No.13840[Last 50 Posts]
Previous thread:
>>12715Life's not fair, especially for fujoshi. Post your frustrations and things that are on your mind, no matter how harsh it sounds, about advantages everyone else has that fujoshi don't get.
No.13843
>>13837Why does it always feel like people are forgetting what the genre is when it comes to BL and female characters? Man on man romance/relationships. If women are in the room that can be a bonus but holy shit why do they insist that female characters should be a focus. This is that fucking self-insertion shit I keep yammering about. "What about me?" Yes, what about you? These two men are making out with each other, not the lady who happened to be in their life for a brief moment or not.
No.13844
>>13843Meanwhile some yuribros regularly shit their pants if men even exist in their canon. It must be the stereotype of fujos bashing female love interests that has made people feel they have some need to prove that they aren't this stereotype, or the guilt tripping over 'centering men' by shipping BL so you're not allowed to write about just men? But honestly until now I have never seen anyone insist that there need to be women in BL. Whether they are there or not there IDGAF.
And then there's settings like boarding schools and military…
No.13848
>>13843>>13844There should be something called compulsive activism for these types of situations. Women are always expected to 1-respect other women / support women and 2-respect minorities/support minorities and LGBTQ++++
If you fail to do any of these at any given moment, you are shunned and isolated from any and all communities.
I think I blame tumblr for like this…subliminally planted self-consciousness in fujos that make them question "hey why are you obsessed with men? what about women? don't you know women are important? why do you dislike women?" and it creates this OCD guilt in people that ultimately leads to them admonishing themselves for being fujos or to do shit like "i'm headcanoning them as lesbians now" and so on. Women politicize everything for no reason meanwhile waifufags can literally do fucking whatever and no one cares.
People like to complain about the patriarchy and whatever but the only ones wanting women to do 'proper things a woman should' are other women.
No.13849
>>13842I don't even mind some of the gay artist designed characters, the more macho face types can pair well with others, but when it's practically the same guy with different color hair it loses the appeal. When it's not macho they also have a tendency to make them look sloppy stupid, like Larry Butz style idiots. You'll get an original doujin where all the guys make that same monkey ass face during sex and it throws me so bad.
I think the reason I'm drawn so much to Korean series, not even BL but the series where characters are set up like ships but aren't canon, is because art will beeline to making at least one or both guys broad and muscular with a pretty face. I didn't used to think of myself as obsessed with pecs before but now I fantasize about a pair who can press them together while bickering or just press into the other's back when embracing and stuff. I always did like saving art of old school mecha characters because they'd have various muscular builds, from broad shouldered, slim waist with thick thighs to all round built but with a ponytail or something. These days I feel like I'm closer to getting art of what I really desire, only to always find something's missing or the artist gets too silly with the proportions and I can't take it seriously. Like bruh their height difference is four inches not three foot, his hand did not evolve to snatch the entire waist in one. Make him squishable and chunky but stop using the local bakery's loaves pan to paint on abs that reach down to his pubes. I found a manwha where the top was just right for once and it ended in about five chapters without exploring what it set up. If I had testes they'd be blue.
No.13854
>>13853>Despite its popularity in Japan Demon Slayer never got big with fujos29k fics in the M/M category (56k total fics) isn't bad. JJK does have twice the fic count, though.
I was definitely more thinking of its popularity in Japan though, it had a lot of #1 rankings on pixiv for a while. Overseas more people are filtered by historical settings and the art style.
No.13857
I have extreme fujoshi bias but can't help thinking that most m/m pairings actually are way more interesting than m/f.
No.13862
>>13843they can't help it, for them a romance story that's not about them is inherently cucking, which is where the calling fujo cucks come from, and it's also where the fujo/yume to tif pipeline comes from.
A well adjusted woman can read bl like drammatical murder or sweet pool and think yeah that was hot and interesting, a fujoyume will go in thinking
>OMG no female character to self insert ? what the fuck is this trash?It's a child mentality, a lot of people are literally age regressing without realizing it.
No.13863
>>13857there are but they are not canon and it's always a secondary female character, not the main one.
No.13864
>>13862I found out there were fujotifs yumeing nucani characters and I was so surprised. There's no series that'll make you feel more cucked if you're the self-inserting type.
No.13865
>>13857Last time I got brainworms over a m/f ship (Cykesquill) it was because it reminded me of a m/m ship I had stronger feelings for. (Wrightworth)
No.13868
>>13857I've got exactly one M/F pairing where it's more interesting for both of them than any F/F or M/M pairings with them separated. I think mainstream anime suffers the worst from the bland M/F pairings. I've never seen a single one that was compelling. NaruHina? Yawn.
No.13869
>>13868lots of people unironically ship sasuke x hinata and naruto x ino, even thou they are basically crack ships, they look more interesting than the main ones tbh, and thatsays a lot about main het ships
No.13870
I don't care about your oc
I don't care about your oc
I don't care about your oc
Exceptionally annoyed whenever I'm looking up art for a character and it's a girl OC or sonichu level trash taking up search result space. I tend to not search by pairings and sometimes just want to see the boy. Not the boy with a self insert. Even when I filter reader, x reader, OC
No.13871
>>13869IMO alternate love interest m/f gives more thought to the world/character development than the default, especially in something like Naruto where Sakura/Hinata come right out of the box in love with their canon endgame boy.
>>13857A common theme in the few m/f ships I end up liking is that I am a bigger fan of the girl.
No.13874
>>13848Would that make women become more misogynistic to each other?
>>13844Yuritards incels are the worst subhuman garbage, those men are too insecure, just look at Touhou fandom.
>>13870I don't mind male canon x male oc but female ocs tend to be insufferable mary sues and stole spotlight that was meant for canon, homewrecker to canon ships even if it's hetslop, pretending to simp for female characters but actually hated them. Not to mention most oc creators are entitled who got butthurt over criticism.
No.13875
>>13848Compulsive activism is spot-on. I've noticed that there's a pipeline connected to this: pressure from other fujos to include more female characters in BL, to headcanoning characters as lesbians (as you mentioned), to making characters trans (in either direction, because if they're MtF, then great, they're women now! And if they're FtM then they're just treated as women anyway having PIV sex and being reduced to sniveling uwu uke softboy stereotypes, now with extra unnecessary vagina).
I was in, and promptly left, a fandom like this and it was weird. In the fandom's heyday, it was great and had plenty of EN/JP fujos, but when I joined a Discord server for it last year there was next to no yaoi and instead all of the male characters were suddenly interested in women or were genderbent as women. Oh, or the male characters were still men (looked like men, acted like men, literally no physical changes whatsoever) but were "women" now! How progressive. I legitimately felt like I was going insane when people would talk about this big, buff man in a hypermasculine piece of media and say "oh, he's such a woman! He's a mommy. ♥ He's my trans gf!"
Hate it here.
No.13876
>>13823why is reigen so high on this powerscale?? he’s in the same tier as johan and the survey corps kekkk
No.13877
>>13844I like yuri (albeit in a different, more neutral way than gay stuff) but I am convinced that most doomer posters, obsessive negativity spammers and shitposters in BL threads outside of fujochan are false flagging yuri warriors. Not implying that fujos can't be negative and annoying too, but I notice how negative posters tend to bring up yuri comparisons at some point that reveal how fucking big and successful yuri is and how sad the state of gay. And then you bring up 20 counter examples and they dismiss all of them for petty personal reasons (if they tell the truth). Or maybe because they simply hate gay to begin with and are just there to shit up discussions in an attempt to make fujos believe that gay was dead and yuri thriving. I believe that because comparison wars are exactly the kind of stuff male otaku are obsessed with (see also power level faggotry, waifu wars etc.).
In general I dislike het fags more because they will deny gay even if characters canonically fuck and call it a phase or something while they consider everything a canon pairing if a character did as much as look at another one of the different gender (especially annoying if it also involves loli).
But the saving grace hets have is that they don't come to poison actual m/m territories whereas yuri fags do, be it male 4channers that feel threatened by fujos or western and Korean (sorry but they're at least as bad as westerners in that regard) semi-fujos that like fujo, join fujo spaces but then make everything yuri or trans or both.
No.13878
>>13875Reminds me of when I joined a server for a BL ship and there was this one person spamming long concepts mostly revolving around one impregnating the other and more pregnancy stuff
No.13879
>>13878This happens all the time sadly, albeit I mostly experience it with feminization. Like, not actual trans, more like.. "he is a woman"?? or drawing him as woman including all sexist traits and the male gaze etc but still calling him "he", not sure what that is. They don't mention trans they simply act as if one of the guys from a ship was just a woman to begin with, no questions asked.
But the worst which such OT content is how everybody feels the need to praise them. You might only have one or two in the server but there will be at least five loud ones that will praise that shit so that they produce more and dominate the discussion. God it's so tiresome. Makes me feel like others must be smoking while they consume fiction.
No.13883
>>13881I don't know but its gotten to the point that I've given up on talking about anything at all.
Its kind of funny that they snapped so much at everything that now the only thing people really talk about are dumb twitter screenshot arguments about taste and girlfailure shows like Needy Girl Overdose and Chainsmoker Cat.
No.13884
>>13881I see a lot of safe horny roidpig muscle lover types moralfag over bishies and say they look like children.
No.13885
>>13881IDK but lolcow posters love putting other women down that aren't as "pure" as they are or don't hate men as much as they do. Sick of moralfagging/superiority bullshit from them, sorry I can't be as perfect as them for preferring weird autistic characters over most bishies. Guess that means I fell for the "ugly man psyop" even though I don't give a shit about real men.
No.13887
>>13881Based fellow Tekkenfag, wish there was more for shippy content for it. Bryan/Lei is my favorite but the fandom is dry as fuck and nothing can compete with Jin/Hwoarang. Someday I should actually write something for it instead of complaining about how much more popular Street Fighter is, lol.
And yeah fuck off with the "ugly man psyop" shit, I'll like what I like, no one needs to justify why they enjoy a character. You could probably get me to ship two wooden sticks if you gave them a compelling enough story.
No.13890
>>13881Same. I am not into most of the stuff that 4chan and the likes are flooded with (I don't like traps, shota/shota, idols etc.) but I never would get angry at fujos who ship different things.
My own tastes are often more than questionable so I feel more welcome if everybody is posting their weird fetishes or ships and bond over slightly more meta content like shipping itself, fanworks and fujodom. Honestly I left lc ages ago since even 4chan is a better place to discuss gay, not sure why the userbase of lc is so toxic and hateful.
I generally don't want to associate with anybody that brings in real life morals into discussions about fiction.
No. Being happy about two gay 2D villains making out or liking a drawn bondage pic isn't the same as supporting mass murderers or being the cause of moral bankruptcy and distrust in real life, holy hell.
No.13891
>>13890I mean, the site is primarily dedicated to obsessively shitting on lolcows, it makes sense to me that the same types of people who stalk and neurotically document the lives of autists wouldn't be the best candidates for insightful, open discussion about various aspects of fujodom. It was a shithole years ago and is probably more so (I haven't checked it in a while) now that people have become more radicalized as a whole and there's more feral younger people entering into online spaces.
No.13892
>>13888I just don't care at this point as long as the character is fictional, sorry not sorry. Life is too short not to embrace your love for cute 2D males
No.13895
>>13881What? Do lolcows hate Dante now? Is it because 99% of DMC content is incest and it makes them seethe that they'll never ever fuck Dante? Lady got turned into an ugly gorilla thanks to the netflix show, not good enough to self-insert unless you're desperate. Trish kinda has no character and it's pseudo-incestual since she looks like his mom.
Even if it was some 'roidpig' hate, DMC1-DMC3 Dante still exists.
No.13896
>>13895Maybe I'm in the minority, but I find DMC4's Uncle Dante to still be sexy and not walled. DMC5's Dante is an abomination.
No.13897
>>13891Piggybacking onto this, I remember seeing a post on the regular fujo thread on LC's /m/ saying how it's the only good fujo place to be because fujochan is "misogynistic." I have no idea what they're talking about since I've been here for the past 3 years (time flies!) but people complaining about CB, tiffanies, or not giving a shit about female characters in BL doesn't mean they're misogynistic. It's also pot calling kettle black since that entire website itself has its very fair share of misogynistic takes.
No.13898
>>13897>pot calling kettle blackWelcome to the world of e-drama communities. I've known several people who were heavily involved in the whole LC/Kiwifarms shit and they were the biggest hypocrites; most of them were just as bad as the lolcows they fixated on. I may not like genderspecial garbage in fandom but I'm simultaneously wary of radfem-leaning communities like LC, or any other adjacent groups. Call me a boomer, but I just want to enjoy fujodom as it was in the LiveJournal days, and Fujochan comes close to that ideal without flying too close to the terminally-online-e-drama sun.
No.13901
>>13899I've read good yuri before (there's some excellent Katara/Azula out there), but the vast majority of it is bland coffee shop AUs or weird troon fetish fantasies. Nobody can write yuri well, it seems.
No.13902
>>13901I haven't seen Avatar and the characters are too ugly for me to get why people ship them personally…
No.13904
>>13903Oh my fucking god same
>this is what they'd post in their discord group chatYou fucking fucker they'd be using line not discord.
No.13905
>>13897In LCs convoluted world, saying you don’t give a shit about a certain female character is bigger misogyny than calling real women sluts, bitches, and whores day in day out.
No.13907
>>13905And then saying you do stan the female character will have people asking why you like goonbait moidslop. There was a rancid argument just today about Madoka Magica on there, with one weirdo claiming that no woman would like that show, so the fan in question question defending it must be a man.
The reason lolcow is like that is because enjoying lolcows as a hobby generally does involve some level of a sadistic streak, imo, and I say that as a user myself so please no one feel attacked. But generally, just how strong that trait is and how it manifests varies widely. Someone might like to go on there just to release some steam by mocking a specific internet personality. Someone else might be a just fucking asshole who wants to attack everything and everyone for any reason whatsoever. LC is the perfect stomping ground for both these people.
No.13908
The thing I hate the most of all in every modern fandom is this disgusting dogpiling and toxic users that manage to poison a whole fucking fandom on their own. No matter how fun things are for everybody, one of these trashs will appear sooner or later and fuck things up for everybody else, probably including the fucking creator of the very thing they pretend to be fan of.
It's always western assholes that search and find reasons to harass artists (usually Asian artists that draw better than them, but that's surely purely coincidental) over some alleged problematic crap that nobody who isn't a US-American can even comprehend or it's shits that outright admit that they suck at drawing and writing but simultaneously accuse everybody who gets more likes than them of being part of an evil conspiracy against [insert nation or group they identify with]. The victims are, again, usually Asian artists that can barely even understand English.
Self-acclaimed anti-racist warriors that call all Asians racist criminals. The irony. And yet their anti-racist followers enjoy bullying together with them because they're actually racist and projecting. And because they feel relevant then, since clicking their accounts will show you that they have no talents besides mass-reblogging.
Seriously, twitter, tumblr etc. need to give us the option to instablock everybody with "pro-ship DNI" in their bio because it's the one thing 95% of them have in common. I don't want to ever see these people again and I don't want more shy, talented non-western artists posting their lovely stuff only to get harassed to a breakdown and deletion to make room for more fuckers that flood fandom tags with roblox and swift memes.
Sorry for the many buzzwords but god I am mad. I haven't witnessed a single fandom in the last 10 years that wasn't affected by this. Wouldn't it be cool if everybody could just post the content they loved and connected with others that like it in peace?
PS.: You know how often I attacked someone over trans content or cringy OCs, which I hate?
Never. Because I know I can just avoid looking at their art and enjoy my own shit. Like a person that learned manners and respect while growing up.
No.13909
>>13897Maybe that person thinks that wanting a man to cheat on his GF/wife with another man and wanting anime recs for anime without female characters is misogynistic. I personally think these thoughts are super tame, though, and they're not about real people to begin with.
>>13908I'm not into Arcane/LoL but this reminds me of that time I saw controversy because a chinese artist drew a 'desert au' type of concept for a pairing from that fandom and westies freaked the fuck out and sent the artist hate cause muh orientalism. Though the good news is that I get the impression that chinese users are a lot more thick skinned over shit like this.
No.13910
Really hate how quickly people move on from fandoms nowadays, there's just too much content and everyone's chasing The Next Big Thing. I get it, I admittedly hyperfixate for way too long, and nobody wants to stay in a dead fandom forever (except for me lol), but I feel like this phenomena is an unfortunate result of people's brains being fried as a result of social media/information overload. I need time to process media!!! I know that's too much to ask in the shortform content era but it's so frustrating. I met a fujo who was disappointed that I wasn't drawing or writing more for our OTP and yet she was constantly trying to drag me into other things. She'd always swear that she'd make content for our OTP too but all that she'd manage were low-effort memes that would still get 20k likes on Twitter so I guess that was enough.
I don't feel like this is as prevalent in Asian fujo communities, though?
No.13912
>>13897LC hates fujos so much it's not even worth going to there to talk about misogyny in media. Their fandom discourse thread shits on fujos, they have resident schizos who can't stop bringing up fujos as a strawman when they topic is about toxic troons in the yuri community, and most of them are yumes who think its okay for yumes to be toxic, but fujos are bad and if a fujo defends herself, then she's proving them right. Every single place shits on fujos.
No.13914
>>13912LC has multiple threads dedicated to making fun of fujos or discussing fujo-related discourse and yet you still see people shitting on fujos everywhere else, it's kinda ridiculous. Always the same complaints too, reminds me of the biyearly F/F vs M/M AO3 fic stats discourse that people keep repeating on xitter.
No.13915
did some other nona see the weird convo about femdom? like yumes can't wrap their head around the male x male concept, lol no simulated homosex with a strap on a woman doesn't magically make it homosex, it's just roleplay, no different than a tranny with an axewound pretending.
Hetero dynamics remain, they don't change with toys or fake add ons, and I say this as someone that has some favorite m/f ships and I don't like femdom on them lol
No.13916
nonnas, specially rarepair enjoyers who make content of their ship, how do I stop feeling inferior to the fact that no one will ever like my ship? I constantly keep comparing myself to the Big Ship and how my humble little ship will never measure to that to the point it's actively making my health worse and my ability to create anything stagnate because what's the point of it all if ultimately nobody will care? I don't know how to have fun anymore, each time I make something for my ship I just feel humilliated knowing that no one cares.
No.13917
>>13916Don't feel disheartened nonna, some of my fave rarepairs were things I found through one or two passionate creators. Even if you're not making the same waves as a big ship, I promise there's at least one person out there who saw the light of your ship.
No.13918
I hate it when I post outside fujochan and get a reply from a yume. Leave my YAOI boys be!!!
No.13920
>>13914>the biyearly F/F vs M/M AO3 fic stats discourse that people keep repeating on xitter.It keeps getting repeated because it's exactly what the person in charge of compiling the stats wants.
No.13924
>>13923what's the fandom?
No.13925
>>13924Miis, usually is only Mii Fighters but I've been seeing love for Guest Miis and even the default Miis
No.13926
>>13923How does the fandom work if the majority are non-sharing yumes? Do people even interact with each other?
No.13928
>>13925I see literally no reason anyone's interpretation here should upset people since I don't think they even have unique personalities???
No.13929
>>13926It would explain why it feels like west side fandoms are experiencing slow heat death.
No.13935
>>13848>There should be something called compulsive activismVirtue signaling?
>>13908> post the content they loved and connected with others that like it in peace?Human living in peace was nerver a thing and will never be.
>P.SI get the anger but you can't talk about learning manners or respect if your solution is to block or ignore the problem. Ironically, fandom got worse because of the block and the feed features. No need to develop cognitive abilities or to admit certain interests cannot and shouldn't co-exist in the same space when we can all be "together" in our separate echo chambers.
No.13936
I hate being into a piece of media that has huge potential for bl content but at the same time I know how fucking insufferable the already annoying fanbase will become if and when it finally gets more mainstream.
No.13937
>>13935>you can't talk about learning manners or respect if your solution is to block or ignore the problemNTA, but I'd argue that's the best case scenario when we're all being forced into a mixing pot of fandom interests on the few platforms left. Blocking/ignoring is the next step up from the classic 'don't like, don't read'. However, I'll agree that feeds made things 100% worse. Most of the algorithms thrive on ragebait so they'll constantly show you stuff you don't like since it gets the most engagement.
No.13938
>>13936I'm curious but I also get what you mean. What went from three people who actually read the og content bouncing ideas around to 5k people and only 1/3 (this is a generous estimate) have paid attention to the work and the rest are making fanon from fanon and downplaying the actual good merits of canon to uplift their tropey, stereotypical canon.
No.13939
>>13936I stopped sharing things like I used to outide one specific spot is because of this, people are genuinely insufferable, "muh ironic", and nitpicky and the longer it takes for them to figure out what's there the better.
>>13937I've actually had a pretty good experience with feeds and it pretty much gives me whatever "this cool new bl thing" might be but its something that has to be jimmied around with. You got to unfollow people who like stuff you don't, you got to mute and block when you get them, you have to find accounts and open up certain fandoms.
No.13940
>>13936I feel this way about Kagurabachi and the anime dropping next year. I'm trying to focus on the positives (more fujos!) but seeing how bad the Gachiakuta fandom got after the anime has made me worry for EN spaces.
No.13941
>>13940Gachiakuta's only as bad as it is because the mangaka would interact with fans online so Bachi definitely won't get to that level. I'm more concerned about powerscaling bros and shounentards that make everything into a competition shitting up the place (they really are like male equivalent of female stans).
No.13942
>>13940>KagurabachiYeah, that one has the potential to be a disaster not only because it's shonen, it's a WSJ title plus the one series that's gonna be pushed like crazy to fill the JJK/KNY/MHA/etc hole the next years. I hope for the best tho, since Chihiro's and Hakuri were cute from what I remember reading.
No.13943
>>13941>>13942The present shonenbros in the fandom currently seem to have a neutral-to-playful relationship with fujos given the "meme" that fujos saved Kagurabachi. So far there is also zero m/f chemistry (all of the women just exist, it's cool!) outside of the one ship we already know is canon so there aren't even any coping hetfags trying to quash the obvious shit like Chihiro/Hakuri. The anime flood is guaranteed to ruin this vibe, feels bad man.
No.13944
>>13940You think the fandom is not bad already? The western side already feels as cancer as it can be.
No.13945
>>13944NTA have any examples of that?
No.13948
>>13945I mostly stopped following what's going on the western side a while ago, the fake positivity was obnoxious as fuck and if you ship mc with any of the adults you won't have a good time.
From what I remember, the western fandom was a monolith basically where if you don't agree with the popular consensus on anything you might as well not participate. It's toxic as hell if you're not into the safe and accepted by everyone stuff or have any criticism about the series.
I'm looking forward to the anime because maybe the fandom will finally get diluted a bit.
No.13950
>>13937>the best case scenario Why play the devil's advocate? People have been turned into users and pigeonholed by big companies into sharing a giant public space they don't intend to moderate because… Hate is a market, I guess. They gave you a blindfold to be more resilient while roaming in their toxic wasteland, where making compromises with the most unhinged retards on Earth is the norm. The block exists so the people in charge don't work on their responsibilities, and so social media addicts can cope with " it's okay if you ignore and block". This is like bragging about being stuck in a vicious cycle or an abusive relationship.
