No.6984[Last 50 Posts]
Life's not fair, especially for fujoshi. Post your frustrations and things that are on your mind, no matter how harsh it sounds, about advantages everyone else has that fujoshi don't get.
Previous Thread
>>5288 No.6985
I feel so alienated from mainstream fandom. Maybe I should take a break…
No.6986
>>6984Why did you start with the shitty twitter lolicon uooh maymay
No.6988
>leave a quick pleasant throwaway comment on a work i found just ok
>Thank you so much anon, just for you I wrote another several chapters!
>leave an excited comment full of praise on an awesome fic I want more of, or wanting more from the author
>no updates or updates only months later
I know I'm a cunt but come on. Why is it never the people you REALLY want more from
No.6989
>>6986Oh, I didn't realize it was associated with lolicon. Sorry about that.
No.6990
>>6985I just gave up entirely and made my own webblog to talk about my fandom preferences. Its lonely but its freeing, and I dont have to worry about butting heads with other fans because our interpretations are different. Every public fandom I've involved myself in always devolve into a clique-like environment where you'll get called out or ridiculed for not conforming to the "popular accounts" headcanons or opinions.
No.6992
>>6989It's fine honest mistake maybe the an admin can fix it later.
>>6988Same, it's the worst when it's a 6 or 7 year old fic with like 20 comments of support and the artist just dropped it. I get moving on to the new fandom, but at the very least mark the work as complete and leave a note. This is why I personally refuse to post anything that isn't 100% finished since it's my biggest fanfic pet peeve.
No.6996
>>6987What exactly are you wanting to see more of? I'm curious cause nothing really comes to mind personally. The most problematic thing I can think of is Garlemald-related shipping but I do see the occasional Garlean character enjoyers who keep going even if the fandom calls them fascist.
No.6997
>>6995>I'm into buff and chubby guysGirl me too. And I love variety too. Some short guys, some with body hair, some rougher looking… I just can't take the standard recolored highschooler bishie twink cast of most manga/anime amymore
No.6998
>>6997>I just can't take the standard recolored highschooler bishie twink castThirding! I don't mind a single bishie in a series, it's when the entire cast looks same-y that I take issue. It's the reason most otome and reverse harems are trash. When a shonen sports series has more variety than your dating game you've messed up.
No.7000
>>6998Honestly, as someone who likes shows and games with Skittles-haired bishie casts, I also 100% agree. I'm not going to drop a series I like just because some characters aren't my type, I'd love more variety too. I also wonder why marketing teams for female-oriented works in Japan are blind to the fact that there's thousands of fujo (and yume) fans of the most unconventional looking male characters ready to spend money on merch.
Then again, I kind of get why they don't add more variety, in a sense. For example, there's a few characters in Hypnosis Mic that don't fit the typical bishie archetype and they consistently place in the lowest rankings in popularity polls both in Japan and overseas last time I checked.
No.7001
>>7000Would Rei be one of them? He's incredibly popular in all the EU HypMic groups I've chatted with, but they're always talking about how cheap it is to bulk buy his merch secondhand on Japan trips compared to Sasara or Dice. It's like total opposites.
No.7002
>>7000Quite frankly, experimenting is a financial risk no one wants to take.
To take a male gaze example, La Mariposa in DOA is the only woman who's ambiguously brown in the entire cast with noticeable curvature on her body. And she's dead last in every popularity poll. Big titty/loli teenage girls are what DOA coomers wanted, and so she as well as most of the insanely varied male cast got axed.
People are insanely shallow, more than you'd think, and worse still, greater than you'd ever hope. The designer
for mihoyo titles may actually want to make unorthodox men but will nonstop put out another waifu or Dan Heng clone. Or Blade clone if they're older. Every single time they experiment, the fans will riot so short hair with long hair in back, severe gaze, otter mode-twunk you get.
No.7003
>>6995I feel like this a general problem with modern fanbases. Everything seems so coomerish and superficial it's killing me.
I love big men as well like my favorite bodytype is huge muscles but a layer of fat (not like bara for gays, but a bit of fat to make them softer/sexier) but if I find women who are into anime that talk about them at all (rather rare, since most prefer twinks) it's just as coomerish and performative as the lusting over female characters.
Either that OR fans talking about "big buff dudes" and then you click it and it's some Genshin twink. Same experience with "old men yaoi". I click in the hopes of seeing some suave graying gentleman or a cool dude in his 40s and it's just guys in their 20s lmao
Agree that Iskandar is a million times better than Endeavor. I have a personal vendetta against big nose haters because a bunch of the IMO sexiest manga men have remarkable noses. But that aside, personality matters. The best design would be wasted on me if I didn't like the personality and role.
Also, this here so much
>>6998Variety and diversity (in the general sense) are very important for me and there is a high chance I won't pick a series up if I see 10 characters of the same age, body type etc. that you can only tell apart by the hair color and maybe shape of the eye.
No.7004
>>6995>I swear I get along better in anime girls with massive honkers threads, but you can't talk big boys with them.The most frustrating thing is finding friends through discord that I have perfect horny chemistry with but they only want to talk about girls.
No.7005
>>7000>For example, there's a few characters in Hypnosis Mic that don't fit the typical bishie archetype and they consistently place in the lowest rankings in popularity polls both in Japan and overseas last time I checked.I think this is about advertizing and the genre though. If you aren't into typical bishies you will most likely not pic up a series like this to begin with you miss them and the ones it openly panders to and tries to attract are the typical bishounen fans so it's natural that they don't like the odd ones.
Same issue with top tier male side characters being wasted on harem or yuri adjacent shows because their potential fanbase will most likely ignore the series.
No.7007
>>7002Gawd, the loli hype is one of the worst things that ever happened to anime. I liked anime women way more when 16 year olds looked and behaved more like 16 and adult women were a thing. Now the latter are gone unless it's another lolsorandumb MILF that looks like 15, lolis are everywhere and always the target of fanservice unless the mangaka is a woman and everybody between 14 and 20 looks like 12 or is part of the harem.
No.7008
>>7006tbh I never cared much if was called trans or not since the outcome is the same and I assume that both types of artists just dislike yaoi.
I would forgive them it was at least herm. But it's basically women or guys with chopped off dicks because these people can't stand having two dongs being near each other. I wish they would just latch onto Twilight or something.
No.7010
>>7001Rei and also Hitoya, yeah. They have dedicated fanbases, but they're much, much smaller compared to the other main characters.
>>7005That's a fair point, but I think lack of variety is worth discussing when it comes to female-oriented works and projects specifically. In my experience, older guy/buff guy/chubby guy characters are extremely rare in joseimuke, shojo and otome unless they're a secondary character or something. I'm guessing it's the female otaku version of male otaku that got used to the same 5 variations of neotenous anime girls in otaku-oriented works, so they only demand more of the same forever, ignoring anything that isn't schoolgirls with big tits or lolis. Like
>>7002 pointed out, it's probably because most people are shallow and can only think of certain genres as "character type I've seen a billion times before" dispensers. For fujo-pandering works I do wonder if this is in part caused by the "buff and chubby guys are something only gay men are into, women only like 20 year old ikemen" mentality.
No.7011
>>7010Thats too bad, never played this game but Rei looks like he'd be my favorite side character in seasonal anime.
>For fujo-pandering works I do wonder if this is in part caused by the "buff and chubby guys are something only gay men are into, women only like 20 year old ikemen" mentality.I hate this, I hate how a series like Negima can have 20 romantic options of varying archtypes and personalities but a female-oriented series are limited to three body-types and interchangeablepersonalities. I mentioned it before but the worst canned otome personality is one where the character is a shy nerd who's self-conscious about himself and the game insists he's ugly. The character in question though will look just as conventionally attractive and they'll just slap a pair of glasses on him.
While not my favorite Sk8 has taken on my gold standard in recent years for attemptingto cast a wide net. While it's allegedly a shonen it feels marketed to women and it has a beefy bara all the way down to a cute cat-themed child prodigy.
No.7012
>>7003>my favorite bodytype is huge muscles but a layer of fat (not like bara for gays, but a bit of fat to make them softer/sexier)Can you name some characters you like? I love this body type too and I always just considered it big or stocky but there's such a huge discrepancy in what people tag as what. The pure muscle guys are cute but too lean for me, need some fat on them bones too…
No.7016
I hate minors in fandom spaces, they costantly start shit and you feel kinda bad ripping on them cause they are 15 years old, but even then if your parents are so shit they barely teached you how to interact with others online then why should i care?
No.7019
>>7016>>7017Same here, I just do the only sane thing and ignore and block them. Trying to argue with literal children is a battle you should never pick because they will not understand your perspective due to their underdeveloped frontal lobe and lack of life experience in general, and they will not be able to comprehend your point for the reasons listed above. Adults treating children as equal conversationalists is the reason we ended up in a situation where kids feel empowered running around screaming at adults for drawing porn of their blorbos that they shouldn't be viewing to begin with.
