that have no consistent tag. I especially hate how chatfics shit up a ship's tag.
Speaking of, I hate everybody who tags a ship when it isn't the main pairing. I liked a somewhat popular ship (Razor/Bennett) in a popular fandom (Genshin) but of the nearly 900 (nine-HUNDRED) fics with the pairing tag there's only like 20 worth reading because the bulk of it is just clowns adding every little thing to their tags because they hate me specifically. The other 880 are just chatfics and shitty modern AUs that might as well be original fiction, with throwaway lines about how they are boyfriends or whatever. I don't even bother looking for any kind of fic there anymore, it's just not worth it.
>>1533>a group chat fic that feels in-character and even attempts to have a overarching storyA lot of Homestuck fics managed to pull this off well enough, but that is the singular example in 20 years of online fandom I can think of.
No.1535
>>1534I do think every ship in a fic is worth tagging just so people who have a NOTP or disdain for pairings can avoid seeing it, even as secondary content. I just wish there was a way to set something as the "main pairing" of a work.
Another system which is probably impossible to implement at this point, but would have been cool is the ability to give each tag a "strength" rating. If you've every been on RYM you can give albums attributes on a scale of 1-3 based on how strongly it applies to an album.
Something like that would be nice on AO3. In a Harry/Draco for instance you could give the main ship tag a rating of 3, but then since Ron/Hermione are in it and mentioned at least once a chapter they could be tagged and given a rating of 1.
IDK, I doubt anything can or will be done at this point. I do see the value in keeping things as well tagged as possible, we just need a way to have a hierarchy of importance for searches.
No.1630
>>1534>age of the authorUnrealistic but I would love it. I've noticed authors in their 40s and upwards, maybe even from late 30s, are usually worth reading. [spoiler] I suppose the older the berry, the sweeter the juice [/spoiler]
No.1632
>>1630A weird thing I have noticed is that if someone started their fanfic "career" by writing Star Trek slash on Livejournal it is usually a good sign that their fanfic is top tier. I'm not even in the Star Trek fandom but lots of good authors has dabbled in it.
No.1639
>>1632Being into Star Trek unlocked so many god tier fanfics. Thanks dad!
>>1630I think mid-to-late 20s is when people who write end up with enough experience and critique to start putting out good stuff.
>>1390>Or dropping hints and letting the fujos go wild with speculation and fics?I honestly prefer this to any canon m/m pairing. Canon m/m is often as bland as canon m/f, at least in most western media.
No.1640
>>1639>I honestly prefer this to any canon m/m pairing. Canon m/m is often as bland as canon m/f, at least in most western media.Romance as a genre sucks. There is little too no exploration of the characters beyond what is bare bones required for the romance to happen and a few minor quirks. Non-canon shipping will always be superior because you get to explore the relationship between characters with actual lives outside of their sex-life.
No.1805
Don't judge me, but the new Don't Hug Me I'm Scared got me back into the series and I figured I'd give the fanfiction a go since the characters have more clearly defined personalities now. I also was hoping to find stories dealing with the world building implications of the final episode.
I haven't been in a recent fandom in years and I forgot just how much I hate it when authors just ignore the canon setting. I'm not just talking high school AUs or stuff like that. I'm talking the characters might as well be talking in a white void since no effort is made to describe the location or add any flair to the work. It's just straight generic romantic dialogue that isn't evwn character specific.
I'm optimistic in a year when the longfics come out I'll have an easier time finding good stories, but the low-effort stuff is killing me. I hate waiting and want quality fics now!
No.1807
I cannot stand it when artists(or fic writers, but it's less egregious when you can't see it) give the uke a tiny baby dick. I'm fine with semes being bigger, even by a lot, but for goodness' sake please give the poor uke at least something to work with! Though this is mostly a fanart problem, to be honest. I don't think I've seen it in a proper BL work in a while.
No.1808
>>1805I'm not into Don't Hug Me I'm Scared but I feel you.
It's so easy to tell when an fic author hasn't even watched the thing they are writing for. They just saw a bunch of pretty fanart and then felt attatched to the (fanon version of) characters. It creates a weird loop where more people start drawing and writing for a show they have never seen and just base them on the fanon interpretation. So the characters just become more and more flanderized for every fic
No.1809
>>1807Same, baby Dickson aren't visually appealing at all. While a size difference is hot you need ot to at least be realistically usable.
I also personally hate hyper cocks and and thing big enough that it looks like it might kill the person it's fucking
No.1810
>>1805Seeing people get back into DHMIS because of the tv show makes me so happy! I've been a diehard fan for so many years now, but I never really liked it in a fujo way.
Who's your favorite character and who do you ship, nonna? Ever since the tv show came out I've been seeing a lot of RG x Duck fanart.
Hope you can find some good fics soon! o7
No.1811
>>1810The Duck is definitely my favorite! I shipped him and the Red Guy back then and the show has only given that more fuel. As a teen I shipped them because they were the two prominent main characters, now they actually have an interesting dynamic so I feel justified lol.
I'm happy everyone is back into it too. There is something comforting about seeing something you used to enjoy get a whole new wave of fans years later. Kind of like seeing an old friend that grew up and changed, but not for the worse. Idk hard feeling to describe.
I think the fanart community is easily winning here, but I'm holding out hope there will at least be a few good longfics exploring the new world we got a peek at.
No.1812
>>1148The economy desperately needs more from the left… where are my realistic traps smh
No.1813
Tbh I hate all the progressive nu-yaoi tropes that everyone praises. I hate LGBTQ identity crap, I prefer Gay For You and no commentary about rainbow politics and no coming out stories. I don't want the line between my fantasy of cute men fucking and IRL homos to be blurred.
No.1823
>>1813I agree, I miss Gay For You and all other problematic shit. I read fic from ancient, dead fandoms for exactly this reason.
No.1824
>>1813Interesting that you say that. One of the things that brought me to yaoi was that I liked taboo romance. I'm Catholic, so it was very much the "sinful" and forbidden nature of the relationship that made it appealing.
I love stories where characters wrestle with internalized homophobia and feel uncomfortable with their sexuality. The scene where a character confesses and "comes out" can be fraught with drama and tension.
While I don't like it when it feels like the author is pushing their identity politics or trying to preach, if your going to take a canonical straight characters and have him fuck a dude I'd prefer there to at least be a little internal conflict.
No.1825
>>1824I wrote this last night before bed and just wanted to tack on that I also just personally hate it when internalized homophobua is neglected in historical works. If your story is set in the 18th century it feels unrealistic not to bring it up.
Best dynamic imo is character A is grappling his emotions, confesses to B his crush, and B assures him that it's alright he feels the same way and the rest of the village and their opinions don't matter because they deserve happiness.
It's definitely my upbringing, but it just takes me out of every story set in the past if something isn't mentioned. When I'm reading modern works it doesn't bother me, but I feel the authors are missing angst and h/c potential by leaving it put of their old works.
Again hate it when it's used to preach, but as a character moment it's satisfying.
No.1960
>>9I hate the reverse dynamics too for the same reason I roll my eyes when I hear otaku wishing to be dominated by some small loli. It's stupid and the dynamic feels fake to me. The fact that there is a slight physical imbalance of power doesn't mean that there must be some huge power gap. Personally, I prefer men with a small gap in which one is slightly bigger and slight stronger and topping and the bottom guy slightly smarter maybe but I don't like a small one topping.
>>755I genuinely believe it didn't take off here because westerners are too stupid to realise that there is a difference between x/y and y/x. I hate it because it's such an easy way to convey who is topping and it makes you able to google your preferred dynamic.
>>289This is why yaoi should be their own category and be separated from lgbt+ romances. Yaoi and fujo/fudanshi pandering series are made by people who are attracted to men and either write hot gay shit with them or at least insert some fanservice. These modern BL series are about representation and healthy self-insertion.
Even when I self-insert I prefer to imagine myself as the hero or villain of a dramatic story, so I cannot even relate to the whole healthy bullshit and all manga like that I read so far were boring as sin. Same is true for most yuri. I miss the old raunchy yuri VNs with drama, intrigues and some dark parts. The last few BL and yuri manga everybody recommended to me were literally both about school kids small talking and being nice to each other. Might as well stalk random boring couples if this was what I desired to see.
No.1962
>>1824>>1825I'm a lesbian who struggled (still do) with her internalized homophobia a lot so I like stories with characters having to come to terms with their homosexuality. It honestly helps me to better accept my own seeing fictional characters go through the same issue I'm having so much trouble with. But it really has to be done with great care and maturity so it doesn't slip into the repetitive "but we're both guys!" taboo fetish territory or an endless circle of "forbidden romance" but rather the character themselves having to accept it, not just them hiding it from everyone to avoid being flogged and ostracized.
No.2040
I hate omegaverse so fucking much you guys. I hate it.
If I get another fic in my rarepair tag and it's fucking omegaverse I'm gonna shit.
No.2041
>>2040I don't like omegaverse either but me, personally, I just shit whenever.
No.2042
>>2040I think the idea of omegaverse can potentially be interesting, but too often it's just PWP with a "heat" as the inciting factor.
Just seems like a lazy way to hook to characters up.
No.2043
>>2042making a male character into essentially a woman, is not something that should ever be considered BL
No.2044
>>2043I'm more interested in the idea of a society divided by dom/sub. Mpreg and heat are too weird for me if the characters are human, but again I find elements of it potentially interesting.
No.2045
>>2044congratulations, your a yume with extra steps
No.2046
>>2045You seem incredibly aggressive for no reason. There is literally an abo/mpreg and yume board on this site, dont understand why you're acting like such a bitch.
Literally all I was saying was I liked elements of the dynamics. No cuntboys or any of that shit.
I enjoy a lot of different styles for ships and one of them is pairings with very clear power dynamics. Especially a strong and powerful seme. Possessiveness is also a bonus, the tough guy who is the school bully or big and physically intimidating but is gentle towards a smaller uke.
A whole society divided that way is interesting. Class divide is a good inciting factor in romance, especially in fantastical settings. Personally I think the best approach is utilizing different races or tribes and having some work as lower-class citizens forced into unsavory conditions. Seme saving lower class uke but in turn demanding a reward is a contrived plot, but still enjoyablein a pulpy way.
You can find and appreciate elements of something without liking the whole package.
No.2047
>>2042To be fair, it's a porn trope first and foremost.The worldbuilding is just a nice little bonus.
No.2048
>>2040I wish people would just go back to the good ol' sex pollen trope if they wanted to make characters mindlessly horny. Omegaverse is so genuinely misogynistic it makes my skin crawl, and it's usually played completely straight. At least the one where the guy was raped and made a single father(mother? idk) addressed how the different classes are treated and didn't make all the omegas useless breeders, but come on.
No.2049
>>2046>I enjoy a lot of different styles for ships and one of them is pairings with very clear power dynamics. Especially a strong and powerful seme. Possessiveness is also a bonus, the tough guy who is the school bully or big and physically intimidating but is gentle towards a smaller uke. so its the worst type of heterosexuality with extra steps
No.2050
To be honest I think the reason omegaverse exists isn't to mimic heterosexuality, but to subject males to misogyny.
On the topic of shit I hate, het sex scenes in yaoi, I was reading a BL manhwa recently and this happened again. If it doesn't affect the story, reader, or prompt any change in a character, edit it out, it's just wasting panels. Christ, if I wanted to read josei smut I wouldn't be reading this genre, would I? Same shit with yuri. I swear to god there's more het sex in yuri than there is actual yuri. I was reading gunjo and the 'lesbian' character had sex with a male taxi driver for no reason. I look up to fujos for their "no fucks given" attitude towards the opposite sex, I just wish himejos did the same, maybe then we'd actually get somewhere with this retarded genre. I can't believe it got greenlit for a movie with Kiko Mizuhara I actually yelled at my screen. On the topic of movies I hate when writers/directors cut off BL film adaptions at the "sad part", which would be the height of suspense within the manga, and never wrap it up with the happy payoff. It's so stupid and such bad writing. Idc about sticking to norms, shit like that is what keeps the genre stagnant and predictable. Go hard with a same sex romance or don't even try it at all. God. No lie things like these are what prompted me to learn to write in the first place. If it doesn't exist, make it exist. DIY mindset.
No.2051
>>2050>To be honest I think the reason omegaverse exists isn't to mimic heterosexuality, but to subject males to misogyny. here's the problem I have with that, the fundamental basis of women's oppression is their ability to give birth, If you give a male character that ability then its simply not a man
No.2052
>>2050>I hate, het sex scenes in yaoiTo add to that, I hate when an otherwise unrelated manga is tagged as "yaoi" when it's just a single scene or a minor side characters. Weeding though otherwise straight doujins to find thr stuff I'm looking for is a pain.
No.2053
>>2050>To be honest I think the reason omegaverse exists isn't to mimic heterosexuality, but to subject males to misogyny. Lol, abo is coomershit come on.
No.2054
>>2053That's the fetish though. If you look at the original omegaverse kinkmeme prompt you can see that there were only alphas and 'bitch males' or whatever, omegas came later. Fics that actually worldbuild and make Omega Opression a feminism analogue are missing the original point. I say this as someone who hates omegaverse anyway.
No.2055
>>2053>coomershit nona are you aware of the site you're posting on?
No.2056
>>2055Nothing wrong with cooming, I'm just seeing there is no deeper meaning to it.
No.2057
>>2054Didn't it start as an RPF thing of the two actors who play brothers on Supernatural? SPN fans are such a menace kek
No.2058
>>2057I wouldn't even mind as much if omegaverse hadn't made its way into Asian fandom, but it did, so now I have to filter it out in pixiv. If I could go back in time and assassinate whoever made that primer…
No.2059
>>2057untrue, it actually started in the Teen Wolf fandom before spreading towards other western fandom spaces
No.2138
>>2136They're both too ugly to be women lol.
Regardless of art quality I've never understood the appeal of undercuts. They don't really look good on anyone 2d or 3d.
No.2139
>>2138They're useful for straight nonas to automatically sort gay men out of the dating pool.
A man with an undercut does not look attractive to females, he looks like shit. Evidently he likes the look, else he wouldn't wear it. So he can meet guys who also likes the undercut, and women don't get their hopes up even for the slightest second.
No.2327
>>2326Do you like both archetypes individually and not just together, or is it just you find both character-types boring?
No.2328
>>2327I like both archetypes individually. It's when they're both together and filling the top/bottom role (masculine top x tsundere bottom) that I find it unappealing.
Admittedly my disdain towards it may have influenced a bit my appreciation towards tsundere and josou semes kek.
No.2329
>>2328Understandable I like top, carefree, upbeat, boy x bottom tsundere, but not if bottom is feminine. I prefer him to be the bratty rich kid. Josou seme is great though so I just I just find most feminine uke cliché rather than the character type.
No.2331
>>2329>but not if bottom is feminine.yeah, to me that's overkill and hardly enjoyable.
I agree that josou is great when done well, or in my case not even necessarily josou, simply an androgynous top topping a conventionally boyish or masculine guy, i like that a lot.
No.2351
Rival (male) love interests. If its a woman I can ignore it because he's gay anyways but if it's a man it makes me feel conflicted. Sometimes if the rival is well written I even end up liking his dynamic with the MC more than the actual love interest which really ruins things. But then the generic, no personality except being an asshole homewrecker character is also bad. So I prefer to just not have any rivals at all. There are other ways to create drama.
No.2401
Putting this reply here because this thread is where it belongs.
>>2395Most simply put it's acting ashamed and making excuses. For example, they take a character who in canon is cool, gruff, quite a bit tsun, and would absolutely be moe if he gave in to some casual drinking and recreational cooking. They take that character, inform us that he gained weight in some alt plot circumstances where he isn't fighting mooks and roughing it, has been podgy for a good while and knows it, and then proceed to make him self conscious, timid, embarrassed, easily flustered, and goddamn paranoid about his weight. Like he's been sporting a belly for months and is still trying to hide himself in public and unprompted starts bleating excuses about food he's buying and fearing how people see him. It's completely out of character and screams "I'm so sorry I'm writing this fetish".
Normal people aren't that worked up with anxiety every minute they're outdoors, and some of the characters they're choosing are the type of tease who'd order food for a group and joke it's all for them with a smirk. Let the character own it if you want it to be sexy. And on that subject: we do not need the narrator to halt the scene to explain that the other guy in the ship is into it or try to argue that it's Good Actually. Assume your audience who opened something tagged weight gain is into that and describe it like its existence is hot. Don't stand there going "btw this is meant to be hot". If a dude is already checking someone out furtively or letting a hand linger we can guess. You don't even need to add that he eyed their body a second or third time just to make absolutely sure you confirmed for us they're into it. We knew what the fic subject was meant to be. Have some figurative balls, girl. Indulge and stop worrying that it's weird.
I'm still really happy to see these tags pop up and for more people to consider it (especially the kind who aren't jumping to hamplanets, y'know?). I just want the itch scratched just right instead of skimming something that feels so generic and uncertain of itself.
No.2405
>>2351Yes goddamn I hate rival settings so much, they're very rarely done well and are usually just a cheap, lazy way to add drama. The rival's only personality trait is just being a Rival Trope and every turn is so predictable and boring. The main couple will sulk for a bit and snap at each other, the rival is being a sleazy shithead telling him that he doesn't need the other one, they almost turn into an item but at the´very last moment they realize how much they love each other and now they're an esteemed couple again and the rival maybe starts dating the forever single side character. Bullshit. Sometimes they work but most of the time they just aren't given enough care and thought and like you said in worst cases the rival is actually way better than the main love interest but you're not supposed to root for him because you know he's going to lose in the end.
No.2406
I hate when the relationship starts with sex and then stumbles into love, with the exception of fuck or die and drunk sex, it feels like authors struggle to justify the initial porn and are afraid the reader will get bored.
No.2410
>>2406same same same. i’d rather read a soap opera-tier miscommunication fic than a fwb-to-lovers fic. i don’t think the idea as a whole is unsalvageable, but the execution makes me wanna kms every time. i guess it just feels kinda pornbrained to me?? idk i’ve just never liked the whole “teehee we’re fucking on the regular but i’m soooo embarrassed to hold hands!!” and they always read like they’re written by teenagers.
fuck or die is always top-tier though. and drunk sex can be fun if, again, if doesn’t sound like it was written by a teenager.