>the next step up from the classic 'don't like, don't read'Which was always an overcorrection to flamers and a toxic cope from people who can't even handle mild rejection. You have to try to know if you like it or not. You have to get exposed to someone's shit (tags, synopses…) to know it exists and block said shit. Turning a blind eye when someone is taking a dump in the middle of a public square in broad daylight is not a courtesy. It's a facility, at best.
No.13953
>>13952the best thing is seeing people like something that is authentically you tho
No.13954
>>13952>The truth is even if I say I don't write fics for other people's approval, I know that's not entirely trueI mean, there's a world of difference between writing something you don't even like because it's popular and will get you feedback (writing the most popular ship for the fotm, for example), and wanting some acknowledgement of your work. And likewise, I think there's a difference between 'ooh, this'll be so suspenseful' and 'better add this bit in because the audience would like it. There's nuance to it.
Fanfic is in a weird grey area—an actual book needs to have some broad appeal, or the author will not make money and cannot buy food. Fanfic can literally be written exclusively for an audience of one.
No.13959
The worst part about shipping something anti-hated is feeling like you can't just draw normal art anymore. I feel like I have to post only art that clearly reads as shippy, because if I want to just draw these two guys hanging out, or solo art, it'll get likes from antis. But it does amuse me when I do post something labeled as ship art but they don't notice and like or retweet anyway. (Usually if I have tagged in Japanese.)
No.13962
>>13928They don't, like I said they're blank canvases, but there's still a popular fanon so I just wonder if people might tell me it's wrong. Even then I still have my ideas so I'll stick to them.
>>13926It's kinda weird, people just interacts with those who don't yume the same character, feels kinda lonely when it's already a small fanbase. There's like 2 popular waifufags for the same character in the community and they both hate each other, it's pretty funny.
No.13963
>>13958When I'm in yaoiblock I just daydream about my yaoi OCs while listening to music for a low-effort yaoi fix
No.13967
>>13936This is me and The Bugle Call now that its anime has been announced. So lame that it's hard to look forward to the prospect of something you like getting more popular.
No.13968
>>13959Same here. The funniest experiences I had with antis is that they constantly kept/keep retweeting my transformer fanart that IS meant to be shippy. I am just the type of artist that prefers to draw gay undertones or dramatic motifs over obvious romantic interaction, so maybe they don't notice or refuse to see it? I don't know. It should be clear from what I retweet from others, but maybe they didn't see that either or didn't notice it was me retweeting it.
It's just funny when you draw A/B and casually click a fan who retweeted this pic to check whether they're drawing them as well and the first thing you see is their bio with "A/B shippers DNI". Bruh, what do you think I am doing here? Never blocked them though. I am thankful to them for spreading the word.
No.13969
>>13967Does it have BL potential? From what I have read (only the first chapters years go) and seen it looks very good and I even like the female characters because they have actual cool designs for once instead of being waifu bait. But the vast majority of relevant characters seemed to be women, so while I was looking forward to the anime I don't have any hopes for any relevant m/m dynamics so far.
No.13971
>>13970>Checks blog>PHM fan (currently)>Goes to their archive>Joined tumblr in later 2025 (tourist)>Into murderbot, some podcast, and ORV (aka media where everything is already completely platonic)I feel like all of these media are the kinds you'll find these "totally serious media analysts" always into, it doesn't help murderbot is canonically "aroace autistic" so he attracts some of the most annoying people just by existing. If they want to avoid shipping discussions why not go to reddit…? It's funny that they still like the tumblrina way of fandom and know they would dislike interacting with redditors they just don't think the parts of fan spaces that they hate should exist at all. Not to mention this person has reblogged very affectionate "platonic" Gracerocky art that is indistinguishable from the romantic stuff, but they think romantic Grocky "cheapens" their relationship like okay man be in denial lmao.
No.13972
>>13971I hate that ORV has become like this too. Discussions and shipping were much better before the webtoon got popular and people had to seek out the novel.
No.13974
>>13970the same people that say this usually ship two female characters just because they were friendly to each other.
Male characters thou can go to hell and back for each other but yeah no shipping is too far.
No.13975
>>13968It got to the point that when I want to post gen art I change my avatar to my OTP making out, it's pretty much the only way because nobody checks my bio to see [ship] written there. You would think people who don't want to interact with certain shippers would be more careful so they don't, you know, interact with them.
No.13976
>>13969It does! Mainly in Zahid/Oscar. For weak spoilers
they're childhood friends that got separated and after they reunited the tragedy he went through had made Oscar a lot gloomier/stoic + his power of hyper-regen has made him value his own safety very little. Zahid constantly stresses over him and is quick to put his own body on the line if he thinks Oscar's in trouble despite nor really being suited for combat. The story isn't subtle in showing that Oscar is Zahid's #1 priority, they're extremely cute. No.13978
I keep reliving this awkward experience where I reached out to an artist (who I thought was also a fujo) to commission art of my OTP. She'd drawn them before in scenarios that I interpreted to be non-platonic, so I thought I was safe, however she'd never posted anything explicit publicly so I made it very clear that I didn't want anything explicit. She was so offended that I'd try to give her money for the most benign ship art and refused my commission, but offered to show me art that she'd done of them… hugging each other and holding hands? Which was basically all I wanted?! I still don't get it but now I'm wondering if she was secretly a delusional yume fully convinced that she was just depicting a wholesome ~friendship~
No.13980
I like writing character analysis to share with my friends who add stuff and discuss back. Every time I see someone post a discord screencap of loads of text and say "oopsie I made analysis sorry it's kinda long lol" I get a little excited and click through to the images. Every time it turns out to be a bullet point list of basic as fuck, see it with your eyes, surface level shit that does nothing but describe events. They'll say spoiler warning for a chapter 40 ahead of where I'm at and then it'll be stuff I already know about his personality/motives by the point I'm at except they can point to a future scene where he said it aloud. This isn't analysis this is a wiki trivia section!
No.13985
>>13978That's so weird? Is your OTP somewhat problematic or something? I think some people get extremely defensive if you so much even tangentially imply something relatively 'triggering' to them (agegap, incest, whathaveyou even if they are only hugging or doing platonic things).
Maybe not a yume, but out of touch anti. I've seen some antis who like SFW art of a problematic ship but tell themselves the artist isn't "really" shipping them (they are) or "they don't see it as a ship" so long the art isn't something explicitly more 'romantically coded' like blushing around each other, kissing or etc.
No.13992
>>13985My fandom has even more weird ass dissonance. They have double standards for Japanese artists who ship the incest ship. Some western fandom events will allow them to sign up but if you ship the same shit as a dirty non-Asian then you're not allowed. They'll also share the gen art from those artists but treat non Asian shippers like persona non grata. It's insane.
No.14002
Is there a logical reason for why female lesbian fans and trans must always piggyback onto fujo series fandoms of all things?
I have nothing against them per se, I just don't get why every series or game with canon gay must consist of a fanbase that floods the timelines with horny femposting.
There are millions of women/girl-only anime and cartoons out there, tons of yuri anime and games airing right now and yet I never see these people among their fans. It's like they searched out fujo content on purpose to ungay its tags. I know that isn't the case, but it's so fucking prevalent in every damn fandom I am in that it's getting frustrating.
Imagine joining a yuri fandom like Utena and 80% of the shit you saw were fans hornyposting about the hot boys they wanna fuck and shipping boy/Utena even if they say themselves that they joined for the yuri. Unthinkable.
I just wonder if it's even genuine or just performative or whether they seek out fujo stuff because it has the talented, artists and active fanbases but then I wish they would just make their own instead of flooding BL content with like two female side characters to make it about them.
No.14003
>>14002>Is there a logical reason for why female lesbian fans and trans must always piggyback onto fujo series fandoms of all things? they want to be in close proximity with groups of women, and then seethe when those groups of women don’t conform to their personal values.
No.14004
>>14003Yeah that's the only reason I can think of.
I especially love when they post their obligatory Tiermaker charts to make clear where they stand in case that you weren't aware before.
The first "Eternal love/WANNA FUCK/GODDESS"-tier is just nothing but female characters, the second tier is women again that has them really scrapping the absolute bottom of the barrel to get enough women/girls of a fujo/sausage series together to fill it.
Lastly the male ones including all fujo favorites that start at tier 3 at best, labeled "nice/ok". Usually even the MC himself lands here unless they selfinsert and headcanon him as trans, then he has a chance to be in row 2.
No.14005
>>14002Can you provide a specific example, the only modern series I can think of that had a major clash between fujos and yuri enjoyers is DunMeshi and I wouldn't call that a fujo series nor does it have canon gay (? to my knowledge).
No.14006
>>14005not them. However Transformers which is a 80% male cast human and bot is flooded with women and 'women' who use the word queer as often as people use articles. And they will take these two distinctly male characters and call it yuri. Or make a trans burrito and warp their character until they can call it f/f. Worst of all, there's no JP fandom to keep the yaoi pure because most of the fans are Chinese aka cuntboy central, or western.
No.14007
>>14005Oh, no, sorry, I don't mean actual clashes. Just flooding. Meaning you walk into a fandom of a fujo series (as in, at least one obviously gay character + blatant fujo pandering) consisting of a cast that is 90% male only to see every vocal poster screaming about women. They rarely attack fujo content, hell they sometimes casually even retweet it, but every post they make themselves is about their sexual obsession with the female characters, obsession with pairing them with MC (who they might or might not HC as trans) and a general lack of interest in the plot or setting because that isn't about women.
But this is what makes it weirder IMO. If it was an open war it would make more sense. But they are largely chill with fujos, they're just very, very obsessed with spreading het and lesbianism within fandoms of series with 0 lesbian pandering and usually no het either.
>Can you provide a specific exampleNot the fandoms I was thinking about btw., but a past one that would be a great example would be Transformers. ~400 characters, like 390 of them male and yet all the active western fandom spergs about if isn't trans!Starscream are the few women from the comics that are barely more than tokens. And pink of course, because they're women. And motherly/nurturing. In short, they're really not good, but of course the fanbase rates these largely minuscule characters higher than any of the central ones or the plot itself, it's all they talk about and you're suspicious or outright misogynistic if you don't rate them #1.
No.14008
>>14007But anon don't you care about some random fembot who got a single toy 10 years ago? I had someone actually upset at me for not wanting a Minerva or Greenlight.
They'll scream BUT CLOBBER as though she has any genuine fans besides people who want to push some bizarre fantasy that fembots have ever been interesting in the series 40 years of history. Arcee and Beast Wars characters sure. But some people will throw the wettest piss fit over AO3 stats because F/F is so low, and will push shipping a het pair as F/F when it's both stupid, and nonsense.
No.14009
>>14002>Is there a logical reason for why female lesbian fans and trans must always piggyback onto fujo series fandoms of all things? Judging by the other replies, I already said it at the beginning of the thread and it really must be compulsive activism.
You, female, are centralizing men by thinking about BL or shipping men. You need to make a space for women within your internal conscious. You DO care about women, right? You have to show that you care about a woman.
This usually ends up resulting in people saying shit like "y'all should be shipping Random ass woman A x Random ass woman B but instead prefer yaoislop (insert random BL they don't like here)".
The same is with trannies and trans hcs that are usually transmasc for male characters. A male character that is TOO nice, TOO agreeable can't possibly be a biologically born male. In an ironically sexist turn of events, male characters that exhibit 'feminine behavior' like crying, being depressed, being happy or being short / androgynous looking surely must be transmasc.
Or, they want to ship het but shipping het is uncool so everyone is T4T instead (and the character's transness literally ONLY matters for porn)
No.14010
>>14009Yeah the sexism is confusing. I feel like one of the main reasons for why they prefer female characters is that they equal sexuality with women the way chauvinist men do. In 97% of all media men aren't the subject of attraction, there is no female/gay gaze or fanservice and the audience isn't supposed to desire them, they're supposed to insert into them and imagine to fuck the women they get. Even with het romances for women it's less about winning the hot men and more about the attempt of making the woman that watches it desire to be saved, fucked and turned into a housewife by the good guy™.
These users perpetuate that. Male characters seem inherently asexual to them and if they make nsfw they turn the women into bimbos or MILFs. It's like they were so brainwashed by coomer content that they couldn't fathom another way of thinking. I wouldn't wonder if many of them weren't even lesbians IRL but simply lacked the ability to sexualize male characters or thinking it was wrong, the way that dudebros get mad about fujo content for "dishonoring" the men.
No.14011
>>14009>and the character's transness literally ONLY matters for pornWell, obviously. They can't self insert unless one of the characters has a surprise vagina
No.14013
>>14009kek that reminds me how I have just seen logs of a discord from a game dev I like in which a bunch of fans were trying to convince everybody that the ONE relevant canon gay character of the game was actually a woman. Luckily the dev dude was cool and just replied "No, he's very much a man lol". Common man, my 2D guy is weird as fuck, insecure and perverted, you wouldn't love him anyway. He's a shipping character for other perverts (fujos).
It's honestly so sus when self-acclaimed pro-LGBT+ users love to erase the little casual gay that media has. Like.. why?
I notice again and again that the primary victims of forced fanmade gender chance are the super rare gay or seemingly gay characters in fiction. If an anime stars 20 dudes and 2 of them are likely gay then these people will completely ignore the 18 and trannify the two.
No.14014
>>14002Reminds me of Hundred Line. It's a waifu game with heavy fujo pandering but the discord has a bunch of yuri fans hallucinating yuri between mostly very basic dynamics between the female characters and trying to say they're lesbians when almost all of them (I think all of them except the joke character?) show attraction to the MC
No.14015
>>14012They look like 2d idols or vtubers, but I like some of the designs a bit. Good for the fujos and yumes into that.
About the quote rt, funny how they never complain about all the media making real life/history/mythology male figures into bishojo or moeblobs for harem/ecchi purposes
No.14016
>>14012Only two of the characters are based on princesses to begin with and some others include "Cinderella's left shoe", this "erasing women" shit is so forced.
No.14018
>>14005kingdom hearts comes to mind, it's literally just cute anime boys and it's the game equivalent of sports anime in how the male characters relate to each other yet it became flooded with yumes etc claiming the best characters are the generic female characters because they self insert as them.
No.14019
>>14018> shonen by Square Enix and Disney If there is such a thing as shonen for girls, then KH is a perfect example of it. Fujos and yumes both belong there.
No.14022
>>14021You're not the only one suffering
>>>/ot/3986 No.14023
>>14019Yumes had final fantasy, even before the remake at the time of ff7-8-9 and 10 had yumes glazing the games and the cute boys.
No.14024
>>14002>Is there a logical reason for why female lesbian fans and trans must always piggyback onto fujo series fandoms of all things? Simple: they don't want to be around straight men because they know straight men will just tell them to kill themselves. But they know that women are socialized to feel guilty about enjoying things without catering to everyone's needs, which is why they spend more time asking fujos to write them fics and not asking straight men to do, because they can't guilt them.
>>14010>Male characters seem inherently asexual to them and if they make nsfw they turn the women into bimbos or MILFsThis is also why male characters are more likely to be asexual too. Men are supposed to be above being the objects of desire, but women exist to be desired. It's actually feminism 101 but so many people don't get it when the most popular media they're into are shitty anime or gacha games that sell waifus for lonely neet incels.
No.14025
>>14021I feeeeeel this. If it makes you feel any better I am the same. I am almost only into weird-looking antagonists or creepy non-humans that don't fit into any category that's popular and pretty boys make me asexual. The closest I ever got to a ship involving a bishounen is Proteus from Transformers and he's a despotic alien robot. And even there I was the only damn artist for this ship besides some obscure older Japanese fan who stopped drawing in 2016.
There were other ships that had a bunch of other artists at least, but they're always niche even within their own fandom.
At least now I currently ship two vaguely popular ships but they're only relevant within their specific niche considering that one consists of two creepy older evil samurai men and the other one of a NEET gamer and an abomination.
The only advice I can give is to keep making your own food, it's the only way of shilling your ships. If you keep drawing and posting on twitter/tumblr you might eventually get others interested. It's not much, but I helped getting a Chinese fan into my shitty robot ship back then (after a few years) until she got obsessed and drew it herself (and her art is fantastic) and people do reblog or kudo your content which means that they enjoy it, even if they don't create anything for them.
Don't get discouraged by slow discords. Discords are almost always dead even if it's big. Most of the fans that share my shit tastes are Asian anyway so they never join ENG discords, sadly. Maybe there are potential fans of your ship in other countries too. Maybe people who can't speak English. So don't stop posting art on twitter, which is frequented by tons of artists around the world.
And if the fics of that one writer are good try inspiring each other. I did that with a niche Mass Effect ship I was obsessed with. I inspired her to new fics and her fics inspired me to draw new art. Such art loops rarely happen, but when they do it's wonderful.
No.14026
>>14024>Simple: they don't want to be around straight men because they know straight men will just tell them to kill themselves. I get that, but they are many, they could build up their own fanbase. Fujos do it everytime they start a gay fandom for a shounen or seinen series.
E.g. Golden Kamuy has one the biggest Asian gay fandoms I know and it's technically aimed at adult men. The readerbase most likely consisted of 80%+ men at first too. Fujos then noticed it had the exact type of gay hints/jokes/pandering they are into, but instead of saying "nah, it's male territory" and invade some yume spaces they just started to draw gay shit for it, found each other and grew.
I never see yume and trans fans doing that. Hell even 4chan has fujos posting everywhere and that's Incel Central. Yume/trans/yuri fans could also just not give a shit and post what they like and ignore the few babies that seethe about it instead of demanding fujo fandoms to pander to their non-fujo fetish.
No.14027
>>14025 Thank you so much kind stranger ♥ you're right, I should stop letting this get to me and keep on posting about my ship. Even if no one likes it, I'll always keep making content about them.
Funny thing of you mentioning Asian fans getting into your ship is I have the exact same thing as well. They love my OTP and they're always one of the first ones to comment down on my art I make of my ship. So I'm happy that even though I love an unpopular ship, glad that there's people from around the world that also love the ship.
I hope your niche otp gains popularity and followers someday, kind stranger. It's very sweet of you that you inspired people to get into your otp.
No.14028
>>14027Gasp! Are you the Daken x Johnny queen from the west thread? I love your ship too! I wish Marvel wasn't so retarded and brought back Daken with a competent writer like Liu.
No.14029
>>14028 Yes! That's me!
I'm so so glad to find another Daken × Johnny shipper here on Fujochan! Happy to see another woman of culture too!
And same, ughh, every ship he has nowadays suck ass and they don't have the same excitement Daken and Johnny had. God bless the fujo queen, Marjorie Liu. Without her, I don't think this ship would ever exist.
But likewise, very happy to see another Daken x Johnny shipper in the wild!
No.14041
>>14023FF had both fujos and yumes since the ps1 era. SQ and SE rpgs are also popular with girls, it's part of why they become so mainstream.
> Cloud/Sephiroth> Squall/seifer No.14042
Thanks to selfinserters any dynamic involving a MC is doomed from the start if you consider the MC the top or even if the series makes it obvious that he tops, thanks to selfinserters being women and making the one they insert into the bottom on principle, regardless of canon and personality traits.
I hate it. Less often but also happens to side characters if one of them is more important than the other. The important ones are ALWAYS turned into bottoms and the tops into soulless fuck tools, making both characters shit in most fan interpretations.
I never understood why selfinserters can only latch onto the central characters anyway. The characters I relate the most with are usually side-kicks and such, I would more likely insert into them if I had to.
No.14043
>>14041The bl ships in Ff never got as popular as the one in Kh.
FF as a whole had a quieter fandom, and that's because yumes barely create anything, which is why they always need to piggyback in fujos fandoms for content.
No.14044
>>14026>I never see yume and trans fans doing that.Sorry for the wall of text. This is a moids' world. Unlike fujos or yumes, the trans community does not conform to gender and produces art that only appeals to their tribe. Moids reject them even harder than they reject fujos for this. Unless they are feminist about it, yumes are accepted by moids; they don't stick out or need to do anything. They pretty much fall in line with moids on the subject of fujos or trans. LGBT people stick out anywhere they go and could only fit with the other misfits: in fujo spaces.
Fujos didn't gatekeep them out of their community because they already had a few amongst their ranks and knew what it's like to be hated for existing. Sadly, that acted like a Trojan horse. It turns out a lot of gays and trans people are just very toxic moids and yumes with a special snowflake flavor. It's also very easy to absorb and hijack those spaces since fujos are just occupied by women who are in for fun and don't claim to be about a big cultural movement about civil rights or to be about representation.
>TLDR; Trans and gays communities lived long enough to become the villain, and like the moids they hate, they're coded to never see themselves as the bad guys. Hence why fujos are vile women who conform to moids or lust after them gayz, and it's okay to cull them out now. On the brighter side, fujos are creatives and don't need the world to revolve about them. If they remain resilient toward this new and more pervasive invasion, they can rebuild their "fort" by keeping culture "warriors" at arm's length this time.
No.14045
>>14043KH is backed up by Disney and all their main IPs; it would be weird if it had a smaller or quieter fandom than FF given its success. The majority of yumes create nothing in general because "they have canon". They're satiated, same as moids. I wonder how many people here have actually drawn or written because, in my experience, fujos create and develop their skills because they are titillated by canon but starving enough they have to cook their own meal.
No.14046
>>13958Another nona who plays DoL! How delightful, maybe I should necro the thread on /ex/.
Surprised that there not many fujos compared to yumes in DoL fandom.
No.14047
>>14043Sefikura is massive in CN and JP. Arguably bigger than KH ships too
No.14050
>>14043>The bl ships in Ff never got as popular as the one in Kh.Really? Sephiroth/Cloud was one of THE defining BL ships of the 90s on par with Griffith/Guts and Kaworu/Shinji. The type that worked as the entry level gay that turned many into fujo who weren't even aware that m/m existed before.
It was all web 1.0 though so I assume that most of it is lost by now and I doubt it's huge today. tbh I never saw much KH shipping so I didn't even know it was big. I should finally play these games.
>>14045> I wonder how many people here have actually drawn or written because, in my experience, fujos create and develop their skills because they are titillated by canon but starving enough they have to cook their own meal.Yeah I draw all the time and casually write. The only irl fujo friend I have does both regularly. All fujos I am loosely friends with on twitter and such are obviously also artists and honestly all art I see on twitter, regardless of the series, is done by fujos. Even the ones drawing non-shippy art of girls or canon het like Jadugaar fanart are mostly fujos if you look into their gallery, it's crazy.
I mean there are probably tons of moe blob artist out there too, but I never happen to come across these people, not even when I browse art in general. The few big ones (30k+ follower) that people liked me were shit IMO. Most of them drew nothing but bland moe faces on a white background or distorted h-bimbos. I assume that these artists are the first ones to be replaced by AI slop.
No.14051
>>14046the fujos exist, but they tend to be quiet because both the main and modding discords are full of mentally ill yumes. most of the good bl art of the series is drawn by chinese fujos who don't tag anything to avoid them.