No.7020
>>7016Block and ignore at all costs. All people in yaoi spaces should be assumed to be an adult. I also viewed yaoi well before I was 18, but there should at least be pressure to shut up and integrate to
avoid getting blocked as a child. Young children should not be online at all.
No.7021
>>7019>Trying to argue with literal children is a battle you should never pick because they will not understand your perspective due to their underdeveloped frontal lobe and lack of life experience in general, and they will not be able to comprehend your point for the reasons listed above.This is why certain parts of the proship community bother me. No, barbara, I don't think you're a badass for dunking on a 14-year-old on social media regardless of how annoying the kid is. It's not worth it.
No.7022
>>7021Yeah. The way people in that community get way too invested in arguing with literal children and treating them like they're the terrorist thought police when they're just being retarded kids bothers me a lot, like I wouldn't be assed to have a duke out with a teenager on social media over the morality of fictional porn. That brat shouldn't be viewing my porn anyway! I know it's fucked up, that's why it's only for adults who can differentiate between real life and fiction! Get out!
No.7023
Speaking of minors, I don't trust anyone who is an "adult" post 2019, worse if they're only 'just' 18-19 at 2022 either.
They're people raised through anti culture so I won't even bother.
I'd say even post 2016 "adults" I wouldn't trust either
No.7024
>>7023Do you meticulously check the age of every person you interact with? Just block and ignore if they're being obnoxious.
>>7022Yes exactly, I think it's a mark of immaturity on the adults part moreso than the annoying child. An adult shouldn't be interacting with a kid in the first place and should be responsible enough to block them if they discover they are interacting with their mature material. Part of this is honestly the fault of sites like Twitter allowing 18+ content but not making any effort to segregate or age restrict it.
No.7026
>>7016I hate them too. I am even in a technically 18+ discord and the others are fine but one person got in who is apparently 14 and while I don't care whether some 14yo looks at porn or not (I did it too) I am still annoyed by her dumb school kid problems and the fact she's a brainwashed tiktok addict who draws one half of the pairing the discord is about as cuntboy or woman non-stop and hates 2D men. What the fuck are you doing here then?
Go ship something yuri wtf. She doesn't even care about the other half of the ship but I can't do anything since she's an online friend of the admin and this is the only place to talk about this pairing.
I would have never had the guts to join adult spaces as kid out of respect, it's different from lurking.
She also makes me realise how brainfried this generation is thanks to tiktok. I never talked to zoomers before so I thought people were exaggerating when they said they're addicted to social media and online whoring. I basically ghost her in the discord but it still annoys me.
No.7027
>>7021Antis are so fucking annoying but it's better to just block and create rather than get into fights with 14yos.
I think it's weird and creepy to have all ages Discord servers where teenagers talk to adults in the first place. SFW but 18+ should be the default online.
No.7028
>>7017>>7020Yeah I discovered yaoi when I was in my teens too, but the expectation back then was integration. Not only by not plastering your age everywhere (something teens now love to do for some reason?) but also by understanding the kind of community you're actually walking into. I think the real issue isn't even necessarily age itself, it's the fact that people nowadays think they can intrude into any space and change it however they want, plenty of people in their 20s do that.
Speaking of people that shouldn't be in fandom spaces, I can't stand people who treat every minor "problematic" thing in fiction as a serious issue of massive proportions while simultaneosly not giving a fuck about things that are actually bad. I'm not one to believe there's never been any predatory behavior in fandom spaces ever that should be addressed (I've heard all sorts of stories from the Google+ days…), but the fact that someone can say "that person watches CP!!" and I can't even tell whether they mean the real thing or fucking yarichin bitch club is deeply worrying. These are people that make life easier for predators by focusing on the most retarded nothingburger shit and causing everyone to develop alarm fatigue, they cope by saying they can focus on multiple things at the same time but they never do. The McKayleighs of fandom will pat themselves on the back for harassing fujo artists into privating their accounts for the crime of shipping a 15 year old anime boy with an 18 year old anime boy while grooming rings on discord or roblox still operate unchecked. Sorry for sperging but the way antis have trained an entire generation of teens to abuse serious terminology until it loses all meaning genuinely pisses me off.
No.7033
>>7026>the fact she's a brainwashed tiktok addict who draws one half of the pairing the discord is about as cuntboy or woman non-stop and hates 2D men. What the fuck are you doing here then? I genuinely believe this has to be some kind of internalized homophobia. They need to hetero-fy all the ships to be able to enjoy them.
>I would have never had the guts to join adult spaces as kid out of respect, it's different from lurking. Yeah I used to lurk hardcore hentai communities when I was 14-15, I think everyone in my generation who was online in the 00's did it. Difference is that none of us outed our ages or even talked to anyone because we would rightfully be kicked out on the spot.
>>7028>I think the real issue isn't even necessarily age itself, it's the fact that people nowadays think they can intrude into any space and change it however they want, plenty of people in their 20s do that.Seriously. People enter the fandom for the most problematic kind of shit ever and start demanding everyone to pretend as if the source media doesn't have every ~triggering~ trope in the world. It's such a baffling phenomenon that has gotten more and more prevalent in the past years.
No.7034
>>7027It is never worth arguing with someone who hasn't even graduated high school.
14 year olds have too much credit given to them and somehow, people just forgot along the way how stupid kids are and take their "well worded" (and I use that generously) nonsense as some kind of intellectual take.
No.7035
>>7024>Do you meticulously check the age of every person you interact with?NTA, twitter's greatest desktop feature is being able to hover over names and seeing their entire bio.
It's not even a full second of waiting, I just see who followed me, and ignore them.
You make it sound like a chore when it's barely a blink in effort.
No.7037
>>7036Considering futa yuri has always been more popular than normal yuri among men, sadly it may be the unavoidable natural order that cuntboy is blowing up now. Add in the ever growing number of gendies who want to project, and it feels like it'll never go back to how it was. But I don't know, sometimes trends come and go, like how there used to be tons of songfic or my-fave-selfharms-just-like-me fic.
No.7046
>>7024>Do you meticulously check the age of every person you interact with?Most of the time without fail, every "adult" that is somehow an anti barely escaped adulthood, so I definitely avoid those too. Even those "on the fence" about problematic things because if you're truly an adult why would you give a fuck about who ships what at this point?
I've seen 30 year olds still do the whole "I'm a safe adult kids uwu you can send death treats to those nasty proshippers here with me uwu"
No.7047
>>7035Not everyone puts their age in their bio though. Some do add their birth date, sometimes it's incomplete but the most important part is the year. Personally if I have any doubt about someone's age because it's not stated anywhere but I see pronouns or mental illnesses listed instead I'll block people too. If I see a kid arguing stupid shit on twitter who states her age in one tweet in particular I'll report the account as well, it's for their own good, 14 years old kids shouldn't start arguing with grown women online and ask to be taken seriously, to then post "wow why are you beefing with a 14yo mlm minor?", like go do your homework instead or some shit.
No.7048
>>7036>general heterofying of yaoi pairings It's always been a thing and also why I've hated hetbending for years. The japanese fandom still very much does hetbending but the eng fandom wants to believe themselves 'better' than 'heterofying' ships to they make them 'queerer' by making them trans…..which is, in essence still heterofying with a different name.
Like all the t4t shit around, what difference does it make from trans woman X and trans man Y it's still hetero shit isn't it?
>>7037But at least most futa yuri people acknowledge it's entirely a sexual thing, they just want to see dick in vagina. Ironically, trannies are 50/50 split on futa because some hate dicks so much they want them gone forever and others are just AGP self-inserters proud of "their girlcock" so futa yuri is their beloved trans porn
No.7049
>>7047Most NSFW artists I follow, generally east-asian, will say NO AGE IN BIO = BLOCK specifically in English because they know antis are mostly children. If I've only had one tweet with 100+ likes and there's no way for me to check everyone. But majority of twit users don't get anywhere close to those numbers. JP users seem a lot more sensible in keeping their spaces finely curated and it's an example that seems to work. I like checking to see who likes my posts (the 1-2 like ones) because it means I can potentially meet a new friend or follow someone with similar taste.
I have no idea why this would be seen as a bad thing.
No.7050
>>7048I still see plenty of genuine hetbend on Ao3, especially in fandoms like Demon Slayer, so the crowd who only write transfic because they're scared of getting dogpiled for writing hetbend should just nut up and do what they want. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen anyone talk shit about hetbend these days. I think people might only get touchy if it was a canon gay pairing like Wangxian.
No.7051
>>7049I'm
>>7024 and it's not so much against the idea of confirming you are talking to an afult, which I think is good and responsible, but the fact thst the nonna I'm replying to is saying she won't interact with people under 29. I don't use twitter, but a lof of people online put 18+ and call it a day.