>>2401thanks for taking the time to explain. (i’m the anon who asked.) i definitely see where you’re coming from, and actually see a lot of these issues pop up in so many other kinds of kink-centric fics as well. like the author is constantly second-guessing themselves, or addled by catholic guilt over finding the kink in question hot. i could go on, but you’ve mostly taken the words out of my mouth actually.
No.2415
>>2410>idk i’ve just never liked the whole “teehee we’re fucking on the regular but i’m soooo embarrassed to hold hands!!” and they always read like they’re written by teenagers.Exactly this, you get me nonna! It's weird and people don't act that way in real life. I think there are ways to build a casual hook up relationship into something but I've never seen it done well even in real published yaoi manga. It's just too unrealistic for me to take above scenario seriously.
No.2416
>>2415I always thought in the holding hands trope they were embarrassed to hold hands in public precisely because it was in public? Like, it is something that doesn't happen in real life, but I thought it was an embarrassed to show 'pda' thing?
No.2417
>>2416No, I'm not talking about secret relationships, more stuff like.
2 guys casually fuck no strings attached, but oh no! Guy one suddenly gets the feels and is too afraid to tell guy 2. Blushy skirting around the issue for 10 chapters of gratuitous porn while they pine after each other but are too embarrassed to confess.
No.2422
>>2417Wait they're fucking the whole time? That I can't do, those sex scenes should have weight to them. One fuck at the start then thoughts and feelings fair enough, but you can't have someone too shy to confess and getting flustered at association or hands touching but still fine getting his dick out.
No.2423
>>2415>>2417my sister in arms. you get it!! i’ve never seen anyone else talk about disliking this trope as much as i do, so i’m feeling very seen right now.
>>2422>too shy to confess and getting flustered at association or hands touching but still fine getting his dick out.yeah, i’ve seen so many fics like that and i’m not even being hyperbolic. they’ll fuck like other every chapter but then get flustered from eye contact the morning after. and like, as you said, i think that that sort of thing can kind of work if it’s a one-off; like drunk sex or an otherwise impulsive hookup, which is later followed by an arc of “shit, i think i actually love him.” but if they’re railing each other all the fucking time then it’s ridiculous to have them act like teenaged virgins over a kiss or cuddling or whatever.
imo, the mounting sexual tension is one of the best things about long fics, so i just can’t wrap my head around the appeal of the trope in question. the sexual tension ends up being too resolved, so resolved that it doesn’t exist. and by that point you may as well just read a pwp oneshot.
No.2428
>buying BL legally like a good fujo
>all the top comments using tiktok censorship spellings to talk about how they "want to have s3x with the guys" with various eggplant emojis and nothing about the comic itself
dead dead i dont know what i expected.gif
No.2429
>>2428That's annoying nonna. Which comic was it?
No.2436
>>2428Where do people write such comments?
I honestly ignore every websites that allows emoji, I feel like you never get any good discussions there since people only talk in memes or smileys.
No.2467
Is anyone else sick of yumes and how much they shit up any game fanbase that has both fujo and yume pandering?
No.2468
>>2467Yes. I love the run factory series. When rune factory 5 came out, I became a huge MartinxRyker shipper, and I even posted fanart and stuff. The yumejos in the fandom wanted to skin me alive, I think. If I posted on reddit I would get downvoted a lot. And while it's not like upvotes or downvotes matter, I notice that I would get downvoted exponentially more on BL or gay art images. In runefactory 4 I liked a straight ship, and I noticed no one gave me half as much shit for that straight ship.
All this sperging to say I can relate I guess, kek.
No.2469
>>2467Personally I'm sick of heterosexual yumes everywhere. Months ago I rambled a bit on the fic thread about yume fics clogging character tags. Sperg alert, lately I've been invested in a rather small fandom, and somehow it's so fucking full of yumes. Close to no fujos on the western side, the only freaks with good taste are a couple of asian artists there and there. It's depressing. I can't find my people out there. Just fucking bland vanilla male/female "uwuuu I can fix this psycho killer character with the power of heterosexual love btw don't call me straight cuz i'm sOoOo queer too hehehe" bullshit. Ewgh.
No.2470
>>2469xReader is one of the first things I filter for on Ao3 since they do clog the search for modern fandoms and can be frustrating. I don't hate Yume though since they tend to put out nice solo character art.
No.2471
>>2467Yes. Holy shit they're so annoying, I could write a scientific essay about them to be referenced in studies about yume mental illness. Yes, I get that they're personally offended that fujos create like 90% of all the male content in the fandom because it ruins their self insert fantasy but either git gud or stop complaining. My ladies out there acting like an oppressed minority for being straight and unapologetically homophobic when all they need to do is go outside for a bit and see how heteronormative everything in this world actually is. Imagine being so entitled that a relatively niche group of women enjoying their little gay ships and dropping a "(your husbando) is gay" comment makes you chimp out. Imagine thinking you're better than these women producing endless amounts of creative work for other fans to enjoy when you spend your days doodling your Mary Sue making out with your husbando of the month. Imagine thinking that fujos are the porn addicted coombrains when you're openly talking about wanting to be tortured and choked on your husbando's cock. Imagine accusing fujos of being misogynistic and hating women when literally the only reason you tolerate female characters in your anime is because you use them as stand-ins for yourself to project into in order to get in bed with your husbando.
I'm this angry because my main fandom is one that attracts both fujos and yumes and it's always a shitshow of ridiculous proportions. Yumes keep playing the victim game and always try to paint themselves as the poor little souls suffering at the hands of evil oppressive fujos and alphabet folks who bully them for being straight right after dropping hot takes like "99% of the planet is heterosexual so my self insert crack ship is more canon than any gay ship you guys have", in some cases they start drawing gay ships with the bottom being genderbent given big tits and spam the tags with their art with no genderbend tag attached. They complain about fujos rejoicing canon interactions two male characters yet if their self insert talks to their husbando once it's true love and meant to be through thick and thin because only the love between a man and a woman is "real love".
No.2472
>>2471continuing because my spergery exceeded the character limit
>>2469>Just fucking bland vanilla male/female "uwuuu I can fix this psycho killer character with the power of heterosexual love btw don't call me straight cuz i'm sOoOo queer too hehehe" bullshit.My fandom's biggest yume favorite is the psycho killer trope too and his yumes get off to the thought of him wrecking their shit and obsessing over them. I will not listen to any accusations of fujos creating problematic content when half of the yumeshit I see is about wanting to be abused. The """queer""" card is so grating too, they love the pull the "but I'm __sexual!" to be excused after practically profiling gay people as subhuman and cry about "bisexual erasure" under any half joking tweet that calls a character gay.
And even outside of strictly fandoms they tend to be insufferable. I can't count the amount of times I've seen some artist drawing/writing self-indulgent m/f content throwing a temper tantrum because their creations aren't as popular as "gay content" and how this is somehow a problem that must be issued and fixed by those preferring "gay content" being forced into preferring what they do. Fuck I'm sorry but there's so much bland ass straight shit around you have to deal with the pool of competition being a lot bigger than our cozy fujo puddle, of course your mediocrity won't be as celebrated as someone who's just a lot more talented than you are.
No.2473
>>2471This was a main reason for why I got tired by an earlier fandom of mine. It was always the self-inserters that lost their shit, blocked and badmouthed others for shipping and made long ass textwalls on tumblr to explain why a fucking canon pairing wasn't canon because it's a guy being paired with either another guy or a woman that isn't the bland MC they self-insert into. Too much fucking drama, too much hate and probably the most intolerant, toxic group of people I met. The types of people that force you to sit still and stop breathing to avoid being accused of bullshit.
The newer fandom I am in is rather chill, but the more time passes the more fans it gets straightwash and uwu-fy everybody by changing fucking genders and personality even if both characters are murderous shizo knights. Now they have excuses by calling their self-inserting trans or progressive, so you cannot even force them to post it into the OC/AU channel.
I already draw things myself to produce more of the content I like, but being in fandoms for so long makes me miss the times when fujo fandoms were fun and actually fujo.
I am also most likely imagining this but I feel like fanart got so much worse in the last 5-7 years it's unreal. Or maybe it's real and simply due to the people that are online now that weren't online before or people got tumblrfied and can't draw anything but worse calarts, I have no idea.
No.2474
>>2467there was a discussion about yume psychology that got nuked after the site went down. in that thread i said it once and i'll say it again: i suspect the reason why on average yumejos are so easily triggered and generally salty is because the inherent nature of selfshipping requires a baseline level of delusional thinking. writing yourself into your husbando's canon, whether via direct self-insert or an oc, and keeping up the fantasy of being in a relationship doesn't just require you to tweak all sorts of canon (disregarding canon partners or competing ships, woobifying your husbando into a compatible partner, etc.). it's a blatant personalized wish fulfillment fantasy with an intended audience of one. other fans don't have a reason to care about your donut steel oc. this is why yumejos get so triggered when they see things that break the immersion of of their fantasy: other yumes with the same husbando, their husbando's canon partner or other ships, fujos pairing their husbando with a character they can't project onto. it's not just a matter of "i don't like this ship" or "i don't like your interpretation of this character". anything that breaks their illusion is on the same level as a personal attack because their identity is inextricable from their fantasy.
this is not to say that husbandofagging is inherently dysfunctional = i myself participate in it from time to time, and i believe that many fujos are inclined to it in varying degrees because fujos are not a homogenous bunch. i think it's a natural reaction when you have a favorite character that you become attracted to. however, the crucial difference is that healthy husbandofagging means having self-awareness and detachment from fiction, while deranged yumes become deeply invested into their personal fantasy.
the current fandom climate, where it's encouraged to wear your mental illnesses like a badge and everything under the sun is justified under the pretense of therapy, enabled the worst habits of yumejos. that's how terms like "comfort character" are born. making mary sue ocs to self-insert used to be something you did as a tween that you eventually grew out of, but now grown ass adults who draw for a living are unabashedly flaunting them. the normalization of parasociality in the last 5-10 years was the nail in the coffin.
No.2477
>>2474>the inherent nature of selfshipping requires a baseline level of delusional thinking.If the image uploading worked I'd post a screenshot of the post I saw while scrolling LCF a few days back, an anon venting about being so obsessed with her fictional game character husbando that she wanted to break up with her IRL boyfriend (that she even described as "incredible") just to devote her life to her fictional Nigel she interacts with using AI. It's pathetic and sad, and as you said behavior like this has been normalized at an increasing rate since the pandemic when everyone was stuck inside with no human contact. There was a time when selfshippers were the laughing stock of the internet but now it's being fed upon, so many things are designed around being "(you) x character" because it's easier to create generic wish fulfillment than writing relationships between established characters. I get how it's tempting, but at least create your own make-believe spouse.
>it's not just a matter of "i don't like this ship" or "i don't like your interpretation of this character". anything that breaks their illusion is on the same level as a personal attack because their identity is inextricable from their fantasy. I've had yumes venting at me being very honest about how they hate fujos for being "misogynistic" simply because they ignore her Mary Sue (or "transphobic" in the case of FTM Mary Sues) and pair her husbando with some "faggot homewrecker", and when they're not being this direct about it but trying to mask it, the message is loud and clear between the lines. Usually when they don't get to be anonymous (like on LCF) they try to paint the same sex relationship and its shippers as "problematic" in some way, any way, to avoid having to admit their unhinged parasocial obsession. Usually something to do with pedophilia and/or incest. It's sad to see the younger fujos who don't see through their tricks yet panic about this, and also because now nobody takes pedo accusations seriously anymore.
No.2478
>>2477>Usually something to do with pedophilia and/or incest.Interesting that you mention this because I see so many pairing being dismissed for being "incestuous" where the characters are literally not related to each other but they are friends, comrades or enemies that know each other for a long time so it's """brothers""" to these people. What the hell
This also tells you how they must view marriages and good matches. A good partner is someone with no similarity to you I guess, like the many boomers that don't even talk to each other or watch movies together because they share zero common interests and traits.
No.2479
>>2478ntayrt but this is why i hate the found family trope so fucking much (or at least modern fandom’s bastardization of it). not only does it simplify complex character dynamics by trying to box them into the roles of dad, mom, sister, etc, it also gives yumes and antis an excuse to cry incest over characters who are literally not related. and the “they’re sworn brothers!1!” thing gives me a headache too (and flashbacks to quarantine-era genshintwt).
my personal most-hated variant of this is when an older man interacts with the younger mc for 0.7 seconds and everyone immediately jumps to “oh that’s his dad!1! so much dad energy here haha,” even when there’s only like a 10 year age gap between the characters. and this then, of course, fuels discourse over incest. because everything somehow leads to incest for puriteens.
No.2480
>>2477>accused of being misogynistic for ignoring mary sues or transphobic for ignoring mary-to-gary stusReal, they treat their OCs as magical healing vaginas that can fix their husbandos lol
No.2481
I got a feeling this recent discussion should be in the vent thread instead of the BL stuff we hate but
>>2479>genshin fangirls when they walk into danmei and everything is age gap shizunfucking, sworn brothers, and detectives who really shouldn't put their dick in there however-How could the legally dubious manfuck fantasy/sf do this to me?!?!?! Protip: if TGCF is their only fav novel and proudly displayed through a starember pfp they're probably an anti wearing convenient "Honghong-er totally never fell in love with the prince as a child what are you talking about" goggles. The amount of selective memory and mental gymnastics some of these kids do over the tiniest shit.
As a SVSSS fan the one I'm tired of is that two sentence review they all parrot like clockwork. I first heard it in 2019 and I heard it again as recently as last year, and they continue to be oblivious to how transparent it is. It goes "I didn't like it. The main couple were too toxic/abusive." Most of them will point their finger at Binghe for being too scary and dangerous for romance oh no. Then they point at Shen Yuan and complain he is not a gay man and willingly groomed a child with his homophobia (no I don't know how that works). It's not a gay romance novel guys. This whole fanbase is a sham! The Scum Villain fans are trying to dupe you with their problematic ships! (except Moshang which for some reason they will happily read the extras for then participate in collecting fanart?? 90% of their fics have painful monsterboy/mafia sex and end on "I don't think he likes me"??? Even without reading the main story they should get there's some smacking the little guy and making him piss himself with fear. Antis make sense challenge any%)
It's remarkable how samey it is every time. Regurgitated like they all got together and agreed on a take based on one individual among them only reading up to slightly post-abyss and never learning how narrative conflicts work. If they said they were frustrated with the protagonist for not being honest and making things worse all the time then I'd believe they'd read it and didn't enjoy the ploy (plenty of villainess isekai work on the same type of hook and it does get grating), but it's always this same genre misunderstanding. Like they approached it knowing there's student/teacher and were looking for something to complain about. I've had people try to explain the plot of the novel to me to show how bad it is and be so far off I don't know what happened, and it's like that every time, I've never met someone who disliked it but knew what it was about.
This is the power of novels I guess. Reading without pictures is too hard for em. Gotta have chibis to tell you how they feel or it's completely indecipherable!
No.2482
>>2477>an anon venting about being so obsessed with her fictional game character husbando that she wanted to break up with her IRL boyfriend (that she even described as "incredible") just to devote her life to her fictional Nigel she interacts with using AIkek, is this the "how to be completely devoted to your husbando" thread? a lot of the posters there give lowkey schizo vibes and there's a strange pseudo-religious undercurrent in the way many talk about their husbandos. but religious worship isn't anything new for selfshipping - the snapewives were the og delusional yumes. i don't even think its a matter of wish fulfillment being easier to produce than writing relationships between fictional entities, it's that those yumes gave up on human relationships. im all for disengaging with 3dpd moids but retreating into a fantasy world and getting mad when other people don't want to follow your made-up rules isn't liberating, its just immaturity.
>It's sad to see the younger fujos who don't see through their tricks yet panic about thisthe politicization of shipping and the compulsion to make every act of shipping a moral statement is the worst cancer to grace fandom culture, besides the gendie stuff. yumes will moralfag at the big bad fujos for being coom-brained and supporting "problematic" ships and then turn around and write the most degenerate, porn-rotted fantasies.
No.2485
>>2481>I got a feeling this recent discussion should be in the vent thread instead of the BL stuff we hate butYou're right kek, it's because we can't create threads now that everything is sort of topsy turvy. We used to have a hetshipper/yume cringe thread before the backup fiasco but now it's gone I think. People have a lot of pent up frustration they want to let out so I guess it's fine for the time being.
>>2479And it happens with f/f ships too, like "oh they're like sisters!" if they're good friends or "oh they're like a mom and a daughter!" when they have like a 3 year age gap. And it never happens with m/f ships, ever. Funny you should mention Genshin because this shit happens in the Genshin fandom all the time, hetfags try to incest-ify every same sex ship in the game in an attempt to erase them completely. Two characters behaving like lovers or having a very intense, caring relationship but they're both male? Oh yes, brothers for sure. Stop sexualizing their relationship you incest loving degenerates! Yet Thoma acting like an adopted big brother to Ayaka looking after her means they're practically boyfriend and girlfriend with no siscon undertones at all.
>>2482I can't remember which thread it was because I was just scrolling down newest replies and stopped when I saw that but it might've been. I've checked that thread out a once or twice out of curiosity and it's like staring into the abyss of madness, I wonder how much of it is a larp and what part is deadass serious because the general mood in that thread, as you said, even crosses over to nearly religious territories. The women posting there are so out of it and it's no wonder they roam the site hating on fujos when they take their parasocial relationship this far and personally.
No.2489
i totally loathe how the idea of “enemies to lovers” has been diluted so much that it now means nothing. it started out referring to like, mortal enemies, the main villain and main hero, bitter political rivals, wanting to kill each other, etc. and then, at some point, bullying got included under this umbrella (i blame bnha for this becoming as big as it did). and now, “enemies to lovers” is something you see on booktok covers and basically means “the love interest and the protagonist disagree and argue sometimes.”
i used to like the trope myself, but i liked it when it had actual intensity.