No.14052
>>14050>Sephiroth/Cloud was one of THE defining BL ships of the 90s on par with Griffith/Guts and Kaworu/ShinjiI'd argue that it's THE defining ship. There's so much Sephiroth/Cloud out there that I'm pretty sure every BL written since 1997 has some genetic material of that ship making it up. The only ship that can complete with its ubiquity is maybeee SNS.
If you know where to look, you can usually still track down some old fansites, and with the remakes coming out, I suspect it'll have a resurgence soon.
No.14053
>>14050>>14052What happened to it? Did fans just move on? As an outsider I know of Sefikura but don't see it mentioned much, just Tifa vs Aerith ship wars so I never would've guessed it was huge.
No.14054
>>14053There's plenty of new Sephiroth/Cloud art/fics around. When Remake dropped it felt like thousands of sleeper agents activating.
>As an outsider I know of Sefikura but don't see it mentioned muchI think there is just a layer of insulation between fujos now that there wasn't before–if you were on English speaking fujo sites back then, you'd get insane yaoi osmosis through their link pages/webrings or if it was something like LJ then their blogs/comments/bio.
>>14050>I never saw much KH shipping I loooooved Riku/Sora and ultimately what made me lose interest in KH fandom was that none of the (EN, at least) fanfics were ever in the canon setting! There were one billion high school/modern AUs with every ship config you could think of but rarely any speculative fic concerning canon or a peep out of a Disney character. Outside of the Soriku fanart the fandom just wasn't that creative. Do any modern KH girlies know if that's changed?
No.14055
>>14054Don't forget the sudden demonization of Akuroku, which was arguably more popular than Soriku. KH fujos never recovered since I feel
No.14056
>>14053the fans got older and squeenix focused on their newer properties. like the other nona said, there's still a ton of fansites and i've seen a lot of artists pick back up the ship since the 'remake' came out. sefikura is a classic toxic yaoi that will never truly die for anyone who enjoys that kind of pairing.
No.14058
>>14054>>14055>>14057Genuinely baffles me how Akuroku completely died out in the west, and maybe in general but as a kid although I wasn't into KH at all I kept seeing these two homos everywhere. I played 365/2 later in life and then I understood everything, but by the time I went to look at things most old fanart / websites I had seen right at the peak of 2009/2010 had died out. Then I went to look at what most >modern fans were saying, and yep I got instantly hit with the 'minor and adult' thing.
Which, maybe unrelated but somewhat related, I have been into Dante/Vergil for longer than most modern DMC fans have been alive and I see a similar phenomenon (if not worse) of people demonizing (heh) the pair. It's not as if people can't dislike it or whatever, but shit has been popular since DMC3's release and it never stopped.
I often feel like I'm mentally stuck in the 2010s idk, I often hear about old ships I used to like that are now 'problematic' and feel weird because everyone liked them at some point
No.14059
>>14058Minors online with no media literacy and adults converting themselves to anti pro-shipping like it's their religion. That's what happened.
Anyone over 25 hating on ships that were popular when they were in the age bracket of teen fujos at the time is only doing it because they're scared of not fitting in anymore.
No.14060
>>14058>I often feel like I'm mentally stuck in the 2010s idk, I often hear about old ships I used to like that are now 'problematic' and feel weird because everyone liked them at some pointREAL. I'm so glad I was already an adult when of this thinly-veiled-shipwar stuff popped off, I can't imagine having to deal with all that shit with a teen brain.
No.14065
>>14062>I miss when fujos were able to enjoy their ships without worrying about someone trying to dox them.Me too. I still try to ship whatever tickles my fancy but the most fangirling I do is inside my mind, my laptop and a physical journal kek
No.14066
>>14062Cringe but free stopped being applicable when tiktok made it legal to doxx you over a trend. Social media stopped being about blogs and turned into one grand Truman Show.
I know a lot of fujos NA to JP who have gone quiet who shipped akuroku because they know it isn't worth trying to keep up a blog or any meaningful fandom space without some tiktok 14 year old on your strawpage telling you to key emoji. Fandom died with geocities and what we have now is based entirely on what language you speak, how willing you are to engage with gacha, and how you choose to interact
I think JP only doujin enjoyers are getting the best deal, not so much if you want to buy stuff at conventions or read on AO3.
No.14070
>>14069I would get it if everyone that hated the problem pairings was under 17, but they aren't. They're converted adults. Why would any adult listen to someone else's brat when they're not running a day care, school or library?
No.14071
>>14062I just openly like ~problematic~ pairings and block / ignore everyone that is too dumb to see how awesome they are. Scared of getting doxed though.
No.14072
>>14071If you are practicing good opsec it’s unlikely you get doxxed. So many people who get doxxed have it happen because of rookie mistakes like having the same username across different platforms or using an email address associated with their IRL identity to sign up for random bullshit.
No.14073
>>14072To be fair, it still is upsetting to be put on blast by a bunch of crazy 17 year olds over shipping, even if they don't find out your home address and govt name.
No.14074
This discussion reminds me of an older fujo who ran a lot of fandom events that I followed in the early 2000s. She recently passed away and I was feeling nostalgic so I found her LJ and it was crazy how open she could be about her life without having to live in fear. The ship she primarily created for was ~problematic~ and yet on her personal blog she'd talk at length about being a mother, about doing social work and helping abused kids… if she was doing this now, she'd lose her job and probably have her kids taken away from her because of some TikTok vigilante.
No.14075
>>14074That sounds very fascinating and I'm very saddened by her loss even if I'm not familiar with her. Could you share her LJ per chance? What sort of fandom events did she host?
No.14076
>>14051Yeah, I hate to say it, but the original /d/ crowd seemed to be saner in comparison. Those yumes can get possessive and overly sensitive over their favorite characters, which is funny because a good chunk of the cast are selfish rapists.
Also, it might be petty but I hate when they use the tag when it's just an art of their PC (almost always femPCs) and no one else. If there's a LI, he's always drawn with much less effort than the femPC. Like, I'm sorry, but no one gives a shit about your super special and sexy OC.
No.14078
>>14052I remember there was a rumor that in the early 00s when Descendants of Darkness was on hiatus people caught the author on a forum posting Sephiroth/Cloud and it just made sense, she would do that.
No.14079
>>14054> you'd get insane yaoi osmosis through their link pages/webringsAw, nona, you're making me sad. Makes me want to make an old fashioned yaoi webring on neocites or something.
No.14082
>>14069It's either 'came to jesus' syndrome where they flagellate over their past interests or the person in question always disliked incest or age gap (Or BL as a whole) and now has an excuse to get militant about it instead of just dealing with feeling grossed out like before.
No.14084
>>14083I can't stand the victimhood of it
>WE'RE STARVING EVERYTHING IS FOR FUJOSAlmost all of romance ever depicted throughout human history is heterosexual
>NOOOOO I MEAN ROMANCE THAT APPEALS TO WOMEN!!!!As if the entire romance genre isn't completely aimed at women?
>NO I DON'T WANT CRAPPY ALPHA CEO DADDY DOM SLOP!!Yeah because heterosexual romance with a non-threatening man instead of a dominant one is so rare and niche, give me a break. Or they whine about other people not making free fanworks for their tastes. BL exists as a genre because fujos make their own food.
Also don't get when yumes whine about fandom being full of fujos. You ship a character with yourself, something extremely personal to you. They often section themselves off from the rest of fandom with rules for other people interacting. And then have a victim complex over it.
No.14085
>>14084>Or they whine about other people not making free fanworks for their tastes. BL exists as a genre because fujos make their own food.The idea that they can crybully a bunch of artists with no interest in their yume hetslop, into giving up BL is ludicrous.
The fact that it sometimes works is worse.
No.14086
>>14084I write for hetero pairings so niche I'm the only one who did it. And I think the problem is that they want het pairings with the same effort and care as fujo ones.
However their problem is that they're only looking at main girl, main guy. Instead of looking into the implied relationships a het pair could have if they considered their personalities beyond attractive 1 and attractive 2. While simultaneously woobifying them to the point they will not acknowledge anything worth writing about.
MHA is a hetero pairing ocean of content if you're working with history, parentage and how they view each other. But most people will go for Momo x Todoroki because rich girl x rich guy. That's it. Not perhaps, Momo x Iida which is still rich but dives into expectations in ways they can understand as both of them have had very intense lessons in facing the real world.
Midoriya centric harem power fantasies are what happen most of the time, but there is room for het if people actually analyzed the female characters in ways people tend to not want to. Which is, giving them agency and looking into flaws to talk about. It's entirely possible, but it isn't easy. And by easy, I mean as brainless as NaruSaku or IchiRuki.
I used to ship Nel and Nnoitra hard as a teenager, but was surprised nobody saw the vision. It's because he hates her that makes it work. The same way Ichigo and most of the cast works for yaoi.
No.14088
>>14084>However their problem is that they're only looking at main girl, main guy. Bingo.
Fujos freely have shipped best friends, enemies, enemies to friends and sometimes even crack ships.
Het shippers are so fragile they can only ship what the author points at them, like the author is their god and they can only see within the framework of the eyes of the author.
It's even more ironic when it comes to romance/shipping, because Japanese authors most often have a terrible understanding of how romance and relationships work.
No.14089
>>14088>Fujos freely have shipped best friends, enemies, enemies to friends and sometimes even crack ships.Some of my biggest ships are side character/side character. The best ships are the ones that god and the author never even fathomed in their deepest dreams.
No.14092
Someone already mentioned it some weeks back but I just observed another discussions involving multiple fans that were eager as fuck to make the one confirmed gay character of a thing I like bi and it makes me so mad.
I see this shit everywhere, and it's not the first time I even see it in this very fandom. We get one fucking gay guy or canon gay pairing like once in a blue moon and these shit heads just cannot cope with the idea of having fujos getting something for once. They HAVE to search for reasons for why the gay guy is actually not gay, either by inserting bi headcanon with absolutely 0 canon hints, by headcanoning at least one guy of the ship as trans or by simply attributing the wrong gender to him, no questions asked.
Like this time the excuse was that the gay dude was obsessed with another dude. Which is OF COURSE proof for his bisexuality, because he only likes the other dude because it's him. The annoying "gay for you" meme. Again 0 canon hints for that. The GAY creator himself called him "gay" but hey, why should that matter?
Funny how I have never seen anybody headcanoning Romeo and Juliet as bi. "They only loved each other for the unique personality not the gender. They're totally bi bro." Said nobody ever.
I have no idea if these people do that because they're women (regardless of the pronouns) and can't cope with a character they like who wouldn't be after their ass or if it's suppressed homophobia or fujo hate.
No.14093
>>14088I sadly notice this mentality more and more often among fujos as well. Maybe due to the representation discourse? I have no idea but it's so stupid.
There are so many great manga, anime and games that have confirmed gay side characters or top tier side characters with great, very gay dynamic but recommend that and they get mad and call it het shit because the crappy MC has a female LI. Hell if I didn't dislike the style and genre of MHA I bet I would have shipped a bunch of hot guys there, but certainly not a baby like Deku.
At first I thought it was because of how MCs were written (they're usually audience surrogates and therefore more vanilla than the sidekicks and foes) but start thinking that they simply lack the imagination to fill the gaps for characters that aren't on-screen every week or lack the attention to even notice anything that isn't in focus and outright stated. Or they suffer from the MC syndrome and have to selfinsert and cannot do that if they aren't the center of attention. Anyway I blame social media for this odd behavior.
No.14095
>>14093>>14092Wait til you see the discourse when the BL character is actually bi. It's insufferable and full of "stealth" yumes and hetties acting oppressed and how "refreshing" it is to see a BL have bi rep, include women, and whatever dumbass excuse they spew. I'm fairly flexible with what's in my BL but I am very staunch in that the men and m/m are the forefront in terms of relevancy and romance. I'm tired of fujos being called all sorts of names just because we curl our upper lips when a female character becomes a true potential LI
No.14096
>>14084 Hetfags need to get it through their thick skulls that they have loads and loads of (shitty) het art, fanfics, and so much more content churning out for them 24/7.
Such spoiled, and immature children they are. Thank god I'm not a hetfag. I can't imagine living a life where fujoshis are my enemies and relentlessly harass them over a canon pairing everyone will eventually stop caring about once the year is over.
Oh god, and don't get me started on yumes. Literally the worst subspecies to deal with after hettybetties, ship their husbando with another character, they lose their shit.
Why can we never catch a break for once?
No.14097
>>14092>eager as fuck to make the one confirmed gay character of a thing I like biThat's crazy they aren't getting tumblr types in their messages telling them to kys for "erasing" gay rep. I remember when Shiro Voltron was confirmed homosexual everybody who shipped him with the girls got a level of protracted vitriol usually only reserved for icky fujos.
No.14098
>>14092I don't care much for sexuality headcanons honestly (when I ship characters, I usually imagine as them as "gay for you"/turbohomos because I only want them to ever fall for the other half of my OTP lel) but it's annoying how in fandom bisexuality is almost synonymous with hetshipping or often used in service of it. Like that whole bi4bi thing people do when they have a hetship but don't want to be shat on for shipping M/F so they make it out to be "b-but they're kweer since they're both bisexual!!11!".
No.14100
>>14096Ah, between this and the MGS4 remake coming out, this is really making me want to dig up all the old otasune fic I read a decade ago.
>>14098I hate how 'gay for you'/'i dont like boys, i like you'/etc stuff fell by the wayside in favor of realism. I don't *want* realistic depictions of human sexuality, I want my cheesy yaoi romance.
No.14104
>>14009>A male character that is TOO nice, TOO agreeable can't possibly be a biologically born male. In an ironically sexist turn of events, male characters that exhibit 'feminine behavior' like crying, being depressed, being happy or being short / androgynous looking surely must be transmasc.Not FTM but I've been trying to seek out more artists in my current main fandom and as a result of trying to scour bluesky for more people to follow I've been encountering people who take a grownass wizard man with chin scruff and MTFing him. One of the reasons given was that a teen girl with father trauma didn't include him in her trauma so clearly that must mean he's her mother figure. Speaking of this fandom, I'm encountering more and more instances of someone posting an OC who will just be an entirely intact woman in every way with her tits out but the artist labels her as a he/him and it's so 'words don't mean anything anymore' that the people drawing zippertits characters and drawing a strapon for NSFW are starting to look reasonable. At least they acknowledge that men's bodies are supposed to look a certain way.
No.14106
I don't really want to say it but while there are a lot of super talented Korean artists out there and some of them not even falling into the category I am about to complain about I stay the fuck away from most KR accounts because they're honestly even worse than westerners, not sure why. It's mostly the obsession with girlboss shit, feminism, trans, hetefying of everything and, worst for me, personally, the weird ignorance or even outright dislike for every type of gay that isn't flawless, asexual fluff shit, including the shipping of canon gay characters with le stronk women.
In the rare case that men are drawn at all they get moefied and feminized on top of being made asexual because only women are allowed to be cool and sexual. Gawd. I am not sure what causes this considering that Asian countries are usually way cooler than western ones in that regard. I blame Christian brainwashing.
Like there are exceptions of course. Some that draw non-flawless gay or some that never draw anything but lesbians and trans or asexual gays but casually retweet actual gay stuff that someone else drew, but it's strange how prevalent the "girlboss fuck yeah, men = evil unless they're either reduced to sexless blobs or bottoming to a strong woman!" mentality is there.
No.14107
>>14106I wonder if some of it is a result of those korean incels you'll see throwing a tantrum over gacha games. Whether it's intentional pushback or trying to make up for them.
No.14108
>>14104I largely ignore Bluesky because of that and I hate how many westerners quit twitter to move there because BS is worse than twitter in every regard, especially the fans. What's even worse is that the most talented artists, especially Asians, aren't willing to move away from twitter so they willingly ignore the best art and save and post tumblr styled art instead.
>One of the reasons given was that a teen girl with father trauma didn't include him in her traumaThey always scrap the bottom of the barrel to search for reasons but attack fujos if they claim that two characters who sleep in the same bed and fight naked are gay cis men because it excludes bisexuals and trans.
Considering how obsessed with trans most of them are I absolutely do not understand why they cannot see themselves as anything but women. I know one woman IRL who feels like a guy and while she didn't make it official she told me that she would be trans if she was born later, in a time where transition was easier to attain. And she isn't just one of the best gay fanfic writers I know, she never wrote men as anything but men and she does it well. This mentality makes more sense to me. If you feel like a man the last thing you should crave is a headcanon that turns the gays you love into women.
This is why I believe that this whole trans hype is just a dirty lie from het shippers that use trans as excuse to force their het garbage down everybody's throat and threaten you with transphobia if you hate it because you like gayness. They know very well that they're fucking with you and they enjoy the power they have over others. None of these people are actually trans, at best it's some identity joke to them to play the victim or fit in.
No.14110
>>14070"Antis" started becoming big in 2017. That's almost a decade ago. The idea that "teens will grow out of it one their own" is a lie because fandom always belongs to the young adults, and now zoomers run fandoms so being an anti is the default. You have a new generation of grown adults making this the norm, and previous generations of older adults like millennials being told to move aside.
>>14092I feel like this comes from hetfags and yumes. They don't want a male character to be gay because they hate the idea of not being able to yume him, or that less people will make het ship content.
No.14111
>>14108>This is why I believe that this whole trans hype is just a dirty lie from het shippers that use trans as excuse to force their het garbage downGenuinely not how it works.
Het shippers want actual HET pairings. Cis het. Not trans. They are a horror on their own and want a gender jester court of kinks they can't admit are simply body swapping or head swaps. Which are a thing. If I was a Narusaku shipper, I want Naruto to be with a girl. If I want a girl Naruto to be with Sasuke, I would- and this is to be clear how the logic works, I want Naruto to be a G I R L. Not trans.
Transwashing the cast is not what het shippers care about. It is what theater tumblr women obsess over as well as people with a bunch of PIV preferences but can't recognize it for what it is.
No.14112
>>14110My current fandom that I enjoy making fanworks for is 99% antis, kills any will I have to post stuff and genuinely ruins my mood whenever I check what's going on there. I hate it so much.
No.14113
>>14111I mean, when they transwash the uke, they turn it into het. The tumblr ftm gals aren't the same crowd as the hetshippers and yumes, but they are absolutely shipping het. Three heads of the hydra, if you will.
No.14123
>>14113The worst is if you are into non-human characters. Aliens, robots or ghosts, horrors, whatever. The non-human trait will always be their excuse to make them female. They either create humanized versions that might as well be OCs (I hate species change on principle tbh) that will ALWAYS be female or they headcanon them as fem for no reason other than "non-human biology means they're women".
I honestly don't even see much trans stuff. It's usually feminization. Sometimes I encounter some lazy HC that tacks the trans label on to make it sound progressive, but it's literally just women/generic het because they cannot cope with pairings that aren't het shit.
AFAIK twink fans have the same issue. In their case they use the body type as excuse. They always find shit. If he's not human his biology must be female, if he looks weak he's female, if he's too pretty he's female, if he's too calm he's also female, every second fucking gay character is a woman.
The only guys relatively safe from that nonsense are masculine human ones. Have yet to see that shit for Smith(Bravern)/Isami, Dorohedoro and Vinland ships or Golden Kamuy, masculine adults from shounen series and so on. Which just further proves that it's all about self-inserting. They aren't into manly dudes so there is no need to hetbending it.
No.14140
>>14026> Hell even 4chan has fujos posting everywhere and that's Incel Central.Let me know when and where you found them, because there's no way there's still fujoshi posting on /y/ or /cm/.
No.14141
>>14140tbh the only fujos I encounter on 4chan are on /a/ or even /v/ in threads of their respective series or games or the weekly 801 thread. But the specific threads are better because they don't have the annoying whiny shits that hate modern anime because they aren't nurutu. Plus the few notorious posters that refuse to interact and just post the exact same screenshots/artworks every thread, at least two of them being yume.
/y/ and /cm/ could be cool but I have given up /y/ a long time ago for being slow as fuck and never about the characters or series I like and /cm/ is irrelevant for me since it's just shota and trap shit. Even when there is a casual thread about something else it's impossible to stir up any dialogues because the users are probably not even capable of understanding English and don't care and I don't need 4chan image dumps to find fanart in 2026.
No.14144
>>14140>Let me know when and where you found themNTA but there's a fujo in my current vidya general that I tried to poach over here and she didn't want to,
I also tried talking to her in private and she didn't want to either some people are just a little beyond autistic about not wanting to talk to anyone. They don't even post as much on that thread anymore beyond just imagedumping. Makes me sad….
No.14146
>>14141I'll never understand why /cm/ is still so image dump based, it's not like fanart is scattered across Japanese blogs anymore
No.14147
>>14146Not disagreeing with the main point but fanart scattered across twitter is still bad now imo, because people delete all the time and rarely tag so you need to already be following them.
No.14156
From another thread, but
>then add on people specifically feeling like they need to subvert 'toxic BL' tropes
This bothers me so much; it's so onmipresent throughout most modern western media and modern fanfic. If I never see another reference to a meme in a fanfic that takes place in 1700s France, I'll die happy. I think so many writers, particularly fic writers, are entirely caught up in what people think of them, that they end up kneecapping themselves to avoid a twitter callout.
They'll hate you no matter how you placate them; write what you want.
No.14159
Is anyone liking yaoi as coping for bad experience with shitty men?
I pretty much keeping distance from RL men except if they're amicable, tried yume myself with husbando but failed as I felt icky imagining myself getting fucked or fucking husbando but two hot guys fucking is way hotter for me.
No.14161
>>14159I think I do it because I am generally incapable of feeling any sort of interest or attraction towards real humans. But everybody has at least some vague interest in the concept of sexuality so I imagine it to be between fictional characters that I can get into. Never had a crush irl or an urge to have sekkusu.
>>14156Could it be related to the age of the fans and the IP they write fanfics for? I honestly barely see fics that aren't toxic by modern standards, be it dubcon or worse. That's true even for fics that are written for western video games. But I feel like most fans I read stuff of or talk to are at least in their late 20s. Though it might rather be about what kinds of fans a series tries to attract.
I can imagine that it would be a problem for stories that are vocal about being educative and "safe" like Steven Universe and the likes (I even enjoyed SU, but the fanbase must be horror). Games and non-mainstream anime are a big fucking filter that keeps the worst groups out because they're too retarded to download or find anime and too incompetent to play games besides phone slop.
No.14162
>>14159Not due to men, I just found it a lot more fun to read something about people/things that are different than me rather than something I'm supposed to just see myself in.
I used to like regular romcoms and het and I still do, but I find myself remembering just how fucking annoying antifujos are and it makes things a little annoying to me.
No.14164
>>14159No, I consider 2D and 3D men to be completely separate entities with no relation or bearing to each other. The appeal of yaoi is that 2D men are not subject to the same constraints or consequences as 3D irl men. A BPD-kun makes for compelling storytelling but is insufferable irl. Similarly, yaoi incest is hot as fuck in fiction but unnerving irl (because it is a reminder of men’s capacity for cruelty).
No.14165
>>14163yeah I like for those exact same reasons too lol
No.14166
>>14159Similar to
>>14164 I've never associated yaoi boys with irl men (even with RPF for some reason), they're just on another plane of existence and an indulgent fantasy to me. I don't have particularly have any bad experiences with men either. I've always gravitated toward homo shipping more because the same-sex relationships presented in series I watched were more compelling than the M/F ones.