No.7057
>>7049I coped the Japanese fans for the same reason. 18+ in every bio of mine even if I am not even sure whether I will post or retweet nsfw. Then it's their fault because I cannot check like 700 people liking my fanart and I don't really care. If someone enjoys my stuff they will sooner or later see my bio and if they complain then it's their fault for ignoring my rule.
I do check some of the retweeters though for the same reason. Retweeting means they like the same shit. Usually it's only Asians liking and retweeting my art though, which is kind of telling IMO.
The trans artist in my fandom get less RTs and likes but 100% of the ones they get come from other westerners, never Asians and especially not Japanese. I think there is kind of a rift between the fandom cultures, because Japan loves on-model and canon relevant fanart or funny jokes, whereas the west wants self-representation.
No.7072
>>7071
I'm sorry if I sound like crazy, but I'm really really confused about your post in the fujo venting thread.
No.7082
It always pains me when an artist I adore changes their avatar to something unrelated to the fandom I followed them for.
I feel like a lot of people join fandoms, draw like five to ten bangers and already move on after that. Maybe it's because I don't relate. I draw for things I am obsessed with and I only get obsessed maybe once every three to five years so I stick to a fandom for at least the same amount of time.
No.7086
>>7082I like writing and personally I'm the exact opposite, while I might consume fanworks of a series for years I only write one story for a series, if any more arise it's a different pairing. It's awesome to see fan artists who draw art of a series for a decade or more, but personally I feel like there comes a point when you've exhausted all you can do with a pair or someone else does it better.
No.7093
My OTP of years was fucking desecrated by the shitty writers and now a lot of fanartists are moving on and deleting their accounts. I can't blame them but I feel upset and have been ignoring the latest chapters and pretending none of it happened. Why do I have to suffer this way? I'm scared for future stories
No.7104
>>7103Wait, what? I haven't been keeping up with recent enstars stories, though I heard they fucked up basic details of Shinobu's character in one of the recent cross scouts, but they also ruined Mayoi x Shinobu? How, if you don't mind me asking?
No.7105
>>7103What happened? I don't follow the series so no idea what they did. Did they make the ship non-canon?
Also I feel you. I am/was very invested in a ship that is the first one I genuinely loved enough to inspire me since 2018 but now they are officially separated forever and the mangaka kind of tried to make one of them act badly and all ooc. In the end I still like the individual characters enough to keep drawing and being invested, I even like the dude that NTR'ed one half of my ship so I basically like two different ships and three characters now but I am mad regardless. It's still fun but my happiness got tainted and the innocence of the characters is gone which was a big part of the appeal of the first ship.
Like with your fandom a bunch of super talented artists were sad and stopped drawing so that's another downside. I relate to everybody whose ship got fucked over in recent times.
No.7120
Just saw someone say they prefer ukes to have vaginas because it’s more plap plap plap. Wtf does that even mean except that you’re a fakeass fujo who can’t imagine anything outside of PIV
No.7127
>>7007This is why I can't get into yuri. It's all teenager girls in that moe loli art style. Older anime had teenage girls look more mature. For anime you can find content with adults, but for yuri everyone is stuck in high school.
No.7129
>>7127You should check out Sal Jiang's work. Maybe Korean or Chinese GL would be more up your alley too? They tend not to have moeblob art styles and have older casts. If you don't like webtoons/manhwa already then don't bother with their GL though because they have similar trashy plots.
No.7130
>>7120How are you plapping his ass if you're doing it in his front
No.7131
I haaaaate it when FGOfags constantly try to shit on hoyofags for their fujoships and call them "void and boring". As someone who has played BOTH FGO and Genshin/Star Rail for years I can tell you numbskulls right now that FGO fujoships are condensed copium that get even less crumbs than hoyoslop and the entire game is so hetcoded it feels almost offensive, your one-sided rivalry is retarded and you need to get over your false superiority complex. Also Karjuna is a vastly overhyped ship, sorry not sorry.
No.7132
>>7129Different anon but "trashy" is the perfect word to describe webtoon plots, I don't even like their BL for that reason. I tried reading some of the GL but it has the similar problem as all their other genres, just hollow characters with plastic surgery faces yelling at each other.
No.7136
>>7132it really bothers me that (bl)manhwa/webtoons got so popular in the last few years, they almost kinda overshadow bl manga
they always have a slimilar/boring plot and the artstyle is always so stiff and repetitive
im not even a person who needs a "good" story to enjoy a series, im actually a big fan of tropy bl stuff (gravitation, junjo romantica etc. ) but manwhas are always incredibly uninteresting to me
make yaoi great again
No.7143
I'm so fucking tired anons
>go check on niche fandom I'm in, I haven't checked it out in a few months
>it only has like 5 people and is from a non-english 60s property
>my favorite artist is now a he/they and only spams usa politishit, doesn't post art or hcs
>other artists left are all AU or OC shit and a unironic tradcath genderbender that argues with everyone because yaoi is a sin
She never posted anything personal or politics before anons, she even ignored drama before this, I'm so tired of politics and trannyshit infecting everything.
No.7144
>>7136nayrt but as someone who prefers manga to webtoons I don't understand why so many fujos latched onto kr webtoons. Maybe I'm just shallow but I can't even stand how the characters look in 99% of them, they all look like kpop idols and the semes are all extremely beefy for no reason. It feels like I'm looking at the worst offerings of 2000's BL manga but with (flat) coloring. It's also annoying cause most fujos I've met basically only talk about webtoons and a lot of them don't even read BL manga even though there's a lot of genuinely interesting stuff in the genre.
No.7145
>>7144I dislike webtoons for the same reason. I think the swap over mostly comes from the scrolling format since most people read on their phones now. It being colored is part of it too probably, manhwa series tend to go for longer compared to BL manga where a lot of them max out at 6-7 chapters. From the few that I've read the sex scenes are also a lot more explicit than JP stuff.
>only talk about webtoons and a lot of them don't even read BL mangaMy friends and I used to talk about BL all the time in high school and throughout the years I've watched them slowly move on from manga to bland webtoon uggos, saddest decline ever.
No.7148
>>7143This is sadly the typical endpoint fandoms eventually degenerate to after a long time without new canon input. The majority moves on and the few that stay have lost interest as well but refuse to leave so they pollute the bit that's left of the fandom with AU, OC or polit bullshit. It always depresses me.
If you create yourself I hope you will be able to keep doing so despite all of this. Remember that that there are always lurkers and people who watch or read the series/movie ages later but might become a fan of it regardless. They will be very happy finding good fanart or fics, it happened to me when I joined an already dead fandom some years ago.
No.7151
>>7144They're fully colored, the scrolling format works on phones and they often have graphic sex scenes. That's all it takes for popularity. I've tried reading multiple webtoons but they get so boring so fast, the plots are always paper thin, the characters have no charisma and only rarely is the art even past novice level because webtoon publishers scout inexperienced people to exploit with insane scheduling and demands. Also they're much more available than BL manga because Japanese publishers fucking suck about internalization and even more with digital formats, it still takes years to translate one goddamn manga oneshot and you can only get a physical copy that never gets rereleased.
No.7154
>>7136>>7144>>7145Same. The format alone is already pissing me off. With manga I have two pages neatly displayed on my monitor in fullview and I page through them like with a physical manga. Everything is shown. With webtoons I see half of a damn panel, half of my clicks are just about ADJUSTING that shit to make me see the whole panel.
Worse, the dynamic between panels is gone. Look up series like Witch Hat Atelier, Tezuka or Taniguchi stories or just every well-drawn seinen out there to see what manga are capable of. The sequential art of comics is what makes them special to begin with but it only works with connected panels. Webtoons are just mostly isolated, single panels in a sea of whiteness. It's shit. No webtoon will ever come close to a good comic or manga. They don't even have doublespreads or full landscape pages.
And those are just my problems with the awful layout. Not even starting about the horrible art and stories or the godawful flat coloring that 99% of them have or the CGI garbage many of them use.
No.7157
>>7136The way koreaboo shit is pushed in weeb spaces now is so off putting that I've been avoiding it based on that alone.
>>7154Funny. I've always hated reading manga digitally because of all the zooming and scrolling but that goes back to having a CRT desktop and a laptop. Maybe it's worth trying again.
>>7047I block for pronouns, mental illness/sexuality/race, etc labels and any kind of virtue signalling in bio regardless of age. I agree with
>>7023 's cutoff but even then, the chances someone will be normal are low. You just hope they will be because they're old enough to remember when fandom was still fun. That said, I'm vague about my own age and you'd have to infer it from me blabbering about the 2000s or something.
No.7159
>>7158what's the context for the pic nonna, haha?
No.7160
>>7148You're right anon, I should go continue my fics, and sometimes there's waves of fans that come and go, even if takes a decade and they're few I should be hopeful for them and not despair at the current ones on the fandom.