No.2490
>>2482>a strange pseudo-religious undercurrent in the way many talk about their husbandosLast night I backspaced a rant I typed up about what it's like in waifu communities if you get caught being chill about ships, but now I gotta say something: waifuism is a pseudo-religious cult, don't be surprised by anything when the pony fuckers are out there claiming to make "tulpas" and the inquisition is watching to catch out any "fake" waifuists.
>>2489I feel like I hate the mundane setting for it most, and when they use the term in a mundane setting it's like a guarantee there's no interesting reason for their conflict. Unless it kicks in the door yelling YAKUZA or some shit it's going to be bland as fuck bickering instead of grabbing each other by the collar and throwing each other around. I'm glad Asia is still prepared to fuck about with police detective characters, as I'm sure YA fiction in the west wouldn't dare use its imagination to disregard real world issues for hot man in suit full of barely held in hostility.
No.2491
Idk if this bothers anyone else, but I hate dudes (both 2D and 3D) that have much longer thighs than shins. It looks so weird on men. The shins should be a little longer than the thighs, or of equal length. I've tried looking up why it bothers me so much before, and I think it's because it usually makes the thighs look bigger which makes the men look more feminine, which I hate.
No.2492
>>2490>waifuism is a pseudo-religious cultit truly is. if you follow the waifuism thread on the kf there was one nutjob in particular who tried to make his own religion out of waifuism, complete with tl;dr thesis. i wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't the first. you might think, how the hell does a cringe wish fulfillment hobby turn into a new age religion? i blame it on the current fandom climate that unabashedly coddles immature behaviors and an accelerating sense of disconnect in the digital age. that, and some good ol' autism.
>>2485once thread creation is back up, i'd be down to have a yume cringe thread. besides retarded yume takes, yumes in general are a cowish bunch.
No.2494
>>2491Can't relate. Skinny legs are a turnoff to me, buff thighs are best. (I didn't even know calves can be longer than thighs in the first place?)
No.2495
>>2494Longer thighs is pretty rare compared to shins, but I have seen it in real life. There used to be a guy I worked with who looked like that (I noticed because he would put his office chair low to the ground, but his legs would stick out from the chair farther. It's because his thighs would long but his shins would cause his feet to dangle if the chair was on the tallest setting. It's really weird I remember that so vividly, kek).
No.2496
I hate it when a male character is shirtless or naked and there's no nipples. It looks uncanny valley. Doesn't just apply to BL, I liked watching Free back when season 1 was ongoing but it was weird seeing all the guys in swimsuits with nipples.
No.2497
>>2496I'm under the impression male nipple is taboo in family oriented shows? Might be misrembembering but I think some rating boards treat it similarly to cleavage on women.
I personally only care if the rest of the top less anatomy is detailed. For instance Free has a lot of detail on the abs and pectorals so it looks wonky. A random top less boy who is basically featureless doesn't matter.
No.2500
I hate hetbending so god damn much, I'm fed up with seeing boobs and vaginas everytime I look for BOYS Love fanart.
No.2501
>>2500Just explicit stuff or any genderbend art? I personally don't mind one or two images in a massive pixiv log, but I get pissed everytime I look up doujins for a niche series and of the 5 the show has they're 18+ genderbends.
No.2502
>>2501SFW genderbending is fine with me if the designs aren't overly sexualized.
I hate when the original male design has a practical and fully covering outfit but the genderbent version looks like she's from a trashy fanservice anime. I know it's silly but I think it's kinda exhausting to not be able to escape sexualized female designs even when I'm looking for BL art. Could I mute the genderbend tag on pixiv? Yeah sure but I don't want to get rid off all the logs that just has a couple SFW genderbend images in it.
No.2503
>>2502The amount of times you're scrolling through BL and then there's your husbando genderbent in a cow bikini or some shit… sigh. I hate this shit too. 99% of the time if you take a guy's canon outfit and just make him female he'll look extremely hot, but I'm a bit weak for butch women lol.
No.2504
>>2503Not that Nonna, but I agree, I'm fine with it if the character design is cute, I'm even ok with some cleavage or suggestiveness by I HATE it when it's basically hentai. You guys already have a ton of work of the female characters to choose from stop polluting the tag! Doubly so if it's a western artist with cartoonish proportions.
I'm just glad more male-focused artists exist now as opposed to years ago
No.2507
When artists randomly make a character a different race, presumably for diversity points. This is mostly a western artist problem, fortunately.
No.2509
>>2508At the end of the day it's an AU so I can deal with it if it's not just a lazy skin-swap and they actually redesign things like magic/costumes to fit.
Turning characters obese is what gets me and is the worst of western art. Though JP is also likely to turn characters Bara so I guess two sides of the same issue.
No.2510
>>2508this is rampant in a few of my fandoms and it drives me nuts, mainly because it’s pure virtue signaling imo. i’d have no problem if the art choice was close to their canon skin tone, none whatsoever! but i hate people doing it just to show what a good and honest activist they are, or because they think the showrunners or whatever “got it wrong.”
>>2509oh my god, the obesity. what’s up with that?? character is shown eating one burger in canon, cue fanart depicting character as deathfat. i don’t get it.
No.2511
>>2508Sometimes the character doesn't even have a canon tan but they get made 3 shades darker for no reason . When someone does this to their fave, it's basically a red flag that they're either a wanker or hard-projecting onto them in some way. Chances are there'll be trans or other headcanons involved.
No.2512
>>2507There's a trend in the western fandom(mainly on Tumblr) whenever there's a BL ship between a light-haired character and a brunette, to make the dark-haired character very hairy and buff/fat and taller while the blonde one is drawn super skinny and feminine, despite having the exact same body types in canon. And the dark skinned one is almost always the top. Do they seriously think this is 'good representation'?
No.2513
I hate when a publishing company doesn't publish all the volumes of a series and it's in reference of Crimson Spell and Oni to Tengoku in France. I just learned that Oni to Tengoku is still being published and the new chapters are made for a 4th volume but we only have the first two volumes here and when I contacted the company to ask if they plan to release the third volumes months ago I got ignored. Fuck them.
No.2514
>>2513>Crimson SpellGod I remember reading this on LJ back in 2005 and it only just ended in 2021? I was always jealous that France got physical, explicit, actual BL way before the US did. For the longest time we only had like FAKE and Ghost! (localized as Eerie Queerie!, lol).
>>2507I like it when it's done for funsies instead of "ummmm i fixed the design sweatie :)))".
No.2515
>>2514>I was always jealous that France got physicalExcept for the last volume kek. The series is considered cancelled or discontinued right now, not sure which word is the most fitting here.
No.2516
>>2485>>2485Genshin yumes are the biggest psychos who use buzzwords like "biphobia" at anyone who doesn't ship a m/f ship. Their m/f ships are every bit as fanon as the m/m and f/f ships they complain about, but because it's m/f they get to bully others. Yumes are shit and fujos get more bad press despite yumes being the most toxic group.
No.2517
>>2509>Though JP is also likely to turn characters Bara so I guess two sides of the same issue.lol at least the characters they choose make sense. the majority of bara art is made by gay moids for gay moids so they tend to latch on macho characters. western artists don't discriminate, everyone gets a chance to become obese!
>2512love it how sjw artists end up reinforcing racist stereotypes despite preaching the opposite. its like how every dark-skinned character has to be buff/fat or have the most unappealing facial features. its like they're trying to say all black people or fat or people with ethnic features can't have conventionally pretty faces. also according to western sjw artists all asians have the same exact face - the narrowest, most upturned ching chong looking eyes and a yellow pallor. you'd think they'd never met asians irl and they only had ww2 propaganda as reference.
No.2518
>>2516>Genshin yumes are the biggest psychos who use buzzwords like "biphobia" at anyone who doesn't ship a m/f ship.this makes me seethe. I'm bi and if a relationship is about a male with a female then it is a fucking straight heterosexual relationship. Only retards care about biphobia in shipping jesus fucking christ I hate het yumes so much being so fucking insecure in being seen for what they are (heterosexual girls inserting themselves in queer shit)
No.2519
>>2507Reminder that Nicolas D Wolfwood was designed after this Japanese musician and none of his ancestors in the past century have been to Mexico. (Dadbod WW hot tho)
>>2513>volumes 12 and 13 of Yami no Matsuei will never have an English release>fan translators have not scanned or translated the extra pages or dialogue changes from vol 13It's nothing compared to the state of things JP side but it's the thought that counts.
No.2569
The yumes are why I wish fujochan was more active, the entire joseimuke thread on /vmg/ is full of yumes saying "Lumine kisses all the boys in Genshin ♥" or raging about fujo fanservice in games like Enstars because the boys should only be for them.
I wish there could even be a story based joseimuke type of game without a self-insert MC just to get rid of these types. There's nothing wrong with full on BL games being mostly about the porn, but I wish we could have a story based type of joseimuke game that has plenty of shipbait with characters and no self-insert MC. It unfortunately will never happen since people think BL is only just for the porn and not romance, and romance is just for otomeshit and so most games will have to pander to both yumes and fujos, but the yumes are so loud and obnoxious and they don't get nearly as much shit for their attitudes as fujos get daily.
No.2572
>>2569I feel like I missed understanding how big the yume swarm is because until fc I've never hung out anywhere that was girl-dominated where I couldn't just filter by my ship tags. I think my first brush with yumejo domination was when I went looking for Childe/Traveler and 99% of it was Lumine. It was very annoying, so despite my inexperience I can empathize with you.
>>2515>sure which word is the most fitting here.It's called getting Ayano Yamane'd. She does whatever she wants whenever she wants. In 2040 she will surprise you with a new Crimson Spell chapter.
No.2574
>>2569I feel you on the not necessarily porn bit. All routes must lead to a sex scene feels so reductive on the types of relationship a character might have during the course of a story, but if they leave one out people'd get pissy that he wasn't given as much content as the others.
There's some moba/browser games where the player has no set gender or identity and it's easy to ship the boys together, but they're usually light on story, or rather, they're shit on gameplay. I've been playing Tourabu for years and always thought it was a free space to ship swords together and the extended media does aid that, but whenever I rely on fan translations I get reminded that the people translating are determined to call the player character a "she" right up until he speaks out loud in a manly voice.
>>2572Kind of same. I think I've opened threads on /jp/, /vg/, etc. and seen them posting boys I'm not interested in from games I don't care for and just left before even noticing they're yumejo specifically, but now I've heard about it on fc I've looked again and noticed oh right they're a whole different kind of fan.
Maybe it's memory bias because I was always seeking fujo content as a teen, but I feel like yumejo weren't welcome on image boards in the past and fujo got a free pass by memeing around their interests. People have always taken the piss out of women who fantasise about celebrities, it's "girly", so it gets ridiculed as silly and delusional squawking. Now the same ridicule is pointed at fujoshi while the yumejo stake their claim and get catty with anyone who questions them. Putting my tinfoil hat on, this shit coincides with an overall change in internet culture. We've gone from tongue-in-cheek appreciation of how deviant and hard to comprehend communities were to outsiders, to a great deal of conservative morality policing in the same sites. Women liking het and self inserts are no longer shameful but fulfilling appropriate societal bleh bleh bleh bleh bleh. The more I type this the worse it sounds, but you get what I mean. What people get away with being loud about has been flipped on its head these days.
No.2577
>>2574>I feel you on the not necessarily porn bit. All routes must lead to a sex scene feels so reductive on the types of relationship a character might have during the course of a story, but if they leave one out people'd get pissy that he wasn't given as much content as the others.This is exactly how I feel about the Fujieda route in slow damage. I won't go into it to much for spoiler purposes but basically the first sex scene felt so forced and I really didn't need it. I know people would be mad if Fujieda only had one final sex scene though.
No.2581
>>2569>I wish there could even be a story based joseimuke type of game without a self-insert MC just to get rid of these types.This is literally genuinely impossible from a marketing standpoint and even if there was no MC at all, people would still create one specially women that can't possibly enjoy something if they aren't self inserting. Unfortunately, a game WILL end up pandering to a demographic no matter what, that's how the market works. You could make an "innocent" game, maybe the equivalent of cookie run with little boy cookies but with a bog standard cutesy plot "nothing bad ever happens ever" and I can guarantee you that the market will be full on shotacons even if you weren't /intending/ your game to be so. You could make even an OTOME game, and there would still be fujos into it (lolutapri).
If there's no MC insert, then there has to be an stablished character. If that character has a gender at all, it'll be otome/BL. EVEN if the MC was implied to be a fucking DOG, people would still make it into a dogggirl or dogboy. It's impossible to avoid pandering.
No.2583
>>2569When fujochan was down and I had to share a space with the batshit Lolcow yumes I felt like I was going insane. I swore once this place went back up I'd be more active just posting whatever to keep it alive and so far I've kept my promise.
>>2516Agree, Genshin yumes are truly the bottom scrapings of lunacy. I don't know what it is about them that makes them so overtly aggressive and unhinged but I feel like Childe attracted the worst type that's into sadistic yandere boyfriends who behave like overly obsessive BPD-chans themselves. They're the kind that starts writing death threats to Mihoyo employees if their husbando ever talks to a female character or gets any fujopandering.
As for games without sex scenes, I feel there are plenty of romantic BL VNs without graphic sex but they don't get translated since the publishers localizing them still associate BL = yaoi = sex and deduce that nobody will buy them if it's not explicit porn.
>>2581Most BL VNs don't have a (you) type self insert MC. Just the established protagonist for who you choose the romantic route they will take.
No.2590
Pet names/ terms of endearment in fanfiction. It's not always a bad thing but in the majority of the instances where i've encountered it, it came across as extremely corny and embarrassing to read. The worst offender is when it's completely out of character for said character to say things like that. They would not call each other Baby, Honey or Dear every other damn paragraph. I'm so sick of this bs i apologize if it's been discussed before in this thread or in another but i had to let this out.
No.2593
>>2590I hate it too. Especially when the characters speak more than one language and the writers use equivalents in the other language and make the characters say weird, corny pet names in Spanish or French or something else.
No.2594
>>2593God the amount of 'baobei' in cnovel fic.
No.2595
>>2593oh my god yes I cant stand this shit. Gratuituously inserting another language is just tacky and I'm esl. Especially when the author apologizes for any possible mistakes - if you dont speak a language, why tf do you need to put it in?
No.2597
>>2593Kek, I admit I'm guilty of this. I always right 'gege' and 'onii-chan' for older brother. And older brother types are my fave so I definitely do it a lot.
No.2598
>>2597I like these as long as it's something the character actually says, unlike noncanon pet names/address. What bugs me is when the author can't keep track of who calls who what in canon, so you randomly get nii-san changed into nii-sama or -kun randomly inserted when they don't use any honourific for that character. People are especially bad at remembering when someone calls another person by their family name instead of first name, but sometimes localizations and dubs are to blame here.
No.2604
>>2572Yume shit dominates whenever any game has a custom protagonist or one where you can pick the gender. The yumes will argue that Childe and the traveler is canon, but ONLY with Lumine. They'll pick minor differences in facial expressions to prove it. Yumes are insane because they argue their headcanons are canon while calling the fujos delusional, but you can tell they have issues because they chimp out at anyone shipping their husband with another man. Self insert protagonists are such a plague on modern gaming.
No.2605
>>2583>I feel like Childe attracted the worst type that's into sadistic yandere boyfriends who behave like overly obsessive BPD-chans themselves. They're the kind that starts writing death threats to Mihoyo employees if their husbando ever talks to a female character or gets any fujopandering. Genshin becoming so big and Childe being perfect for this niche ruined him. He's not the only one with batshit yumes, Xiao had it bad when he first came out, and Scaramouche has some obsessed fans, but Childe is the one character where I see yume pandering is affecting the writing. He can't even be friendly to a character who isn't a little kid or the traveler anymore after all the seething over him being friendly to Yoimiya. And that wasn't even romantic.
No.2606
>>2569I also had no idea yumeshit was a big thing for the longest time. They were so easy for me to ignore that my only notable experience with them prior to lolcow.farm's spontaneous yume surge during the pandemic were reading about lolcows like chris, nemu, and that sonic diaperfag as well as making fun of those hilarious old 1D imagines. I didn't know there was a name for them until a couple years ago (not due to underage either-I'm 24 and have been in fandom spaces since I was 11). Then a game I play's western community unfortunately amassed a large population of them…
As a former tunglrhead I've always had a very "support all nerdy women!!1!" outlook on this kind of thing, but after interacting with them for a while I had to give that up kek. Not even getting into their iconic hostility and weirdness, the extreme mischaracterization they do, mostly to justify why these characters would ever in a million years want to fuck them, and the low quality high quantity content creation you'd expect of autistics shoehorning their self inserts into preexisting fictional universes alone are enough to push me far the fuck away. They boil the characters down to a few personality traits they like and posess very little overall knowledge on the source material. In my opinion all those accusations of shallowness/horniness they throw at fujos are pure projection. Never met a single one who could hold a conversation without delving into annoying sperging either, truly an insufferable bunch. Now I compartmentalize them into the same danger zone as tifs who draw the tit chop scars on every character, after all there's no major differences between the two groups anyways aside from one preferring a significantly dykeier aesthetic for their self inserts than the other.
No.2607
>>2604I'm working on a project with character selection and decided to make the yandere character who goes from friend to enemy always match the gender of the PC, but it was because I wanted to avoid the kind of dudebro who develops a hateboner for female villains and posts rape and murder fantasies over them. Yumes would also be BTFO as a bonus I guess kek
No.2610
>>2590>i apologize if it's been discussed before in this thread or in another but i had to let this out.There was some talk of it in the fanfic thread a while back. I hate it a lot too!
I also hate it when people add "Jesus/Christ" as an expression in fics where it just would not ever be used. There's an otherwise really solid writer who does this and every time it happens I am slapped right out of the story. Like these dudes are from Japan in a world where Christianity has never even been mentioned, why would any of them say that? (╯°益°)╯彡┻━┻
No.2611
>>2610Agree agree, though I think it's equally annoying when people add fake religious profanity "Oh my Arceus" for instance.