No.14167
>>14166>I've always gravitated toward homo shipping more because the same-sex relationships presented in series I watched were more compelling than the M/F ones.Yeah. I'm a fan of a lot of historical settings too, and male characters just get to do more things in those sorts of settings, which makes them more compelling. Plus there's the overarching forbidden romance appeal. I've always found that self insertion is sorta cringe, and I've long since grown out of crushes on fictional characters.
I enjoy reading compelling stories about compelling characters in compelling relationships. Simple as.
No.14173
>>13915I know this is an old post, but I'm just now reading over this thread and I remember a few of those conversations playing out on LC.
Women who look to femdom because they have a sexually aggressive side should really get into yaoi instead. I'm convinced a lot of yaoi creators dominant-leaning women using it for an outlet because it's the best genre to express that in with not just one, but two men at once.
No.14175
It really feels like lately every (western) fujo account I see has the need to post about female characters/het ships every once in a while to fill some kind of a quota so that she can fight the male centered fujo allegations. It's always sort of been a thing where for example people tried to push the OT3 narrative for the rival het and yaoi ships, but since then it has gotten so much worse because now for every 10 fujo tweets, there'll be one guys i love [female character] so much! or i actually ship the het ship too! performative ass tweet. God forbid your series doesn't even have many relevant female characters, then you'll have them saying that the game/anime would be better if they added more girls or sometimes saying that a male character is totally bi and discussing his attraction to women.
I want to tell these people that it's really fine to just care about the gay ship, you're watching a series for fujos, you don't need to act above it. And some of them really believe that female characters existing and being in a relationship with the male mc equals being progressive and feminist, while liking yucky yaoi makes you misogynistic. And you know they don't actually care about female characters beyond using them for getting woke points because they never actually consume anything with full female casts or even yuri (even though they'll say that they love yuri the most and that they're basically settling for yaoi).
No.14176
>>14175I hate it too and it's so reduntant. I am drawing fanart of gay shit and male characters in general and never got attacked for it despite never making a single female post ever, let alone talking about how super important lesbian representation is. Nobody will attack you, so why do they think that way?
Japanese fans also don't give a shit. It looks like some sort of internalized guilt that gets triggered by not being feminist enough, cannot imagine that it's caused by socmedia, feels more like something they grew up with. I know 0 parents of my age so I have no idea how people raise their kids nowadays (I'm 30+). Though thinking about it I even see some people in their 30s making such posts.
No.14177
>>14175I used to mainly see this behaviour among turbolib Western cartoon fans (i.e. Voltron/ATLA, though tbh tbh the fans of the latter were the former that migrated), it's jarring to see animu fans act like that. Anime fans typically have a better understanding of target audiences/niches so they're fine with sticking to them. I wonder if the change is due to normies getting into weebshit during the quarantine.
>>14176They let xittertards get to their head too much, they think they'll get attacked the moment they don't prove themselves morally pure. I feel bad for them but at the same time if you post about yaoi, the majority of your followers will be fujos that don't give a shit about whether you meet some arbitrary feminist standard. I've only seen fujos get directly attacked over "cuck" art of female LIs and a M/M pairing.
No.14178
>>14177>the majority of your followers will be fujos that don't give a shit about whether you meet some arbitrary feminist standard.This is important. The one thing you have to make clear from the start when you're an artist is that you are fujo. My first fanarts on each of my fandom twitter accounts is some obvious gay shit, like two characters after the sex or I clarify from the start that I love the problematic villain.
The thing they do is counter productive because the more you try to come off as morally sound and feminist the harsher the followers will judge you and the more political fans you attract. It's "the Trump scheme". Certain politicians are open about their bullshit and scams from the start so they gets away with everything, while the ones that try to be perfect get shat on when they do a minor mistake (not talking about US politics in particular, I am not even American).
Now here we are even talking about fandoms, so you aren't hurting anybody by loving perverted characters. Just do it from the start. The dangerous users will never get near you then and even when they actually follow me they never dare to say anything. They retweet the few artworks they like and that's it while I see the same people then attacking somebody else because they are an easy target.
Don't be a target.
No.14180
>>14176It's essentially pointless, as anyone that wants to argue in bad faith will call you a fujo for the sake of their argument as long as they can find a single fujo fanart that you retweeted. Whether your account is 100% fujo or 1% fujo those people will use it against you either way, so might as well ignore them and just post whatever you want.
I saw someone posting that they feel bad about mostly engaging with yuri in the form of genderbent yaoi ships rather than actual yuri series and it was sad to see, people really let those worthless opinions affect their enjoyment of things.
>>14178Honestly I hate seeing het and if someone I followed for their M/M stuff starts posting too much about their performative het ship, *that* will put me off and I might even unfollow them as a result. I'm sure this approach just makes them lose their actual (fujo) audience, while the hetfags won't give them attention as they consider them enemies for posting anything gay in the first place. It's just a lose-lose no matter how you look at it. Probably stressful too to have to walk on eggshells constantly.
No.14181
>>14179You can tell this person loves to huff their own farts based on the vocabulary alone. That being said, I can also tell that are afraid of speaking on a phone.
No.14182
>>14179I do wish I have the energy and shamelessness of one of these anti-fujo/substack types to yap about the BL I love in verbose longform
No.14183
>>14175There's excessive gaslighting on fujos on Twitter forcing to like fem charas, hetshits and yurishits since feminists took over.
Though I like some fem charas & hetships out of self-interest, would forcing something make you hate it even more?
I met few nice hetfags who actually respect fujos, but that can't be said with obnoxious mandating yuritards.
So far I stumbled to one of fujo-friendly fandom ex. Record of Ragnarok, both fujos and hetshippers got along well, though the fandom kinda died down due to shit tier writing, also filled with yumes, no worries Ror yumes at least civil.
No.14184
>>14183*Manhating woke feminazi yuritards.
Nevertheless, Ror is still safe haven fandom for fujos, at least for now. Few non-yaoi fans were okay with Greek Gods including Apollo to be bi in hc. But some Ror yumes hated the valk though.
No.14185
>>14184Nah, I'd suspect that a good half of yuri fans are trannies and another quarter headcanon the taller one as trans. They're annoying but they do have the same problems that fujos do.
No.14188
>>14183As someone that also enjoys yuri and series that focus on female characters I can kinda provide a different perspective, but I really hate the same people you're talking about too. Some of them simply pretend to enjoy yuri because it's the most feminist according to twitter logic (there's TWO women compared to het where there's one and yaoi where there's zero) or they simply enjoy it as an 'aesthetic'. Not to mention how many hetfags like to use it to hide behind
liking ships that focus on WOMEN, even though their account is 99% het and then maybe one post about green yuri.
But I really hate the himes that try to push a rivalry between yuri and yaoi, and how they cry when a M/M ship has more fanfics on AO3 compared to their F/f one. And it's not like fujos are gonna write high quality fics for them even if they try to bully them into doing it.
No.14191
>>14183I honestly never meet these sorts of people. Maybe they are afraid of artists that don't engage with that shit but I also noticed that the ones that do it (like if I explicitly search for them or see them linked somewhere) they always happen to be talentless idiots so I assume that large chunk of the seethe comes from them being lazy talentless shits that demand others to make stuff for them.
WHAT I see is forced, feigned hatred towards problematic gay males. This isn't serious and it's often notably half-ironic but I hate how everybody acts as if they were forced to say it. "Yes I drew [guy] again, I FUCKING HATE HIM THOUGH, DIE!"
It's so fucking stupid holy shit just admit that you love the psychopathic serial killer and the mutated gay stalker as much as I do. Fucking insecurity man.
No.14193
>>14183Believe it or not Ror fandom had at least good yuri ships like Göndul x Lilith but still rare, it depends on shippers. The fem charas design were nice despite lack of screentime and agency except the main lead.
Ror knew main consumers; Fujos and Yumes that luckily got along, for now.
No.14194
My otp is a western fandom hated pairing and it irritates me like a bad bite when I see people tagging for it and saving pictures or stealing art to make endless posts about how it's wrong.
Have one real life problem. I'm begging
No.14198
I am convinced that some of the "gay = misogynist" idiots are actually het cis men. Not the first time it happened by there are at least two male tards in my current fandom who seethe non-stop about one of my men because he's a canon gay yan for MC and gets all the art and fanfics because fujos are the only ones capable of creating transformative work.
He even creates hate threads and literally says he's mad that he gets all the attention from fans. If you argue with him he will eventually resort to moralizations like the fandom being misogynist because they're not drawing his shitty waifus. I notice such guys in every fandom. They literally just coomers who demand fanart and hide their chimp outs behind progressive words.
It's kinda funny actually. Bitch, you literally complain about gay fans being talented. Maybe learn drawing yourself or tell your fellow waifu fags to create things for once instead of whining?
I outright told him I was drawing the guy in question right as we argued.
>>14194I fucking hate that too, especially because it's the exact same people who condemn "reposting" all day. But it's okay when they do it to dogpile an artist who doesn't even know that these assholes exists or to edit their art without asking. Bonus if the bullied artist is Asian again so that they have trouble even understanding the shit they get accused of.
No.14200
>>14198The adoption of therapy speak/"SJW" language to argue petty points is common and is another weapon in the armory of concern trolling. It's odd to see a man argue about shipping regardless, if only because they are much more likely to use gen AI to scratch whatever waifu itch they have.
No.14201
>>14200They are probably mad because the majority loves the gay character which they consider disgusting. The "no fanart" complaint might just be the attempt of rationalize it. Plus since the gay dude gets all the art it's what anons are usually posting when they discuss things in threads, so these two(?) cannot even discuss the plot without being reminded of the gay.
But whatever. Literally 99,9% of all media ever made panders to them, so maybe they should just fuck off or draw their own stuff to post if they can't deal with the fact that some few things are simply not for them. I see the same whining in threads about shoujo series and just everything that isn't aimed at the overfed het male and to a lesser degree trad het women.
I swear it's the same people that would elect Hitler himself if it just meant that nobody would make stories for women and gays anymore. Imagine that this was the biggest problem you had in life.
No.14205
>>14198>he's a canon gay yan for MC and gets all the art and fanfics because fujos are the only ones capable of creating transformative work>he will eventually resort to moralizations like the fandom being misogynist because they're not drawing his shitty waifusThis sounds pretty similar to one of my fandoms too, the gay character (and his ship with the MC) get the most fan content by far and it always leads to misogynist allegations about the fandom. Said character also gets the most merch/is favored when it comes to official stuff and it makes waifufags seethe.
I usually assume it's butthurt hetfags or homophobic yumes, but you're right that some of them might just be men that are mad about the lack of content of their waifu to coom to. They probably noticed that this way of bullying fujos is effective so they adapted the moralfag fandom speak. The especially sad thing is seeing women (pixel feminists) actually agree with them because they genuinely believe that sexy art of anime women is feminist.
No.14211
>>14205I wonder why male hetfags, waifufags, yuritards & yumefags so homophobic, also misogynistic to fujos?
Didn't help himetards misogynistic to fujos too.
So much for 'women should support/love other women' except when it comes to fujos.
No.14212
>>14205>Said character also gets the most merch/is favored when it comes to official stuff and it makes waifufags seethe.And they would never buy the merch of the waifu if it existed.
>>14211It's a purely ideological war about dominance. For some reason the privileged always fear a loss of relevancy whenever something doesn't pander to them specifically and try to shut it down by any means.
These people seethe and make fun whenever some tumblr users demands representation as if this was some autistic concept when all these people are about is representation. If there is no het they get mad, same for non-white MCs and every story in which the MC doesn't act the exact same way the stupid audience demands them to. See all the chimpouts whenever a MC rejects a waifu or doesn't massacre everybody that was mean to them once because it's what the otaku would do.
No.14214
>>14212explains why the same tumblr/x users seethe whenever the MC is not literally them, the unique gender neutral latinx self-dx snowflakes
No.14215
>>14175 It's normies getting into anime and overlapping with the discourse that's usually found in Western live action fandom about fics "erasing women" and being representation. Anime isn't a niche anymore, your fic is about representation. You are harming fellow women if you don't include the female character and give them enough het fics so they can self-insert. Ships like Naruto/Sasuke would never be able to take off today. If it didn't have that long history of coming out when ignoring canon was more accepted in fujo spaces because people knew that their ships were never going to be canon, it wouldn't be popular today. The rise of the AO3 yearly discourse didn't help either. Now fandom isn't so much a community but it's a culture for everyone to comment on. It's bad with anime with less media aimed towards fujos, and now gachas where the popular ones involve either having to share a space with schizo yumes and yuritards, or they just ban the possibility of BL shipping altogether.
No.14220
Not exactly venting but one thing that Westerners love doing that I absolutely do not understand is the changing of canon character designs in their art. Like.. WHY? Is it because they consider it dishonorable to copy existing designs and feel like they have to turn it into their own super special versions™?
I am not talking about style, everybody has their own and that's great! What I mean are explicit additions of issues they canonically don't have. Be it carnivorous teeth, skin issues, scars, extra eyes, different bodytype, animal traits or medical conditions related to the face.
Like just draw what's there, (wo)man. Use whatever style you want but don't make the characters uglier than they are.
I am not even the sparkling bishounen guy, some of the dudes I love are weird and ugly lol, another one I love technically has a cleft lip (human with :3 mouth who isn't supposed to be cute), just don't add stuff for characters that don't have it for no reason at all.
No.14228
>>14221I agree. Sometimes I'll see an artist draw a character as fat when it's both noncanon and nonsensical and it pretty much seems to come down to tumblr-style virtue signalling or self-validation. Also one of my fave male characters is sometimes being drawn or modded with 'black guy hair' because parts of the fandom decided he's black now even though his canon hairstyle looks nothing like that.
No.14236
>>14220its self inserting, they draw the characters with things they have irl to make them like themselves.
No.14238
>>14237I love unrequited love and every single fic is always "actually unrequited" just tag slow burn or anything else but the one thing that means one sided.
It's like people cannot comprehend a longterm story genuinely being one sided as most of what I find is under the length of a longfic.
No.14239
>>14238>"actually unrequited"Forgot the not actually part.
No.14240
>>14238It's crazy the few times I do find unrequited love it's on accident & untagged and the tags imply it's mutual kek. I don't get the point of that tag because as you said there are other tags that better and more straightforwardly explain that concept. I can only imagine if it's multi-chapter it may have been an author baiting and being like "will they-won't they?" and when the fic is finished they add the other tag.
>cannot comprehend a longterm story genuinely being one sidedYes! I'm at the point where I'm just reading "&" relationship fics and reading too much into the subtext because they manage to give off the vibe better. I think what we want does exist it's just likely to be untagged or in a genfic tbh which sucks balls because I guess for some people if a relationship doesn't bear any fruit the fic should focus on other things/it wouldn't appeal to people looking through that fic tag. Which is dumb, but I do get some authors get bothered and passive-aggressive comments when people fail to read the tags and realize it doesn't have a wholesome happy ending, so it may be to avoid that. Here's to us in future finding what we want!.
>>14239I wish what that anon misspoke was actually a commonly used tag.
No.14242
>>14179Was Ouran for fujos? It was a long time ago and I never got past the first episodes. It felt more like a parody that was dedicated to be an het romcom.
>>14214Autism and narcissism.
>>14238I feel that one in my bones. They want to be le funny and quirky with their AO3 tags but they're just crosstagging. They could also just use "not actually unrequited". That's fine and it baits no one.
No.14244
>>14243This person likes Aphmau whose a youtuber who makes incredibly childish content, so I assume they're a kid. I think it's funny they don't realize majority of users are adults with a job, this is just a hobby. How else would ao3 be able to be funded year after year and meet it's funding goal so quickly? This person doesn't have to use the website and they can still enjoy fandoms w/o it. Every single platform has the kind of stuff they complain about on it, ao3 just makes it easier to find and it's associated with women who other girls & women unconsciously realize are easier to bully into stopping than say some place like Baraag. Also funny to hear this from someone using twitter, get off the socmed platform owned by Musk before you try and moralfag about anything.
No.14246
>>14245Woah how was it $250? When I get stuff from Japan I'm usually charged by weight. Aren't doujin pretty lightweight? Though I've never bought manga before through a proxy. The covers look nice though, feast well when they arrive nonna.
No.14247
>>14246I got some other stuff and the 250 is including proxy fees, tariffs also just be like that kek.
No.14248
I know I shouldn't be reading the dumpster fire that is mangago or any piracy site comment sections but I was curious given some of the drama that happened in a recent chapter and caved in.
I cannot believe there are still retards who demand women in BL. The author already does not treat the female characters that appear wrong, only depicting the pickme and permissive mother character as bad (which it should be). The person complains how it's getting so boring between the two gay characters (shit opinion, it's not) and how there was "promise" of the MC's ex-wife with another male character and why wasn't that explored. Like, what? There was no fucking promise, just a little hint that her life will get better without having to explain yourself later. This isn't a fucking queer book, it's a BL and the protagonists and main event for a BL is between two men. I fucking hate how these fakejoshis come into our genre and start demanding for het or female characters in general to be the first and foremost in the story. You're barking up the wrong tree, so go fuck off to your villainess isekai or whatever the hettie betties are reading these days.
No.14249
>>14214I hate so much when they do this and use the tumblr style. It's a hell because on the one hand you have the ones that bimbofy everything, especially female characters with cool, unusual body types to turn them into sexy anime waifus and on the other hand you have the tumblr brigade that makes everybody as ugly as humanly possible.
It's especially sad because a bunch of these artists draw the characters so fucking hot or cute whenever they stick to the canon design. But then they have to force in 10 disgusting tumblr pics again which make me cringe just browsing their profile.
No.14250
>>14243These people always tell others to touch grass when they are obviously the most terminally online guys you will ever meet.
Most fanfic readers are people with jobs or at least a life who open AO3 every now and then to read some hot fic of their favorite ship. Meanwhile people like Blue participate in a million hot topic fandom talks a day, scan AO3 for hours to get mad at tags and then claim random readers were responsible for the holocaust because they fap to some 2D villain.
The thing I do if someone like that ever contacts me per DM or seethes on 4chan is that I tell them "whatever, still enjoy drawing him/them" and show them a screenshot of my gay WIP.
No.14251
>>14248Which manga/manhwa?? Sounds interesting to read both the story and the comments kek
No.14252
>>14251Even in your Death/ Die in my arms by Jinan, a manhwa. The bottom is yandere obsessed and the top has a lot of characterization and a sad past.
No.14253
>>14252Isn't this the same one where many fans want them to be vers because the uke is a very atypical one? This is the one time as a versfag I don't want them to be out of spite.
No.14254
>>14252Thank you! ♡
I'll start reading it today if everything goes well
No.14255
>>14253The same one. They can't fathom having an uke that doesn't act like the rest or a top who has softer tendencies.
>>14254Hope you enjoy!♡
No.14256
>>14255I went ahead and started reading it (I'm on chapter 3), it's so good!! Thanks for recommending it ♡♡
Really fresh and exciting, imo at least.
Now I kinda understand why anons here complain about ukes/uke-centric stories feeling the same and how the top's always reduced to just a sentient dick kek.
Hopefully mgm commenters don't get what they want, it would be a waste to switch them.
No.14257
>>14245Whenever the next COMIC CITY event rolls around I always find myself buying at least more than one doujin kek. It's so worth it though
>>14246NTAYRT but the expensive cost of shipping doujins comes more from whatever proxy is shipping it to you. Let's say a proxy service has a flat fee of 500 yen per item. If I wanted to buy 10 doujins I would already have to pay up 5000 yen. Adding onto this with the doujin's original price and domestic shipping within Japan makes it even worse. On the bright side post-tariffs my doujins have never been affected as they are classified as duty free.
No.14258
>>14248>start demanding for het or female characters in general to be the first and foremost in the story.It was always yumes/hetshippers who end up attracted to the characters in yaoi and the artstyle of the author, they can't help but desperately wish it was a lads type story with every guy having the hots for a self insert female character.
Once you understand this every "critique" of bl will make sense.
No.14259
>>14258Every "critique" of BL really is why not het lmao just disguised in different ways.
No.14261
>>14260This person is so close to realising that the whole obsessive gender ideology is stupid to begin with.
No.14263
>>14262She's absolutely fucking based for this. Can't wait for this to be posted on mgg, the meltdown in the comments is gonna be hilarious.
No.14264
>>14263You can't help but to think these questions got addressed because people wouldn't shut the fuck up about them. She's amazing for answering it head on. And I, too, look forward to the mgg melties.
No.14266
>>14262Absolutely basado.
No.14267
BL "critiques"
>have you considered that het exists? you don't have to erase the female character
>why not make the uke female if you project on him anyways
>why watch men fuck each other when you can make them want YOU instead
>it's misogynistic to hate (ignore) the female characters
>fandom is full of yaoi and it makes me sad because i like het
No.14269
>>14268i'll post stuff after you if that helps
No.14270
>>14267>fandom is full of yaoi and it makes me sad because i like hetThis one annoys me the most. Just write your own stuff! You know why the fandom is full of yaoi? Because the fujos wrote their own stuff! It's like they expect an endless wellspring of talented women to write/draw their specific ship. Commission it or do it yourself!
>it's misogynistic to hate (ignore) the female charactersThis one is also annoying because I would rather that my fave female characters just not exist in fandom, rather than get mischaracterized as motherly-types or get drawn with tits bigger than their heads by pervy men.
No.14271
>>14269That's very nice of you. I just need someone to tell me that it's okay to be perverted on this site.
No.14272
>>14271it's okay to be perverted in general ♥
No.14274
>>14269>>14272I love you fujochan!!!
No.14283
>>14281Nona, I need you to know I've been happily reading every update in that thread and I'm so grateful to you and anyone else participating in it. You should go for the smut if you want to!
>>14279You're right, I guess it's time to open up my old yaoi folders.
No.14285
Just saw an uke's anus referred to as his tunnel. Why.
>>14284That I can do.
No.14287
>>14286Kek, so much for MUH BISEXUAL REPRESENTATION when a male character cheats/leaves the woman for a guy. I guess bisexuality only matters when the faggot leaves his man for a woman.
>>14283Thank you nonnie, I shall! I'm glad you're enjoying that thread!
No.14288
>>14285Better than it getting called a pussy.
No.14289
>>14287>I guess bisexuality only matters when the faggot leaves his man for a woman.Yup, and I've even READ BL like this and no one moralfags about it they're just like "wow how sad/what a cheating bitch" they don't try and discern your views of actual bisexuals/gays from reading about that kind of thing. People are so concerned with the portrayal of women in a genre made by and for women it's odd, as if a lot of romance shojo/josei doesn't also rely on making a lot of the female characters around the MC complete psychos to make the MC look better/innocent.
>MUH BISEXUAL REPRESENTATION Yeah you're right I've been hearing a vocal minority for a while now get upset that bisexual characters only end up in same-sex relationships, even in m/m/f love triangles, and its like first of all the average het fan does not want to see the MC be even a little gay so that leaves these kind of characters only to be in genres appealing to yaori fans who are obviously gonna root for the same sex partner. Secondly, and I'm not sure how to word this but sometimes the whole story is written very differently depending on which partner is end-game, and a lot of hetcoom tropes pop up when the het LI does win, these situations kind of end up revealing the "distance" with which m/f couples are written and then relying on the infantilization of the women, while the same sex couple acts more naturally if that makes sense? Idk this is just something I've noticed in the few bisexual love triangles I read but by default it's going to alienate a lot of people.