No.7161
>>7159it's a birthday nonnie! but that's all i know about it lol
No.7162
>>7158Jesus Christ I never experienced this. Even the Japanese fans of my current fandom are chill with this. I never saw serious debates about this in a western fandom, it's strange how this seems to be a trend.
>cute new official art drops and instead of rejoicing about cute gays and their love, it's instantly used as an excuse to argue and push a particular agendaIt sounds like gender politics so it's probably that, as you said. If you are obsessed with gender the shipping order is very important since it determines who the "woman" or tranny is.
>how's the situation in your fandom nonas?Sadly a small active fandom, but the upside is that the majority of fans are Japanese and a few other Asians who enjoy the canon and are creative with it. The guys we like have a bunch of gay scenes together and there are no female characters around they have their designated male partner (one seems to have two love interests lol) and there is no infighting.
I partly lost interest in my main fandom (for now) because every western fan there is a lesbian now or pretends to be and despite still claiming to be fan of the series nobody is drawing the characters as men anymore. It's either genderbending or transwashing of at least one (often both) halves of the pairing. It frustrates me.
I recently opened the discord again to post a new fanart of mine. And instead of getting some talk about the characters or at a comment for the artwork a fan pointed out that the colors I used were the lesbian flag (I didn't intend to do so and after she showed me the flag I can say for sure it doesn't even look like it). So they started to discuss that instead and I left discord again and went back to my comfy Japanese twitter fandom for the other series.
No.7163
>>7162>a fan pointed out that the colors I used were the lesbian flagThis would drive me insane. Are you sure that server isn't just a modern day torture device?
>>7158I'm into fixed ships myself but Satosugu shippers are extremely mentally ill over it. I'm not even in the JJK fandom but I've seen the "Geto is a woman" posts you're talking about
and the artist I despise the most is a Satosugu shipper who draws him as a woman kek, it's as if they don't even like yaoi.
Even putting aside the block what you don't like mentality, I never understood the point in fighting over top/bottom dynamics since there's no right and wrong in it or objective criteria you can appeal to. It's annoying to see people treat it like a science and make up delusional arguments about why XYZ CANNOT be a top instead when it's just an arbitrary preference on who you want to see get fucked in the ass. People would be less autistic over t/b dynamics if it didn't carry the almost inherent characterization/who gets feminized factor. Even among some vers shippers I've seen they change who they feminize according to who they're making bottom at the moment, which is strange.
No.7166
>>7158In my fandom everyone who likes bigger bottoms gets super fucking offended by people who like smaller bottoms and constantly make snarky comments about them and how they're being "heteronormative" while the bigger top/smaller bottom crowd just mind their own business. Some extreme insecurity is at play there.
No.7167
>>7163I cringe so hard at the thought of witnessing something like that if I made a series that ended up being popular.
I always had the mindset to be chill about everything and enjoy every sort of ship should I ever make a series, but this type of discussion would make me want to delete myself. I guess I make a memo to add at least one scene that shows the silhouette of the dick for every male character of mine to prove that they're men should I ever publish anything.
I doubt it will prevent these discussions but it will probably piss them off if it happens later in the series and it will be harder to argue around this.
No.7168
>>7158>making him literally a womanAll of this because of one page where Takaba imagines Kenjaku has a hot nurse. This scene will make things even worse once it will be in the anime.
No.7169
>>7168Didn't read JJK so it's literally just some typical imaginary joke scene?
No.7172
>>7169Kind of, it doesn't directly involve Geto but a character that
uses his corpse to pretend to be him for a little while, and to use his specific powers because Geto is the 2nd strongest human in this setting and another character who can manipulate reality but only if he finds it funny and he doesn't even realizes he can do it. So basically there are a few chapters with these two guys just doing stupid comedy routines together and we see for just two or three panels that if Geto were a woman he'd look tall, curvy and hot. Satosugu shippers ran with it, and even some male fans unrelated to shipping stuff and who hate fujoshi were joking that
they wish Gojo were alive to see that… for shipping reasons yeah they actually proved it themselves that they hate gay pairings but would like them if one of the characters were a woman. I can't even make this up.>>7170It's weird when artists treat him like a delicate princess just for not being as tall as Gojo, the guy who's tall enough to play basketball on a professional level. And he's physically stronger than almost everyone except Maki and Toji according to some extra in the manga or guidebook too so as you said he's not meant to be skinny either. I don't ship Gojo with Nanami but I wonder if the ones who do treat Nanami this way, since he's more or less as tall as Geto.
No.7176
>>7171I told yumes this shit would happen when they kept demonizing fujos out of spite and utilizing scrotes and pickmes as their attack dogs instead of defending us when they kept screaming female "goonery" and "degeneracy". I told them they wouldn't stop at fujos and that they would come for yumes next. Guess the dumb degenerate fujo was right, who knew!
The rapid normalization of open misogyny and homophobia is truly worrying though. I want to believe that the money LADS makes would shield all female-oriented media for at least some time.
No.7177
>>7171I think all the retards complaining about it are going to instantly forget about LADS once they find something new to whine about in a week
I like to think women's wallets have more pull than scrotes on Twitter that don't go outside
I'm a little more concerned about possible backlash around it being from a Chinese company, but that dips into policy I know nothing about
No.7178
>>7171>women are more coomeristic than malesOh, they've been trying to start that meme for a while. I rememeber they did it when that huge Game Freak Pokémon leak came out and they all posted memes about that now infamous Typhlosion story (which was written like a classic fairytale, it was not age gap rape bestiality smut like everyone pretended it was) saying "average woman sexual fantasy" or whatever and it started because they google translated the name of the employee who wrote it and the MTL gave a female name (a real translation later made it clear it was a male name). I don't even understand how thousands of people are even buying this shit when you can just browse the male and female sections on DLsite for a few minutes to recognize which gender typically has the most extreme coomer fetishes.
>female-oriented media that is erotic and romantic in nature is controlled or even banned as a measure against women's sexual freedomUnlikely but still more likely to happen than regulating 3dpd porn honestly, people are out there acting like shitty booktok smut is actually worse than the stuff that's on porn sites.
No.7179
>>7171everything is projection with them as if waifu games are 1000x worse with the parasocial aspect. men will be hypercritical of booktok smut when it's seen as normal for a guy to open up pornhub and jerk off to BARELY LEGAL TEEN STEPSISTER TAKES DICK UP THE ASS or LATINA PUBLIC GANGBANG all featuring real women
No.7181
>>7171I don't feel sorry for yumes tbh,
they demonized the shit out of fujos almost worse than men did.
If this was over some bl game they barely would care.
No.7182
>>7171I think those guys should count on their hands how many otome/yume phone games they know. Then count how many girl gacha games they know where you can marry a girl or spend time with her alone. "Girls have too high a standard to have sex with real men and it's ruining society", he yells, looking down on women as undeserving of his sex for failing to meet his standards.
>female-oriented media that is erotic and romantic in nature is controlled or even banned as a measure against women's sexual freedomAlready happening in China, isn't it?
>>7178"YOU JUST KNOW", "WHITE WOMEN", blah blah blah, it's endless and they won't shut up about it at every opportunity.
No.7183
>>7171>>7178Yeah I once saw an /a/ thread about some manga where a girl dates a dog anthro and anons in the thread were doing that shit as if they don't know that men will slap giant tits on an airplane and then want to fuck it.
No.7186
>>7181I hate to see men talking shit about women hobbies but a lot of yume are very aggressive towards fujo because they feel morally superior.
This thread was insane
>https://x.com/ceeshells04/status/1885083676771483788But of course this shit happen with western yume who can't block or mute accounts, because the only good things that they can copy from Japanese yume is of course not blocking accounts you hate on sight.
Also complaining about making yaoi out of otomege boys it's fucking stupid.
No.7188
>>7186Kek this entire thread is clinical mental illness at display.
>HOW DARE YOU WRITE LADS M/M FANFICTION ON YOUR OWN ACCOUNT IN YOUR OWN SPACES MINDING YOUR OWN BUSINESS? RESPECT THE GENRES AND THE TARGET AUDIENCES YOU DON'T BELONG HERE!!!!!!!!!! you're INVADERS!!!! Should fujos stop writing fanfiction of shounen characters too because they should "respect the genres" and because "they don't belong in that space"? I'm straight up belly laughing at picrel, holy hell calm down.
No.7189
>>7186I understand forbidding M/M in official Discords and whatever the fuck but policing others on what they post on their own accounts is pure mental illness. LADS yumes are on another level of deranged megalomania.
No.7190
>>7188Don't show her the utapri fandom, she would have a heart attack and drop dead right there.
No.7191
>>7190Angelique had it's own yaoi doujinshi (and still do) and dudes were "paired" together for a reason.
I don't think yumejoshis are bad, but the notion a fictional character belong to you is as weird as waifufags.
