/ffs/ - Fujo Fandom Sperging

>>4190
i relate too nona haha! whenever fujos joke about old school yaoi or just original BL in general I find it hard to relate since Im usually on the shipping side of fujo brainworms; but even then i dont have much ships/OTPs and usually just bicycle around 1 character.

>>4190
Personally, having had my fujo awakening long ago, I now think BL for the most part is kinda meh. It excels at no particular thing. The canon gives you a good story, setting and compelling characters. Fanfic and doujins (try to) give you good erotic tension and sex without needing to hold back for commercial reasons, and it works because canon has established good groundwork for this. BL tries to do both from scratch and usually half-asses both. There's not so much pressure on BL authors either. Shit sells regardless, unlike canon.

Here's a test: in BL, are the story or characters good enough to warrant fanwork if the guys DIDN'T get together? Can you imagine someone going out of their way to make it happen for these two guys? 99% no.

>>4190
I can relate on the low BL consumption, though sometimes reading discussion I realize I do read BL fairly regularly, just that my preference for supernatural and fantasy genres means I'm always more interested in other things. When I see a supernatural BL I'll grab at it, but you get a fair number of short works where the author doesn't have much experience making use of their setting while creating a relationship, keeps it very limited in scope which doesn't complement the themes, and ultimately abandons building on one concept for another.

Thankfully I have an overactive imagination and not only can I imagine my own fantasy scenarios for ships in non homo content, I can read a BL that disappoints me and run with the thing I feel it could have made better use of. There's no better lullaby than "this fugitive situation could have had higher stakes and more restraints. And also hand feeding".

>>4192
That's a very good question, I can think of a few that I would, and in fact a few where the couple not getting together for a long ass time was the central cliche conflict. I can't tell if that's because it's more common than this rhetoric makes it sound or just because we, as readers, are purposefully picking out the ones that are like that and discarding and forgetting the ones that are too plain. I simultaneously feel there's fucking shelves and shelves of boring ass BL I wouldn't have the energy to read, and that BL is alright actually because I've personally been reading a few I enjoyed and would vouch for.

Thinking with my fingers so bear with me. We need to start thinking of it like any other genre category. When we were younger we could think all BL was "for us" because we only saw a select few and it was exciting enough just to have boy on boy content, now we have access to a broader scope it's apparent there's a shitload of mild romances aimed at an audience who don't want anything more specific than "two school boys have feelings and then kiss". In all other demographics and genres of manga I can easily grasp that what I want is more specific than "any action shounen that exists", but because I'm a fujoshi I approach BL like I'm supposed to like the whole concept and therefore everything. Which is plainly stupid, but I still feel guilty that I only like the specific things I like.

I think there's also an issue of romance not being everyone's genre. As in the overarching genre tropes of romance, as opposed to a romantic relationship appearing within a story. Focus on romance as the center of a story means interpersonal drama, introspection, cutesy shit, raunchy shit, and not necessarily anything else. Tons of people are not into romance fiction but are into making Cloud and Sephiroth fuck after tearing their clothes off with blade edges. It's just different genre approaches. The "BL" tag doesn't always mean it's foremost a romance piece, it could be something else with a romance in it because it's primarily an indication of intended gay. Nona wants a BL tragedy drama not the standard BL romance. Still people don't always differentiate these when tagging or describing so you have to read the blurb and stare at the cover and decide "is one of these boys gonna attempt suicide or just cry a lot". That to me is why some people get frustrated more than others, because unlike me they can't just go "the guy on the cover has a tail so this'll be some kind of fantasy", they have to read on and find out it's not what they were looking for after all. Even then I get caught out lately by omegaverse titles putting kemonomimi on the cover when it's nowhere in the book! Stop titling your BL "gambling on the fox's smile" when there's no fox boy in it! False advertising! What was I talking about again?