No.14290
>>14289>vocal minority for a while now get upset that bisexual characters only end up in same-sex relationshipsThis rarely even happens. It's always the other way around and if anyone says anything about it, people respond with the typical "bisexuals in m/f relationships are still bisexual" spiel. I remember this discourse happened with Laurent from Great Pretender. He was stated to be bisexual but you'd only ever see him flirt with women in the show and his ex was a woman, besides that it was just lame gaybait with Edamura.
No.14291
>>14290Yeah the common criticism I see is "Characters are canonically bi for diversity points but we only see them express opposite-sex attraction to play it safe", which I remember was a criticism for some Loki series a while back
No.14292
>>14258>end up attracted to the characters in yaoi and the artstyle of the authorThat's my core theory for why yume and hets latch onto gay. Gay characters (be it bromances, hinted gay/gay fanservice or actually obviously gay) are simply the better written male characters and since fujo series don't pander to waifu fags they ironically have the better written women too because they're not drawn and acting like 12 year old moe blobs.
It's simply a market niche and demand for men that mostly only fujo series fill. Fujo pandering series (including seinen like Golden Kamuy) simply ALLOW the men to have fanservice, do sexy things, have feelings, close friendships and break down and such. Something het pandering shows don't because the men are either evil rivals that the author projects their school bullies into or they're insecure, alternatively CHAD and soulless self-inserts.
There is nothing going for them, they're just there to win and fuck or to be adored by the girls. And the women are just there for cheap tradwaifu, loli or "nerd girrl" fanservice.
No.14294
>>14290>>14291NTA but perhaps it is rare for now, but I saw a huge mask-off moment in one manhwa where near the end of the second season, the bottom was revealed to still desire and pine for the wife and flat out leave the top in hopes to rekindle their relationship because his retarded masculinity or self-esteem or whatever. You wouldn't believe the amount of fakejoshis who began to draw the straight pairing and talk about "Um bisexuality exists??? It belongs in BL" from all sides of the fandom, eastern and western. The accusations of misogyny in general were thrown around, even saying how BL mistreats women (this isn't the early 2000s, jfc and it wasn't THAT common either)
They weren't covert making their distaste for the top or any of the gay content obvious. And to think there were others who laughed at the topfags who where having their melties over this. I mean it's a fucking BL, of course the fujos are going to panic at the sudden revelation that the FEMALE character has a CHANCE in the contest. I don't know why this is considered bad on the fujos' behalf but forgivable to the secret hetties.
No.14295
>>14294So irritating to me that "Bisexuality exists and belongs in BL" is used to excuse the bi character being put in a het relationship. Why can't that be true but with a bi character being monogamously attached to a dude? Isn't it unwoke/stereotypical/whatever to have bi characters in these roles?
No.14296
>>14294How did that get resolved? I don't like things like that but I guess it's cheap drama that can work for some chapters and then double down on the Real True Love between the main OTP, or the seme fucks the shit out of the uke he never thinks about pussy again.
No.14297
>>14295>>14294It's these sorts of reactions that make me leery to have a bi character who has a history with women in my stuff. Even if it's clear that the bi guy would never go back to her/pick a woman over his current relationship, annoying yumes and fakes would latch onto it in a heartbeat.
No.14299
>>14297First AYRT, me personally I actually have a story where all three members of the yaoi love triangle are bi with one having an extensive line of ex gfs. I'm super cool with bi dudes in yaoi as long as they don't do what you describe, especially if they contrast with a gay character who's all in on the relationship while the bi one is getting pussy withdrawal
No.14300
>>14297Majority of my OCs are bisexual so I get your concern too, especially as I've written them having close f/f & m/m relationships & friendships as I think that's interesting even if the endgame for all of them is a same-sex partner. I used to think just being loud about the fact that it's a yaoi/yuri would deter these people but the drama with the Egyptian BL clearly proved that wrong kek. It's weird that so many heterosexual preferring bisexuals take out so much of their anxiety about being OSA towards yaoi/yuri ships to the point where they're like "don't say this bi character is in a het relationship it's a QUEER one you're erasing their sexuality you can't call it hetslop!" Which is beyond retarded but what else is expected from the same group of people who don't believe in exclusive same sex attraction, as if having hypothetical attraction to the same sex will change that you're in a relationship with the opposite sex.
No.14301
>>14296So because it's a magical/gods BL, there was some magical shenanigans with the wife that split her in half. Anyway long story short, once the two halves were united, she immediately told him "No way fag, you're a bad person for the bad things you did. I can't get with you like that. I love you as a brother though."
That's how the author "resolved" the problem and the bi bottom began to cry like a big baby that he maimed his top horrifically all because of some misunderstanding and he loved him all along, but this is all because he has bad self-esteem and was raped before. In the end, people still double-downed on the hetshit and continued to call the fujos misogynists for disliking it. It was the stupidest cop out.
>>14300>the Egyptian BL Right on the money, kek. What a fucking shitshow. Even the KR fanbase was seething in their secret forums. In the end, the fujos ultimately lost due to the poor writing and the infiltration of the wokies and fakejoshis pining for the bottom slut.
No.14302
>>14301Yikes. I really enjoyed the first season. Glad I haven't gotten around to reading the second.
No.14303
>>14294>bisexuality exists??? It belongs in BLwat. It's literally called
BOYS LOVE.
Where the fuck is the girls in it? lol.
No.14304
>>14303I don't mind it if it serves the story, but the endgame should unequivocally be BL. There shouldn't be a question that that two(+) guys end up together. If there's enough material that yumes and fakejoshis can make a decent argument for the m/f ship, then the author's failed at writing a BL.
No.14308
>>14304This. And that was ultimately the issue with that manhwa. The author was flying way too close to the sun with her current skill level and the fandom gassing up the series to be "literature" while not noticing its pitfalls, and she touched a subject/trope most BL writers refuse to write (bisexual with lingering feelings for the woman/the woman being a strong contender for the race) because it's legitimately hard to not come across as the love between the men as false or flimsy. It has its place in a "queer" romance but in a BL, it's crazy hard to break this rule and frankly it's OKAY that there's a rule, spoken or unspoken. Genre rules can be broken but some rules have to be set in stone otherwise it's no longer that a genre. That Egyptian manhwa was stupidly close to entering dangerous territory, and it was "saved" by the author going "She said no because I said so."
No.14313
>>14294>>14286The funny part is that all these retards the moment the guy that cheat on his wife comes out as trans will immediately go from "protect the wife!" to "omg poor trans baby, the wife has to be supportive "
lol let them get angry at imaginary fictional couples drama thou
No.14314
>>14304I'm trying to think of situations in which I'd be ok with bisexuality in BL and I can think of two options. 1. One of the guys is a widower/divorced with a cute child who gets to interact with dad's new boyfriend. 2. One of the guys thinks he's straight but then a man sweeps him off his feet.
No.14316
>>14308>That Egyptian manhwa was stupidly close to entering dangerous territory, and it was "saved" by the author going "She said no because I said so."From what I've gleaned, it seems to have been a case of 'I can't love you after anymore what you've done' vs 'I love you in spite of what you've done'. Handled by a better author (with a better audience. tbh. I think the blame does partly fall on the readers/hetshippers for this one…), that could be some amazing writing. Oh well.
>>14314I don't mind failed marriages/relationships, with the seme swooping in to pick up the pieces. That's got a lot of opportunity for some drama and interesting plots. I'm not a fan of 'evil cheating girlfriend', but done otherwise I think it could work. The bi guy just being unable to maintain a relationship with a woman because what he really wants is a man has potential.
No.14319
I like writing and reading omegaverse stuff, but I never interacted with general western english speaking fans of it, just people in series fandoms or when discussing published BL. Most of the stuff I read is from jp/kr users, but because grok is all languages now and I kept looking at posts about BL the algorithm started sending me english language omegaverse posts. They're not bad but they just miss the mark for me and I mentally correct them to my tastes. Then after a few weeks of it I started being sent ones with very different language. Ones which started talking about pussy, cunt, and "pups". I always thought that shit was a myth because I'd gone years consuming omegaverse without encountering any of it and I even went some weeks reading eng tweets without seeing it either. None of the fandom specific ones have ever had it. But then suddenly it was there. I don't know why but "pups" grossed me out the most. The ones that use "pussy" and "cunt" are always a single line and amount to "he fuck him in the pussy" and nothing more so they're really easy to scroll by. The pup ones will be whole thread stories where you don't see it coming.
>>14248I dared to look at pirate site comments on something I was reading yesterday. A mod on the site had posted a meme image and people had replied to them to ask:
>why is your name green?>what's a mod?>wait mods read stuff on here too?>how do i get green name?There were multiple people confused by the word "mod." Everyone else was spamming the words "aura" and "just like solo leveling." I'm never trying this again. In comparison if you read official app comments on not-BL webtoons you'll find half or more of them will be people going "sorry I ship them" and "did I miss a BL tag? (blushing emoji)" Sometimes that's the only comments and you can basically high five all the other readers by lewd talking a random butler.
No.14320
>>14316It wasn't so much "can't love you anymore" more like "I don't love you anymore" which absolves the woman and takes her out of the race. The male character still pined, still dreamed of having that marriage with a wife and child, still wants that life with said family, still wants to have his son back, etc. Coming to the conclusion that "well I guess I loved my top all along actually" does not change the tension and angst the bottom felt at the prospect of getting his wife back.
I'm sure a more competent writer could have achieved it, but I do think it's kind of hard given the genre and the genre expectations for BL.
>I think the blame does partly fall on the readers/hetshippers for this one…I think it's a mixture of both the author's lack of skill and the fans, but really I don't think the fujos should have received any blame for their reactions when the author was genre-fucking BL and the hetties had a shitton of ammunition against the lead top.
No.14321
>>14320>but really I don't think the fujos should have received any blame for their reactions when the author was genre-fucking BL and the hetties had a shitton of ammunition against the lead top.Totally agree. There's bucking genre conventions and then there's lying about the genre to attract an audience and then immediately screwing them over. I think authors know at this point that fujos are the most likely group to produce hype and fanart/etc, so fujobaity appeals seem even more mercenary than before.
No.14323
>>14320>>14316>>14301I’m not usually a fan of “second love” stories but the focus on them is specifically the character moving on and developing a better relationship with the love interest. If the writer spends too much time having the character pine over their first love to the point it overshadows the love interest it’s completely failed as a romance in the first place. This goes regardless even outside of BL and even if the “past love” and love interest are both male.
No.14324
>>14294Awareness of gay erasure leaving a fakejoshi's body the moment a straight relationship gets implied for the bottom. I really started resenting BL webtoons becoming so mainstream after I saw people begging for a female love interest for webtoon protagonists because "who's up for a bisexual headcanon??" and if you thought it was insensitive you got told off for being "biphobic". Like everyone can see you being way more enthusiastic for the prospects of a straight ending, we know what you are.
>The accusations of misogyny in general were thrown around, even saying how BL mistreats women (this isn't the early 2000s, jfc and it wasn't THAT common either) Yeah I've read BL since the early 2000's and I literally never saw this much claimed misogyny enough to consider it a staple in the genre. I really can't even name any prolific series off the top of my head where a woman has been treated as a villain or even a rival but coincidentally many times they consider a female character being supportive as "misogyny" because "she's just being treated as a plot device to advance the main couple's relationship!". Damned if you do and damned if you don't.
No.14325
>>14324>Yeah I've read BL since the early 2000's and I literally never saw this much claimed misogyny enough to consider it a staple in the genreI got the impression it's way more common for shoujo manga to have a stereotypical jealous bitch character to the point that it spawned the otome game villainess genre even though it's not even a common thing in otome games.
No.14326
>>14304>>14308>Genre rules can be broken but some rules have to be set in stone otherwise it's no longer that a genre.Fully agree. "Queer romance" is a genre separate from BL with its own framework and if you're writing a BL story then its endgame should be a relationship between male characters. That's literally the definition of the genre. It can be fantasy, action, modern day drama, historical drama, scifi, but the male romance aspect stays. Authors bargaining on that ONE defining trait is annoying as hell, either commit or do something else.
>>14321I've been thinking about this too. People trying to sneak in hetslop via bait and switch after getting all hyped up by fujos dedicated to supporting their series only works once though and after that they will drop it like a hot potato never to return again. And then they accuse fujobait of not selling well after disappointing the people carrying the entire franchise kek
No.14327
The misogyny accusations over female characters not being the subject of romances is crazy when you think that misogyny in media is literally defined by the Bechdel test. You know fiction treats women as personalities with individual roles opposed to sex objects BECAUSE you can have female characters who aren't tied to any romance, not talking about men as relationship interest and move freely without causing every retard to blush and get a boner.
These people crave classic misogynist media where the very existence of a woman means she has to be the subject of fanservice and shipping lol
I am so fucking grateful for series like Ghost in the Shell, Golden Kamuy, Dorohedoro and so on where women can hang out with men without being insecure twats about it, blush or get a crush because a man was nice to them once. Fuck people who want to erase such media because they crave their shitty Twilight romance and are jelly of fujos because they can draw.
No.14328
>>14325That's not even an otome game trope, the real trope would be the mandatory female bff that hangs out with the MC. It's from Angelique and even then, that character is a mere rival who can potentially befriend the MC and not a villainess. But since it's the most influencial otome game it had parodies by shojo manga and otome game fans who exaggerated that trope for plot reasons or for comedy, which were eventually copied by people who have no clue what otome games are. Even in popular shojo manga with a turbo bitch who bullies the MC you have like a dozen of other female characters with plenty of different roles and personalities.
No.14329
>>14325it is, that's literally where the trope of the "villainess" comes from.They formed subgenre of manga over the villainess shoujo trope lol
No.14330
>>14328The girl in angelique is not a friend thou, she literally acts like an over the top pretentious and full of themsevels rival to the mc, which was specifically made to drive home how bad she was compared to the pure heroine.
>Even in popular shojo manga with a turbo bitch who bullies the MC you have like a dozen of other female characters with plenty of different roles and personalities.Can you name any? because usually side characters that never develop and just appear randomly don't really count
No.14331
>>14330Nta but the most popular shoujo ever, Hana Yori Dango.
I hate the jealous woman that tries to get inbetween the main couple trope regardless if it's in shoujo or BL but I have to say I hate it more in BL. And don't get me wrong, I'll happily hate a female character who gets inbetween my yaoi ship as long as the ship isn't a canon couple. It does feel misogynistic when female characters in BL are written as dumb whores or homophobes or something. Like why would you not just make the character male instead? I don't need women in BL, either make them a supportive friend or family member or leave them out entirely.
No.14332
>Why do fujos make everything gay? How would you feel if I made your BL characters straight? Leave us alone!!!
*5 seconds later*
>All of fandom is just fujos :( There’s nothing for us :( Why do I always have to get fag shit stuffed down my throat :( Why is there so much why :(
No.14333
>>14330>Can you name any? because usually side characters that never develop and just appear randomly don't really countJust on top of my head, only counting recurring characters and/or plot relevant characters because side characters who only show up for one or two chapters aren't what we're talking about, there's
>Fruits Basket and other manga by the same author>Nana (although everyone has an insanely low IQ in this one so the female characters are annoying in their own stupid ways), Gokinjo Monogatari and Paradise Kiss>Mirai no Utena which reminds me that I should read Please Save my Earth someday since it's by the same author>Cardcaptor Sakura and Magic Knight Rayearth but maybe magical girls anime are a bit too easy>Tokyo Babylon and X in particular since they have a canon gay pairing and I've seen people joking about X and how they thought Kotori was supposed to become Kamui's love interest until her brother murders her and starts groping Kamui but she's still conscious in the afterlife/dream world somehow>Angel Sanctuary>Lovely Complex>Beauty Pop on top of my head but it's been a while since I read it. I just learned it had a brand new sequel today actually even though it's the least famous one in the list>a few old shojo sports anime from the 80s I watched on TV a long time ago, but I don't know their original titles because the localization. I do remember Attacker You! which is basically Haikyuu but with girls One shojo manga I remember where the heroine had a crazy annoying mentally ill female character was Peach Girl though. I only read the first 3 volumes long ago but Sae pissed me off too much for me to keep reading it. Hana Yori Dango is kind of in-between, it slowly introduces a few female characters who are nice or friendly to the MC, one of them bullies the MC but eventually becomes her friends
after a murder attempt by getting her tied and dragged by a car but the manga eventually becomes too long and repetitive so it introduces a girl a who's obsessed with the MC's love interest even after she's rejected by him and then the guy's mother shows up and makes the manga so long and repetitive it ruined the last third of the manga for me. There are cases I didn't mention like Otomen because almost all the characters are men and the only important female characters are the love interest who's autistic just to make sure she doesn't date the MC too early in the story, and the MC's mother whose ex husband/the MC's father trooned out and dumped her, and made her a single mother so she acts as an obstacle for the MC not being a super manly man.
No.14334
>>14330>Can you name any? because usually side characters that never develop and just appear randomly don't really countIt's not shoujo, but this does bring to mind Inuyasha and Kikiyo. Obviously, Kikiyo isn't just the evil bitch side character trying to steal Kagome's man,
but you would never know that if you interacted with the fandom at all. I'm never sure if this sort of characterization is inherent to the manga itself, or if it's just the fandom.
No.14335
Half annoyed, half amused over the usual coping mechanism of gay haters when something/someone gay appears in a piece of media that they expected to only pander to them specifically. Shit I keep seeing:
>The gay shit is only added as a joke lol don't you get it? It's making fun of it because it's cringe and retarded fujo take it seriously
Happens quite often to me, because a lot of gays and gay ships I like are funny, usually because the series themselves are funny lol. I guess none of the million romcoms are het either because the romances are conveyed in a funny way too. Often related to:
>his love is supposed to be creepy, it's not positive. He's like the ugly rapist rival in a harem series, it's portrayed as bad and scary.
Usually happens when the gay one is an antagonist. Also, the classic:
>it's supposed to portray a deep friendship and fujos sully it by projecting their shit into it. Can't you see that the series spent multiple episodes/hours on a developing slowburn where the character realises that the best friend is the most important person in their life? It's a series about friendship. It's not the same as [character] hanging out with [character of the opposite sex] once, which is obviously romantic love.
And if nothing helps because it's obviously gay AND there is no joke involved it's either:
>he just obsesses over him because what he did in the past, the gender doesn't matter at all he isn't gay, not everything is about sex
or, if the author makes clear that it IS gay:
>woke garbage paid by Soros, you're literally a tranny if you like that, fuck trannies and shills
You even find the tranny = everybody who is attracted to 2D men allegations in women dominated spaces like lolcow and the likes.
No.14336
>>14322>>14332I really feel like this phenomenon comes from post-covid fandom behavior where people got into ACGN media without knowing like… fandom ettiquete that has existed for years. They like anime men, they only know hetslop romance stories, they try convincing themselves to like BL because it's what's popular but eventually "move on" either because they prefer to be a yume and husbandofag, or they're a ultra turbodyke who hates "centering on men" or because they fall for the "fujos are fetishizers" propaganda.
They always make it a 'what about the women' issue when it's just them barely hiding their contempt for gay shit. This includes hating buttsex and replacing it for PIV too.
No.14337
>>14294>(this isn't the early 2000s, jfc and it wasn't THAT common either)I know you guys were talking about actual romance series, but I wanted to piggyback off this discussion to mention the fact that, ironically, some of the most infamous toxic ship wars and anti-female characters attitudes I've seen in fandoms were for canon romances in non-romance focused series.
>ichihime vs ichiruki>tifa vs aerith>zutara vs kataang>naruhina vs narusaku vs sasusaku>pokeanime fans endlessly debating which female companion was better for ashThese are some of the ones that come to mind when I think of older fandom ship wars, it was mostly het vs het (and yaoi vs. yaoi/yuri vs. yuri), also worth remembering that plenty of people were openly homophobic and that was the main reason they discredited same-sex ships. It's actually crazy how easy it is for people to exaggerate certain aspects of old fujo behavior (ie fanfiction written by young, not-so-talented teenagers who thought they had to get rid of the canon love interests in their stories somehow) and create an endless array of windmills that they gaslight everyone into thinking are giants.
No.14338
>>14336>They always make it a 'what about the women' issue Funny how they're so fucking quick to cry about "muh women" in BL but when there's an antagonistic female character in hetslop or just a cardboard cutout friend to the female protag, they say nothing. Very fucking interesting indeed.
No.14339
>>14337>zutara vs kataang>naruhina vs narusaku vs sasusakuDoubling the topic change but people revising history about these ship wars into it only being fujos who hated Sakura/Katara for getting in the way of ships is so annoying to me. Fujos are treated as the primary haters of female characters when it's a mix of dudebros (everyone in general) hating said character for being useless and/or annoying, husbando self-inserters, and other het rival shippers. But fujos get all the blame nowadays for whatever reason.
No.14340
>>14337>These are some of the ones that come to mind when I think of older fandom ship wars, it was mostly het vs het (and yaoi vs. yaoi/yuri vs. yuri), also worth remembering that plenty of people were openly homophobic and that was the main reason they discredited same-sex ships.Agree. I don't remember a lot of yaoi vs het ship wars from the 00's, probably the most prolific one was narusasu and narusaku and I feel like everyone always brings that up to justify the claim that fujos hate female characters when the fact is that a lot of narusaku shippers were just openly homophobic as you said due to the climate of the time. It was very common for them to simultaneously make fun of Sakura for being a dumb bitch while writing tirades about how NARUTO IS NOT A FAGGOT!!!!!! because being a homosexual was the most degrading insult they could think of. The female characters were just anti-gay barriers to them.
No.14343
>>14333The mangas you mentioned are popular specifically because they are the exception to the trope, like tokyo babylon since it's a huge outlier.
That's not the same thing as the average shojo not having the only other important female as the villainess since as I said, is directly taken from shoujo/otome tropes.
Plus the shoujo you listed are almost all modern.
Now if you take shoujo from the 70s you have Candy Candy, Lady Lady, Glass mask, Lady Georgie, Hana no Ko Lunlun, Princess Sara (which was based on the book and Lavinia specifically was made ten times more evil for the anime while in the book she just sidedyes Sara sometimes), Magical girl Creamy (which had a spinoff manga years later by another author just because they felt bad for the villainess), and dear brother which obviously counts.
There is also comedy light hearted shoujos like Ufo no baby and Mirumo and the only non-main female character there is the rival which is basically made to be mocked every single time.
I also don't understand why BL needs to have multiple female characters if we just went over how the focus should be the BOYS LOVE, and if we want female characters we could simply, I don't know, switch genre????
Like people need their buffet? Do I go into a genre wanting every single genre ever? Do i go into scifi wanting dark fantasy?
This is clearly because they NEED the female character in order to relate to the story and get that sweet sweet straight romance that apparently they can't go 5 seconds without lol
And they say fujos are the coomers lol
No.14344
>>14343>Do i go into scifi wanting dark fantasy?Totally off topic but Marginal functionally does this in reverse. I wonder what a scifi rugpull into dark fantasy would look like? That could be super interesting in the right hands.