No.7192
>>7188"invading spaces" feels like dudes complaining of women liking male-oriented hobbies. some people should count to five before typing down shit that made them sound like an 4chan incel
No.7193
>>7191I'm not surprised. I heard about Angelique when reading old shojo manga and seeing the authors writing comments about it and other between chapters. And at least one of them was adding some fujobait in her series, so I assume there's a bigger overlap between yumejoshi and fujoshi than some terminally online people believe.
No.7194
>>7158>(geto as the bottom) is truly off the charts in sensitivity and in making him literally a woman.I've noticed that a lot of people who are fixated in geto being a bottom used to be really into/really like danmei before jumping towards satosugu. To me, it kinda makes sense they're so anal because chinese fujos are really fixated on t/b dynamics. Rarely do you see depictions of the gong (uke) in the shou's (seme) position both in art and in fanfiction.
>how's the situation in your fandom nonas?I didn't know how to approach this in the thread initially a few weeks ago so thank you nonna for the question lmao. It's a bit long but I'll try to condense it to the best as I can. So, I was first presented with beef on xitter between a few people about someone who was still friends with an 'exposed' shotacon artist. Normally, I would be like "oh some morality proship discourse is happening who gives a shit just ignore it". However, the friend tried to one up them by accusing a popular mlm artist, whom I also followed a long time and was under the impression that they were friendly with each other, of being a pedophile. Really adamant like threads upon threads of how she was a sick person for making that stuff. Therefore, the shotacon artist is more morally superior cause he apologized and promised to go to therapy. All because the mlm artist was making porn of a toxic age gap ship and sexualising the 17 year old character in her nsfw account. This led me to dig deeper and holy shit this person is a total loser. Why in the fuck would you dm a person, whine and insult them cause your friends' sent you a message of them hating your het ship because you were both mutually blocked? And then continue to keep harassing them over it wtf. Also, genuinely a hypocrite cause she soon got exposed for following nsfw artists of the mha kiddos before the timeskip happened. (And no one mentioned it but I wonder about her opinion on Kohei 'Chapter 368 Color Page' Horikoshi).
And a reddit/discord mod used this situation to ban any people discussing about the mlm artist because he was still petty that his previous, retarded attempt to cancel her failed because of the artist's xitter complaint about leaks in the main discord server. All of this resulted in the artist's worsening mental health and her temporarily quitting art. But there was a big part of me that still thought it would've been a much longer hiatus. The only reason why I'm not cursing (that much) on the western fandom from high heavens is cause of the huge support she got. Plus the small mercy of the harasser being a het shipper was that I didn't see any blame on fujoshis so dudebros can't default this into "Gay shippers are a disease who ruined the fandom for everyone" shtick.
No.7195
>RAHHH I HATE HETSHIT REEE REEE MY FAV ISN'T A FUCKING STRAIGHTOID HE WOULD NEVER FUCK A WOMAN AIIIEEEEEE
but also
>omg I love super effeminate ukes I love when the uke is so weak and submissive and with watery bug eyes and so tiny it could fit in the seme's hands with a dick so small it might as well not be there and he wears dresses and get confused by a girl because he looks like a girl and even gets called girl petnames but is totally not a girl
Genuinely what do you call this phenomenon?
No.7196
>>7195Shit taste thats all i gotta say. bonus points if they make the uke a cuntboy but hes totes not a woman achtually so its not yucky hetshit!!!
No.7197
>>7171tbh I dislike both sides here
Male otaku are way worse than women and unlike women they're obsessed with porn of little children or anime characters that look like 12 at best or 3DPD porn, so yume stuff is really fucking harmless and healthy in comparison.
On the other hand part of the backlash comes from the feeling that yume pretended to be pure and only crave the true love while attacking everybody else including fujos and calling them coomers, dangerous, whatever.
While the female targeted ecchi IS a whole different thing from the male one maybe stop pretending to be a flawless, asexual being when you clearly read this stuff to shlick to multiple handsome men. In a sense they brought this upon themselves.
I don't see any men calling out fujos for being coomerish over masturbating to Golden Kamuy level of ecchi gay jokes or fujo VNs. Because fujos never pretended to be pure, the "rotten" is right in our name.
No.7198
>>7170I hate how binary their worldview is. Unironically. They should be the ones understanding that femininity and masculinity aren't black and white and that many traits work on both. I don't like how absolutely ever damn trait is considered feminine by these people. Can't have an elegant man anymore because elegance if feminine, so he must be a woman. Lust and temptation are female too, because medieval monks said so, so a horny man or a tempting sexy guy is a woman too because only women are sexual. But any sort of weakness is ALSO feminine. Basically every man can be seen as a woman by that logic.
No.7199
>>7193>I assume there's a bigger overlap between yumejoshi and fujoshi than some terminally online people believe.nayrt but I started watching both BL and reverse harem anime when I was a teenager because they both had hot guys in them and eventually got involved in both cultures, and I highly doubt I'm the only one. I didn't even know there WAS conflict between yumes and fujos before I saw it was a big thing on LC apparently with most of the spergery coming from yumes. It's so retarded to me, they're both female-dominated nerd hobbies that men constantly diminish, why add to the negativity and discourse by starting a civil war? I personally like both BL and reverse harems/otomes for different reasons and I do think they should remain separate communities, and obviously not everyone needs to be a fujoyume, but I don't see the point in arguing over which group's specific type of enjoyment of hot anime dudes is more legitimate or whatever. And despite being a fujoyume myself I know most shitflinging of this nature is started by yumes in the first place, which is why I only really talk about yume stuff with one IRL friend and that's it. I have a feeling I wouldn't really be welcome in most yume spaces.
The fujo vs yume war becomes even dumber when you consider fujobait in yume works isn't even that rare (Utapri is a good example, especially Natsuki and Syo's interactions) and the fact that most joseimuke out there do both yumebait and fujobait.
No.7200
>>7195well, a feminized uke is still a boy, so i don't see what you're trying to say. if its gay sex its gay sex, doesn't matter if he looks like a girl.
No.7201
>>7200If your uke acts and looks like a woman and then you complain about het pairs or heteronormativity you're just an hypocrite when you're basically either self-inserting or shipping het in denial. I'm specifically talking about those types of people that complain about 'heteronormativity' in their ships while still practically making their bottoms into women "but they still have a dick so it's gay"
No.7203
>>7195I don't know but this post I would call the "Least insecure musclepig bottom enjoyer".
No.7206
>>7204>two very small groupsI wonder. I'm starting to see this sort of sperging happen on social media as well (like the thread
>>7186 posted), though I guess the people involved usually are pretty terminally online. I guess it's similar to himes vs fujos which is another autistic internet slapfight I keep seeing more of. At the end of the day I suppose the solution is to keep to your own circle, but still, it'd be nice if there was less retarded discourse polluting fandom spaces.
No.7207
>>7204twist and tkrb fujo and yume exist because the nature of both stories (those fandoms i can talk about because i played the games/enjoyed fanworks). I can't tell if they coexist peacefully or not, but like someone mentioned japanese have no problem to make their own "safe environment" using mute/block function on places like twitter to avoid shit they don't want to see.
No.7210
>>7199I never liked otome to be honest and dislike everything involving marriage and most romance-heavy shoujo but I never cared about their fanbases or rivalry. Honestly, in the past I didn't even feel like there was an overlap. Maybe it's because of the series I was into (Berserk, Jojo, F/Z etc.), but the fujos I befriended never cared about otome.
I might maybe just never see those discourses or interactions on public spaces for not leaving my fandom bubbles since my interests are very limited. Maybe some of the artists I follow and talk to also like yume stuff and I just never noticed because I don't ask talk it. I experienced at least one yume-heavy fandom where absolutely none of the yume liked gay stuff though. They called it evil and dangerous or some shit. I never got into a conflict with them because I shipped two guys they didn't care about.
No.7241
I wish we could have a big fujo property. No more having to deal with mainstream stuff where fujos are always the minority, such as shounen or omni gachas that will have more waifus and where you have to deal with yuri fans calling fujos misogynist. But for anime there hasn't been any big fujo friendly series and for big gachas with actual gameplay there's no good joseimuke games. Even for joseimuke games now I get tired of having to deal with the yumepandering because yumes are always attacking fujos. I wish we could have one big property that was meant for fujos, not having to share with yumes or waifu. But then if such a thing exists as an anime it gets no budget and the adaptation is bad, or as a game it's half-assed and the gameplay is bad.
No.7242
>>7241Isnt nucarni the closest we've got to this or is the gatcha mechanics/actual gameplay subpar? I havent played it myself since the characters arent really my type but I respect the commitment to making a BL mobage game in an oversaturated market of moeslop
No.7243
>>7241how would you envision this fujo anime to be like? the genre, is it actual BL or just fujopander, etc.
No.7244
>>7241This is impossible because fujoyumes overlap waaaaaaaaay too much that's not very profitable on a larger scale. BLVNs have their niche and Otome VNs have their niche but neither of them are too strong.