>>4194
Youre right on the money, nonna. At the end of the day BL is just another sub genre of romance. Now, not every BL falls in the romance genre but the majority of them do. Romance is a huge seller so even mediocore BLs manage to get published so long as they meet the minimum requirements set by the genre. There's an audience for mediocrity and it's an audience that's willing to pay.

>>4196
This, and then the remaining 20 chapters are nothing but porn.

If you are going to have then hook up early on you better have an actual external conflict and plot, otherwise I have no interest in reading it.

If you write fanfiction and all your characters speak straight out of a porno, I wish you a very die

>>4198
when the author writes down the moaning effects too as dialogue……….. i also wish a double die

>>4199
I kinda don't mind moaning sfx maybe because I'm used to reading them on VNs, but I do dislike excessive use of it. Even more so if it's coupled with the porno dialogue too.

>>4392
>insulting users over shota
You're being insulted for the schizo claims, not the pedo fetish
>>4394
I hope you know those are yume territory first of all… The twst fandom has always been yumes mainly. Fujos like the little mermaid dorm, trey clover, leona kingscholar, and idia shroud, not the 7 dwarves kek. Sebastian yumes and nostalgiafags were the only ones who cared about the new black butler season. Twst has lost popularity rapidly in the last few years, those hoyoverse games, hypmic, enstars, fgo, and prosekai all crush it. These examples suck.

>>4398
Nah Twst 100% has a yaoi fanbase though its actually very incest heavy imo mainly due to as you said the Little Mermaid eels. Is Hypmic really that popular? I actually don't see a lot of art of it compared to Twst. Fgo and Hoyo are the dominant gacha games right now though I agree with that though I only consider FGO good yaoi material.

>>4398
Ntayrt but I feel like Elusive Samurai has been popular enough to show that shota is still fairly strong, at least in Japan.
>inb4 all elusive Samurai likes are male shotafags.
I don't think it's just men.

>>4399
I know it has one but that nona was insinuating that it was popular because shota which is a flat out lie. Fujos love porn of the sea creatures, leona, and idia, not ortho lol. But hypmic is seriously popular, but it's cringe so it didn't take off outside of jp.
>>4400
https://www.pixiv.net/en/tags/%E5%8C%97%E6%9D%A1%E6%99%82%E8%A1%8C(%E9%80%83%E3%81%92%E4%B8%8A%E6%89%8B%E3%81%AE%E8%8B%A5%E5%90%9B)
Looking at his pixiv tag, I think most of them are men. He's the new femboy of the month like astolfo, venti, felix, haka doll, and the like, most art of him is self insert femboy porn. There are surely some fujos who like him too, but there are fujos who like astolfo.

>>4398
>those hoyoverse games
I don't play gacha but the protagonist in genshin is literally a shota character kek.
>prosekai
Len is a shota.
>>4402
>not ortho lol
Wasn't talking about him, I meant these three dudes.

>>4398
>enstars
the game that frequently panders to shotacons…? i’m sorry that your bodily fluids fetish is more niche than one of the oldest bl tropes but i wish you wouldn’t call the users here pedos. you clearly don’t care about actual pedophiles and their victims and only use that word as a gotcha to own the "edgy pedofags"

>>4404
The user calling us pedos are unironically using language that the moids that keep raiding us use

>>4402
What? How can you tell the difference between a male and female artist? Is there a biology class that teaches this?

>>4409
Not that anon but there are different vibes that are hard to describe but you just innately know.

Though I've personally been completely blind-sided by artists, like a artist I assumed was a man because their art had a "bara vibe" to it, but it was just a woman who liked muscular men. I would say shota leans male, but clearly there are lots of women into it otherwise shit like onee-shota or yaoi in the vein of Black Butler wouldn't be popular. Shit like South Park has a massive female fujo audience here and in Japan and no men like it that way at a large scale. I don't even know how this is a big debate.

>>4411
I'd say for Elusive Samurai it's about half and half.
Like pic related, does it seem like a guy drew it or a woman?