No.14345
>>14344>scifi rugpull into dark fantasycould be interesting from a futuristic religious cult angle.
No.14347
>>14345Oooh, Deus ex machina but real.
No.14348
>>14337you forgot about the biggest ship war there was.
Asuka vs Rei, and It's still going strong.
>pokemonyeaah it reminds me that Pokemon fans really hated Serena, so much that the storyboarder Akemi Omode was subjected to severe harassment and death threats
No.14349
>>14343>Now if you take shoujo from the 70sI've watched reruns a very long time ago on TV and can't say I remember episodes besides maybe Heidi. However I remember Princess Sara pissed me off because everyone was either stupid or evil. Starting from the 80s I remember more series a lot better.
>The mangas you mentioned are popular specifically because they are the exception to the tropeI don't know, they were exceptions at the time maybe but to say they're exceptions right now is different. It seems like Hana to Yume series as a whole are the least stereotypical ones but more successful than average
and that's why we need complete Akatsuki no Yona and Angel Sanctuary anime adaptations please I'm begging.
>I also don't understand why BL needs to have multiple female characters if we just went over how the focus should be the BOYS LOVE, and if we want female characters we could simply, I don't know, switch genre????I swear to god this was only a discourse because of fandoms and fanfictions, not about original BL. Because I don't get it either. Most BL manga are very short with slow publications, and I don't know about manhwa but I doubt it's any better given how niche the genre is. If I read a BL manga with one new volume every year I don't give a fuck about irrelevant secondary characters regardless of gender. That's why I eventually dropped Honto Yajuu and the new characters were guys.
No.14350
>>14343Even if you say that bitchy female characters exist in shoujo, the specific trope of the villainess otome isekai character doesn't really exist. That is, a noble lady in vague European aesthetic fantasy kingdom who steals the heroine's man (I know that you get other fantasy settings occasionally). The closest I can think of is some Rose of Versailles villains but they don't have the stealing the LI trope. And this type of character is still not really present in otome games, most otome villains are male and may or may not have a route while the other women in the game will either be the standard best friend or in a supportive role, sometimes there are yuri or friendship routes. The only villainess coming to mind right now is the evil mother in Diabolik Lovers who doesn't fit the archetype.
No.14352
>>14350Yeah there are not many other villainess in otome aside from Angelique, but it makes kinda sense tbh, it's an interactive first person experience and most people don't like having rivals (which is why vns for men also never had a male rival competing for the girls ever)
I don't think it's isekai but period drama, like old shoujo and even bl used to have settings in victorian times.
Rose of Versailles is the just the most popular perio drama piece, and it has also multiple unreedamble villainesses.
No.14355
I wish casuals, including most western fujos, would at some point realize that anime don't equal battle shounen.
I am fucking tired that everytime I meet a woman who is into anime it turns out that her experience starts and ends with the big Weekly Jump series and everytime I am asked if I am into KnY/MHA/Nuruto/JJK and when I try to tell them in the most forced, friendly way this shit isn't for me they ask "why", as if the mere thought of being into anime but not WSJ was somehow a contradiction in itself. It's especially weird when they see my Transformers collection or my many sci-fi, horror and history manga and still ask the same question.
Bro, look at my shelves. You can literally see the names of the series I am into. It's right there. Why ask about series that are nowhere to be seen, that aren't even of the same genre and demography as the stuff I display here?
This shit is one of the main reasons for why I never even tried to find fujo friends IRL or visit anime events, it's just the same 5 series that they know and care about anyway, with the only exceptions being a handful of phone addicted webtoons readers and it makes me tired.
No.14356
>>14355r.i.p. Peter Cullen
I understand how you feel as battle shounen aren't the end all for me. I go to cons and end up with more pictures of people cosplaying genuinely obscure series moreso than yet another hashira or MHA kid.
No.14357
I saw someone venting about how fast fandoms move and I think this is why I haven't enjoyed being in fandom the last couple of years. Everything moves too fast, anything that isn't the flavor of the month guaranteed to get someone big hits on ao3 is a harder sell to get other people into, and when I do like a ship, I hate everything the fandom does because of how much fandom is about turning one half of the otp into "literally me". There's no way to have conversations and build characterization over time when everything is about fitting characters into whatever the popular memes and tropes are. With older fandoms sometimes it used to get better with different writers getting into it, but now if a fandom is settled into a set of fanon tropes that you hate within the first two months, it never gets better. Then your timeline becomes flooded with a new flavor of the month you don't care about.
No.14363
>>14357It makes no sense but for some reason westerners engage LESS with seasonal anime and cartoons than in the 00s, despite that it's easier to access than ever. Maybe it's a generational problem and zoomers are just stupid, I don't know.
Just yesterday and I saw someone explicitly being sad about the lack of mecha nowadays, claiming that the only mecha series that aired the last 10 years was GWitch. Like, what? I then mentioned a few, including Bravern because the user liked fujo art and they were baffled and never heard about any of these shows. Where the fuck do you even look? It makes me wonder whether phone addicts might not even be able to search anymore, sites like anilist and MAL even give you the option to click on genres and sort it chronologically. How hard is it to click a keyword?
It makes me wonder if tiktok and instagram have a fucked up algorithm. Because even IF I refused to look for things myself I just had to scroll through my twitter timeline and see tons of fanart of series or games that are made for me because it's liked by the artists that I follow and the artists I follow share the same preferences and fetishes as I, that's the good thing about algos.
Maybe they just click on anything they see. The phoneusers I know IRL just "like" EVERYTHING, which would of course explain why every possible useful rec gets drowned out by 5000 recs of vtubers and cringe meme and trend bullshit that is bigger than anime because they signal that they are interested in it.
No.14365
>>14363>It makes me wonder if tiktok and instagram have a fucked up algorithmI don't know about these ones, but google itself became dogshit not too long ago, and that doesn't help at all.
No.14366
>>14363As anime got more popular it got easier to access by people who don't particularly like anime and really dislike the concept of keeping up with weekly releases. Also old good new bad.
No.14369
>>14367These lazy bums made sure I will save money by not spending a cent on P4R.
No.14370
>>14367Welp no reason to revisit Inaba.
No.14371
>>14348Asuka vs Rei is a waifu war not a ship war, though there are Asushinfags they're a bit different from Asukafags who just self insert as Shinji while Shinrei shippers are so rare they're not even worth mentioning.
No.14372
>>14367It's almost like he doesn't get the fucking point of it only being Yosuke. The other malefags are delusional if they think there's a real chance compared to Yosuke.
No.14373
>>14369>>14370Women who do are cucks, sorry not sorry.
>>14372I like Adachi x Yu but I'd be fine with it only being Yosuke, Atlus has just made it clear time and time again that they don't want women to play persona so Yosuke also had zero chance kek.
No.14376
>>14375
Ryuji fucking sucks and Haru has no personality so that tracks.
No.14377
>>14373I'll never forgive them for what they did to Goro and still use his image in products to boost up their sales. To this day he has the highest character tax out of all those fuck ass characters. Haru and Ryuji remain the least popular kek
And I meant more game meta-wise that Yosuke has the most realistic chance of getting the feels and having his feelings reciprocated. Adachi, Kanji, and that degenerate Teddie don't really have anything that can bolster the argument in favor of them. Yosuke is the one male character that has that close bond with Yu. But whatever. Atlus can't stand seeing women spending money on husbandos and cute boy characters. It's why Shinji had to fucking go because no one is allowed to be better or hotter than (You)
No.14378
>>14367Persona is cuck franchise atp if you're a fujo
No.14380
>>14367BECAUSE THEY KEEP PUTTING IN BAIT, RETARD!
If they didn't constantly pull a carrot and stick act with female fans by having a female protagonist and constant fujobait then no one would care. Even as recent as P3R they've been pulling this shit by having Ryoji confess his feelings before metaphorically cockblocking the female player, if it was only bro characters like Ryuji and a bunch of waifus no one would give a fuck, it's the fact that they drive in loops that pisses women off so hard.
No.14381
>>14365Yeah but in the early 00s google wasn't what it became in the late 00s either. These people simply don't care or they are stupid. They could access MAL or whatever, even just the streaming services they use (normalfags always pay for everything so they have them).
>>14366>Also old good new bad.Yeah this is also something I hate. It's always shounenfags who bring that up. As if nothing was ever as gay as their crappy Naruto rivalry. I mean if they're over their anime phase fine. But then they should just leave.
No.14382
>>14380The braindead moids replies are making me want to kill
>Japan doesn't really care for itYes that's why Yu X Yosuke has been one of the fujo go tos for almost 20 years now.
No.14384
>>14367What a stupid argument. No you don't have to.
I generally don't like this mindset of games that you either have het only or every single character being bi or gay. If everyone is, it stops mattering. I am mainly into Adachi porn anyway and yet I wouldn't ask or ever expect them to add gay shit for Adachi. His storyline and obsessive enmity with MC is fine as it is. Just let me have one dude who get a romance route because he's gay to begin with because gayness is part of his personality. Maaaan.
I don't even understand why they're doing the remake to begin with since P4 already as Golden.
No.14385
>>14384 >I don't even understand why they're doing the remake to begin with since P4 already as GoldenCash grab
No.14386
>>14382>Japan doesn't really care for itThere are so many Japanese women to THIS DAY that produce YuYosuke material. Shuake could never fucking ever reach the breadth of YuYosuke content. Fucker has no idea what he's talking about. As far as I recall, women live in Japan, fucking retarded moid.
FC LET ME MOST MORE FREQUENTLY REEEE No.14387
>>14386>As far as I recall, women live in JapanJapan glazing scrotes unironically think that women in Japan exist purely to get fucked and have babies (even though the birth rate is low) because they exclusively stick to scrote twitter I wouldn't be surprised if they think yaoi is an evil westoid feminist thing.
Persona is a franchise that has a pretty even male female ratio fanbase wise so the "ONLY GUYS ACTUALLY PLAY THE GAME" retort is also retarded (in fact there's more BL than guy oriented doujins for it)
No.14388
>>14382I genuinely hate this compulsive Japan patriotism that men pull whenever something is in danger of providing fuel for fujos.
Yes, Japan DOES care. There are like a million fanarts for this ship and millions more for ships this retard and his kind have never even heard of. Just because he isn't following any Japanese artists unless they're vtuber moe addicts because he's afraid of turning gay doesn't mean that it doesn't exist outside of his small bubble.
All pairings related to anime and Japanese games are actually way, waaay more popular in Japan than the west which shouldn't come off as surprising. Also I hate how dudebros keep using Japan as excuse and seeing it as this pure heaven for conservative shitters. The very REASON for why I and many others gave up on western media in the early 00s and switched to anime was its progressiveness, the diversity, the gay shit, sympathetic antagonists, cool women and so on.
The very thing idiots like this guy blame western wokes and "DEI" for when it happens in anime now.
No.14389
>>14387>I wouldn't be surprised if they think yaoi is an evil westoid feminist thing. They do. Discussing any sort of cartoon, comic or western game with a gay character or gay pandering is pure horror these days because people like that guy are convinced that it's all forced in through some big woke conspiracy and that everybody who liked it was a brainwashed tranny who selfinserts.
They literally cannot or don't want to understand that women, especially heterosexual women (aka the "normal ones", to use his own terms) might actually want fanservice with men in their media. Because to them everything is gender rivalry. Women getting anything means that feminism is destroying civilization again. Women are just there to be fucked, media should be made for retards like him only.
No.14390
>>14387Persona has always had its large share of female fans. Back in the P1 era, the protagonist and Nanjo were the biggest pairing sluts. You can still find evidence of the old doujins out there. Women fucking loved P1 and P2 having TatsuJun and Katsuya being a gap moe cutie made even more come into the franchise. This idea that women randomly started coming in around the P4-P5 era is erroneous and they were always there. Hell, the artist for the first Persona manga was literally a woman (and the only good one for that matter). I hate this revisionist bullshit moid spew about Persona.
No.14392
>>14387>>14389Whenever I see freeze peach weeb scrotes anywhere these days, they are all mentally stuck in 2016, still hallucinating Anita Sarkeesian coming into their homes to take their vidya away. Insane that you can say something as basic and factually correct as "women have always been a large audience of otaku works and appealing to them is only beneficial" and these absolute cavemen will swarm you to cry about muh evil feminazis CASTRATING hetero male sexuality!1!!
No.14393
>>14391Not any of the anons but I think a lot of people's anger stems from the fact that there was a cut Yosuke option initially. Since they're intent on doing these remakes, it'd be something to have that included. And personally the reasoning Wada gave is retarded, I get it's a PR response but going muh we have to add everyone else then when no one asked for that is just ragebait.
No.14394
>>14391There's a difference between something like Bakudeku where only literal retards would think that it would have a snowballs chance in hell and there wasn't much there to begin with and a franchise like Persona where they've had canon gay ships in the past, female protagonist in the past and still bait female fans while never truly giving them what they want and it's unfair to compare the two and then act like we're being unreasonable for being pissed off that Atlus continues to bait their female fans and they continue to be cucks.
>when there's plenty of other much more popular franchises and games that don't have 'canon homos' nor even remotely an implication yet nobody complainsNobody gives a fuck if a franchise for moids like Blue archive or Senran Kagura has fujobait or not since they made it clear from the get go that it's exclusively for men, it'd be like a moid getting mad that DMMD doesn't have waifus. The difference is that Persona loves to bait fujoshis and yumejoshis and then turn around and shit on our heads like a pigeon.
>>14393Also this. The fact that they had it in game to the point where there's recorded voice lines is proof that it would have been piss easy for them to add in, they just purposefully chose not to because they hate their female fanbase but want them to continue to be good cucks and buy merch.
No.14395
>>14393Yeah when I heard they were doing a P4 remake my first thought was "maybe they'll readd that gay shit with Yosuke". Since they aren't there really is no point in buying the remake if you've played the original or Golden (just like P3R!). Looking forward to some fresh fanfic though.
No.14396
>>14390I would even say that the very type of game is more appealing to women. I only know one guy who is chill enough to have fun with such games. Everybody else avoids it because games where you're not constantly running and shooting are boring.
Slow-paced games with dialogue heavy stories are always more popular among women, at least in the west. In Japan it's most likely indeed 50:50.
>>14392These types of guys are always afraid which is where this rivalry against women comes from. I never understood why. My self-esteem is non-existent and even I never cared about rivalry shit or care who else is enjoying the shit I like and why.
No.14397
>>14391I don't think you understand how Yosuke was literally going to be a romance option. The texts and voices exist in both Japanese and English. This is why there was a lot of speculation and hopes for that in the remake from many people, not just fujos. No one here honestly expects Adachi or another male character to be a serious contender, only the truly cognitively declined, braindead twitter types ever had such expectations.
And for the record, I never personally cared about FeMC or ever rallied behind her.
No.14399
>>14394>where they've had canon gay ships in the pastTatsuJun is not canon and was made deliberate bait. Even Kaneko, who everyone held as the supposed sole supporter of it vs the evil het Tadashi, posted on twitter that Tatsuya doesn't see Jun that way. Jun may be a faggot, but that doesn't make the ship canon. Tatsuya is still very much explicitly shipped with Maya and the game is centered around that.
>female protagonist in the pastThis is not relevant for a fujoshi
>Nobody gives a fuck if a franchise for moids like Blue archive or Senran Kagura has fujobait or not since they made it clear from the get go that it's exclusively for menThese are not the examples I was thinking of. Something like Narumitsu has been baited to hell and back forever, but it's not canon. Edgeworth has had girlfriends and is obviously meant to be shipped with women, but that has not stopped anyone from shipping him with anyone.
Something like even Komahina was never made canon, despite Komaeda being kind of a faggot, but again Kodaka is the master of baiting fujos while never truly giving a yes/no answer which is what is working for him for Hundred Line too.
That's not even mentioning other more "moid friendly" games like DMC where Dante/Vergil will NEVER be canon, but we all simply assume that it is.
So how come that for when it comes to any other vidya franchises overall that are popular with fujos, nobody cares that much but if Persona doesn't do canon homos it's a huge big deal?
And mind you, this is regarding canonicity of pairings / ships only. Not whether female fans are being pandered to or not. Bait still exists as it's always existed.
No.14403
>>14399>but if you want BL romance, go read a BLVNI already do, I'm not even much of a persona fan, it just pisses me off how misogynistic Atlus is towards it's female fanbase.
No.14405
>>14399>This is not relevant for a fujoshiSeveral times I mentioned that Atlus is shitty to all it's female fans, not just fujoshi.
>Something like even Komahina was never made canon, despite Komaeda being kind of a faggot, but again Kodaka is the master of baiting fujos while never truly giving a yes/no answer which is what is working for him for Hundred Line too.You're never gonna get a gay rape CG complete with bare ass in a persona game though.
>Edgeworth has had girlfriends and is obviously meant to be shipped with womenI've only played the first game thus far so I can't speak on that one kek, no idea what type of woman he'd be shipped with though. With that being said I'm pretty inclined to believe that you're just here to antagonize fujoshis and aren't genuinely interested in fujo culture.
>Not whether female fans are being pandered to or notYumes have a bit more pandering, but it's only just starting to have an uptick in fujoshi games as of like, last year and even then it's never stuff on the budget of LADS (which looks ugly to be fair)
>>14400>>14403Wrong reply gomen.
No.14407
>>14399Funny you mention Kaneko because in older interviews it was the opposite said. Unfortunately you can't really rely on the words of an old Japanese boomer, especially when it was rumored he left Atlus due to bad blood. You can call it cope on my behalf all you want, but there was a reason why people clung onto Kaneko vs Tadashi prior to the recent tweet.
>Tatsuya is still very much explicitly shipped with Maya That "Please take me with you!" scene was so out of character for Maya to say in EP. I don't consider that trash as canon because Maya isn't that pathetic.
No.14408
>>14399>Edgeworth has had girlfriends and is obviously meant to be shipped with women, but that has not stopped anyone from shipping him with anyone.Kumiko Suekani (the artist for the AA series) is literally a gigantic open fujo who practically wrote Edgeworth's and Phoenix's relationship for Shu Takumi and nobody can fucking convince me that they weren't meant to be gay
No.14409
>>14405>With that being said I'm pretty inclined to believe that you're just here to antagonize fujoshis and aren't genuinely interested in fujo culture. Bitch I've been posting here since the site was spawned off a /trash/ thread of all things which was already a spin off from /fujojo/. You can disagree with me all you want but saying I'm somehow a fake fujo just for presenting the argument of how normal people see these types of media (without fujo glasses) is dumb. It sounds more to me that you want to keep having your argument about Atlus being misogynistic specifically while ignoring the real point at hand (which is why does it matter that a ship has to be canon when it concerns Atlus, but not every other vidya related ship)
None of these games are directed at women specifically. They are just your run of the mill JRPGs that anybody can play. I never thought in the first place Yosuke romance was ever gonna be added in, but it's not the end of the world if it gets fully confirmed that it won't be.
No.14411
>>14410Kek I was going to say, it's Phoenix that's had a gf (well. I guess technically two), Edgeworth is considered attractive and well-beloved but he never reciprocates that interest.
No.14412
>>14409Congratulations, you're a pick me for anti fujos who post about how every character fujos like is actually straight and how they're stupid for shipping them then.
>I never thought in the first place Yosuke romance was ever gonna be added inSame, because Atlus is misogynistic as fuck. I just could not believe how retarded their fake reasoning was when they could have just said the actual reason of "NO HOMO NO HOMO WE DON'T WANT TO UPSET THE SCROTINOS"
No.14413
>>14410I just realized I confused myself for a moment and I meant to say Phoenix, lmao. Not Edgeworth, he's a gigafaggot but I was subliminally thinking about him when thinking about Phoenix. Oops. fucking god damn it I hate this 5 minute post timer when the site has actual proper activity aaaaa
>>14412Why would I be a pick me for anti fujos on this thread specifically, on this site, for an argument regarding ship canonicity? Now you're being malicious and obtuse on purpose when I literally never said that. That the intention for a character is that they're meant to be shipped with women (like it also happens to Persona protagonists, by the way) doesn't change the fact that they can still be shipped. How in the fuck is that anti fujo?
No.14414
>>14413*can still be shipped with men.
You still keep ignoring the main argument by the way, by constantly harping on misogyny and moids which means you don't have any genuine arguments and just want to seethe in bad faith.
If you want to do that, go do that but it won't change the fact that the very obvious was gonna happen.
No.14418
>>14417Man, this shit is just pissing me off, fauxjos and fake weebs that need to be held down and forced to eat in order to accept that things in bl are there already.
>gay guy weebHa
No.14419
>>14409Literally how do you argue that Atlus isn't misogynistic when they're purposefully avoiding accommodating very basic female interests while allowing you to date your female teacher who dresses up in degrading fetish wear and gives you backrubs for a power-up?
>>14412I swear fujos from 4chan need to get rid of those pickme brainworms stat. Slave mentality.
No.14421
>>14417>gay guy weebSo it's a fakeboi, and also a fakejoshi since I can think of several BL media that's "fucked up" like Madoka.
No.14422
>>14419I don't like maid Kawakami either (and I think she would've been fine without that entirely) but unfortunately, Hashino was/is some haggard faggot that really liked fanservice like that and to emphasize 'moe' women so it appeals to the male otaku fantasies which is also part of Atlus's demographic. But saying that the Yosuke romance is "accommodating very basic female interests" is a bit much, you'd have to completely rewrite the character so then the gay romance gets added in (because it was scrapped nearly 20 years ago). I don't disagree Atlus is misogynistic for a lot of different things, but the Yosuke romance not being done isn't a sign of misogyny, it's just laziness and excuses because they can't alienate the straight male fanbase. It is what it is which sucks but you get used to it with Atlus at this point.
No.14424
>>14417>>14421Literally the same mindset as
>>14355 mentioned. You'd think it wouldn't be hard to look a little bit deeper and find BL games. Also I actually used to like Madoka but I'm starting to get annoyed at how it's the yuri fandom poster child as if they haven't watched any other anime. It really is their entry level WSJ slop at this point.
No.14425
>>14424Madoka isn't even unique in 2deep4u gays, it's just reheated Kawoshin which is just also Ryo/Akira again.
No.14426
>>14423I said it's annoying that their fear of pissing off a bunch of fat otaku is greater than their desire to attract new game buyers by simply adding an already finished scene.
It's not just about ATLUS, it's a general issue. This is why gay shit is so much more rare than yuri. Because gay haters are louder and more militant than any other type of audience, so you can have lebians everywhere because said group faps to women touching tits but gayness can at best only be alluded to and if there are too many suspicions about two characters actually being gay there is a chance that the creators themselves will step in to confirm that there is no gay at all and that fujos are disgusting.
Not saying that gay doesn't existed at all. There are always some very, very rare counter examples. But the het:lesbian:gay ratio is crazy.