Touken Ranbu was the closest to 'THE' fujo property but as you say, yumes are always attacking the fujos. Even though in the game to this day there really isn't a mention of a female saniwa anywhere.
Twst would also almost feel the same if not for it also gathering autistic yumejos too.
No.7246
>>7241Unfortunately I think there's just too many reasons why we don't get big fujopandering anime and games.
For anime the main issue is there's no incentive to make something that panders strongly to fujos. Stuff like Fairy Ranmaru flopped hard and you're far less likely to gain derivative audiences (aka extra profits) if your work explicitly panders to fujos, most people are stuck thinking something having BL elements in it means it's automatically garbage because fujos bad and have shit taste. I still remember when Yuri on Ice came out and became a HUGE sensation, as soon as people realized it wasn't going to shy away from being a fujo anime, all of a sudden people started nitpicking and criticizing animation, characters, anything they could to desparage it basically. If we want to go back a few years before that, well, I don't think I need to remind you how Free was received (and belittled).
As for games like
>>7244 said it's just not profitable. In the era of gachaslop maximizing profits as much as possible, it's better for companies to make joseimuke that panders to multiple crowds of nerdy women rather than just one. Nu:Carnival was the exception, not the rule, and the other Erolabs BL games that tried riding its wave did not garner a fragment of its popularity.
No.7247
>>7246>Fairy Ranmaru flopped hardDidn't that one weirdly straddle the line with yume bait? Bucchigiri also flopped because it didn't commit to fujopandering. If anything I think properties that puss out of committing on the gay elements because they don't want to alienate yumes or straight men are the ones that do badly.
No.7248
>>7242>or is the gatcha mechanics/actual gameplay subparI only played it a while around when it first launched and the first seasonal event so I dunno if anything changed but I ended up quitting cause I found it uninteresting to actually play once the novelty of the gay porn wore off.
No.7249
>>7241I think the closest thing we have to what you are describing is danmei. But as far as anime/games go, anything "meant for fujos" is doomed to either fail or remain niche because there are a zillion flavors of fujo and a lot of us have weapons grade autism about ships and what is "good". There is nothing that could unify fujos under one IP like waifufags or yumes, who have comparatively simple itches to scratch.
It seems crazy to type but IMO fujos have been "spoiled" by our outstanding doujin/fanfic creators. Our itches are scratched by other like-minded fujos or ourselves and I just don't think there is a way for a product to compete.
No.7250
>>7247>properties that puss out of committing on the gay elements because they don't want to alienate yumes or straight men are the ones that do badlyIt's kinda weird because what you say isn't wrong but I also feel like it's the exact opposite of the approach that's actually taken with fujo audiences nowadays. I think fujos are seen more as a nice little side audience rather than a target audience that's worth pandering to. Shonen anime, sports anime etc. all end up gathering a big fujo crowd despite fujos not being the main target audience, I think over the years studios noticed this and decided it was more convenient to receive fujo bucks while also never actually making anything that's PURELY for fujos (ignoring BL anime adaptations obviously). Aside from rare exceptions like Bravern, I can't really think of any recent anime that commits to the gay without backing out, then again maybe I'm just schizo but looking at seasonal anime these past few years I feel like the industry has been pandering extra hard to straight men lately, I feel like we got more shonen romcoms last summer than literally anything else. That's not even getting into all the self-insert isekai slop out there.
>>7249Sometimes I wish we lived in a world where dozens of different types of well made fujopandering shows were produced every year for every single strand of fujo autism, alas we will always need to cook our own food from the raw ingredients we are given. Homecooked meals are tasty and soulful, but sometimes I just don't feel like cooking and wish I could just go to a nice restaurant, you know?
No.7251
>>7241>But for anime there hasn't been any big fujo friendly seriesLiterally Bang Bravern
Nitro Chiral VNs are the biggest games I can think of, though the nonna that suggested Danmei as a genre is probably right I just haven't read any.
There are a ton of original BL works that come out with varying levels of popularity and fanfare. It exists, you just shouldn't expect a series that's a shonen to appeal to the BL itch by default, that's just a nice bonus.
No.7252
>>7250Honestly, I don't like fujopandering shows, they feel too artificial. I like omnipandering works that accidentally ended up pandering to fujos somehow but they just didn't even realize it. Although this is only a feeling of mid 2000s-2010s anime as companies are far more aware of fujos now.
Code Geass will always come to mind as accidental fujopandering to me
No.7253
>>7251>BravernNo one outside of here and /a/ gave a shit.
No.7255
>>7254Imo Bravern is popular, but just not appealing to the west. Maybe it's because they're both manly?
No.7256
>>7242I have nothing against nuc but people wanting a game with gameplay and story and not just porn is fair.
>>7246You're right about this and the biggest fujos properties always tend to be from shows with more mass appeal, with some exceptions. There was danmei and Yuri on Ice that got big for having canon BL, but most of the big fujos ships are either from shounen or omnipandering games. I still wish for separatism only because it results in so much anti fujo sentimes. We can't have any big fandoms that don't have the straight men crying about gay, or himejoshi calling fujos misogynists because they're not writing yuri. But fujos don't congregate that much in the joseimuke fandom, people want the mass appeal and we have less sausagefest properties that actually get big.
No.7259
>interested in new ship>only 6 fics on ao3, none on ffn>all of them turn one of the guys into an enbyInstantly muted all of the authors. Considered blocking them all too, but if I ever write for this ship, they’ll be able to realize that I blocked them if they ever look for this ship. I thought maybe I was crazy and the character really was somehow an enby revealed later in the game, but he’s a shapeshifter so apparently that means “literally me” to gendies. At least most of them were tagged as other instead of m/m, but it still pissed me off. Two of the fics weren’t gendie tagged so I got blasted by the word “xe.” At least there’s some doujins out there of them, but I don’t think they’re online sadly, so I’ll have to buy them myself to satisfy my urge.
>>7258God I hate untagged stuff like that. It’s an instant mute and often a block the second I see it was untagged and not an oversight by myself. Like I don’t get not tagging something that big. It’s a whole ass genderswap.
No.7260
>>7259mute them anyway
I'm going to use up my entire allotted user amount with how freely I mute anyone who writes untagged anything I'm not interested in.
Probably have 112 from My Hero Academia.
If they find out you've got them muted or blocked then oh well. These groups will endlessly say LOL I FREELY BLOCK LOL and encourage instant catty behavior on social media sites. Always proud to block, never okay when they get hit too.
I've been working on my own fic with tons of authors on my mute list who have had very similar ideas. But I don't care. I'm tired of their untagged ultra slop, in my results especially if they keep showing up by having the most works of the fandom/the longest/most popular.
No.7261
>>7258Do they still put it in M/M? I've tripped over this enough with one ship that I have to remember to filter by category as well (something I was not in the habit of doing given I browse by ship tag exclusively).
>>7253Bravern lacked certain fujoshi qualia that invite sprawling fanworks. In general western fujos really love to play in the sandbox so when you are a 12 ep show with a "whatever" tier ensemble cast there's really not a lot of sand in the box, you know? It reminds me a little of Samurai Flamenco in that while I was watching it I could tell there wasn't gonna be a lot of fanworks despite the homo levels being off the charts.
No.7262
>>7261Issue for me is while I liked the main ship and Bravern was a super fun character, everything else about the show was pretty shitty (particularly the loli character)
No.7265
>>7246Fairy Ranmaru flopped because someone made the retarded decision to include elements like kissing girls for power ups and a serial womanizer in a fujo pandering show. It was too straight for fujos and too gay for yumes.
No.7275
>>7253That happened because there was barely no promo, cr started the official sub a week after the release of the first episode and normie weebs if its not gundam or any other household brand, no one cares.
>>7255probably yes, i'm thinking of other show with the same amount of episodes and strong focus on the main characters and there is yuri on ice, and sports manga and ice skating (at the time of yoi release) was very popular. also what i said my post above, if its a mecha and is not gundam it's hard that will get people interested.
No.7276
>>7275*sport anime, sorry
honestly not bothered that eng bravern community is very little, less annoying fags to deal with and we had a bunch of schizos trying to ruin everyone fun.
No.7277
>>7276Few years ago I would have disagreed and said more fans are better because I was/am in the Transformers fandom and my big bubble (1000+ artists I follow and just as many that follow me) is very comfy and chill. Until I realised that almost everybody I follow and most that follow me are Asian and a few Russians, not westerners.
Now I am also into Bravern and the dudes from some other show and I draw the latter and both fandoms are mainly Asian and I am fine with it. It's so chill, people are just having their fun. Even the big fandoms like Golden Kamuy are so nice as long as the fans are Japanese. With the TL tool of twitter it's no problem understanding everything they say anyway. Better to hang out with them. Whenever I get a glimpse of the western or tumblr part of the TF fandom I realise it's full of shit, bad artists and trans stuff + genderbending an OCs. The chill westerners will always adapt to Asian communities and just draw, retweet and have fun.