No.2625
>>2569I'm a Nu:Carnival anon in that thread you're talking about, and lord they try my patience
No.2631
>>2625NTAYRT, but I'm also there for Nu:Carnival and the occasional Arknights posting and while I can (at times) tolerate yumes yumeing the ones in that thread in particular are beyond annoying. I wish we could just have a homo thread and not have to coexist with them, or have our sisters move here.
No.2648
I hate the latest twitter trend of calling male characters women.
The BSD fandom has been doing it since the last season dropped. Calling these obvious ships with two guys "yuri" or calling them women. I don't know if they're doing it because they're so ashamed due from anti fujo backlash and think they need to pretend their fake men are actually lesbians so they don't get cancelled for being attracted to men, but it's sad.
These characters are men! These people forgot about long haired bishies so they think they're women or "coded". There's a new character coming in that Honkai Star Rail game, and he looks like a bishie knight with the long hair, and the fans won't stop calling him a woman or complaining that he's not a woman.
No.2649
>>2648omg that reminds me of some unhinged tumblr post I saw years ago about ho Tony Stark in the MCU is female coded because he shows his emotions, he's sometimes emotionally weak and irrational and he often fucks up because of his backstory, he won't stop getting kidnapped and getting rescued and the scene in Civil War where Steve and Bucky beat him up together is gang rape coded. This post was so stupid while trying to seem so intellectual it traumatized me.
No.2650
>>2649Some people just don't have a concept of moe or doofus, smh.
No.2654
>>2648>think they need to pretend their fake men are actually lesbians so they don't get cancelled for being attracted to menits such retarded logic but i wouldnt be surprised if there's people who earnestly latch onto that kind of wistful thinking since theyve been brainwashed into believing that fujo = bad. people sincerely reblog things like
>>2649 not thinking it tries to be so woke that it loops back around to being regressive. basically, being emotionally weak, irrational, getting kidnapped/having to be rescued and being gang raped are the hallmarks of femininity? way to reveal your own internalized misogyny by attributing the worst traits to women.
speaking of which, i feel like long-haired bishies and pretty/androgynous males are a relic of the past - or rather, the admiration of those types of characters as definitively male. nowadays they're doomed to become nonbinary or femboys/traps. besides gendie nonsense, i blame this on moids' inability to see nuance. men can only be roided-up mountains of muscle or pornified "slap a dick on a flat-chested girl and call it a boy" femboys, with nothing in between. a character like lio from promare would've been a bishie back in the day, but now he's doomed to being femboy coombait.
bishonen characters like kenshin, kurama and sesshomaru were what made me a weeb in the first place - males who were pretty enough to look like women but still male. their effeminate appearance and "feminine" qualities (softness, sensitivity, etc) made them more attractive. in fact its one of the rare times i could remember when being girly/feminine wasn't a negative thing. oh, the irony of how much we've regressed!
No.2708
>>2605Yumeshits ruined Childe and Xiao for me. Xiao does get homo content with the traveler, but any ship involving a self insert attracts such insane fans that even that ship became too toxic after a while. Liking your husbando is normal, but I notice at least when a ship has two defined characters, the insanity can be spread out and people can be reminded of canon. When the main character is a "literally me" character, their fans are more encouraged to be batshit insane and toxic over "their" love interest.
No.2709
>>2649People said the same thing about Bucky too. That Bucky was rape victim coded because of the brainwashing and not writing Bucky the way someone wanted was misogyny. Don't even need to unpack all of that.
No.2710
>>2709Depending on how you define rape it's true. If mindraped wasn't such a contentious phrase it would fit the situation perfectly, really the word used to refer to any breach of a persons privacy.
>>2649This is hilariously backwards and screams of someone reaching to have the hottest most fresh take.
No.2711
>>2708Add Wanderer to this and you pretty much got how I feel. All of the dudes who I think are believably into the traveler just have the worst damn fanfics about it (even the m/m ones, honestly). I just enjoy the fanart and try not to get too asspained about the state of it.
No.2712
>go to mrm
>ask if the mha gangbang doujin is gonna be yaoi or cuntboy
>uploader doesnt understand
>i pull out an illustrated diagram explaining what is yaoi and what is cuntboy
>uploader laughs and says "it's a good doujin, ma'am"
>go to the mha doujin
>it’s cuntboy
No.2713
>>2711I wish the traveler could be deleted from the story, they're so boring and the fandom always spergs out if the yume fave husbandos are shipped with another dude. But we can never have any games with cute boys and fanservice that doesn't also need to cater to yumes for money.
No.2716
>>2712Kek, was it a jp doujin or western? I think unless a jp artist has an specific fetish for cuntboy, most cuntboy or "trans" works are entirely western. Chinese do warn about adding cuntboy into stuff though.
No.2718
>>2631It's been getting so bad with the Genshit wanking and the hell gacha recently. Maybe we should just make a thread here and see who bites?
No.2757
just going full sperg here for a sec: i hate male lactation as a kink and i’m tired of pretending to be all “your-kink-is-not-my-kink-and-that’s-okay” about it. especially considering the fact that it’s fucking everywhere in a few of my fandoms. and the absolute worrrssst is when an author is trying to pass it off as all cute and paternal for a father-child bonding moment when it’s OBVIOUS they’re still writing it as a kink. like, at least own up to it ffs.
and before anyone tells me i have hang-ups: breastfeeding mothers do not bother me at all. i just don’t want to read about a 40yo natal male having leaky tits.
No.2758
>>2757I believe you, but I have never personally seen male lactation in the wild. It must be more common in some fandoms than others. However, there are a huge number of 'transfemme' male characters in my favorite fandom. I haven't seen any lactation though.
No.2759
>>2758my condolences on the trans shit. my fandoms aren’t too bad with that rn, so i guess lactation is the price i pay, unfortunately. i see it the most in anime fandoms, and for some reason, also star wars??
you haven’t lived until you’ve had someone seriously recommend you a fic about baby yoda being breastfed, kek. No.2760
>>2759i had a little obikin phase and can attest male lactation is weirdly common for it, even if it's only in the double digits i was surprised bc i rarely run into the tags in other fandoms
No.2761
>male lactation
yea this shit is fucking weird
only topped by male pregnancy
now THAT is something that sends me into a fit a rage whenever i see it
No.2762
>>2760you understand me. i made the mistake of rewatching the prequels for the first time in years a while back, so i’m currently in the midst of an obikin phase. why is it always obi-wan?? what is it about him specifically that warrants this trope?? it’s giving me brain damage.
>>2761i’ve also never been able to read mpreg and I’m glad you share my pain, nonna. assbabies are just too much for me.
No.2763
>>2762>>2761They don't actually come out of the ass, it's a C-section/cloaca thing tbh. I understand not liking them, but personally it's not the pregnancy part that's hot, it's the concept of breeding.
Just a pervy mpreg enjoyer, don't mind me.
No.2764
>>2763tbh i totally get the appeal of the whole breeding aspect, esp when it overlaps with “claiming” or a “you’re mine now” angle. i’m also mostly okay if there’s a timeskip and then, boom, baby. but anything that focuses on the in-between is just a personal no-go. i end up with too many questions about the hypothetical biology of it all and by that point, i’m not immersed anymore.
No.2765
>assbabies are just too much for me
amirite???
imagine literally shitting out your children lmfao
>They don't actually come out of the ass, it's a C-section/cloaca thing tbh.
im honestly not sure which is worse
>personally it's not the pregnancy part that's hot, it's the concept of breeding.
yea i get it
like the other nona said
>“claiming” or a “you’re mine now”
i like it too
on a metaphysical level
i just wish ppl would find less gross ways to convey that
>i’m also mostly okay if there’s a timeskip and then, boom, baby.
yea thats fine
skip the icky bits
>i end up with too many questions about the hypothetical biology of it all and by that point, i’m not immersed anymore.
my problem isnt even that it makes no sense
its that it might make sense
and if i think about it for more than 5 seconds it quickly turns into body horror, and thats just… yuck
No.2767
I've read a lot of mpreg fics over the years, and I've still only come across one fic that actually described how the child was born instead of skipping it. I don't remember which fandom it was, some BL I had read over a decade ago? It was really methodical and weird about it too. The majority of them are just "x is pregnant and needy and then they cuddle a lot". Sometimes you get possessive boyfriend plots thrown in. I remember liking one where a delinquent guy gets yelled into submission by his partner, and then they talked out that he'd been on edge thinking he couldn't do anything to help. Kind of standard pregnancy romance fluff but with two guys.
No.2768
>>2757>>2761I actually personally enjoy male lactation, I didn't think that would be a fetish a lot of fujos dislike. But I do like it strictly as a coomer thing where the explanation for it is no more than "love potion making temporary changes to the body" or similar. It's not really on the same level of unrealism as mpreg imo.
Although thinking about it, reading it in an omegaverse fic where the author pretends its not just a fetish would certainly be weird so I get the hate.
No.2769
>>2768yea im p okay with most fetishes that arent disgusting on a visceral level if the person just owns up their cumbrain
what annoys me is when they try to convince me its more than that somehow
feels like theyre trying to insult my intelligence or something
i mean, its clearly a load a barnacles and im being expected to believe it
No.2770
>>2768thanks for the insight, nonna. although i still can’t imagine being into it, i can at least respect the fics that play it straight with the “this is a kink” angle, instead of the ones that bury it under layers of “but it’s a BONDING ritual” or “we’re out of food, there’s no other way!!” (which i’ve actually seen, both examples.)
>>2769>what annoys me is when they try to convince me its more than that somehowthis is another part of the squick for me. 1–2 sentences about a baby nursing isn’t terrible, but even if it’s an mpreg scenario, gratuitous description of breastfeeding just makes me feel like the baby is a part of the fetish now. i don’t buy any explanation about it being paternal and fluffy. i’d feel the same way about a clearly fetish-oriented piece about a woman breastfeeding.
No.2771
>>2770Wait they're doing it when the baby feeds and not the partner being a dumb jealous fuck?
No.2772
>>2771are you asking if they have sex while one partner is breastfeeding their baby? i saw that in a (het) doujin once, but not in fanfic. it’s probably out there if you look, though. i was talking about fics where nursing a baby is the main point, but it’s written with such detail that it feels like a sexual work anyway.
No.2773
>>2772No, I mean describing breastfeeding in a pervy manner. I just expected it to be more like their partner complains they have a right to try some too and sucks a nipple while the baby's sleeping.
No.2774
>>2773ohh, i see. i read “doing it” as a euphemism, kek. but yeah. i’ve seen fics like that. they’ll be tagged like fluff fics, rated gen, but the content is just… very detailed and sensually-written breastfeeding of a baby. and it’s not even all about the bond with the baby. so much of it will just be descriptions of the act itself. it’s so strange to me.
the whole “let me try” trope when one partner is lactating and the other is curious actually doesn’t bother me much, aside from the baseline level of squick that male lactation gives me in general.
No.2778
I know you guys are talking about hating mpreg which usually is about actual paralels to human-like pregnancy but what about horror mpreg? Being fucked by a monster and forced to be bred, getting pregnant but not inherently being able to birth a human, usually just abominations or eggs.
No.2779
>>2778>horror mpregthis already is beyond fucked up and having it done to a male doesnt make it any better
not to kink shame tho
No.2781
>>2779>having it done to a male doesnt make it any betterNot her but yes it absolutely does kek, atleast for me. Men have been oppressing women for centuries they can handle a couple dozen monsterfucking mpreg fics, shit's not even real anyway.
No.2782
>>2778personally it's been a fav of mine since I watched Alien for the first time 8 years ago. Previously wasn't into Sweet Pool much although I still played it, wasn't into furry, but monster on male just hits the spot lol. Even better when it's monster→male←monster. When HM released Pain Killer it was like my birthday had arrived early.
No.2783
>>2781im gonna have to peruse a few samples to be convinced
No.2784
>>2718A general mobage thread? I would be up for it, like the joseimuke one I expect it to be mostly nu:c but I never had an issue with that.
No.2836
Am I the only one who gets extremely autistic about top/bottom dynamics? I understand that it's not as big of a deal in western fandom. Western fujos seem to be into reversible couples for the most part, but I break out in hives if I so much as see fanart of my otp where the seme/uke are reversed. It's an instant block for that fanartist.
My justification is that top/bottom dynamics fundamentally change the way two characters interact with each other. Yeah, they're still the same two characters, but depending on who tops and who bottoms you end up with two completely different ships almost.
Sometimes, I'll be sperging about my otp with an anon and we're hitting it off, but then I realize she ships the reverse of what I ship and that pretty much ruins the exchange for me kek. All I can think is "damn nonna, you were this close to having good taste". There was an episode of "kiss him not me" where the two fujos stop talking to eachother over a disagreement about top/bottom dynamics and I used to think it was all just a meme, but that shit really does ruin friendships kek.
No.2837
>>2836With the majority of my ships I'm mega autistic about top/bottom but there are a few where I have a preference but can tolerate a switch if the art/story is good enough. For me a lot of the make-or-break in my enjoyment in switching is how IC the top-gone-bottom remains because usually I'm like "he would not do/say this" and close the tab.
>that shit really does ruin friendships kek.You'd probably like Ghostbuster Osamu.
The largely western pushback against top/bottom preferences is extremely annoying to me though. Even if you don't have them the inability or unwillingness to understand people that do is weird.
No.2838
>>2837>>2836You guys are Asian, right? I don't understand why you guys are like this at all. If anything, it seems borderline homophobic, or discriminatory in some way. It is as if you're saying a character who bottoms can no longer be strong-willed or one who tops is always in charge. How you have sex doesn't change your dynamics, imo, and this is why Westerners find you to be oddballs.
No.2839
>>2836>My justification is that top/bottom dynamics fundamentally change the way two characters interact with each otherI'm strict with top/bottom too but I feel like the opposite when it comes to this. For me, it doesn't have anything to do with the personalities changing depending on who tops/bottoms, I just want to see a specific character fucking a guy in the ass or being fucked in the ass. I like dominant bottoms and submissive tops so maybe that's why, but I'll read almost anything as long as they're in my preferred positions, I don't really care if the top gets pseudoukeified. Though coming across stuff like that is rare because people often tie top/bottom and dom/sub together.
>>2838>It is as if you're saying a character who bottoms can no longer be strong-willed or one who tops is always in chargeSame, I dislike how t/b is basically seen as personality types and not just sex positions. People on Twitter give out justifications for why they see a certain character as a top/bottom and it always comes down to "control" and whatever but that has more to do with d/s than anything. Tbh it's not just fujos that are like this, I've seen gay men share similar sentiments. It's mostly downstream from people viewing bottoming as an inherently subordinate position because you're having something done to you rather than the opposite. Not saying that everyone who likes strict t/b has this view but it's a common mindset.
No.2840
>>2836Don't worry nonna, I also get really autistic about my fixed top/bottom preferences to the point it feels almost embarrassing. I genuinely can't talk about certain ships with my friends who ship the other way because I get so irritated over it kek
>My justification is that top/bottom dynamics fundamentally change the way two characters interact with each other. Yeah, they're still the same two characters, but depending on who tops and who bottoms you end up with two completely different ships almost. I agree. I have ships that some people ship the other way and they always end up portraying them in a very non-canon fashion that strays from the original source to the point the characters are almost unrecognizable, like making a big, strong, confident guy into a bubbly tsundere mess being dominated and the soft, cute guy into this confident alpha male. I sometimes feel like they're doing it just to be contrarian and feel special for having such a "complex" taste. I don't have a problem with reversible couples that actually do have a reversible dynamic (similar energy and personalities) and I have lots of characters that can be a top to one character and a bottom to another, but with ships that have a clear distinction between the characters I'm ready to go into war over my headcanon. I know it's dumb but that's exactly why I hate that people get so damn high and mighty about preferring either way.
Related, but powerbottoms are still bottoms and service tops are still tops. I also hate that people try to muddy the waters with claiming that ackshually powerbottoms are sexually dominant so they're a top. In layman's terms top is the one who penetrates the bottom but I feel like there's a more nuanced definition to it since even in series with no sexual acts you can still tell the difference between "a top" and "sexually dominant personality".
No.2841
>>2838>It is as if you're saying a character who bottoms can no longer be strong-willed or one who tops is always in chargewhat if I like fixed hot-headed bottoms and non-dominant tops?
I like some ships fixed and some non-fixed. Depends on kinks and headcanons for me. I agree that some eastern fujos can get a bit annoying with their autism about it, though. There's this artist who ships my ship but blocks anyone who ships it reversed lol. (Though a silent block is eons better than making it everyone else's problem constantly and vocally)
>it seems borderline homophobic, or discriminatory in some way.discriminatory to who? The characters?
I wouldn't call everyone who has a shipping preference 'homophobic' unless they're trying to apply top/bottom fandom bullcrap to irl people.
No.2842
>>2838>If anything, it seems borderline homophobic, or discriminatory in some way. lol. lmao. firstly yaoi isn't a representation of gay men or gay people dynamics and ironically enough, actual *actual* gay men DO care about top/bottom in their own space. A bottom will not want to top and a top will not want to bottom, gay culture is an entirely different stratosphere altogether. And hell, even het or dyke relationships do this too. Sub/Dom exists for any and all relationships.
And back to 2D,Seme/Uke does indeed change dynamics from the type of fanart you see, the fics you see, the content you see.
Some people prefer to see "strong willed characters" as that, straight up their aggressive selves that they need an uke for, and the uke is usually feminized.
For example, Griffguts it's not the same as Gutsgriff even if people all put it under the same umbrella. There may be people who want to see a strong willed character like Guts stay dominant as he is in his Canon, while others want to watch him bottom. There are people who know that despite Griffith looking effeminate, he's cruel and sadistic and not a bottom princess uke to get fucked but some people may exactly want to see him degraded for the same reasons one may like him to top.
When it comes to fanworks, dynamics matter no matter what you do.
Powerbottoms are rising and so are reverse/switch ships but it depends entirely on the characters and their personalities why would it work or why it wouldn't.