No.14427
>>14424I have never played a BLVN but I have read easily hundreds of BL manga, manhwa, and read CN novels. Maybe it's just me, but after my WSJ phase back in the mid 2000s, I began to naturally just gravitate to the BL genre and search far for more content. I never really got into general anime or manga since then and all my backlogs are just BLs I haven't gotten to because of other interests. It pains me to see women really wanting this stuff but not bothering to search beyond the shonen shit or "context" crap people can't seem to get enough of. I like context sure, however, I'm not a glutton for pain and I like to see a pay off.
Perhaps this is why I have never understood the fujos who refuse to engage with or claim to be bored of the actual BL media and stories and opt in for the "context" stuff from 3DPD shows or moid anime.
No.14428
>>14426We really need to start pooling our skills and resources as fujos to create our own stuff. I'm sick to death of corpos.
>>14427i don't feel bad for them anymore. it's the age of high speed internet with unprecedented access to so much BL content the whiners have no excuse. they deserve to live the rest of their lives with nothing but crumbs if they can't do a simple google search for BL recommendations.
No.14429
>>14427>"context" stuff from 3DPD shows or moid anime.Gets your imagination going and leads to creative activities like writing/drawing/creating fan theories and character analysis.
I like CN novels because they can have decent plot/characters and even sustain a fandom for a long time but find Bl manga lacking.
No.14430
>>14417What the fuck is this person even talking about? They watched four animes on Netflix and based their entire opinion around that? Tourists are so bold saying this shit with their chest.
>>14425Probably an unpopular opinion but MadoHomu is a shit ship with no chemistry and has literally nothing but Homura's whiny codependency to it while Madoka just coasts showing barely any interest. Even Kyoko and Saya had way more meat to their ship but they're not le kawaii aesthetic pink angel and le dark goffik devil ship so nobody gives a shit about them.
No.14431
>>14428It's just so baffling for me because I was on the early internet and I still managed to scrounge up BL series and read them voraciously - quality not withstanding. I've seen what BL used to be and how it evolved into the amazing, varied genre that it is today. This is how I can tell people are lying through their teeth when they cry how BL always mistreats female characters or that it's all rape and yaoi hands. I was there when that shit was written, fucking witch.
Anyway the point is, if I was able to find this stuff in early 2000s when the internet was massively disorganized and closed behind a lot of catty gatekeeping assholes on LJ, then the people of today have ZERO excuse.
No.14432
>>14429I get the appeal. I still like and engage with context, but to completely dislike the actual BL and be a snob about because you are "above" it is ridiculous, and the ones crying about lack of canonicity are a bunch of masochistic fools. And I do think that regular BL has the ability to have creative ideas and theories, etc. A lot of newer BLs have focus on plot and not just two guys fucking. It's a bonus, but you can't help but to speculate what the hell is happening in the story and how it will end for the two men.
>Bl manga lackingHonestly, I get that too. I see a lot of people tout JP BL manga as the gold standard when it has been falling behind a lot. It can feel samey in terms of plot and lack of real story, and the authors take a million years to update. I think a reason why mafia/crime BL manga are interesting is because there's action and consequence as opposed to the hot oyaji boss taking it up the ass from his normiefag younger subordinate.
Yes throw tomatoes at me, but I see manhwa as changing the mold in BL storytelling in terms of making plot. I'm not talking about the tired rapist top endlessly sexually assaulting the uwu loser bottom, but actual story. Same with the Chinese.
No.14433
>>14430>Probably an unpopular opinion but MadoHomu is a shit ship with no chemistry and has literally nothing but Homura's whiny codependency to it while Madoka just coasts showing barely any interest. Honestly yeah I agree. I think the appeal of it is supposedly Homura's eternal 'pining' for her to the point she's willing to destroy the world for it but Madoka herself has no personality or doesn't do anything to even really reciprocate. I dislike ships like this even for BL where it's one character having all the obsession, and the object of their obsession isn't even that interesting to begin with.
No.14434
>>14433There's something beautiful about such obsessive love even if it's not reciprocated.
I like that trope but can see why some people might not be into it.
No.14437
tbh I was never once fan of an actual BL manga made and I dislike them for the exact same reasons as het romance and yuri manga. I simply consider romances boring as hell when the story itself centers on it or includes all the annoying talk about insecurity and feelings. Plus, the short run time of BL manga doesn't help making me care about the characters. And Korean series are unreadable thanks to the shitty phone format (and I don't like the generic designs and settings either).
One of the issues besides the romance itself is that the moment a character is written to be attractive they have a high chance of being bland. And if they write a BL (or het harem or whatever) they have one MC and a small cast of LIs or even just one, so they settle for characters that attract the mass, meaning you will almost never get anything unconventional. I might as well watch 3DPD (I won't).
In the end it's always non-BL series that provide the designs, characters and dynamics that I am into. Non-BL doesn't even mean it's not gay. It's just that they aren't part of the actual BL genre even if they have a gay character or fujo pandering or even sexual content.
But this is why it annoys me that gay stuff is mostly confined to BL whereas het will always be part of fiction no matter what genre and message it has.
>>14434Same I like it too. It's also nice because it makes the love component obvious. I don't need canon mutual gayness to ship, but I am also not a fan of ships whose only fuel are a generic rivalry or two dudes being nice to each other.
Plus, obsessive characters are almost menhera, usually yanhomos and that's hot af.
No.14438
>>14429>they can have decent plot/characters and even sustain a fandom for a long time but find Bl manga lacking.Same. To me BL manga is a protein bar. The protein is good but I don't think about it after it's gone. By my personal metric* the only explicitly labeled BL manga I can think of that ticks the "sustain a fandom" box is Viewfinder.
*"what's Ao3 lookin' like"
No.14440
>>14438I think part of that is because, when the couple gets together, they lose a lot of interest for most people. I mean, the vast majority of all fic is about the couple getting together. If they're together in canon, what's there to write about?
No.14442
>>14438Idc what the author says StM & HtK are both BL mangas and they have pretty decent activity.
No.14446
>>14432your manhwa opinion is kinda bizarre to me. like sure manhwa typically have more chapters but in terms of actual well written plot it’s pretty boring. I think the appeal of it for most is the more frequent updates (same reason people like twitter manga) but beyond that there’s still a lot of growth to be done in the writing department itself. everyone wishes that their fav series will go on forever but longer doesn’t necessarily equal better. a lot of series would actually greatly benefit from not being dragged out too long. this includes manga too, but manhwa suffers from this more.
No.14448
>>14446Perhaps my opinion is the way it is because I am choosy with my manhwa. It's a lot to wade through but the ones that I do like I feel are vastly different than the pseudo-bara rapefests people tend to associate the average manhwa with.
>everyone wishes that their fav series will go on forever but longer doesn’t necessarily equal better.I completely agree. Sometimes the story should have ended chapters or an entire season ago and it's continuing just because the demand. Reminds me how Supernatural ended poorly because it was meant to be a 5 season show, instead of the crap that it did.
Honestly JP, KR, CN have its ups and downs. KR in particular gets dragged in the mud a lot more than JP and CN by the average fujo. But this isn't to say there isn't a reason for it either. I wish KR authors and KR fans weren't so fucking crazy. I know CN yumes and fujos have their reputation, but the KR ones are a different level of entitled and hypocritical. At least I know the CN girlies hate everyone equally. You'll never see them ally themselves with KR or JP for a cause, but the KR will pretend war crimes never happened and act like besties to CN and JP just to chimp out at westies or whoever else is their weekly villain.
>>14447I feel like BL can achieve that, but I guess I'm too optimistic.
And nothing wrong with being a shippefag. Let those two boys kiss.
No.14449
>>14417It's Madoka every single time because Homumado and Satorika are the only actually interesting yuri ships kek.
No.14452
>>14448>I feel like BL can achieve that, but I guess I'm too optimisticWhile there was a ton of fic for the canon ships of MXTX novels, a big reason why they grew such a big fandom is because of the amount of non canon side ships, and most other danmei don't have the same secret sauce. So the only ways it seems like BL could get big fandoms would be
>Have a lot of shippable compelling side characters>Endgame couple is not obvious and there's many possible options, with a slow burn story>The BL is a surprise coming after a long buildup No.14455
>>14452basicallt, "will they won't they" is the engine of a thriving fandom regardless of whether there is canon BL at the end or not.
No.14456
>>14452>Have a lot of shippable compelling side charactersMaybe it's me, but I feel like this has become less common even among BL one-shot stories as of late, especially the continuation story of the secondary character getting with another person. (Almost always a better story too than the OG ship).
No.14457
>>14448I think being choosy will make any genre seem better tbh
>>14452>Endgame couple is not obviousrooting for the main couple is the appeal of BL and the romance genre itself in the first place though. Personally I think original BL does fine in terms of fans. People read and watch BL because they specifically want to see the main couple get together and then develop their relationship. even a lot of fanfic is just standard romance (average BL) with everything else in the background. I have a lot of canon and semi-canon ships so I never understood the whole “a ship being canon makes it boring” mentality. I like to explore the “what ifs” in my non-canon ships of course but canon stuff has its own appeal.
No.14462
>>14341Nona, this is your chance to make a really funny author's note that says your fic was delayed by court appearances or brain parasites or something.
No.14463
>>14417Thinking about this again and I'd argue Madohomu isn't even explicitly yuri. The final movie could change this, but up until this point it's all Homura obsessing over Madoka, like others have said. The only canon ship in PMMM is Hitomi and Kyosuke.
No.14464
>>1439yeah it makes me think about how western rpg gay option was a meme, I liked baldur gate but the gay options were meh.
I do understand because I liked Soriku and I remember all moments they kept throwing at soriku for years despite being a Disney franchise lol
The problem is it's hard to reconcile that our ships will most likely never be made canon in some media because they are gay, because when the players are males (which for persona and kh is the case) they would never be able to relate to a gay fag, which means it gets drafted for the sake of the players comfort.
Yuri on the other hand always had a better chance at being canon simply because guys like to see lesbians more.
No.14466
>>14449If I had the motivation for it I'd redraw that original shitpost image with Hikaru and Yoshiki on the left and some basic yuri schoolgirls on the right.
No.14467
>>14372>The other malefags are delusional if they think there's a real chance compared to Yosuke.Right, besides Yosuke I can mayyyybe see a romance with Teddie but more as a joke. And that's only because Teddie had a scene in Golden where he asks Yu to kiss him, the player can accept and Dojime cockblocks them in a comedic scene, not even a serious scene.
>Atlus has just made it clear time and time again that they don't want women to play personaNo, if anything they take their female fans for granted and expect them to buy all the games and merchs as usual. And that's why they don't see the point of adding anything for them, female fans will be here no matter what. Except me this time.
No.14468
>>14380Anything is possible with Atlus in theory, it doesn't matter if the target audience is Japanese teenage boys. The super heterosexual game for men Catherine had a gay option with a brand new character in Catherine Fullbody after all. And I haven't played SMT5V yet despite having played SMT5 vanilla, but I heard the MC/Aogami pairing may as well be canon since
Aogami is Susanoo and the MC is supposed to be a direct parallel with Kushinada who's HIS WIFE IN CANON. HIS WIFE. Jun from P2 is an obvious case of Atlus pandering to women and fujoshi in particular but that's a bit older.
No.14469
>>14399>TatsuJun is not canonNone of the pairings are canon from P2 to P5 because they're options. You have the option to date Jun and that's what everyone here is talking about with Yosuke in P4 and its remake. You can date Chie and Yukiko too in P4 but that doesn't make MC/Yukiko or MC/Chie canon either.
>This is not relevant for a fujoshiBelieve it or not, some women can be fujoshi and still want to play video games as a female character sometimes, especially in Persona's case where you can do NG+ runs ever since P3.
>Edgeworth has had girlfriends and is obviously meant to be shipped with womenDid you hallucinate when playing the games? It's Phoenix who had a plot relevant ex girlfriend. Edgeworth is basically a kissless virgin.
>>14408She even made a BL manga titled Retsujou a long time ago where not!Phoenix works in not!Edgeworth's company who's the CEO and his childhood friend who eventually moved somewhere and they fuck like once a chapter.
According to this manga, Edgeworth is the seme and Phoenix is the uke. And she also wrote Mia's character for Shu Takumi as well so instead of some random woman dying fast and becoming irrelevant she's one of the most important characters in the series and it kickstarts a whole arc with her clan.
No.14470
>>14469nta but I think she meant as playing persona 3 with the intent of dating the male characters, which is what playing as femc gives the possibility of, imagine if they put a femc in persona 4, you'd have a ship with the femc and yusuke become way more popular than the the version with the male mc.
No.14471
>>14468>The super heterosexual game for men Catherine had a gay option Traps are usually for heterosexual men/pedophiles in denial. They did not think of fujoshi when they made that character, they will always have their male main target audience in mind. Vincent is also much uglier than other Atlus protagonists. Ugly guy x trap unmistakeable from actual women is hardly a dynamic fujos like. They could have given us a cute androgynous boy but they didn't. The SMT5V pairing is just bait and nothing substantial that could offend men. It's been many years since I played P2 so feel free to correct me but iirc choosing Jun is only one dialogue option and doesn't change anything? While that's better than nothing P2 doesn't have dating sim mechanics like the newer titles so it's harder to compare it to what could have been a real BL romance route in P4
No.14472
>>14471I liked Vincent in particular. Maybe not really my thing but at least better than the Persona protags regarding the design, but yeah, I never ended up playing the game regardless because I don't give a shit about traps and I wish men weren't mostly pussies in denial and just admitted that they were bi or gay and learn to enjoy watching actual 2D men instead of girls with dicks.
It's cursed, because I don't like generic bishounen but you either get bishounen if it targets fujos or you get no fujo at all (save for very few exceptions).
I also wish there were more bisexual men like Noda who made series themselves that pander to gays and fujos. Or just guys like Araki who had fun drawing fashionable men with sexy poses. I mean I stick to the pairings and characters I am into so it's no problem only getting something new once every two years but it's still underpandering considering that everybody else seems to have a million ongoing series to fap to.
No.14473
>>14471>iirc choosing Jun is only one dialogue option and doesn't change anything?That's the exact same case with Lisa and Maya.
>Vincent is also much uglier than other Atlus protagonists.That's subjective. Some female Atlus fans like him.
>The SMT5V pairing is just bait and nothing substantialAs I said, I haven't played SMT5V yet but at least the original game's story and characters are also nothing substiantial. Yakumo and his Chinese demon girlfriend Nuwa are also nothing substancial yet everyone still acts like they're an old married coupled. I heard SMT5V's new route is a lot better and there are more dialogues in the entire game so correct me if I'm wrong.
No.14474
>>14469>Did you hallucinate when playing the games?I had a brainfart moment and realized I typed edgeworth not phoenix, didn't realize it until later
>>14470>you'd have a ship with the femc and yusuke become way more popular than the the version with the male mc.This is why I don't want female MCs in Atlus games quite frankly lmao
It's already bad enough dealing with people self-inserting through the MC, that if people are being given a choice from the beginning to either ship the het version of a ship or the fujo version, average atlus rabid yume masquerading as a fujo will 100% choose the femc version. I don't want to deal with a FByleth/MByleth situation where most of the ships were all FByleth either.
>>14471>The SMT5V pairing is just bait and nothing substantial that could offend menIt kind of is, kind of isn't. Like the other anon said, MC and Aogami get constantly mentioned to be soulmates and literally bound to each other. They're never going to kiss or say "I love you" to the other but they are quite literally soulbonded. That's pretty gay as fuck.
No.14475
>>14474>This is why I don't want female MCs in Atlus games quite frankly lmaoFemale MC x Ryoji is nowhere near popular as male MC x Ryoji though. And even if it was, it's not relevant to us fujos. I have no idea what you mean with 'atlus rabid yume masquerading as a fujo'. A yume isn't going to start making content for us because she doesn't have the option to self-insert. But let's say she would, then I wouldn't want any of her shipping content like art or fics anyway because fujo content from a fake fujo would be shit.
>It's already bad enough dealing with people self-inserting through the MCPersona 4 and 5 MCs are self-insert characters though. They have zero personality. You could put the protags of one game into the other and everything would stay the same. You pick all the choices. You raise the MC's attributes so you become the hottest/strongest/smartest guy and all the girls who never would have talked to you in high school fall in love with you. I'm only not mentioning Persona 3 because the movies actually gave him a real personality with actions you can't/won't do in game. I ship Adachi x Yuu but I have to admit the MC is basically an OC and that Dojima x Adachi or Shido x Akechi are 'better' ships. I'd rather see a male character blush and go on dates with a female self-insert and learn more about the character so I can ship him with someone else or imagine him in a mob rape situation than play as a male self-insert and have the same boring waifus fall in love with me ever again. I dropped P3R after they made Shinjiros last pseudo social link about Mitsuru, I won't play the P4G remake and I doubt I'll ever play any future Persona game because I'm tired of devs and writers feeding their female fans scraps fujo or not.
No.14477
>>14475I don't think you know what I meant by "self-inserting through the MC", I meant all of the tranny shit and gender garbage that the Persona fandom is obsessed with. I know that Persona MCs are self-inserts, but there is a difference between "he is fat and trans just like me" vs giving them a personality or using them as a vessel for shipping etc. For the record though, you're wrong that P4 MC is an OC or that he has no personality. He's the one MC that's the sole exception of having a genuine personality of his own that has been pseudo canonized by spin-offs and other media like the 2 anime. Even in regards to Yu/Adachi (which I also ship). It's exactly because he has a bit of a personality that the ship works so well, because it's Yu who keeps insisting wanting to be with Adachi, going even to the lengths to do things for him (accomplice end) which even Adachi can't believe it that he could go that far. Even if you as a player can just choose to ignore Adachi, most material (even the manga that predates golden release) still shows that Yu cares about him in his own right.
> I'd rather see a male character blush and go on dates with a female self-insertI just completely disagree sorry. It sounds to me that you're a hidden yume if you're willing to tolerate female self-insert. At least as a male MC I can ignore the girls and I'm not forced to romance them (p3r thankfully fixed this too), femc writing just twists the characters to inevitably like the femc in ways that are very ooc and if I wanted that I'd just play an otome game.
No.14480
>>14476I didn't think about this so far, but that character does indeed not just look like a female character but like an underaged girl. Which is probably half of the reason for why they like traps to begin with. I assume that the initial kick from fapping to little anime girls is wearing off at some point so they are attracted to the next taboo, especially if the design is exactly the same.
>>14477Fully agree. Yu has probably the strongest MC personality from that series. I ship Yu/Adachi and fucking love what Golden has given us. Which is the main reason for why I didn't need a remake, I doubt that they will add even more Adachi or Yu/Adachi content. The one we have is simply already perfect.
And I agree about the feMC. I played P3 with feMC first, and I disliked how otomelike it felt. Chose feMC because I hoped for more content for the guys but the one I got wasn't really to my liking. Recently replayed P3 (Reload) and liked the male characters better because there was no forced in soppiness.
No.14481
>>14477>I meant all of the tranny shit and gender garbage that the Persona fandom is obsessed withI still don't get it though, you said those people would choose the female MC if there was an option. Isn't that better? They can finally stop shitting up male x male tags then.
>you're wrong that P4 MC is an OC or that he has no personalityI understand your arguments, and his interactions with Adachi are why I ship them. But to me caring about Adachi isn't enough nor distinctive from the P3 or P5 protag.
>It sounds to me that you're a hidden yume if you're willing to tolerate female self-insertKekk sure. I don't self-insert but I don't feel threatend by female self-inserts either if it means I get to enjoy male characters more and female characters less. I also like shoujo (the genre BL originates from) with female protagonists because I like the male characters much better than in shounen. If that makes me a yume then so be it.
>At least as a male MC I can ignore the girls and I'm not forced to romance them You can't ignore them because you will miss out on rewards you get from levelling up their social link and some of them will confess to you before you turn them down.
>femc writing just twists the characters to inevitably like the femc in ways that are very ooc And that's not the case when it happens to a male MC?
No.14482
>>14480You should always play as the FEMC last in P3P. I loved playing as her but the story was written with the male MC in mind first and it shows in several parts of the story like Junpei comparing himself to the MC and getting jealous, or Ryoji having the same voice and face as the MC for plot related reasons.
No.14484
Western fan of story I like:
>You know someone has generally media literate(sic!) if their favorite character is either [lists four female characters, only one of them being part of the core cast]
Japanese fan I follow who reacts to this:
>It's not about literacy, but passion that makes you fall in love. I gladly take all the leftover [gay dude we like] for myself then.
>What otaku need isn't common sense, but enthusiasm and madness!
Bless her. Bless Japanese and Chinese fans, really. They save my soul from despair.
I am so fucking tired of this pathetic virtue signalling. The story is male centered, the MC is male, most of his friends and enemies are. One of the female character the first person listed literally has ZERO traits. That's not me exaggerating, she's literally just part of a group of four randos who ask for something. There you can see that posts like these are utter bullshit.
It's so pathetic. Fucking learn to have fun and post about the shit you like instead of using fandom spaces to LARP a feminist.
Meanwhile I will finish the next fanart of said guy and his mancrush. If they liked those female characters as much as they pretend to do they would make fanart too.
*edit for typos
No.14486
>>14417Their take is wrong but it's ine line with the current trends. Nothing but safe generic BL getting animated, while yuribait is easier to sell to men so it can appear in different genres like mecha and magical girl.
>>14422Not that nonna but I do think Atlus is misogynistic. They don't like their female fans at all. Not only with Yosuke but with how much they neglect Akechi, their other big fujo character who they milk for money but who they will never give closure to because the straight male playerbase hates him. They gave Adachi a lot more because Adachi was "literally me" for most of their moid fanbase.
>>14431Fandom has changed. We can talk about zoomers being too lazy to pirate or too lazy to get into older media, and while that's true, it's ignoring the broader context. People don't want to bother with getting into something with no fans, and fandom is much harder to build up due to everything about the internet now making it harder. Their mindset is a merely a symptom of industries pumping and dumping shows and enshittified social media making it harder to build fan communities unless it's for the most popular media.
>>14467Atlus is like your average gachaslop company except I think even some gachas do better with fujobait, not that it's saying much. Everyone hates us because we alienate incels, yurifags and yumes.
No.14489
>>14446>tfw your fav manhwa are novel adaptations and they always get abruptly fucking cancelled before they even get to the ship moments you wanted to seeThe majority of these novels do not get licensed and MTL being what it is sometimes the webtoon is the only way I can confirm a character's gender or who did what in a scene. I genuinely thought an author had made these twin side characters who fell asleep resting on the MC's chest a boy and a girl just to be even because it kept translating them as shes. Browsing fanart and find a drawing of male MC with two boys snuggled against him. The scene where they come back as adults and try cuddling him again got a whole lot more interesting all a sudden.
No.14491
>>14490Poly is such a fucking meme. Everyone IRL who dips in it are hideous and/or some flavor of "queer." The character has two hands so they can cradle their one and only's face!!!
No.14492
>>14490>>14491Personally, I don't lump poly with multi.
The he has two hands people are genuinely annoying because the entire character must change. Chances are, they've never actually had a poly relationship that works outside of a discord. I ship Megatron and Ratchet, the medic. If I ship him with anyone else at the same time, for a poly ship, it's a new character dynamic. I'd much prefer the other ships to be separate. Being lumped in as poly shippers when I just like options is very annoying
No.14493
>>14490>BUT X HAS TWO HANDSI've never seen these people actually write fics or draw poly art.