>>4412
For that one I would guess woman personally just based on the face. Pic rel would be my guess for a man just searching the tag on Danbooru without clicking on any of the other artists works. I'm not saying I hate pic rel or you image, but I do think there is a different tone.

And yeah the Samurai show seems to be drawing a large crowd of both, I need to check it out at some point I love the tone I've seen from clips of it.

>>4409
After reading manga and doujin for a long time you start to notice slight differences.
Of course most artists have their unique take, but there are definitely more similiarities between bara and hentai, than between bara and bl, just like bl in all and all is more similiar to erotic shoujo and dark shojo

>>4403
>len
Len isnt in any of the popular prosekai ships… its the bishie human idols
>these three dudes
They arent popular in ships either… the bishies are
>the protagonist in genshin is literally a shota character
…
>I don't play gacha
Thought so. It's bold of you to act like a knowitall about gacha and admit you never played one in the same post. What series do you like? You're way out of touch with the mainstream. After all this pretending that shota is still relevant to normie fujos, you'll have to go back to bitching about the current lack of female (gay)shota creators and feel like you were born in the wrong generation. Idgaf what you like but fr why lie about what other people do, are you trying to manifest?
>>4404
>bodily fluids fetish
I don't have one? Keep up if you have to butt in. What fetish is more common isn't what we're talking about, it's shota being unpopular with fujos.

Pedochans will call botw link a shota for being short and try to convince everyone who likes him that they're pedochans too. Is it an attempt to normalize it? I don't involve myselt in proanti wars, I feel like I'm going crazy. Just like what you like and don't be crazy about it.

>pedochans
Ffs, really?
Anyway, imo it's a bit narcissistic to go "mainstream jap fujos like this and hate that " when pretty sure most here can't read jap to begin with.
Instead of saying what the trends "totally" are, at least try and talk about what is actually popular, ships and whatnot. You know, the things fujos look at. Characters, chemistry, ships, istead of these middle school insults. Just makes it seem like the "fujo" is just a label to pretend weeb.
Right now, guess that'd be stuff like Windbreaker?

>>4417
This has been temp banned for insinuating others are pedos and doing nothing but arguing since they've arrived. Please don't engage with their nonsense anymore.

>>4188
>Lala no Kekkon (BL) has an actual plot regardless of how good or bad it is while My Genderless Boyfriend (het pairing) by the same mangaka is about a straight adult couple that doesn't even look or act like a couple because they never do anything besides giving each other compliments, and blushing in front of each other as if they're not already married.
Which is so baffling because LnK is one of my favourite BLs but I seriously feel like peoples' brains just short circuit when they have to write a straight romance. Everything turns into a tropey, uninteresting, predictable mess. I guess it's because heteronormative expectations regarding dating and relationships are rooted in deep and it's hard to even recognize those patterns and be made aware of them so you could work on unlearning it. And I also think it's because so many people just utterly suck when it comes to writing female characters (including other women) because they're too concerned with observing them through a man's eyes to make them believable and enjoyable.

>>4192
I understand what you mean, but seriously though, my opinion is that there are tons of people with great original BL ideas but they never get it out there. As an artist myself I have multiple story and character heavy plotlines for original BL that doesn't just focus on romance, but I know I wouldn't get them published (or grab peoples' attention because I'm not Japanese). Same sex couples are still a big taboo in mainstream media and nobody wants to be labeled just as "that gay thing" which featuring them would net a series.

>>4423
The problem is that most people (including most women) write women just as "women", but men as characters together with all the variety that a character can have, they're not limited by gender roles.
The womanhood is almost always the entire being of the female character, whereas a man can be Darth Vader, a funny politician with anger issues, a serial killer, a volcel detective or a middle aged, tired smoker. In most media women are limited to like three stereotypes and the essence of all of them is to please the het audience. It's even worse with anime/manga since most of the audience here are insecure otaku that desire their devote housewife or yumes that want their super feminine princess. The rest are usually just super pretty smiling side girls.