No.2843
>>2842>ironically enough, actual *actual* gay men DO care about top/bottom in their own space. A bottom will not want to top and a top will not want to bottom, gay culture is an entirely different stratosphere altogether.I sometimes feel like these people have never met gay men in their lives, they absolutely have preferences about topping/bottoming. Fuck, I'm a lesbian and I'm 100% a top. I feel like the best way to explain it is that top and bottom are sort of like, for the lack of a better term, interpersonal subgenders similar to butch and femme that dictate what is to be expected from you in terms of your sexual behavior. It honestly doesn't exist in the same sense in straight relationships because an average male is able to overpower an average woman physically and suppress her in other ways, and the act of PIV always has the woman be put in a vulnerable position. I don't know if this sounds like a schizobabble to anyone because I'm just talking out loud but maybe someone gets what I'm trying to say.
No.2844
>>2842Cool story, still sounds pretty shit to me even if real people do it. You even go on in your example about Guts and Griff to again say top/bottom is about power. I don't mind if you think it's more hot for Guts to top or bottom, I just think it's gross if you think his topping or bottoming has to do with his personality and his power in the relationship. Anyway this is why I can't stand your side of any fandom, you people are so annoying about who gets fucked. I've seen your type and you people make it like walking on eggshells. You complain that nobody understands your POV while then autistically shutting down and shutting out all that disagree. Ironically, people who don't care about the ship dynamic are for more accepting of your Eastern bull shit. "Stupid Westerners this, stupid Westerners that" fuck off.
I don't CARE who tops, I just want to see somebody fucked.
No.2845
>>2843Just gonna say it is exactly because this culture that I will forever be unable to connect with homosexuals. I just find this way of acting and seeing others so stupid. As a gay person, I do not care who in my relationship gets fucked or does this fucking and this is probably precisely while I'll never be with a woman. Butch, femme. Fuck, you can never just be a regular person. There are """roles""".
No.2847
>Yeah, they're still the same two characters, but depending on who tops and who bottoms you end up with two completely different ships almost.
Tbh that's one of the reasons why I like seeing it, I like variety. I do want to see characters to stay in character, obviously, but I also like seeing what sort of situations would get them to different positions.
Seeing two characters only interact with each other in a specific way gets a little dull after a while, so I tend to be on the lookout just to see how someone would imagine the reverse ship, or another ship entirely to be. That, and after a while such roles tend to flanderize the characters. I find that a character who is always portrayed as an uke becomes more and more of one as it goes along, losing their personality more than otherwise.
No.2848
>>2846Way to have empathy. Piss off asshole.
No.2849
>>2836i think a sizable number of fujos lowkey feel the same as you - even in the west where reversible dynamics are more prevalent - but people won't outright say it since the "uke/seme dynamic is harmful and homophobic!!11" discourse made it impolitically correct to express fixed preferences for sex positions and ship dynamics. yaoi was never meant to be a one-to-one representation of reality - in the same way that a gengoroh tagame manga purely represents a gay male fantasy - so the appeal to realism felt irrational in the first place.
personally speaking, i'm a "i don't have a rigid preference about who my fave character is shipped with as long as he's on the bottom" type of fujo. the positive side is that i'm fine with multiship - i just want to see him getting fucked by humans, mobs, tentacles, whatever - but his most popular pairing (my current otp) was also plagued by uke/seme wars in the past so i feel like im treading on eggshells. fortunately, most of his fic features him as the bottom but in the occasion i find fic where he is top, i just click the back button.
>>2840 and
>>2842 do a good job at explaining how reversing roles fundamentally changes the dynamics and appeal of a ship. yaoi math is not commutative. oftentimes, A/B is not the same as B/A. it's not so much about power - deterministically calculating who is the "man" and "woman" - as it is about the push and pull between the characters. at the end of the day, we all have different interpretations of characters and different modes of engaging with shipping so it is inevitable that people will have individual preferences that are incompatible with each other. at least in eastern fandom the prevailing attitude seems to be "let's agree to disagree" as opposed to western fandom where people have entire fucking ship wars within a ship, complete with SJW morality arguments.
im reminded of this snake-frog-slug fujoshi chart that describes fujo preferences based on 1) if you want your fave character to be uke or seme 2) if multishipping is ok and 3) if reversible is ok. there's a translation of this floating somewhere on fujochan.
No.2850
>>2840>I sometimes feel like they're doing it just to be contrarian and feel special for having such a "complex" taste. I get this vibe from a few ships, where it seems subversion matters more than anything. Funny story though: recently I've warmed up to a ship where I found out afterward I like the much less popular order and girl I am not kidding when I say I would rather not be into it at all than deal with looking for B/A in the sea of A/B. I like switch ships but this is simply not one of them. Damn you, brain.
To me shipping prefs are like a food allergy. It's inside you for some dumb chemical reason and there is no cure. Best to just hope people label stuff properly.
>>2849>floating somewhere on fujochan.Tried to redump them and was redirected to
>>1496, glad they didn't get eaten.
No.2851
A/B and B/A are only fundamentally different if people do the position = personality thing. Like, B is the bottom so this means only he gets sexual harassment/attempted rape, he rarely initiates, he starts yelling 'yamete' and stuff even if he seemed into it, he gets dominated in the end even if it starts as a power bottom scenario, A the top will always be pushy and only care about getting his nut even if he's the kindest character ever because 'I'm a man' even though so is B and so logically they should both be horny.
That's not to say I never have preferences on who I like to see topping or bottoming but only when I don't like how people characterize a version of the ship is when I start mostly looking for the other one. I like variety like above anon so I usually check out both, by the fujo chart I would probably be a turtle with occasional otp autism.
I usually see the characters' personalities a certain way and just want them to stay IC no matter how they're fucking, so I might want A to be dominant no matter if he's topping or bottoming if that's how I see their dynamic, so if everyone writing bottom A turns him ultra submissive then I'll stop looking. Sometimes there is a ship I like with switching/equal power dynamics and it's the worst feel ever because it tends to be hard as fuck to find, especially in asian fandom.
Overall, sometimes I feel like submissive top/dominant bottom are like a third category for each ship alongside A/B, B/A and A/B/A. If only it was tagged more often so it was easier to find.
No.2852
>>2849>at least in eastern fandom the prevailing attitude seems to be "let's agree to disagree" as opposed to western fandom where people have entire fucking ship wars within a ship, complete with SJW morality arguments. They literally reported some ships in certain parts of the East, they got so pissy about them. AO3 isn't even a thing in China anymore. Or are you going to say "but not that part of the East"?
No.2853
>>2844Just because you have no attachment or connection to ships beyond hot yaoi segs doesn't mean everyone else does, and if your media is predominantly japanese you WILL encounter top/bottom dynamics as a personality trait no matter where you go.
I brought up griffguts because it was one example that came to mind but it applies to anything, fucking kawoshin. It's fixed shinji bottom uwu uke and kaworu either being a rapist or soft top, you will NOT find bottom kaworu because in the fandom conscious he's a top. And besides, it's fucking fanwork. Are you going to directly ask the character what they act like in bed or otherwise? Everything is a headcanon. Fanwork is inherently ooc. My ooc is more ic than your ooc. For years. Doujinshi are riddled with top/bottom, fanart has specific top/bottom headcanons, fics, etc. Everything does because that's the foundation of shipping BL, even GL.
There are games like nu:c that straight up refuse to do reverse dynamics because they don't want to piss of the fixed ship fujos.
As long as your media is Asian you will not escape top/bottom. Not even locked to just Japan, Danmei fans are fucking insane about this in particular.
No.2854
>>2853It's fixed shinji bottom uwu uke and kaworu either being a rapist or soft top, you will NOT find bottom kaworu because in the fandom conscious he's a top.
Sage because I finally got an opportunity to show off parts of my ShinKawo folder. ShinKawo, which I ship specifically in the order of Shinji fucking Kaworu as generally a mentally unwell, often cool or pissily hot-headed top, is not too hard to find even if it's a bit niche. There's a special tag for it on Pixiv.
No.2855
>>2778I like it, as long as it isn't insect of oviposition. Those two are revolting and I'm tired of seeing it in the mpreg tags
No.2857
>>2838>You guys are Asian, right? Not them, but I'm hispanic and I sure as hell am autistic about it.
>it seems borderline homophobic, or discriminatory in some waylmao they're not real. I'm tired of westerncucks thinking they're progressive/realistic/truefujo if they're into switching. Gay men do call themselves tops and bottoms in real life
>>2844Calm down westie
No.2858
>>2852no one's going to deny eastern fans aren't capable of nuclear spergouts but at least the prevailing shipping etiquette there is to tag your content properly so that strict fans of A/B can avoid B/A and the implicit expectation is that you are personally responsible for the content you consume. meanwhile, here in the west on a regular basis you have rival ships contaminating each others' tags on purpose or lurking for the express purpose of stirring the pot, people launching cancel campaigns for artists who don't draw the pairing or ship order they like, and an overall expectation that other people should be held responsible for your comfort and emotional well-being. the east has their fair share of petty fights but the level of entitlement in western fandom means we're locked in a state of perpetual discourse.
also, the "ao3 getting banned in china" incident wasn't even a ship war; the instigators were idol fans who didn't like seeing rpf.
>>2857lol, the irony when the anon who claims they just want to see two dudes fucking is acting more autistic than any of the anons who admitted to having preferences.
No.2860
>>2857>Calm down westieI'm calm, I just don't see a reason why I have to agree with you people. And what makes it worse is half of you probably aren't even from the East. Like how annoying to suck their dicks when all they do is look down upon you.
I'm probably alone in it, and that's fine. But I'm free to say what I want.
No.2866
>>2858>lol, the irony when the anon who claims they just want to see two dudes fucking is acting more autistic than any of the anons who admitted to having preferences.Yeah, see
>>2860.
>And what makes it worse is half of you probably aren't even from the East. Like how annoying to suck their dicks when all they do is look down upon you.top kek. Breathe.
No.2867
I don't like when artists block people for supporting ship positions they don't like. I keep my twitter private so the JP can't do it to me for my past RTs/likes, but I've had western artists do it to me and they always vaguepost angrily to announce that they have. Like sorry one out of ten of my asks you replied to offended you for a sentence. Stop crying that nobody sends you asks when you snapped on them and started blocking in all directions. You can't expect people to write you fic extracts when you insult them for it.
>>2839There's a youtube vid where a gay couple in Japan discuss it and the answers of other gay men about why there's more bottoms than tops in Japan, and why younger men gravitate towards bottoming. The general gist of it is that people who feel inexperienced or like they're imposing on someone else will choose bottoming because it's both less responsibility for how good the sex is, and feels like providing something for the other person. Older guys realise that there's both a lack of tops, and that topping badly isn't the end of the world because they've had some bad or mediocre tops in their time. A few times in the video they assert that top/bottom doesn't have personality traits associated then catch themselves doing it and get flustered.
Anyway, even accounting for how much they're into anal stimulation there's a social aspect that weighs on people's choices. Shy young men are especially likely to bottom because topping for the first time is daunting.
Personally I like to start separating things into who initiates, who takes charge or is more active, and then position. This also has flaws because it's easy to have a bold character take initiative and be the one putting it in because they're confident it'll be accepted. A bottom taking initiative feels extra lustful, like he knows exactly what he wants right now and it's dick. Until you have an existing character in mind these stereotypes will warp your perception.
No.2868
>>2838>If anything, it seems borderline homophobic, or discriminatory in some wayGo back to twitter.
No.2869
>>2836I have clear preferences but I rather avoid this whole idea that personalities define sex dynamics and that sex dynamics define personalities, which seems to be the root of the debate to me. I prefer thinking that sex is sort of a parallel, intimate realm where both characters can expose sides of them that were hidden or not fully explored up until that moment. Maybe they can finally express the full potential of their established personalities, or maybe they turn out to prefer a different thing than you would have expected judging from their outer persona. Either way it's cathartic, and seems like an organic way to keep developing the characters and the story. I very much prefer this over looking at a doujin or BL cover and thinking "ok, I already know what they're gonna act like and who's taking it in the ass". But I understand some people prefer that.
No.2870
>>2836I headcanon all the characters I am into as switches without exception.
Don't see the point limiting them to one role that's boring and I am not really into twink/big guy dynamics rather big guy/big guy so it doesn't matter much.
No.2872
Imo the one i like should always bottom no matter the dynamic or d/s. I have some special kind of brainworm (most likely the 'tism in me) that sends dopamine rushes when seeing my fav bttm and reacts with utter revulsion at the mere idea of him toping kek. I also know i'm not alone in being so simpleminded and honestly i can't bring myself to give a shit.
No.2895
>>2872Absolutely, I'm the same exact way. There's nothing wrong with having preferences. I think for me, a lot of it boils down to it being fine to like what you like as long as you genuinely like it and aren't just pretending to like it for some weird, performative SJW thing. I get that feeling from a lot of people who claim to like switching. Not all, of course, just many.
No.2897
>>2867>why there's more bottoms than tops in JapanNot to take away from anything but from what I've read, this is basically the case in the west too. More bottoms and subs, than tops and doms. So I wonder if there being more of a preference for bottoming than topping, is actually just an inherent thing to some extent. Like how statistically there are more straight people than gay. Most men are just buttsluts imo. The reasons like people being shy or not wanting to disappoint seem like a post-hoc justification.
>Older guys realise that there's both a lack of tops, and that topping badly isn't the end of the world because they've had some bad or mediocre tops in their time. Kinda sad cus it sounds like they're settling for the top position just to get any sex at all, but not necessarily wanting to top? I'm reaching i guess
No.2898
It's annoying when fanart turns the bottom into a weepy moeblob regardless of his real personality but otherwise I simply find it more aesthetically pleasing for some guys to bottom instead of top. It just depends cause there's also pairings where I'm fine with them switching.
No.2903
I really dislike it when people go on about how "the author didn't know they wrote it like this and they don't know what they're doing but actually it really is trans/queercoded".
It feels incredibly disrespectful. The author wrote in a specific way because that's what they wanted to write. Don't act like the author is this brainless monkey tapping randomly at a keyboard just so your made up bullshit can make half sense.
No.2914
I don't know when this shit has started but at some point fandoms have just collectively decided that "non-human" meant "non-gendered" and as a fan of aliens, lichs and robots I hate it with every ounce of my being. It doesn't just attract the worst users on the planet it also dominates fics and if you are unlucky even fanart and hermaphrodites, moefied and lolified guys and sexualized genderbent versions of them is almost all you'll get nowadays if you are into these sorts of characters.
Oh and endless humanifications with giant fat tights and tits that look like the creation of a sadpanda coomer doujinshi because for some reason cuteness and sex appeal can only be feminine and since everybody is "trans" they absolutely have to headcanon every non-human as such and turn them into their personal self-insert dumping puppets.
No.2923
>>2914Yeah and these "non-gendered" beings always have a fucking vagina. I hate it
No.2924
>>2923Yes. It even happens when they look like normal human men, see modern fics for Vash for example.
It's not surprise that trans identifying people would latch onto that and use the non-human biology as an excuse to make them non-binary or however you call that. What I don't get is why it's everywhere. Like you cannot find a single fic or nsfw fanart about robots and most types of aliens anymore without it.
So unless literally 99,5% of all fanbases are "trans" it means that non-trans fans adapted it, but why? Is it for the clout since most modern fans seem to prefer hermaphrodites or tranny characters so they are afraid of not getting enough clicks? Or fear of coming off as anti? I don't get it.
I wouldn't care if it was just 20% of the fan works. Lots of popular tags I hate, like basically all AUs that I just ignore. But it's everything. So for some fandoms or species you simply don't find a single fic that is actually gay as in, two actual men interacting with each other or having sex.
No.2925
>>2924Robots with modular genitals makes sense to me but giving male ayys pussies/cloacae drives me insane when that's all that's ever on the menu in newer works.
>non-trans fans adapted it, but why?Fandom is full of young people easily swayed into doing something for brownie points. It has echoes of a BNF starting a trend and then everybody emulating that to either get popular themselves or to curry favor with the BNF. But there is no singular BNF in this situation, just a fandom-wide pressure to be inclusive (and perhaps exciting, as cis has joined the ranks of hetero, white, fit/slim and able-bodied as "boring"). It reminds me a lot of Tumblr 10 years ago when racebending was trendy.
Pic related is parody, but sometimes scrolling my dash really did feel this way.
No.2926
>>2923I ended up dropping Transformers over it, it's fucking stupid for robots to have vaginas and most people can't even draw them appealingly.
No.2927
>>>2924
>why
Self inserting for the same reasons so much yuri is futa. Go look at asian fandom and you'll see tons of hetbend, and the popularity of omegaverse has a lot to do with the mpreg aspect. I think cuntboy is becoming popular in c-fandom too.
Basically, I think in the past, it wasn't as 'acceptable' or just not as popular but then trans headcanons started getting everywhere and people started using them as an excuse for cuntboy kink. The majority of smut tagged trans is just thinly veiled genderbend or cuntboy kink and some people openly admit they just tag it trans because they think they have to.
So, yeah. BL is just becoming yuri now, where you have to wade through vaginas instead of dicks. And on the topic of nonhuman genitals, that's probably the only case where I don't mind it but I spent a lot of time in Homestuck fandom. True that variety is better and I'm not really a fan of robopussy either, be more creative with wireplay and stuff.
No.2928
>>2924>see modern fics for VashIt's almost funny, their excuse is always "well, he's a plant so," as if gardens are just chock full of human vaginas.
No.2930
>>2928Can plants not have penises or something? Why can't these people just admit they just do it because they like cuntboy/piv instead of coming up with some in-universe justification? It's so retarded.
>>2927>BL is just becoming yuri now, where you have to wade through vaginas instead of dicksNot really, more like it's becoming het. You rarely see people draw/write sex between 2 vaginas when they make cuntboy content. If it's not solo then it's always piv cuntboy x biological male. Yuribend exists but at least most creators for that have the decency to tag it and categorize it under f/f compared to cuntboytards putting their shit under m/m.
No.2933
>>2930>You rarely see people draw/write sex between 2 vaginasCorrect me if I'm wrong because I don't know how much futs yuri is futa x futa but I thought most futa yuri was still PIV.