No.14494
>>14493It takes understanding of how to write three people in a sharing relationship to do so, which they do not, nor is there anything interesting for them to add. They do it because being presented as more gay/bi than everybody else is how you score online points. The points are invisible. And don't matter to anyone but them.
No.14495
>>14494I still don't understand how polyamory got lumped in with LGBTQIA++ idiocy. It's so weird having these people treat polyamory like it's some profound and inspiring and woke thing when I've never seen an instance of polyamory not crashing and burning spectacularly because it's not a healthy or stable form of partnership. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to force incest under the "queer" umbrella
No.14496
>>14490Is this the new het shipper cope. I've been seeing people recently get upset that when there's a childhood trio some people may only ship a duo and it's like idk especially if there's a girl in the mix not all three of those relationships are written equally. I don't even really ship SoRiku but people trying to push this there when Kairi is sidelined EVEN IN HER OWN GAME and her & Riku are basically in canon said to be more friends with Sora than each other (and even competing for his affections as of the first game) and SoRiku gets way more of a focus. It's a kind of way of guilting people into making more works for their ship but the truth is most het ship fans do not actually want to see the MC making out with his best friend in one panel and then his girl friend the other so it's a strategy that doesn't really work at the end since people are more likely to do SRK (occasionally) & SR solo stuff vs SK & SRK works.
No.14499
>>14496>new het shipper copeit is, especially the example you mentioned with soriku, Kairi is a famous character for yumes to project in because they husbando Sora so they hate Soriku with passion, but because it's so popular they always coped with guilty tripping soriku fans and saying "omg11 misogynist if you don't ship sokai or sorikai at least!".
I also remember fanarts on tumblr from a sorikai artist drawing Kairi as an obvious self insert, like having scars on her body, or instances where she went to highschool and was scolded by the teachers for wearing a too short skirt, it's hilarious now looking back at it how much self insertish fanart was going on in the kh fandom.
No.14500
>>14490Every single polyshipper I've ever seen has been some variety of "I actually ship only these two seriously but that third one can be there for flavoring because it makes me look better". It's hetshippers who ship their favourite girl with their husbando but keep either the lesbian ship or their husbando's designated gay partner around as a decoration and then cry about bisexual erasure if you point it out.
>>14496Exactly. Hetsloppers will literally repeatedly punch themselves in the face than just mind their own business and accept that the gay ship is more popular.
>>14499This also made it to my fandom recently and it's a crystal clear attempt to erase the lesbian and gay ships by forcibly heterofying them as a "polycule" and again if you complain they just try to wokescold you over it, either by calling you a misogynist, a biphobe or whatever other term their bingo cards have.
No.14501
>>14496>>14499>omg11 misogynist if you don't ship sokai or sorikai at least!Kairi is so bland. I would be more upset with the writing than shippers if I actually cared about Kairi.
>fujos are misogynist because they erase women!!!1!>uses the female character as a self-insert>focus is all on husbando or male in het ship No.14502
>>14501better yet care about other female characters, the obsession with kairi specifically stems from her love interest with Sora. Which is what all self insert is bothered with
No.14503
>>14492Same. TBH I never encounter polyshippers aka people that ship a character with multiple ones within the same timeframe, pic or fic. Multishippers yeah. I always have a OTP but sometimes it's interesting seeing a character being in a different role or part of a different dynamic as long as the canon has enough going for it.
Your Transformers pic is a good example because there is gayness between Megatron and Optimus, Megatron and Starscream and probably more in almost every single TF series. For the comics he was also very close and in sync with Ultra Magnus after turning from enemies, to forced coworkers that mock each other to the eventual close comrades at the end. Just as an example.
I have never seen the "two hands" meme so far tbh.
No.14504
>>14495My headcanon is that most of the misunderstandings and issues with this part of the fandoms stem from the fact that they conflate friendship with romance.
This why they're also purity fags and why there is a high chance that they'll call a ship problematic the second it's obvious non-platonic and sexual in canon. It also explains poly because to them poly is essentially just a fucking friends' group. Notice how most of them never draw or reblog actual porn or talk much about it.
It also explains the trans hype. They conflate male and female traits (99% of them are artificial and the product of conservative social roles) with trans. If a woman is pragmatic, cool, likes videogames and fights physically she must be trans because they interpret everything as sex/gender-related that is simply just personality.
This is also why they don't understand why fujos are drawing yaoi and not yuri. Because they cannot tell feminism apart from sexuality. Fujos draw for sexual reasons. The others like the female characters for representation or whatever and to them it's the same, so they are angry that fujos don't care or assume they're trans.
Notice how they mostly like men/yaoi but still draw every woman like a hentai bimbo because they cannot tell women/femininity apart from sex because media fried their brains.
No.14505
>>14502There's quite a few better het ships in KH than SoKai, the most boring option besides maybe Roxas and Xion. Repliku / Namine come to mind. Even Kairi and Lea are more interesting. Kairi is so bland that she's begging the narrative to care about her.
I would hate to self-insert into Kairi even if I was a Sora yume. Why would I want to be sidelined passively in the background instead of actually going on adventures? She sucks.
No.14506
>>144959 years and going strong in my own. It can work, it just literally takes honestly at all times and brain chemistry to work. I'm naturally distant and don't live with any one of them. How I like it.The couples you see failing on socials or in insular friend groups are trying to make something work that usually can't. Ours works because it was by accident
No.14507
>>14501>I would be more upset with the writing than shippersI'm sure they're upset at both. Tumblrinas were very disappointed in Kairi and Aqua after KH3 came out. Rightfully so, but it was nice to see the “yes slay queen Aqua” crowd finally hit a wall and shut up.
It still baffles me there are people who’ve spent hours playing as a character whose entire story arc consists of tagging along behind two boys because her master orders her to—and who chases after one of them in every sense of the word—and these fans told themselves that KH finally had a strong, independent woman. It’s hard to ignore how the rise of headcanons and self-insertion coincides with the decline in reading comprehension.
No.14510
>>14507>It’s hard to ignore how the rise of headcanons and self-insertion coincides with the decline in reading comprehension.It's especially bad with games and comics because many fans today don't consume the original directly, they form their opinions by reading wikias, watching let's plays or (even worse) youtube reviews and thinkpieces.
I already met fans who learned to hate the very thing they were fans of the moment they finally engaged directly with it because turns out, it had nothing in common with the distorted version in their head that was formed by secondary and tertiary sources.
No.14511
>>14510As somebody who doesn't enjoy specific genres but likes a good story, I kind of hate admitting I watched a game, generally with no commentary on but people that did play can be worse because they refuse to acknowledge simple themes over hype moments. Ask any NieR Automata player about 2B and 9S' relationship. There's a high chance they didn't care after Ending A and not once considered the characters' individuality. There's a higher chance they didn't play past ending A.
I would rather someone watch a game I like and internalize it vs someone playing it and missing everything. See Kingdom Hearts.
No.14512
>>14481This is a fujo board. No one cares if you like seeing "male characters blush for female characters", it's still not enjoying actual homo ships because they get taken over by yumes who want to focus on the girl being romanced. I don't want to read about that, so I want the male character blushing for another man. Whenever games have a femc option the fujo option is actually less popular, because yumes are actually more abundant, they're louder, and they don't bother male fans as much because they're still into hetero ships. "But male mcs can be OOC"- doesn't matter, it's still not yume, its yaoi. It's a fujo board, can we get one space that isn't caping for het?
No.14514
This thread has reminded me how two seme one uke used to be a classic set up, but so many times they'd make one of the seme an actually horrid person who never communicated just to establish why he was a rival and couldn't just get together with the uke normally. The worst is when the author realizes people liked the bad boy seme so they suddenly gotta 180 and make him soft and misunderstood.
No.14516
The yaoi making young women into FtMs debate is so annoying when nobody transitioned 15-20+ years ago, and there's not a FtM overabundance in other cultures. There's also clearly an element of self-insertion and imagining themselves as actual gay men.
No.14517
>>14509>Nobody has an obligation to like any character, especially poorly written female ones for the sake of a performance.I think it's bizarre that instead of being peeved at writers being utterly unable to introduce female characters with proper agency or an interesting personality these people will just yell at the fans for not posturing and forcing themselves to be a fan of said female character. They reason it with "well if it was an equally badly written male character you'd have a million fangirls rewriting them a personality" but this isn't the issue here. For a lot of people it's the general annoyance that instead of writers learning to treat female characters as people they're supposed to do the work for them. And yeah, for many women there is the excitement of exploring possibilities with a male character because they don't come with the same baggage as their experience as a woman does. For example, I absolutely hate rape being used as a plot point for a female character and it immediately makes me drop the series, but for a male character sexual assault isn't as, for the lack of a better word, triggering. Or when a female character is written to be beautiful, nurturing and loving, it annoys me because we never get morally gray female characters with cool designs and instead they're always supposed to be the supporting pillar, but for a male character it's subversive. The way we perceive media is always affected by our experiences as a woman and I'm really sick and tired of people pretending like our tastes should exist in a vacuum.
No.14519
>>14505because canon romance with Sora that's why.
There could be other 10 interesting female characters with personalities and it wouldn't matter because there is no sight of romance with them.
No.14521
i like watching this fe tuber because his streams are pretty funny and entertaining most of the time but god sometimes he whines like a fucking chud this time about ike x soren and how its 'disgusting' to taint their brotherly love or some shit blah blah muh sam x frodo which is stupid as fuck when in the same stream there are jokes about the lesbian turned straight 'fixing' her but thats ok i guess
why the fuck do some guys take fujos and yaoi so fucking personally???
No.14522
>>14516Anecdotally, they definitely did (in the US, at least), I'm older and knew many 20+ years ago, they were just quieter and assimilated better/didn't mention their gender/transition when getting involved in fandom spaces. I don't think it's as simple as "yaoi turns young women into trannies" but it might make the prospect more appealing. I think it's far more likely that there's an overlap between fandom/mental illness/online spaces in general where young women are exposed to this. It's impossible to escape.
No.14523
>>14521Who is this? I wanna avoid him
No.14525
>>14522>I'm older and knew many 20+ years ago, they were just quieter and assimilated better/didn't mention their genderSame. Pretty much every man that was on LJ was trans. Honestly gender never came up much in fandom, I just assumed everybody writing fic was a girl until informed otherwise.
>>14518I also feel this way about m!Corrin. He was novel to me. Customizing him to a grown ass adult acting like that was really funny.
No.14526
Hey nonnas, if you see R18 nsfw hetslop shits & it`s goddamn disrespectful to both male and female characters, the male-female being buddies and she's sassy who takes no shit from everyone, how would you deal with it?
Smh hetslop either make her from bitchy to obedient, not wonder hetfags are hated
No.14527
>>14525Yeah and they were way more enjoyable to interact with. I knew a guy for 5+ years and had no idea he was trans until he made a private LJ entry about a surgery and needing to take some time away, he just came across as a (rare, but still existent) gay man in fandom. Wasn't making cuntboy art or shoving his identity into everyone's face. I really miss what "old fandom" used to be like and the people in it, however they identified.
No.14528
>>14292I've seen fujos actually give a damn writing actual decent, well-written female characters than what fujohaters claimed. The guys get the hot gay tension anyway.
No.14529
>>14528It's never enough for them
because the female character isn't the focus and/or the romantic interest. No matter what fujos do to improve their reputation, it will NEVER be enough because the goalpost will always move no matter how far the writing or art goes. We need to learn to let all of those criticisms slide off our backs and continue writing/drawing two men fucking.
No.14530
>>14517>it's bizarre It’s mental gymnastics and a form of obsession. It’s easier and more gratifying to point the finger at others for *insert reason why you’re a better person/fan than them* than to admit that the work you’ve become emotionally invested in is mediocre, or that you’re worshiping your own image projected onto a character. It's all this bullshit boils down to.
No.14531
>>14270>This one is also annoying because I would rather that my fave female characters just not exist in fandom, rather than get mischaracterized as motherly-types or get drawn with tits bigger than their heads by pervy men.Uuugh I feel ya Nonna, every porn hetslops I seen mostly my favorite female characters reduced to self-insert chud's obedient dickriding bitches or if drawn by manhating femcel yuritards, they'd be used as tools to 'smash muh patriarchy!'.
Sucks how nowadays can't enjoy yaoi or independent female characters without being trophy girlfriends by incels/femcels.
No.14534
>>14529I'm in a fandom where people shoehorn the female character who's a friend of the two male characters being shipped and it's so performative it's pathetic. I rather they just not draw it at all because a good chunk of her fanart is just her attached at the hip to the guys. It makes me feel bad for genuine fans of her because she's trated as an accessory but in a "woke" way.
No.14535
>>14526I try & block and move on. I'm guilty of shipping some (objectively) hetslop ships but I can't stand the way both men & women hetshippers characterize them and unironically fujos, whether out of guilt or genuine interest, are better at avoiding the typical hetcoom "narrowing" of characters in a het ship even if they mischaracterize their yaoi ships (go figure, kek). I don't get why so many of them like off-the-rail characters, even insane yanderes but like to "tame" them when in a relationship, especially when two people are just friends hetshippers are allergic to keeping the same chemistry after they get in a relationship and make them shy around each other when before they took no shit. This is why Lovely Complex is a manga I like because they're just as stupid around each other after they get into a relationship and are genuinely friends and have common interests.
No.14558
>>14557tbf that's pretty true to life with gay men kek
No.14559
>>14558that's why I'm okay with yaoi being unrealistic
No.14577
FUARKING google and google accessories has been down since the wee hours of the fucking morning and I cannot access what I wrote so I can post god fucking dammit. I know I shouldn't be using docs, but it's hard to curb the habit. I found out about libre and downloaded it so the evil corpos can stop stealing shit but just get back online jfc.
No.14578
Everytime i see fujos being brought up on twitter its in negative light and calling them fetishizers so it's useless to identify as one now it's better to be a "shipper"
No.14580
>>14579>Boyfriends was proof of thatShe will never be a man. Boyfriends is the author's self-insertion wish fulfillment and gay men don't act like those fags in said title.
No.14581
>>14578that's exactly why i call myself a fujoshi. so everyone knows im a problemtic filthy fetishizer and fucks off.
No.14582
>>14579It's funny because Gaydens (and transbians) are the biggest gay fetishizers of them all but they get a free pass because they're "queer", what a joke
No.14583
>>14578I don't give a fuck if I fetishize gay men or not whatever that means. I do not consider gay men's opinions when I consume BL. Glad to call myself a fujoshi if it filters out annoying people.
No.14584
>>14579women can fetishize gay men and its still harmless, these people think it's "so" harmful because it makes them uncomfy, if any harm is done if anything it's to the women that get so much into it they troon out.
Imagine guilty tripping women's empathetic instincs into making them quitting shipping or media to think about the poor gay scrotes.
No.14590
>>14589Looks like this "ship week" is less "Let's appreciate the ship together" and more "Please make fanfic of the ship for me specifically the way I like it".
No.14592
>>14591ew, what the fuck? this is why I don't read fanfic, kek. the only written fujo content I enjoy is rp with fellow fujos or tradpub novels.
No.14593
>>14592this isn't common to see in fanfic though??
No.14594
>>14593maybe it's the fandoms I frequent but a lot of fic comes with added virtue signaling and authors navel gazing at their own greatness or wokeness. it's annoying. that and I'm a snob who can't stand it when someone characterizes my homobarbies in a way that doesn't fit my ideal version of them in my head. it's easier for me to just avoid fic altogether.
No.14595
>>14592Haven't done rp since I was like 11 lol, generally I don't care that much about the writing quality of a fic since I'm there for the scenario more than the writing (generally jp fics have the hottest scenarios which is why buying doujinshi is a good idea) but it's just such a shame that this fic started out with good writing and the second the sex scene (which is short anyway) hit it had a bunch of incredibly obnoxious notes in it.
No.14597
>>14596So why did they upload the beta reader's comments? Link the fic, nonna. Maybe they didn't realize they added the draft content.
No.14599
>>14591I genuinely want people who speak like this to be skinned alive. This weird pseudo intellectual babble that makes them go erm akshually i may be a fujo but i super totes hate sexualization of le gay men because i am such a lesbo and I need to sound smart with every sentence that I speak
No.14600
>>14591This reads like some silly crap an ex-friend of mine would say. Made me laugh.
No.14601
>>14598kek I like this author but I do wonder what compelled her to keep those notes there if it was intentional
No.14602
>>14591The writing in the author's note is so fucking pretentious and comes off as tryhard.
No.14603
>>14599Expecting realism of any form in yaoi is retarded, I don't sperg about female anatomy when I play galge.
>>14601Yeah her stuff is pretty good, I'm just gonna have to assume for whatever reason she left the beta reader's notes in and hopefully she'll take them out at some point? It seems it like it is her friend writing it in which case her friend seems pretty toxic kek.
No.14604
>>14603She's also aware of this site, funnily enough. Maybe she'll see anons complaints about it.
No.14605
>>14604>She's also aware of this site, funnily enough.You guys friends or something? Tell her I like her work if so.
No.14606
>>14596>>14591KEKKK this is like having an alien for a beta reader. I hope no writer takes her advice or that it’s actually just a joke
No.14607
>>14525>>14527Same. But this is because the central difference between web 1.0 and web 2.0+ is that back then the net was a place for escapism and hobbies to its core. Nobody talked about their real life self because not even they themselves cared. People joined a space for X to talk about X and nothing else. Maybe at best make some genre-related memes.
Nowadays the internet is just an extension of real life and every normalfag expects you to care about their RL identity and politics and shitty stars and all the other shit. I blame Fecesbook. It was the first big place to encourage the usage of real names and disclosure of private bullshit.
No.14608
Up to this day I still don't get what "proshipper DNI" means and I feel like people just use that term to demonize pairings they don't like. The problematic aspect doesn't matter.
Like I am a fan of a gay ship where one of the was a stalker of the other, he even broke into his apartment, most likely to watch him sleep at night and that's only one of the suspicious traits he has. Anyway, I am drawing them but there are a few other fans who also retweet my shit and imagine my surprise when I went to their profiles to see "proshipper DNI". Like- WHAT?
Don't misunderstand me. That whole problematic bullshit is stupid. But how does that even work? Like how are you okay with my ship but then claim to be anti-problematic lmao
No.14609
>>14608Problematic is when I'm personally offended over something.
Half joking there, but it seems to be the case most of the time. I've also encountered big antis that like "toxic yaoi" that includes dubcon / rape, abuse or stalkerisms but ofc as long as "it's not incest/pedo" they don't care. And honestly? I think quite frankly that's probably all they mean. Proshipper = likes incest/shota. I've seen less pushback these days towards toxic dynamics (at least in my fandoms) but the very moment a character is even a fraction slightly younger than another? or even simply just shorter? minor-coded? oh you're going to hell.
I guess what people mean by 'proship dni' is usually that if you happen to like a pairing they don't like (for the reasons such as incest/age gap/pedo) then 'don't interact' with them like follow them, talk to them, like their art, etc. But you can't control what people can or can't do. What if someone doesn't even have anything in their profile but still ship problematic ships? You can't do anything about that
No.14610
>>14596Ridiculous diary text walls aside, one of the most common reasons that make me drop a fic is too much name usage. X talks to Y, asks Y what he wants and Y says "X, I, Y, just wanted to tell you that I love you". X is surprised. X walks to X etc.
I am sorry for being a snob, but certain writing issues are just so bad they take me out instantly and make any sort of immersion impossible. A semi-decent can convey who is talking and acting by organic writing and describing of circumstances. You will always be forced to use names
sometimes but use them too often and you sound like a 11 year old (and so are the stupid descriptions that some people use in lieu of names like "the brown haired boy said").
Also not sure if it's me, but I feel like fic writing has gotten so much worse the last ~5 years or so. Like most recent shit I see is literally atrocious. Not unprofessional. I mean outright atrocious. I have seen fics that were literally just 10 sentence long summaries. 5+ years ago almost every I touched was at least okay. Many even good, some fantastic. Now most of them sound like a summary of tiktok posts.
No.14611
>>14609God that reminds me of an "anti-shipper" I knew who aged the younger characters of a pairing up so that the age difference would never exceed 1 year.
The funniest thing? We're talking about characters in their 40s. There was a ship with a 41yo and a 30s+ old dude and another with a 45yo dude and a character who was maybe in the early 30s and they aged both up to make it 41/40 and 45/44 because a fucking 45yo dude being into a 40yo guy would obviously be pedo or something. I am not even joking.
No.14613
>>14612I know it's a coincidence, but the diction, snark, and overall rambling reminds me of chick I know from a fandom. Very condescending, very jealous, and acts like she's the end all to writing. Wouldn't surprise me if it's her but a lot of awful people get into beta reading just to have an ego trip.
No.14614
>>14598>One further point. Since we are straying away from prose and talking about characterization, you could utilize Eito’s heightened sense of smell due to his disorder and describe the smell of Takumi’s asshole. Though pornographic writing generally avoids this because the phrase "faint odor of anus" has killed stronger erections than yours or mine, so feel free to discard this.>Curiously, I fit "cute ginger" rather well myself, if one is willing to accept the testimony of two former girlfriends and a drunken woman at a lesbian bar. I have seen more than one person remark that Takumi resembles a lesbian as well, and while I do not especially see myself in his face, l understand the comparison. There is this thin, worried, vaguely dykey quality to him. Please do not put this observation in the prose.>Pain and pleasure may coexist without becoming indistinguishable. I assume you must have had enough sex to know this, I certainly have.Masterclass, thanks.
No.14615
>>14598Are you sure this isn't some kind of shitpost/in-joke fic, beta comments included, or something?
It's probably due to being unfamiliar with the source material, but I don't see much to sing praise even if you remove the editor's notes. No.14616
>>14615Kel seriosuly. I was wondering why that anon was glazing that author so much. Methinks it could be a case of self-posting
No.14617
>>14616Considering that
>>14604 said the author is aware of this site, you might be onto something.
No.14618
>>14617Fic was written 2 days ago, 242 hits and 1 comment. Somehow according to this anon
>>14596, someone "else" took the time to separate the beta comments to compare.
Hmmmmmmm……
No.14619
Well now I wanna know who the beta reader is. No doubt her own ao3 or reddit account is full of similar drivel.
No.14622
>>14614>This is a good first draft so far. One final matter, unrelated to anal physiology. You have now sent me enough material that these comments are beginning to exceed the ordinary bounds of beta reader or editorial correspondence. I do not object. On the contrary, I have enjoyed the manuscript and, perhaps more than is useful professionally, enjoyed discussing it with you. If you want to talk more after the draft is finished, about this story or male homosexuality or simply your day, I would be amenable.I'm starting to think this is simply chatgpt with a very weird personality.
No.14623
>>14609>>14608This is also why I could never really hang out in generalised 'proship' spaces cause it's such a broad concept. I'm ok with shipping a teen elf boy with a grownass elf man but it grosses me out when people ship him with his twin sister. But if the twin sister was a twin brother I'd be having a great time.
No.14624
>>14610I like to think I'm good about this, but I want you to know I went through my current WIP and turned several instances of Name into he/his thanks to this post.