The coolest female characters always come from female shounen and seinen mangaka IMO (see Dorohedoro, Pandora Hearts or Houseki no Kuni for example) and a handful of probably bisexual men or men that are too autistically obsessed with the topic, setting or theme they write about to waifu-shill (Golden Kamuy, Nami yo Kiitekure, Made in Abyss, Neuro etc.).

No matter why I go, there's no western place that just talks about bl, it always ends up having to mention the moral/political justification behind bl and misogyny and other shit, it's never just "I like bl and want to talk about it".
Most of the conversation ends up with that and rarely do people actually talk about what they're watching and why they like it, the chemistry, any surprises, it's all just "fujos must like this because some dumbfuck reason going on in their brains" and "fujos actually like it for these dumbfuck reasons going on in their brains".

>>4496
>it's all just "fujos must like this because some dumbfuck reason going on in their brains" and "fujos actually like it for these dumbfuck reasons going on in their brains".
Cuckold behavior. I wonder if yumes go through this SJW cope to justify their existence too or if they managed to avoid it because they didn't have to go through years long muh fetishization and objectification campagins.

>>4496
Think it's still seen as deviant behavior, whereas men fapping to all kinds of porn and fanservice is as normal as the coomer content that panders them. Well, I want FUJO coomer content. I hate the interpretations people come up with like fujos being cucks or oversexualing things. Cucks imply that I wanted to marry the character in the first place but I don't. The men are hot as shit and I want to see them blush, bond or moan but I want it to happen with someone they have a cool relationship with, someone from their own world. Now if that someone is also hot it's a double win. It's literally just this.

And the oversexualising angers me the most because the only reason for why fujos sexualise things is because we don't get much content served, so we have to create the hot shit ourselves. And if a series actually has a gay scene where dudes are touching each other, blushing or saying sweet things then it's the series sexualising them not me. I just enjoy it, same as every otaku enjoys the 30 potential waifus every anime season presents him.

>>4500
>Well, I want FUJO coomer content.
I've lost count of the number of times I've read wildly inaccurate descriptions of what I want as a fujo. Two hot men doing lewd things together so that I can coom is all I want.

>>4503
I think that many cannot grasp that some enjoy ships without inserting someone self into it. This is where the wild theories come from. To them characters that aren't canonically married or at least interested in the MC aren't for lewd, especially not men.
Hell this reminds of angry users attacking an artist I know for drawing gay. She is a fujo, but the joke is that she just drew single sexy male characters she liked. No other dude in sight, just one guy she likes looking hot, being naked or doing something lewd.

It's interesting that they look at this and are incapable of thinking anything but "gay content for gays" and never once remember that women exist and that they enjoy fiction too. That it's maybe just women making things for women. You have so many claiming lesbianism didn't exist for real but are then baffled when they realize that women are into fictional men and not the tit monsters they like.

>>4500
>fujos being cucks
It's a moid-tier understanding of women. Men get cuck fetishes from cooming (god knows why), i don't see voyeurism doing that to fujos. Like i don't know a single case of fujo-to-cuckquean pipeline, it's a cynical argument
>oversexualizing
So many people have a disgust response to female sexuality, it's irritating.

>>4505
>You have so many claiming lesbianism didn't exist for real but are then baffled when they realize that women are into fictional men and not the tit monsters they like.
You don't get it, they want women to like women so they can live out their threesome fantasy instead of realizing women have desires independent from them. Once they express real attraction to women or have higher standards when it comes to men is when they start having a fit. Women can't be people, they're objects to be screwed and tampered with, they can't have their own thoughts, feelings, and aspirations that's a male thing. By loving BL, it implies the women has no to need to obey society's whims and forges her own desires which is bad for the man because it means she won't settle for less. BL teaches women they have options instead of having to put up with mediocrity.