BL has always been niche and I wonder if the people today who only write hetbend or trans PIV m/m (there are a lot of people like this) are people who would have been plain yumejo het shippers 20 years ago, and are only into the feminized version of BL. I genuinely think the 'BL fans' who literally only write trans m/m are yumes in denial.
No.2934
>>2926I know this! It annoys me because I love a bunch of transformer bots and would love to make yaoi threads for them, but since everything nsfw besides deepthroat fanart is herms you don't have enough content to post. I should finish my gay nsfw art for that shit to bring in a bit of diversity.
>>2927I remember a few cases from the early 00s where some fans headcanoned some feminine looking male characters as women for sad-past reasons, since the characters pretended to be male to survive in whatever harsh setting the series had.
> And on the topic of nonhuman genitals, that's probably the only case where I don't mind it but I spent a lot of time in Homestuck fandom.Yeah it's mostly the lack of variety I am sad about not the sheer existence of it. I remember reading TF fics from 2014-2015 that were pretty hot or cute despite featuring cable sex. I would enjoy more of that too lol even if it's not the same as sex scenes that turn us on. But I don't always need actual porn in fics, sometimes I just like the chemistry two characters have.
No.2935
>>2933> I genuinely think the 'BL fans' who literally only write trans m/m are yumes in denial.I think the same. Not necessarily writers that give their robot men an additional hole maybe but I noticed that fans that write actual trans content or feminize the characters (regarding bodytype and behavior) are always het shippers. The romances they draw or write about are typical heteronormative stories with the "female" dude being caring, sissified and insecure and meeting the strong, scary masculine dude that has a weakness for this character and either starts some sex ed talk or manhandle him, depending on what the fan is into.
What I never understood is why they don't just make their own fandom and own discords. There are so many of them but instead of doing their own thing they invade fujo spaces to ship barely disguised het or yuri couples.
No.2938
>>2928Holy deja vu. Hi nona from /a/. I genuinely passed over the thread thinking I'd already read it since I saw this post last month.
I'd comment on all this but I think I ought to take myself to the confessions thread instead.
No.2939
>>2934My god, it's so bad right now, my latent Transformers obsession came back and the current pronouns bullshit is cancer, at this point I instantly block anyone who tries the "she/her pronouns" or similar bullshit on anyone, especially Starscream. Like oh, you're making the feminine guy who gets beat up all the time girly? You're making one of the male characters have a vagina while the other dude keeps the dick? It's all so banal, performative, and regressive, it's like their brains short circuit seeing two same-sex characters so they just have to try making it straight and then they make it everyone else's problem.
No.2940
>>2935One of the big reasons I've seen floating around is that "there aren't any good female characters, so I make this male character basically female", which sort of makes you wonder how they actually feel about women, you know?
No.2941
>>2938Kek, now that I think about it, I did make that joke before. Guess I need some new material.
No.2942
>>2923Yeah weird how that works, especially when the character has a close relationship with a male character. There are two kinds of people who headcanon Enkidu from Fate as a "non-gendered being because he's made of clay": genderspecials obsessed with gender discourse and homophobic animebros who can't stomach the thought of their idol Gilgamesh's lover being a man. Make of that what you will.
>>2930>Not really, more like it's becoming het.This. So many effeminate characters that would've been gladly accepted as pretty boy bishounens in the past are now immediately headcanoned as women. Not even "just" cuntboys, just straight out female. With huge tits. And if you're offended by the hetbending, you unironically get called out for "biphobia" because somehow this porn featuring a man and a woman is bisexual since in the canon universe they're both men. It's the most ridiculous feat of mental gymnastics I've seen, I don't understand how they keep a straight face saying this shit.
>>2933>I genuinely think the 'BL fans' who literally only write trans m/m are yumes in denial.That's because they are. The only reason they ever get invested in these ships is because they self insert, they're absolutely unable to be invested in a couple that isn't hot husbando x you. That's why they never read original works and only loom around fujo communities for ship art of their current hyperfixation.
No.2944
>>2942>The only reason they ever get invested in these ships is because they self insert, they're absolutely unable to be invested in a couple that isn't hot husbando x you.Oh yeah. I am in a huge fandom of a franchise that literally has hundreds of male characters. But most of them look masculine so 80% of the fandom is obsessed with the same two characters because they're twinks. Half of those people unironically headcanon them as "she" too.
>>2942> headcanon Enkidu from Fate as a "non-gendered being because he's made of clay"I like him but I will forever seethe about Type-Moon making his gender so ambiguous on purpose and giving him what is basically a female design. The actual Enkidu is described as warrior-type who even looks similar to Gilgamesh.
I would still be okay if they didn't explicitly said that TM-verse Enkidu literally copied his look from a woman since she was the first human he met after his creation. That way every dudebro claims that Enkidu is a woman and every genderspecial believes he's confirmed to be trans because of the copied body.
No.2945
>>2944He didn't copy the female body though, he only copied the woman's face. He has a male body in both looks and how it's described and is referred to as a male in both Japanese script of FGO and Strange fake. He's also played by a male actor in the stage play so he's absolutely a man, the "they don't have a gender because clay!!!" bullshit fully comes from the anglosphere side of the fandom. For some reason homophobic western male Fate otakus idolize the fuck out of Gilgamesh who's been flamboyantly gay since the beginning while the Japanese self-insert into Shirou/Archer.
No.2946
>>2927>Self inserting for the same reasons so much yuri is futa. >I think cuntboy is becoming popular in c-fandom too.I've been burned so many times over this. It's all just hetshit with extra steps. I'm bi so I feel it shouldn't affect me but I just get super disgusted every time. Put the correct genitals on that girl/boy or so help me.
(Semi-related but I knew of a woman who wrote futa on female and tagged it f/f but she was addicted to porn (or weaning herself off it) so I put it down to that, but then it turns out a lot of the f/f tag is becoming futa on female, and the writers, male or female, get away with it this time by tagging it as "transgender female uwu", or "alpha/beta/omega dynamics" as if it's not possible for two omega females to be together? Why do they have to shoehorn dickgirl shit or cuntboy shit into everything? It's disgusting, if I wanted het I'd visit the m/f tag but I'm NOT. Just why is the m/m AND f/f tag becoming PIV, is fandom being taken over by porn addicted virgins or something that can't comprehend sex that isn't PIV? Because what GETS me is that there isn't even any clitoral stimulation. Picrel is mfw every time.)
No.2947
>>2946Futa has always been a popular thing in f/f unfortunately (saying this as a minor yurifag myself), it's a small reason why I've always gravitated towards m/m more because people are actually writing gay sex and not just hetbend with extra steps. The recent cuntboy boom has been majorly depressing for me. Basically no spaces where people can enjoy gay shit without having poorly disguised het shoved everywhere. A lot of people calling themselves fujoshi are just delusional yumes on steroids, especially with the recent "I'm a fujoshi eks dee" memeing.
>porn addicted virgins or something that can't comprehend sex that isn't PIV? Because what GETS me is that there isn't even any clitoral stimulationIt doesn't only have to do with being virgins but the majority of the women writing (in general, not just futa/cuntboy) are opposite-sex attracted so it'll bleed into their work. Even if they're "bisexual" or whatever most of them are incapable of writing anything without a penis involved or unconsciously perceive any sex not involving penetration as not real sex.
No.2948
>>2946>Just why is the m/m AND f/f tag becoming PIVNot sure about the f/f side but I know a lot of people still have the 'ew butt sex' instinctual reaction to anal despite the fact that you don't even have to write it for m/m (I've seen people admit they do PIV just because of this), but I guess there's still a baseline of 'dick must go in vag for real sex' thinking or something. I mean, you can literally find stuff out there where the narrative goes on about how they're more
compatible/made for each other because they can do PIV and have babies.
Also while I hate omegaverse, female alphas having dicks is probably the only good part of it, at least for het, but if the guy has a vagina then I'm not gonna click.
No.2949
>>2948>I guess there's still a baseline of 'dick must go in vag for real sex' thinking or something.NTA but honestly, I think that's a pretty big part about it as PIV has always been seen as the culmination of "true love making". I'll never forget that weirdo yume from here who was writing walls of text about how only a woman can truly love a man and they're meant to purify men of their sinful desires and she reads BL to fantasize about curing the other male of his homosexuality. It's a shame her posts got lost in the big backup fuckup because her unhinged trad ideals were meant to be preserved as a cautionary tale.
No.2950
>>2947>saying this as a minor yurifag myselfSister in arms. Have you ever found any decent yuri r18? Seems the majority that dynasty-scans stocks is sfw multichaps or r18 oneshots. Actually if you have any sfw faves too (manga/manhwa/manhua) I'd love to give them a go, always nice to meet another himejoshi/fujoshi hybrid.
>it's a small reason why I've always gravitated towards m/m more because people are actually writing gay sex and not just hetbend with extra steps.That's completely understandable and relatable too, honestly this is digging up a distant memory of the first time I tried searching explicit Bubbline fic as a teen and got really excited and then discovered it was untagged futa. I think since then I've always gravitated more to m/m because I enjoy stories that are actually about homosexual couples. Talking of, a recent BL fave of mine is "We'll get our happy ending" by Kawaii Jiro. Have you heard of it?
>recent cuntboy boom has been majorly depressing for meME TOO, I was on twitter the other day and I'm not even a genshinfag but there was cuntboy on my TL from a c-fan. Wasn't even retweeted it was just suggested. Can't get away from it. As for eng fandoms if I call it out for being het they get so pissy like they were waiting for me to say it. It goes from fun fandom posting to enforced pvp as if I'm here for anything but a good time. Have you had this experience?!
>most of them are incapable of writing anything without a penis involved or unconsciously perceive any sex not involving penetration as not real sexThis was so sad to read I just bought this solo artist pdf and enrolled on a futurelearn course on fiction writing. We himejoshis need to eat well… let's make something tasty. (It's nanowrimo this month too lol, how fitting.)
https://drive.proton.me/urls/AKA6FCCV3W#BPKw2OsKcjJz>>2948>>2949This is wild to me because it's like they place the act of the sex itself above the characters' dynamic/relationship. Basically a briefcase couple, they could be anyone as long as piv is happening.
>I'll never forget that weirdo yume from hereI REMEMBER HER. She was so insane for all of that. I remember laughing at how it was very yume-nonconforming of her to prey on the uke instead of just yumelusting after the seme which is usually what happens. Hated everything she said it was really impressive on her part.
No.2951
>>2950>it's like they place the act of the sex itself above the characters' dynamic/relationship.This might as well be the case. I mean, it's pretty damn transparent people aren't doing it for 'representation' when even ships who are identical twins still get specifically one half made trans. There's zero logic that actually goes into it, it's just about kink first and foremost, exactly like futa.
And as a fellow yuri fan, good luck out there, I had better get back to writing my shit too…
No.2953
>>2945Reading this I can't help but think that a wet clay dick would be kinda cute. Just dangling there.
No.2992
>>2928Too me this feels unironically repacked homophobia.
Remember how in the 90 you had stuff like "It's not gay because he's an ALIEN!!! or shit like that?". It's like people would put anything over a romance between two dudes.
>>2942>Yeah weird how that works, especially when the character has a close relationship with a male character. There are two kinds of people who headcanon Enkidu from Fate as a "non-gendered being because he's made of clay": genderspecials obsessed with gender discourse and homophobic animebros who can't stomach the thought of their idol Gilgamesh's lover being a man. Make of that what you will. Yep, Gilgamesh is what I thought of.
No.2994
>>2987If you can find a scan of the Polish version, I can try to translate it into English.
No.3002
>>2994We're still waiting for full scans of the Japanese edition. No digital release means someone with debinding experience and a scanner has to be interested.
No.3006
just curious, is there anyone else who doesn't have strong preferences when a character is shipped with other male characters (no matter the combo) but seeing him shipped with female characters often makes you feel irrationally agitated? in other words, multiship is ok if it's M/M but not when it's M/F. for example, gojo/geto, gojo/sukuna, gojo/toji, gojo/megumi…it doesn't matter to me but gojohime? that's a NOTP for me.
for example, i never understood the level of passion behind klance vs sheith or makoharu vs rinharu, or any of the big M/M shipwars in history. i simply see them as different ways of appreciating the characters. besides, big shipwars and all the autism that ensues has always been the territory of hetfags - think harry/ginny vs harry/hermione, kataang vs zutara, tai/sora vs matt/sora, ichiruki vs ichiruki, narusaku vs sasusaku, the list goes on.
deranged yumes, hetfags and their ilk will just chalk it up as self-hating fujo behavior but it's not as if im repulsed by all M/F content, its just most of M/F stuff that fans shit out. it doesn't help that a lot of hetshipping is basically yumefagging but with extra steps.
No.3010
>>3006It depends for me, in which some cases I do like M/F if the pair is somewhat well-done in it's canon with one character I may like but otherwise hate forced M/F or even worse, genderbend M/F.
The latter somehow bothers me even more so, because it reeks more of closeted yumefagging.
There's one character in my fandom that gets paired M/F in which everybody calls him a lesbian or simply uses it to self-insert.
Piggybacking off your post though and what I mentioned earlier, I really fucking hate yumes who masquerade as fujos.
"Oh I wish that was me fucking X"/"I love XY but I wish I could have Y all to myself".
Most yumefujos I've seen like this practically use the top character as a meat dildo for their favorite bottom, and throw a tantrum when they see their (self-insert) with other ships. They don't actually care about the ship they ship, only that it's popular so they can imagine themselves as the top (sometimes bottom too)
No.3011
>>3010>I really fucking hate yumes who masquerade as fujos.NTA I hate these people too. Like I thought we were all here for voyeuristic fujo activities and playing God for our OTPs, what is happening to our people? Sure I like the characters in my ship but I don't want to hear about how you want to fuck XYZ or get fucked by him. It's no wonder why so many fics are absolute shit these days. Aside from the fact that less people are reading actual books in general, a lot of so called fujos are actually just yumes who don't care about the characters' relationship. They use one half of the ship as a stand-in for themselves. I don't hate all yumes because yumefujo hybrids who don't mix up the two together exist, but there are too many yumes who LARP as fujoshi now because their x reader/self-insert content is garbage so they have to infiltrate our spaces.
No.3012
>sir
>daddy
I hate this shit immensely, it's suddenly so ooc and ruins the whole immersion right away
No.3013
>>3012Same. On the flip side I hate 'kitten', the characters saying it never fit it. In general I dislike how almost every PWP fic turns the characters into the basic daddy dom submissive baby bottom trope with 0 care for the characters' actual personalities.
No.3014
>>3013Any kind of pet names is a minor turn off actually
>sweetheart, baby, babe etc No.3015
>>3014>>3012>>3013I'm glad to not be the only one.
Additionally, if I see "You're so good for me" in any shape or form I just close the tab. I hate that shitty wattpad ass sentence.
No.3016
>>3015Praise kink is such a shitty tag, there has to be someone getting off to it because it gets written but definitely not me.
No.3017
>>3016I like it but it has to be specific to the characters and not written in that bland-ass way. 'So pretty' or 'so good for me' or anything generic like that, nope. Some characters just obviously have one or would have one so it's fun to make them flustered. I think I tend to like the degrading praise variant more though (i.e, character being nonconned or dubconned is praised and does not have the kink, but the person praising them is getting off on it)
No.3018
>>3015>Additionally, if I see "You're so good for me" in any shape or form I just close the tab. I hate that shitty wattpad ass sentence.Absolutely no one says that irl, not even in 3dpd porn. It sounds so unnatural. I’m utterly baffled how this particular canned fanfic phrase caught on to become this generation’s “their tongues battled for dominance”. If you use that phrase, I’m assuming your literary reference pool is limited to Minecraft and K-pop RPS fic.
No.3021
Slutty ukes. They don’t need to be virginal necessarily, even if I prefer it. It’s okay if they had sex with a women or got raped at some point. But an uke should never be some sex addicted std ridden faggot.
No.3025
>>3021On that note I don't like slutty semes too. Shit, man. Stop fucking everything that moves and just love this one particular guy I'm shipping you with
No.3034
My brain is shit and when I read slutty uke I don't think "fucks many people" or anything, just that they act like a terrible tease all the time. I think I'd hate them if they did actually fuck everyone and anyone indiscriminately, but acting provocative is still pretty hot.
No.3042
>>3025I'm on the fence with this one. Obviously porn doesn't need to be realistic but I still have a hard time keeping my suspension of disbelief when someone goes to extreme lengths to have a top be a virgin before their first time with the uke but they somehow know what to do, jump straight to doing it in the butt with no hesitation, is somehow a sex god, etc.
It's funny how eastern and western fandom tend to be opposed with this, my experience is Japanese fic keeps everyone virgins unless the uke is also getting mob raped or given mob rape backstory, while fic on ao3 often throws in a line about how the characters aren't virgins, or that one of them (often the uke) is a slut who fucks randos on the regular. I'd say a happy medium is good, like anything, it depends on the character. There are characters I can't see having fucked before they meet the boyfriend I designated to them, and then there's canon sluts who would make sense to have past experience.
Also cultivation cnovels are where it goes up to eleven with guys saving themselves for 100000 years for their husbando.
No.3044
>>3042>Japanese fic keeps everyone virgins unless the uke is also getting mob raped or given mob rape backstorybased
>cultivation cnovels are where it goes up to eleven with guys saving themselves for 100000 years for their husbando.turbo fukin based
No.3048
>>3044I just wish semes were allowed to be mob rape targets more often too. Tactics was based for having the seme get whumped and perved on the most
No.3173
I wish we could get any popular homo anime that wasn't SOL and wasn't directed by Utsumi. Every popular show being so heterosexual is making me lose interest in keeping up with seasonal anime.
No.3174
Dicks that are far too big for me to be able to believe that they would ever fit in an asshole.
No.3175
>>3174I've been seeing that a lot in korean BL, it's one of the reasons why I'm not really into manhwa. I dislike big dicks in general and small penis is way too rare in BL.
No.3178
>>3174Yeah, it has to be a reasonably sized cock. Either that or the guy needs to make sure he stretches out the hole with fingers before the act, yknow? If the cock is any bigger than 6 or 7 inches I really cannot convince myself that the receiver likes it. Unless that isn't the point it's some sort of dub/noncon scenario lol
No.3244
>>3241why do you hate my retards? ablism
No.3250
>>3241Are you me? I can't stand either of these bitches.