No.7278
>>7277Yeah, sometimes I think maybe I'm just being a prejudiced weeb and try following a western artist but 90% of the time they retweet tranny/political headcanon shit almost immediately.
No.7279
>>7277Not saying that jpn fandom is better, it has it's own issues. Depending how big the fandom is it could be either AB vs BA shipping discourse or passive-aggressive haters. First thing that pops in my mind with Bravern, as example, is the non-human shippers, a minority but very annoying.
I have my fair share of big fandom i left behind, and I left them at their peak because the discourse was way too unbearable to deal with, making interactions with people inside the fandom not enjoyable as they were before.
I think now anyone can experience a japanese game, anime, manga etc and not being forced to interact with eng fandom. Like you said it's even more easier now than it was years ago.
No.7281
>>7278Yeah it's a shame. Even some oldfag fujos I knew have recently fallen for this and they aren't even that young anymore. I don't even use the really bad places like tiktok or instagram, don't want to know how things are looking there. I feel like most of this stuff comes from tiktok, twitter is almost "nerdy" compared to that and IG and everytime I ask a casual or normalfag what websites they use (to them it's "apps") they mention these two.
Even in the smaller fandom I am drawing for now the only ones that headcanoned some trans stuff were, ironically, the only two other English speaking artists. I wish westerners were more chill and had more fun with canon content instead of forcing politics and what are basically OCs into fandoms.
No.7292
>>7261I'm shocked Yuri on ice got such a big fandom in the West since I can't think what else there is to write that much fanfic about.
No.7293
>>7292I feel the same way, if the characters actually get together in the show it's cool, but I instantly lose interest from a fandom perspective.
YOI had a lot of promo and infiltrated normie spaces so it captured more than just a fujo net and I think that helped. Right place, right time sort of deal.
No.7294
>>7293I think the majority of fanworks are eventually born from the urge of settings things right, this is why the majority comes from fujos in the first place. We basically feed ourselves since canon isn't providing much. Even if you get dudes who feel like they're married have no interest in women it's different from actual canon confirmation and more commonly the characters that are popular among fujos will just die or get a bad end since they're antagonists or side characters.
This is probably one of the reason for why canon yaoi barely ever gets any fanart, apart from also being too short to make people get attached to the characters and today also often too fluffy or sex focused (depending on the type) so there is nothing you can "correct" anymore.
The best shit for fujos are heavily gay hinted dudes who live in a cruel world and die before the series ends. That stuff often gets the most, same as MC/enemy since they are doomed to kill each other.
No.7295
>>7294Not only that but I noticed the quality shoots way up the less canon it is.
I don't know why, but there is something that hits different with Westerners when the most popular pairings would never-ever happen get professional grade treatment.
MHA has the behemoth of the main 3 boys+Kirishima and there are novel length, published quality fanfiction of every combination between them. Not to say shounen has the best quality fanwork, but it gets it because there's no way in hell it can happen canonically. It's a damn shame Tales of flatlined so hard, because I don't think I've seen a fandom more committed to the briefest hint at a potential pair.
No.7297
>>7294While I mostly agree with this I have to argue that the success of danmei fandoms in the west shows us canon homo CAN be overwhelmingly popular in this manner if it still has what (imo) are fujoshi staples: protracted narrative with a lot of "what ifs", an ensemble cast that is fun to play with, and a world that is interesting to pick at. MDZS's main canon homo ship has over 45k works on Ao3, for example.
Going off of
>>7295 mentioning MHA, if it had for real ended with Bakugo/Deku that would not have stopped the fanworks because that relationship has so many arcs and what ifs to it that the urge to play with it would still be there, just like LWJ/WWX.
No.7300
>>7295>Not only that but I noticed the quality shoots way up the less canon it is.My heroes are the authors who publish a 40k novella about a random rarepair with less than 20 fics
No.7357
I swear people are too fucking weak now.
I see people complain that they don't like a ship because "it's too angsty/it's too tragic" and prefer to just ship the uwu cutesy 'nothing ever bad happens' bland shit. They're allergic to any half of the ship dying (or both) because "how will I think about them in cute date scenarios?"
Have you learned nothing from your kawoshin ancestors?
No.7358
>>7357kek Kawoshin fans are such a good example. Created one of the biggest, most active and long-lasting BL fandoms ever and all they had to work with was one single episode out of 26 from some series that has aired decades earlier.
I fully agree. A bit sadness and tragedy makes a ship better because you have a REASON to work on better outcomes for them and you can explore both, the happy and the dark parts. What's even interesting about a happy pairing in a happy, peaceful world? Why do they even stick to each other? Because they're both "nice"? It feels so boring and bland to me.
I wonder if such fans even last long. I cannot imagine that passion can burn for long if all you do is drawing or writing the same domestic fluff scenes over and over again.
No.7361
>>7357>>7358It's kinda funny to read this as someone who got her fujo awakening from kawoshin but now is hesitating to get into Orb cause the good gay fanart is from a doomed ship. I guess my reasoning is moreso that I'm not really into modern reincarnation AUs so I dunno how much else there really is to explore otherwise. Guess I'll never know unless I just dive in and see what else people are making.
No.7411
>>7294>The best shit for fujos are heavily gay hinted dudes who live in a cruel world and die before the series ends. This is accurate, but I notice outside of Japan no one goes for these ships anymore. You're right, we get very little canon gay with actual interesting dynamics and the majority of mainstream fiction has gay antagonists who die or it's unrequited. Fandom used to fix this in fics, but it never happens anymore because people don't give it a chance or they just comprehend not sticking completely to canon.
>>7357People are too literal minded for fanfic now. Nobody used to care if half or both characters in a ship died, or if someone got straight married because we knew any canon homo was never going to happen. But zoomers can't comprehend characters being in different scenarios than canon. They think making a what-if for a dead character and if they got to live is necrophilia. They think breaking up a het marriage is misogyny and making the man cheat on his wife. They think that if you take a ship with teenagers and fast forward five years when they're adults and writing about them having sex is pedophilia. They see characters literally as real people, not constructs you can move around. Which is why they see the people in fandom who aren't like them and they succeed in beating them down with these arguments. It has changed, but for the worst, as the older fans start aging out of anime and the new fans come in with this mentality.
No.7412
>>7411Yeah this. I LOVE my favs, I want them to be happy too. But in the end a good interplay between dark and light-hearted parts will add so much more depth and variety to their life and dynamic and a bittersweet or sad end will spurn you on to do something better. The story feels incomplete to you in a certain way. Happy ends are final. There is not much more to add.
That aside, from a pure pragmatic perspective: a series ends anyway. And the characters eventually die anyway, even if it's not shown. So why not make it more epic and let them go with a bang?
So much better. And so much more inspiring. It's why I never got into most actual BL manga. They can be good, but I am talking about obsessions here.
No.7415
Recently learned what the western fans think of my main ship in a fandom. They start out claiming the ages of the characters are morally objectionable, then when reminded they're both over 18 they all switch to accusing every shipper of mischaracterizing them and making it violent and rapey.
One of the characters in this ship is my fave, and the reason I stay away from the western fandom is because every time I look at them discussing him they are mischaracterizing him as violent and evil. They're always the same people who say those who ship him with an older guy should die. If I stay on the eastern side it's all cuddles and x gets a cold comics, if I look on the western they're slandering him and saying he's not allowed love.
Then I found this thread where people were ranking ships in the fandom and commenting on them. My top ship they pull out the age argument and DNIs, but when my fave is paired with more vulnerable characters they commented positively and said they were obsessed with it. I'm not huge on one of those ships because the other guy is really innocent and helpless, and has strong views on sex. I get the feeling that even though that ship is more dubious than the consenting bros, they approve of it because realistically it wouldn't involve sex. The down to fuck guy is a bad ship because sex, the scared of sex guy is good because no sex. I think the down to fuck guy should be teaching the scared guy about sex, which many of them are already shipping so why are you dragging my fave through the mud.
No.7420
>>7415>The down to fuck guy is a bad ship because sex, the scared of sex guy is good because no sex.Yes this is something I a noticed as well. They basically hate sex, this is why they often stick to literal kids (especially if it's cartoons) since they assume nobody younger than 18 would have sex and get mad if fan is implying it. They hate adults too unless they heavily dilute their personalities and make them innocent uwus. Some of them don't ship at all and only self-insert or fawn over a specific character and get angry if you ship them.
I genuinely believe that this is also the main reason for why there is such a hate against series like Hazbin and such. I don't mean the people that logically explain why they aren't a fan, but the aggressive hatred. These people just hate sex. Even if they casually ship what I like (usually grown-ass adult men) they HAVE to headcanon them as being virgin maidens who are scared of sex.
No.7424
>>7411Those developments make me worry. Fujos will disappear if this continues. It annoys me everytime younger fujos refuse to watch something I recommend because the gayness isn't obvious enough.