>>4538
Yeah I believe that the aversion against fujo pandering is 50% about being angry when they realise that they aren't the sole target fanbase in the world and that women exist and have hobbies as well (maybe even the same as them) and 50% envy and insecurity because fujo pandering and success means that many women like 2D men that are hotter and better than them. If a woman doesn't want a fat depressed NEET she is a superficial whore but then the very same dude will most likely shit on every woman that doesn't act and look like their imaginary tradwife with D+ cup or call her a "man" and seethe about wokeness or something.

That conversation in the stupid yaoi memes thread made me realise that I can get pretty 'shallow' with my preferences cause on principle I'll just dislike a shorter guy topping a larger guy cause I don't find it aesthetically pleasing. Like with Galo and Lio from Promare, for instance. Or with Izuminokami Kanesada and Horikawa Kunihiro from Touken ranbu. I don't consider my top/bottom preference with them to be personality related but I simply think it looks goofy for a small and slender guy to top a guy who's bigger than him.

>>4699
kek im the opposite where i enjoy a smaller guy topping just because it changes perceived dynamics. if its the usual large top/small bottom its alright but I do like something goofy to spice things up a bit.

>>4699
I've seen people try to make Kane-san top and it does not look right. He's a lies there and doesn't know what to do with his hands service top at best. Horikawa has to fluff him either way.

>>4699
Don't let the smug smaller top propaganda get to your feelings, anon. You're not "shallow" for having a preference. I will always prefer bigger top&smaller bottom and no matter how much people scream and screech about muh "heteronormative basic bitch standards" I won't budge on it.

>I simply think it looks goofy for a small and slender guy to top a guy who's bigger than him.
This. All the power to the people who like it, but I personally find it too goofy and contrarian-tasting to enjoy.

>>4713
Nta but same, it looks goofy most of the time. The only time I can accept it is in very specific scenarios where the seme is a very intense service top and will bottom for the uke occasionally but it has to be done right.

>>4699
I think the smaller one topping is fine if it suits his personality, if he's a lot more dominant and forceful in canon than the bigger one it usually makes sense to me, the idea of the bigger one pinning the smaller one down, especially if he's usually more dominant, is very appealing though

>>4716
Yeah if its like a dumb oaf/small angry man it makes sense. You see that a lot in villain duos or hero/criminal pairs. For me personality in this regard matters, that being said I agree it can be goofy visually. Maybe in a rape scenario the bigger one can be tied down because the smaller guy knows he can't forcibly dominate. Or it can be a weird threesome where the bigger one is held down by another party so the smaller guy can top an unwilling big uke.

I hate how priest stories never properly capitalize on the angst inherent to that dynamic. There's so much potential when one of the guys is a priest, and yet, the writers seem to always disappoint me. Like, why even make one of the characters a priest if he's not going to feel any form of religious guilt? Half the time, it feels like you could replace him with any other job in uniform, especially one that doesn't have celibacy as part of the job description. It's so frustrating when you feel like the priest character's internal conflict wouldn't change if he were a cop or something instead.

>>4723
If Catholic priest, yes, but there are some with no taboos towards sex, like Shinto priests. (And Buddhist priests in Japan have a long history with boys and male prostitutes…)

>>4724
AYRT and I was referring to Catholic specifically, sorry if that was unclear. I had just read a manga about a Catholic priest and was frustrated when I made the post kek.

>>4724
Buddhist clergy members are supposed to take a vow of celibacy, but I don't think a Japanese author would make much angst about it if they have such a history with prostitutes. But yeah Taoism and Shintoism would be pretty boring in terms of angst. If you really wanted angst and taboo, Islam would be the choice, but I think their fashion is ugly compared to Catholic Priests.

>>4726
Which is a shame because Middle Eastern style clothes that aren't rooted in religion are quite sexy imo

Our new bump limit is 500 posts! Locking this thread and the others that have surpassed the new limit, please feel free to make a new one to continue the conversation.