No.3254
>>3241Who is this man?
I'm going to assume you mean the psuedo-edgy look? Maybe douchebag is the correct descriptor for this character type?
No.3257
>>3254>Who is this man? Yuri from Yarichin bitch club
>Maybe douchebag is the correct descriptor for this character type?Nah, both of them are obnoxious drooling retards.
No.3258
>>3254This guy from Yarichin Bitch Club disgusts me on a visceral level. I don't know how to describe it, other than him looking and acting like a literal drooling retard so I know he smells rancid, like saliva and vomit, saying this based on literal retards I had to deal with in school and in a former retail job. Just typing this makes me want to puke.
No.3297
>character got raped by his father as a tragic backstory
>there's no explicit scene where you see it happening
Stop baiting me.
No.3465
cuntboy. fucking hate that shit, even more when it's NOT tagged so i have to stop reading a fanfic midway because suddenly there's a pussy in there instead of a dick. God damn i'm reading m/m here i want dick in ass not this shit aieeeeeeeeeee
No.3466
>>3465I've been having that with fanart lately. Sometimes I'll see some good BL art from a new artist but then I start scrolling through their account checking the crotches to see if both guys have a dick and once in a while I'll find out one has a pussy drawn on or I'll see some post referring to pregnancy on the other guy and I'll cringe.
No.3467
>>3466nayrt SAME it feels like I'm browsing a twitter account with a loaded gun. ༼;´༎ຶ ༎ຶ༽ this is meant to be FUN
No.3468
>>3465Istg they do it so they can get more accidental kudos or higher view counts. It's not because they truly believe twansmen are real boys!, but rather because they know if they tagged appropriately, they'd get less engagement. Of course they use the tranny validation shit as the "real reason" but deep down all they crave is that sweet sweet kudos and the ultra coveted comment
No.3469
Cruel, rapey, abusive semes that are treated like hot, normal love interests. It just doesn't match. The uke falling for him and pursuing him as if he was some normal guy from a different story feels disjointed. BJ Alex was like this. If the narrator actually treated him like a psychopath, there could be some interesting, deeper layers there. BL/manhwa authors almost never possess the capacity for this.
>>3258>YBC That shit was so fucking retarded. Why did he always act like a retard? He could barely string together two words. The entire manga was a fever dream and it got animated. I don't know how it got so popular because it was so strange.
No.3470
>>3468It still gets plenty of hits when tagged for but usually from people who may not actually be in the fandom reading it for a fap. It's obviously popular enough as a kink that tons of people are writing it but the crowd you get is actually more on the het porn side for obvious reasons. I've seen writers whose profiles were het porn/'trans' porn but no m/m where both have dicks and the reason becomes pretty damn obvious no matter how much people want to swear up and down it's for rep.
No.3471
>>3470That's so weird to me, the ides of reading fanfiction from a series you aren't into for porn. How can you enjoy/be invested in something if you don't have the base series knowledge. Even if it's a pornfic I'd rather have that background.
No.3472
>>3471People with fetishes can read fandom blind easily. I've ended up skimming some fetish works (omo, feeding) because I was at "lick crumbs off the floor" levels for this ship tag I was browsing and everything was so disconnected from canon it might as well have been original work. There's really no satisfying ship dynamic to be had from them, but if it's your fetish then it's probably fine I guess.
No.3558
https://twitter.com/hiyorihomoe/status/1769793982010171643 Based Englis translation for once. They'll be bullied into changing it though. We can never have any feminine men in anything for women without people insisting they have to be a trans girl. You don't see people telling the moids that their tomboys should be men. Why does this shit keep making its way into BL and joseimuke stuff?
No.3559
>>3558I had no idea what this was and then I clicked on the link to see. The dude in the picture is supposed to me feminine to the point of being a 'tgirl'?? It literally looks like a dude.
No.3566
>>3558>You don't see people telling the moids that their tomboys should be men.Isn't that what happened with the oni girl in One piece? All the troons and troon-allied people I see online who are into One piece call that character a trans male and call people who disagree transphobic.
On the subject of Ensemble stars, I'm not familiar with that game so I'll have to google around for more info on that subject. I definitely suspect it's another case of westerners misunderstanding the okama/onee archetype, though.
No.3567
>>3566thats just gendies causing an uproar. moids dont give a shit and will coom to anything.
plus iirc the author posted yamato on a colour spread sheet of all girl characters and didnt include the okama samurai character kek
No.3568
>>3558Enstars fans emailed about this before and they didn't do shit so I doubt anything will change. Most of the people complaining are 15 year olds who barely spend any money on the game and will continue playing anyway. It's just another #BoycottGenshin situation of raging teens on Twitter
No.3716
>>3714You're right and you should say it.
This combined with the abuse of painfully discordant 3d assets is why I could never get into Korean manhwa or webtoons.
Maybe I'm just nostalgic but something about the misshapen anatomy of the 90s/early 00s often looks endearing to me. I think I'm more lenient towards them because they didn't have all the digital tools to fall back on, so the art feels more earnest and lovable even when it's ugly
No.3719
>>3714>>3716>3D background asset>traced poses>same face syndrome across all artists>a 2 minute scroll between small panelsWhat is the appeal of webtoon again
No.3720
I hate when my NOTP is the most popular ship in a fandom. Why does everyone but me have shit taste!
No.3733
>>3714Every time I read webtoons I'm just completely perplexed over how dead eyed everyone looks to the point it must be a stylistic choice and not just the lack of skill.
>>3719I can take all of those except the shitty 3D background assets. I'd rather have them draw no backgrounds at all than those badly traced flat as fuck 3D assets with shitty gradient coloring. Something about those rubs me the wrong way so bad.
No.3734
>>3733It's the opposite for me, I can understand background can be hard but if you're even going to trace the characters poses it takes my brain out of the immersion. Always hated where you could see the porn pose used, and now I can see the akward limb joint of the 3D puppet you used and the hyper realistic clothes folds popping randomly
No.3736
>>3733>Every time I read webtoons I'm just completely perplexed over how dead eyed everyone looks to the point it must be a stylistic choice and not just the lack of skill. As an artist who has tried making fully coloured comics, I feel like most of the jank, flatness and bad anatomy in webtoon style can be partly explained by the soul crushing effort it probably takes to churn out these chapters on a regular basis. There's a reason there's so many shortcuts being used, like 3D asset tracing and white space to pad out length without drawing more panels.
Even manga artists have more assistants than webtoon artists from what I know, who tend to have a separate colourist(?) and weekly manga artists are already strained despite their work being in black and white. Webtoon artists probably have it even worse and several news stories already came out about it, like that one woman who miscarried.
No.3737
>>3719Adding to this, the story is usually drawn-out with random shit thrown in to make it go on for longer than necessary. I've given up on Webtoon entirely because it's been a horrible experience without exception.
>>3736>pad out length without drawing more panelsNot an artist or particularly aware of how webcomics work, but is there a reason why the length has to be padded out at all? Wouldn't it make more sense to plan out your story in advance, and just draw the art according to that plan? I'm not trying to be ignorant or critical; I write for fun, and I wouldn't dream of showing anyone anything I'd written until I'd trimmed all of the filler and unnecessary scenes. Is it different for comics? I understand working on a tight schedule when it comes to producing the art, but it seems sensible to have the story planned before you start drawing the comic.
No.3738
>>3737They are standard guidelines, if you want to keep making money it *has* to be fully coloured, with a minimum number of pages, and of course paid for chapter so you gotta churn more content if it gets popular. It's a weird capitalism monopoly because "it's a vertical scrolling format" shouldn't have all these limitations and maybe it will evolve with time like with mangas.
No.3739
>>3737>>3738>empty lenghtWell I guess, ultimately it's selling out yourself and shit writing.
No.3740
>>3738Thank you for the explanation, nona. I probably will not enjoy the format unless it evolves, unfortunately.
No.3752
Giving male characters vaginas. I found an artist with a style I really like, but she keeps drawing stupid cunt boy stuff. Why would you ruin a perfectly good man like that. That's the best part.
No.3760
>>3714I've probably said it before somewhere but every time I see other people complain about webtoons the examples they post are like bargain bin dollar store trash that I've never seen before in my life. I read webtoons most days, and I've skimmed and dropped quite a few over the years, but I've only maybe once come across a BL one that was blatantly devoid of any story planning, and that one had art as its main draw. These soulless looking cookie cutter affairs are so weird to me, like you guys are reaching into some alt dimension and pulling back cursed tomes that only vaguely resemble real media.
My only guess is that I tend to read adaptations of webnovels and that means a story that's already had some success. Webnovels drag shit out like crazy too though, but like webtoons they know to slam a cliffhanger or hook at the end of every chapter no matter how little else happens. The originals I read I started on before people talked about webtoons and it was awkward explaining, especially because people would start screaming "it's western!!! the art style looks american!!" Times have changed since 2011 though and there's way more art styles around, and especially more ones with shiny, bright, polished coloring.
Something I fucking hate though that's invaded a couple I was reading. Some fucker released this brush that does a little squiggle with a dot on the end, usually in pink, cyan, or a light yellow. And it gets spammed on character's hair. Over and over and over. As a cheap highlight, particularly on chibis. Once you notice it you'll see it everywhere. Fuck that squiggle.
No.3763
>>3760Same. I didn't get it until I started reading just whatever random webtoon I could find, then I saw some of the really soulless stuff. But sometimes, it was just the artist being still new/amateurish, and it's satisfying to see them improve over time. I really think some of the shortcuts in webtoons that people dislike are just a byproduct of a grueling schedule. I think the best webtoons are the ones that figure out how to balance a simplified colored art style with a good story.
No.3764
>>3760AYRT and I have read a decent-ish number of Webtoons (definitely not as many as you have because I've given up on them due to lack of enjoyment), and most of them have had this style. I've taken recommendations from people and read reviews when deciding which ones to read, so it's not as if I'm hunting for ugly stuff or just randomly stumbling across things. Do you have any recommendations for ones that don't look like this and also don't pad out their plot significantly with things that don't advance the narrative? I'm happy to provide examples of Webtoons I've read, if that would help at all. I'm also okay with the art being ugly/awkward, as long as it doesn't look bland and soulless like that and the story is interesting.
No.3765
>>3760>Some fucker released this brush that does a little squiggle with a dot on the end, usually in pink, cyan, or a light yellow. And it gets spammed on character's hair. Over and over and over. As a cheap highlight, particularly on chibis. Once you notice it you'll see it everywhere. Fuck that squiggle.I'm guilty of this kek. Didn't know it was a brush though, would've made my life a lot easier.
No.3771
>>3766I have not! I'm not in love with the style (it still kind of has that look to it based on the images you posted kek), but I'm willing to overlook it if the plot is good. I'll give it a shot, at least, because the premise sounds interesting. Regardless of if I enjoy it, I appreciate that you recommended something!
No.3772
>>3771I think it's a lot better than what most webtoons have to offer in terms of art, so if this doesn't satisfy you, it really might just not be the medium for you (at least not yet), because the tight turnaround demands an inhuman speed that is pretty hard to make look detailed. I like the colored aspect of webtoons, but until they have more than a week to get out chapters and/or more helpers, it'll probably stay this way. Sorry nona, hope you can at least get something from it. The only webtoon that has art and plot that I find genuinely outstanding is a GL ("I love Amy"), but maybe someday there'll be better options.
No.4067
Not 100% hate but tired of the confession/kiss/sex while drunk trope, getting sexual assaulted by someone and getting saved by some guy and they end up together trope, and the worst one that I actually hate is when they bring up being gay and homophobia, especially when one or the both of them is like "I'm sooo dirty and nasty for this wuh wuh" so annoying just take the dick already.
No.4068
>>4067Oh no! I'm an absolute sucker for angst and repression so internalized homophobia is my yaoi lifeblood.
What part in particular don't you like? Is it just unrealistic to you, or are you just eager to get to the porn?
No.4069
>>4068Feels a bit preachy and sjw-y. It just feels out of place. When I read yaoi, I imagine that it's by default a world where being gay is a norm or no one actually cares about, so the characters never bring it up other than teasing a character for finally dating another character he obviously had a crush on, or when a male characters breaks up with a gf because he realized he's gay and wants to be with the guy he likes. But the "woe is me I'm gay wish I was normal ?" and "are you judging me for being gay??!!! I'm normal!!!1!1! It's normal to be gay!!! You're homophobic!!!" Kind of shit is so annoying, it feels like I'm reading twitter fights rather than a yaoi manga. It can be handled probably though like in Here U Are.
No.4092
>>4070I agree, but only when it's not preachy as the other nona said
It depends on if the taboo oppressive stuff actually serves the story or if it's just an excuse for the artist to force drama and/or progressivism
I like the "homophobia doesn't exist" stories too, it really just boils down to good writing lol
No.4162
>>4161Man nonna, you and me are opposites I like arm and leg hair but armpit and pubic hair gives me the heebie jeebies. Pubic hair in particular makes me tab right out of yaoi absolutely gross detail when oral is happening.
No.4163
>>4162Arm hair I can can actually do sometimes as well! It really is just leg hair that messes me up the hardest, it's funny. Armpit hair I'll say is a very close 'Jesus no thanks' and my threshold for tolerance of it isn't that strong, either, bordering on pure dislike.
>when oral is happeningNo, legit it can even gross me out sometimes, especially when it's stuff like
hair getting stuck in teeth. Just, eugh.
No.4164
>>4161Pubes are okay if they're trim but I absolutely hate all other body hair. So disgusting.
>>4162Good point. I never thought of that. I'd like to continue not thinking of that. Ew.
No.4165
For me, whether I like body hair or not depends a lot on the context, strangely enough. If they're having sex, any amount of hair grosses me out, but if it's just fluff content, hair starts to look very charming. For example, I think cuddling looks extra cute and comfy with chest hair and beard.
No.4166
I think leg/pubic/arm hair is fine as long as it actually suits the character and doesn't go overboard, if they give him a full on bush or go overboard with body hair it grosses me out the second image on
>>4161 has the right idea imo, likes it's there but not hugely overboard and having it on a Twink adds a bit of contrast in just the right way
No.4167
>>4161I think it's cute on Ronald but hate it when fanart gets too off rails for what is believable levels of bodyhair on an anime twink/twunk.
No.4185
It's confirmed now after years of listening to random people and friends' recommendations when it comes to BL manga and just manga/anime in general and buying books I sold later because they disappointed me, I find wholesome, light-hearted romance or slice of life series boring as fuck. I think in terms of BL I only like actually funny comedy or melodramatic or problematic stories. If it's about "character A meets character B and there's some mild misunderstanding that gets resolved in less than one chapter, and they kiss and hug once" then I don't give a shit unless the manga is long enough to show me more than that or has a particular setting or plot. Which is almost never the case with BL. The only one that fits that description that I really like is Boku no Omawari-san just on top of my head but even then it's 3 volumes long and should have been longer and it has really hot guys that are an actually cute couple.
When I say it doesn't apply just to BL it's because of FOTM series where there's one (1) repetitive joke applied to the whole series that everyone shills online, like with the Yakuza househusband or Wotakoi. If it were the exact same manga but with the yakuza husband dating a hot salaryman instead I'd be equally bored. If Wotakoi were the exact same but only with gay couples I'd also be too bored to read the whole thing, etc.
No.4186
>I find wholesome, light-hearted romance or slice of life series boring as fuck. I think in terms of BL I only like actually funny comedy or melodramatic or problematic stories.
Honestly, same. My enjoyment of BL stories is directly proportional to the number of warcrimes depicted on it.
No.4187
>>4186Thirding. If they're happy, there's just no story. Also can't take established relationship for the same reason
No.4188
>>4187Yes, it's either that there's no story or the story is completed in the first chapter so the rest is more of the same cutesy shit. I have another example in mind now, from a BL mangaka. Lala no Kekkon (BL) has an actual plot regardless of how good or bad it is while My Genderless Boyfriend (het pairing) by the same mangaka is about a straight adult couple that doesn't even look or act like a couple because they never do anything besides giving each other compliments, and blushing in front of each other as if they're not already married. The plot is just "my husband is a cute girly looking model and I'm his biggest fangirl" but it bored me before I finished the first volume. Since that mangaka already mostly draws BL I was wondering if I'd like it more if My Genderless Boyfriend were a BL about some grown salaryman saying his trap bf is cute over and over again but I think I would not be able to read the whole first volume either because nothing fucking happens!
No.4189
>>4186agreed however also imo, in order for light hearted stories to work they have to have angst/drama to lead up towards the light heartedness so it feels more satisfactory and justified. otherwise just fluff is boring and not engaging enough to read through.
No.4190
>>4185I just read/watch stuff to my actual tastes and hope that if I do get a brainworm fandom has me covered. "It's got canon homo" has never been something that could sell me by itself. Sometimes I feel like I'm not a "real" fujo because my original BL consumption has historically been very low.
Within the last few years a few fujos I follow for similar fandom tastes have been fawning over BL manwha and when I give them a whirl my reaction is always just like "girl…" (-_-;)・・・
No.4191
>>4190i relate too nona haha! whenever fujos joke about old school yaoi or just original BL in general I find it hard to relate since Im usually on the shipping side of fujo brainworms; but even then i dont have much ships/OTPs and usually just bicycle around 1 character.
No.4192
>>4190Personally, having had my fujo awakening long ago, I now think BL for the most part is kinda meh. It excels at no particular thing. The canon gives you a good story, setting and compelling characters. Fanfic and doujins (try to) give you good erotic tension and sex without needing to hold back for commercial reasons, and it works because canon has established good groundwork for this. BL tries to do both from scratch and usually half-asses both. There's not so much pressure on BL authors either. Shit sells regardless, unlike canon.
Here's a test: in BL, are the story or characters good enough to warrant fanwork if the guys DIDN'T get together? Can you imagine someone going out of their way to make it happen for these two guys? 99% no.
No.4193
>>4190I can relate on the low BL consumption, though sometimes reading discussion I realize I do read BL fairly regularly, just that my preference for supernatural and fantasy genres means I'm always more interested in other things. When I see a supernatural BL I'll grab at it, but you get a fair number of short works where the author doesn't have much experience making use of their setting while creating a relationship, keeps it very limited in scope which doesn't complement the themes, and ultimately abandons building on one concept for another.
Thankfully I have an overactive imagination and not only can I imagine my own fantasy scenarios for ships in non homo content, I can read a BL that disappoints me and run with the thing I feel it could have made better use of. There's no better lullaby than "this fugitive situation could have had higher stakes and more restraints. And also hand feeding".
No.4194
>>4192That's a very good question, I can think of a few that I would, and in fact a few where the couple not getting together for a long ass time was the central cliche conflict. I can't tell if that's because it's more common than this rhetoric makes it sound or just because we, as readers, are purposefully picking out the ones that are like that and discarding and forgetting the ones that are too plain. I simultaneously feel there's fucking shelves and shelves of boring ass BL I wouldn't have the energy to read, and that BL is alright actually because I've personally been reading a few I enjoyed and would vouch for.
Thinking with my fingers so bear with me. We need to start thinking of it like any other genre category. When we were younger we could think all BL was "for us" because we only saw a select few and it was exciting enough just to have boy on boy content, now we have access to a broader scope it's apparent there's a shitload of mild romances aimed at an audience who don't want anything more specific than "two school boys have feelings and then kiss". In all other demographics and genres of manga I can easily grasp that what I want is more specific than "any action shounen that exists", but because I'm a fujoshi I approach BL like I'm supposed to like the whole concept and therefore everything. Which is plainly stupid, but I still feel guilty that I only like the specific things I like.
I think there's also an issue of romance not being everyone's genre. As in the overarching genre tropes of romance, as opposed to a romantic relationship appearing within a story. Focus on romance as the center of a story means interpersonal drama, introspection, cutesy shit, raunchy shit, and not necessarily anything else. Tons of people are not into romance fiction but are into making Cloud and Sephiroth fuck after tearing their clothes off with blade edges. It's just different genre approaches. The "BL" tag doesn't always mean it's foremost a romance piece, it could be something else with a romance in it because it's primarily an indication of intended gay. Nona wants a BL tragedy drama not the standard BL romance. Still people don't always differentiate these when tagging or describing so you have to read the blurb and stare at the cover and decide "is one of these boys gonna attempt suicide or just cry a lot". That to me is why some people get frustrated more than others, because unlike me they can't just go "the guy on the cover has a tail so this'll be some kind of fantasy", they have to read on and find out it's not what they were looking for after all. Even then I get caught out lately by omegaverse titles putting kemonomimi on the cover when it's nowhere in the book! Stop titling your BL "gambling on the fox's smile" when there's no fox boy in it! False advertising! What was I talking about again?
No.4195
>>4194Youre right on the money, nonna. At the end of the day BL is just another sub genre of romance. Now, not every BL falls in the romance genre but the majority of them do. Romance is a huge seller so even mediocore BLs manage to get published so long as they meet the minimum requirements set by the genre. There's an audience for mediocrity and it's an audience that's willing to pay.
No.4196
>it's a 22 chapters fic
>by chapter 5 they're already boyfriends with pet names, had a big fight and any hidden angtsy backstory is actually irrelevant
No.4197
>>4196This, and then the remaining 20 chapters are nothing but porn.
If you are going to have then hook up early on you better have an actual external conflict and plot, otherwise I have no interest in reading it.
No.4198
If you write fanfiction and all your characters speak straight out of a porno, I wish you a very die
No.4199
>>4198when the author writes down the moaning effects too as dialogue……….. i also wish a double die
No.4200
>>4199I kinda don't mind moaning sfx maybe because I'm used to reading them on VNs, but I do dislike excessive use of it. Even more so if it's coupled with the porno dialogue too.
No.4398
>>4392>insulting users over shotaYou're being insulted for the schizo claims, not the pedo fetish
>>4394I hope you know those are yume territory first of all… The twst fandom has always been yumes mainly. Fujos like the little mermaid dorm, trey clover, leona kingscholar, and idia shroud, not the 7 dwarves kek. Sebastian yumes and nostalgiafags were the only ones who cared about the new black butler season. Twst has lost popularity rapidly in the last few years, those hoyoverse games, hypmic, enstars, fgo, and prosekai all crush it. These examples suck.
No.4400
>>4398Ntayrt but I feel like Elusive Samurai has been popular enough to show that shota is still fairly strong, at least in Japan.
>inb4 all elusive Samurai likes are male shotafags.I don't think it's just men.
No.4402
>>4399I know it has one but that nona was insinuating that it was popular because shota which is a flat out lie. Fujos love porn of the sea creatures, leona, and idia, not ortho lol. But hypmic is seriously popular, but it's cringe so it didn't take off outside of jp.
>>4400https://www.pixiv.net/en/tags/%E5%8C%97%E6%9D%A1%E6%99%82%E8%A1%8C(%E9%80%83%E3%81%92%E4%B8%8A%E6%89%8B%E3%81%AE%E8%8B%A5%E5%90%9B)Looking at his pixiv tag, I think most of them are men. He's the new femboy of the month like astolfo, venti, felix, haka doll, and the like, most art of him is self insert femboy porn. There are surely some fujos who like him too, but there are fujos who like astolfo.
No.4403
>>4398>those hoyoverse gamesI don't play gacha but the protagonist in genshin is literally a shota character kek.
>prosekai Len is a shota.
>>4402>not ortho lolWasn't talking about him, I meant these three dudes.
No.4404
>>4398>enstarsthe game that frequently panders to shotacons…? i’m sorry that your bodily fluids fetish is more niche than one of the oldest bl tropes but i wish you wouldn’t call the users here pedos. you clearly don’t care about actual pedophiles and their victims and only use that word as a gotcha to own the "edgy pedofags"
No.4407
>>4404The user calling us pedos are unironically using language that the moids that keep raiding us use
No.4409
>>4402What? How can you tell the difference between a male and female artist? Is there a biology class that teaches this?
No.4411
>>4409Not that anon but there are different vibes that are hard to describe but you just innately know.
Though I've personally been completely blind-sided by artists, like a artist I assumed was a man because their art had a "bara vibe" to it, but it was just a woman who liked muscular men. I would say shota leans male, but clearly there are lots of women into it otherwise shit like onee-shota or yaoi in the vein of Black Butler wouldn't be popular. Shit like South Park has a massive female fujo audience here and in Japan and no men like it that way at a large scale. I don't even know how this is a big debate.
No.4412
>>4411I'd say for Elusive Samurai it's about half and half.
Like pic related, does it seem like a guy drew it or a woman?
No.4414
>>4412For that one I would guess woman personally just based on the face. Pic rel would be my guess for a man just searching the tag on Danbooru without clicking on any of the other artists works. I'm not saying I hate pic rel or you image, but I do think there is a different tone.
And yeah the Samurai show seems to be drawing a large crowd of both, I need to check it out at some point I love the tone I've seen from clips of it.
No.4415
>>4409After reading manga and doujin for a long time you start to notice slight differences.
Of course most artists have their unique take, but there are definitely more similiarities between bara and hentai, than between bara and bl, just like bl in all and all is more similiar to erotic shoujo and dark shojo
No.4416
>>4403>lenLen isnt in any of the popular prosekai ships… its the bishie human idols
>these three dudesThey arent popular in ships either… the bishies are
>the protagonist in genshin is literally a shota character…
>I don't play gachaThought so. It's bold of you to act like a knowitall about gacha and admit you never played one in the same post. What series do you like? You're way out of touch with the mainstream. After all this pretending that shota is still relevant to normie fujos, you'll have to go back to bitching about the current lack of female (gay)shota creators and feel like you were born in the wrong generation. Idgaf what you like but fr why lie about what other people do, are you trying to manifest?
>>4404>bodily fluids fetishI don't have one? Keep up if you have to butt in. What fetish is more common isn't what we're talking about, it's shota being unpopular with fujos.
No.4417
Pedochans will call botw link a shota for being short and try to convince everyone who likes him that they're pedochans too. Is it an attempt to normalize it? I don't involve myselt in proanti wars, I feel like I'm going crazy. Just like what you like and don't be crazy about it.
No.4418
>pedochans
Ffs, really?
Anyway, imo it's a bit narcissistic to go "mainstream jap fujos like this and hate that " when pretty sure most here can't read jap to begin with.
Instead of saying what the trends "totally" are, at least try and talk about what is actually popular, ships and whatnot. You know, the things fujos look at. Characters, chemistry, ships, istead of these middle school insults. Just makes it seem like the "fujo" is just a label to pretend weeb.
Right now, guess that'd be stuff like Windbreaker?
No.4423
>>4188>Lala no Kekkon (BL) has an actual plot regardless of how good or bad it is while My Genderless Boyfriend (het pairing) by the same mangaka is about a straight adult couple that doesn't even look or act like a couple because they never do anything besides giving each other compliments, and blushing in front of each other as if they're not already married. Which is so baffling because LnK is one of my favourite BLs but I seriously feel like peoples' brains just short circuit when they have to write a straight romance. Everything turns into a tropey, uninteresting, predictable mess. I guess it's because heteronormative expectations regarding dating and relationships are rooted in deep and it's hard to even recognize those patterns and be made aware of them so you could work on unlearning it. And I also think it's because so many people just utterly suck when it comes to writing female characters (including other women) because they're too concerned with observing them through a man's eyes to make them believable and enjoyable.
>>4192I understand what you mean, but seriously though, my opinion is that there are tons of people with great original BL ideas but they never get it out there. As an artist myself I have multiple story and character heavy plotlines for original BL that doesn't just focus on romance, but I know I wouldn't get them published (or grab peoples' attention because I'm not Japanese). Same sex couples are still a big taboo in mainstream media and nobody wants to be labeled just as "that gay thing" which featuring them would net a series.
No.4470
>>4423The problem is that most people (including most women) write women just as "women", but men as characters together with all the variety that a character can have, they're not limited by gender roles.
The womanhood is almost always the entire being of the female character, whereas a man can be Darth Vader, a funny politician with anger issues, a serial killer, a volcel detective or a middle aged, tired smoker. In most media women are limited to like three stereotypes and the essence of all of them is to please the het audience. It's even worse with anime/manga since most of the audience here are insecure otaku that desire their devote housewife or yumes that want their super feminine princess. The rest are usually just super pretty smiling side girls.
The coolest female characters always come from female shounen and seinen mangaka IMO (see Dorohedoro, Pandora Hearts or Houseki no Kuni for example) and a handful of probably bisexual men or men that are too autistically obsessed with the topic, setting or theme they write about to waifu-shill (Golden Kamuy, Nami yo Kiitekure, Made in Abyss, Neuro etc.).
No.4496
No matter why I go, there's no western place that just talks about bl, it always ends up having to mention the moral/political justification behind bl and misogyny and other shit, it's never just "I like bl and want to talk about it".
Most of the conversation ends up with that and rarely do people actually talk about what they're watching and why they like it, the chemistry, any surprises, it's all just "fujos must like this because some dumbfuck reason going on in their brains" and "fujos actually like it for these dumbfuck reasons going on in their brains".
No.4497
>>4496>it's all just "fujos must like this because some dumbfuck reason going on in their brains" and "fujos actually like it for these dumbfuck reasons going on in their brains".Cuckold behavior. I wonder if yumes go through this SJW cope to justify their existence too or if they managed to avoid it because they didn't have to go through years long muh fetishization and objectification campagins.
No.4500
>>4496Think it's still seen as deviant behavior, whereas men fapping to all kinds of porn and fanservice is as normal as the coomer content that panders them. Well, I want FUJO coomer content. I hate the interpretations people come up with like fujos being cucks or oversexualing things. Cucks imply that I wanted to marry the character in the first place but I don't. The men are hot as shit and I want to see them blush, bond or moan but I want it to happen with someone they have a cool relationship with, someone from their own world. Now if that someone is also hot it's a double win. It's literally just this.
And the oversexualising angers me the most because the only reason for why fujos sexualise things is because we don't get much content served, so we have to create the hot shit ourselves. And if a series actually has a gay scene where dudes are touching each other, blushing or saying sweet things then it's the series sexualising them not me. I just enjoy it, same as every otaku enjoys the 30 potential waifus every anime season presents him.
No.4503
>>4500>Well, I want FUJO coomer content.I've lost count of the number of times I've read wildly inaccurate descriptions of what I want as a fujo. Two hot men doing lewd things together so that I can coom is all I want.
No.4505
>>4503I think that many cannot grasp that some enjoy ships without inserting someone self into it. This is where the wild theories come from. To them characters that aren't canonically married or at least interested in the MC aren't for lewd, especially not men.
Hell this reminds of angry users attacking an artist I know for drawing gay. She is a fujo, but the joke is that she just drew single sexy male characters she liked. No other dude in sight, just one guy she likes looking hot, being naked or doing something lewd.
It's interesting that they look at this and are incapable of thinking anything but "gay content for gays" and never once remember that women exist and that they enjoy fiction too. That it's maybe just women making things for women. You have so many claiming lesbianism didn't exist for real but are then baffled when they realize that women are into fictional men and not the tit monsters they like.
No.4506
>>4500>fujos being cucks It's a moid-tier understanding of women. Men get cuck fetishes from cooming (god knows why), i don't see voyeurism doing that to fujos. Like i don't know a single case of fujo-to-cuckquean pipeline, it's a cynical argument
>oversexualizingSo many people have a disgust response to female sexuality, it's irritating.
No.4538
>>4505>You have so many claiming lesbianism didn't exist for real but are then baffled when they realize that women are into fictional men and not the tit monsters they like.You don't get it, they want women to like women so they can live out their threesome fantasy instead of realizing women have desires independent from them. Once they express real attraction to women or have higher standards when it comes to men is when they start having a fit. Women can't be people, they're objects to be screwed and tampered with, they can't have their own thoughts, feelings, and aspirations that's a male thing. By loving BL, it implies the women has no to need to obey society's whims and forges her own desires which is bad for the man because it means she won't settle for less. BL teaches women they have options instead of having to put up with mediocrity.
No.4574
>>4538Yeah I believe that the aversion against fujo pandering is 50% about being angry when they realise that they aren't the sole target fanbase in the world and that women exist and have hobbies as well (maybe even the same as them) and 50% envy and insecurity because fujo pandering and success means that many women like 2D men that are hotter and better than them. If a woman doesn't want a fat depressed NEET she is a superficial whore but then the very same dude will most likely shit on every woman that doesn't act and look like their imaginary tradwife with D+ cup or call her a "man" and seethe about wokeness or something.
No.4699
That conversation in the stupid yaoi memes thread made me realise that I can get pretty 'shallow' with my preferences cause on principle I'll just dislike a shorter guy topping a larger guy cause I don't find it aesthetically pleasing. Like with Galo and Lio from Promare, for instance. Or with Izuminokami Kanesada and Horikawa Kunihiro from Touken ranbu. I don't consider my top/bottom preference with them to be personality related but I simply think it looks goofy for a small and slender guy to top a guy who's bigger than him.
No.4702
>>4699kek im the opposite where i enjoy a smaller guy topping just because it changes perceived dynamics. if its the usual large top/small bottom its alright but I do like something goofy to spice things up a bit.
No.4710
>>4699I've seen people try to make Kane-san top and it does not look right. He's a lies there and doesn't know what to do with his hands service top at best. Horikawa has to fluff him either way.
No.4713
>>4699Don't let the smug smaller top propaganda get to your feelings, anon. You're not "shallow" for having a preference. I will always prefer bigger top&smaller bottom and no matter how much people scream and screech about muh "heteronormative basic bitch standards" I won't budge on it.
>I simply think it looks goofy for a small and slender guy to top a guy who's bigger than him.This. All the power to the people who like it, but I personally find it too goofy and contrarian-tasting to enjoy.
No.4715
>>4713Nta but same, it looks goofy most of the time. The only time I can accept it is in very specific scenarios where the seme is a very intense service top and will bottom for the uke occasionally but it has to be done right.
No.4716
>>4699I think the smaller one topping is fine if it suits his personality, if he's a lot more dominant and forceful in canon than the bigger one it usually makes sense to me, the idea of the bigger one pinning the smaller one down, especially if he's usually more dominant, is very appealing though
No.4717
>>4716Yeah if its like a dumb oaf/small angry man it makes sense. You see that a lot in villain duos or hero/criminal pairs. For me personality in this regard matters, that being said I agree it can be goofy visually. Maybe in a rape scenario the bigger one can be tied down because the smaller guy knows he can't forcibly dominate. Or it can be a weird threesome where the bigger one is held down by another party so the smaller guy can top an unwilling big uke.
No.4723
I hate how priest stories never properly capitalize on the angst inherent to that dynamic. There's so much potential when one of the guys is a priest, and yet, the writers seem to always disappoint me. Like, why even make one of the characters a priest if he's not going to feel any form of religious guilt? Half the time, it feels like you could replace him with any other job in uniform, especially one that doesn't have celibacy as part of the job description. It's so frustrating when you feel like the priest character's internal conflict wouldn't change if he were a cop or something instead.
No.4724
>>4723If Catholic priest, yes, but there are some with no taboos towards sex, like Shinto priests. (And Buddhist priests in Japan have a long history with boys and male prostitutes…)
No.4725
>>4724AYRT and I was referring to Catholic specifically, sorry if that was unclear. I had just read a manga about a Catholic priest and was frustrated when I made the post kek.
No.4726
>>4724Buddhist clergy members are supposed to take a vow of celibacy, but I don't think a Japanese author would make much angst about it if they have such a history with prostitutes. But yeah Taoism and Shintoism would be pretty boring in terms of angst. If you really wanted angst and taboo, Islam would be the choice, but I think their fashion is ugly compared to Catholic Priests.
No.4728
>>4726Which is a shame because Middle Eastern style clothes that aren't rooted in religion are quite sexy imo
No.4730
Our new bump limit is 500 posts! Locking this thread and the others that have surpassed the new limit, please feel free to make a new one to continue the conversation.