Like I recommend something where one man is working for and supporting another one out of his own free will throughout the whole series. They hug, they spend their free time with each other laugh together, eat together and never once talked to a woman. But this apparently not enough and just "bait" because the series doesn't state they're canonically married or something
groan Worse, even when they get into it regardless they lack any sort of creativity. They cannot come up with own ideas! I had most of my western fandom friends become inactive for a newer fandom as soon as our ship didn't appear in canon anymore after being relevant for like 100(!) chapters. They simply CANNOT think of anything to do even though we have a shitton of hints and facts to work with that canon hasn't directly shown. Still, nada. It's like tiktok has fried everybody's brain.
No.7426
>>7424I feel like a lot of people have a one track mind when it comes to enjoying fiction. Only watching stuff you already know you'll like and ignoring potentially interesting stuff because it's not your usual niche. It's a shame because a lot of great fujo works come out of pretty unlikely fandoms, I really hope not all young fujos are like the ones you describe.
>It's like tiktok has fried everybody's brain.Slight blogpost but I used to be guilty of ignoring meaningful activities in favor of dopamine frying garbage for a few months last year while going through a really rough patch and I can confirm, short form content like that is literal brain numbing poison. I always felt too tired to engage with anything meaningful after doomscrolling on YT shorts or Instagram reels and it certainly did not encourage creativity. Good luck getting lost analyzing your OTP when you're too busy lobotomizing yourself. So I wouldn't be surprised if a significant amount of people think it would be more fun to fry their dopamine receptors than to actually discuss and create for their fandoms past their "expiration dates".
No.7427
>>7426Yeah, socmedia is made to make you addicted. And you can scroll endlessly. I probably have a bit of a higher defense due to the lack of popular interests so there isn't much to watch or read. But even then I sometimes feel like scrolling twitter again and think "what if someone did post some new fanart in the meantime?" It's really stupid but you have to abstain from it and reduce scrolling to specific times (like once every day when you get home from work, to check all the new fanart).
I see it happening with my friends too. Most of them don't do anything but scrolling and video watching anymore. They aren't even zoomers. It's just that scrolling encourages the quickest and easiest way of gratification that makes you
feel like doing something. It's a form of addictive procrastination.
I notice that I only ever get creative when I am afk or rumination over something for a while. Creativity is a bit like warming up for sports. Jogging won't work if you run for two meters and take a break or get distracted.
No.7428
>>7424Tangentially related but this reminds me of the conversation on here a few weeks ago with the nonnas who were upset about P5 not featuring a gay romance and that conversation leading into the popularity of Danmei fanworks.
If you're going into anything that isn't explicitly marketed as gay I think feeding yourself is expected and fun honestly. I'll never get the mindset of bailing or complaining about something not coming to fruition unless it's a work like Voltron where the creators were egging on fans. As you said those 100s of chapter still exist. On the other hand I like the fact that works with gay characters can inspire thousands of fanworks even if it doesn't give me plot bunnies. I think a lot of people who bail a fandom the second their ship doesn't become canon should give works with confirmed gays a glance or try more BL manga that's still plot-focused like Acid Town or Fake.
No.7429
>>7428Yeah. I think that fans shouldn't even divide everything in canon and non-canon. I get that they would view a pairing as non-canon if the guys ended up marrying women (though even then it shouldn't prevent them from creating fanwork AUs). But they even consider relationships non-canon that might as well be, like the one I mentioned.
I am not saying they are canon but I wouldn't call them non/anti-canon either, especially if the canon reveals that they stick to each other only. The canon-complicity of such a pairing is basically a gray area or like schrödinger's cat. It's strange when even that isn't enough for fans.
No.7431
>>7424Fujos are already being beaten underground by both het shippers and himejoshi on twitter. Too many people being in a mixed space means fujos will always be at the bottom because their ship doesn't include a woman, and this makes everyone mad. Just look at the Arcane fandom. People can't even ship those two guys without getting tons of shit
People have always hated fujos but I feel like the backlash now is just constant. There's no that much canon gay out there, and now trying to ship from things like anime has become a chore, with shounen becoming more het centric. Fujos know how to sabotage themselves too, with all the crying about "bait", but when these new younger fujos have never had a space where they were encouraged, I have begun to see why they obsess over ships needing to be canon. It's the only argument they have against people calling them misogynists. And when all the interesting ship dynamics either get called abusive because its hero/villain or two rivals, or one characters dies so they feel they can't ship it, or they're side characters so people in fandom have a problem with a side m/m ship being shipped over some canon het ship, these new fujos literally don't know how to have fun the way other older fujos do. Not to be alarmist, but add this with the shorter attention spans and fandom is changing, not for the better.
No.7432
>>7424>Fujos will disappear if this continueNot gonna happen lmao?
No.7433
You can't get rid of me and my autism that's for sure.
No.7434
>>7431You are right to say this because in Western fandom shipping became a competition, something that tells to others who you are so of course ppl get bashed left and right BUT that issue only exist because ppl don't want to stay in their lane, like
ppl do in cn/kr/jp fandom, no one there is gonna compete on how many fic entries has a yuri ship than yaoi etc
if it was for me we should all go back to livejournal days with open and closed communities, anon kink meme etc
No.7444
>>7443Oh man we are doomed
No.7445
>>7443I already knew female seme 女攻め existed which is used for femdom het with pegging etc.
No.7447
>>7431>beaten underground by both het shippers and himejoshi on twitterI hope more artists continue to move to bluesky. I am just using a simple "proship DNI in profile" blocklist and I literally do not see this kind of shitflinging anymore.
>crying about "bait"I've come to the conclusion that I'd take take high quality "bait" over a canon m/m ship that I don't care about. Like yeah I'm always gonna be butthurt when the middling m/f canon ship cucks the interesting m/m "bait" ship, but baited fandoms usually have hundreds if not thousands of high quality fics to soothe that burn.
>>7424>Fujos will disappear if this continues.I think the community could be at risk when there is the baton pass between older fujos who have created community infrastructure in face of adversity and gen z/alpha fujos who seem to be more susceptible to browbeating, but I also think having your preferences quashed as a young, budding fujo is something you can grow out of. The heart wants what it wants. You can't beat a shipping brainworm.
No.7475
One half of my OTP was engaged to a woman who died literally hundreds of years ago, and his ex-fiancee only exists as a throwaway character who doesn't even get a canon appearance, but western fans will bend over backwards to make it clear the guy still really loves his ex-fiancee but he's willing to reluctantly let her go to finally have a chance with the other half of my OTP. It's so over the top and unnecessary, yet we still get accused of hating female characters because this guy had a girlfriend once upon a time. At this point, I have the majority of the western fandom blocked.
No.7477
"fujos" that like shitty written canon het ships weird me out, like how do you go from bl with complex bonds and heartfelt dilemmas to plain old tsundere bullshit with baka and zero development?
No.7478
>>7477I think some people just like having a complete puzzle, every character paired off. If you have an even number of characters someone has to end up with the girl so if bland MC already is with her then there is no need to disrupt that.
I don't see many fujos who vocally like het, there are some fandoms with a singular popular het pair, but yaoi/yuri are much more popular fandomwisem
No.7479
>>7477I follow jp fujoshi who likes pretty much anything, but it's more common to see them like something het than yuri imo especially if they are old because a lot of them grew up reading shoujo. Which is not unusual, I grew up reading classic shoujo and more than often I come back re-reading some of them because there is something that is hard to find in BL
No.7485
>>7484It really bothers me when people hetbend a gay ship but I don't like to make it political or get on someone's case over it cause it's just fictional. If an artist suddenly sprung that on me I'd unfollow and mute, though.
No.7486
>>7477There's plenty of generic and bland BL ships/original couples (or ships that can be interesting written in the blandest way) too so it's not surprisig.
No.7487
>>7477leaving aside the fact that some of these het ships might have a genuine appeal that you personally dont see, which is fine because to each their own, when these ships are genuine slop i think it might boil down to emotional attachment.
i think most fujos didnt start out as one and had a couple of possibly mediocre het ships beforehand, and never really moved on due to having nice childhood memories linked to them as core series
No.7488
>>7484Contrary to what most people here would agree to disagree to, if I'm extremely autistic about my OTP I will like them in every other way. It really depends on the characters to make them 'het' but in general if I like my ship I don't like them purely on the fact of them being men but their story and personalities, so if one of them was a girl nothing would really change, or if both were.
I started as a fujo who used to be autistic about seeing het with my favorite characters, be it yume or hetbends or some 'canon girl pair' they had. I still don't like them very much but I have gotten around that with age.
I guess it genuinely really depends on who you ask. There's people who absolutely love some good twinky twink uke but I don't, there's people who love the confident yaoi chinned yaoi handed seme but I don't, etc.
I get more bothered when their characters aren't taken in consideration in the -bending process.
Never gonna understand trannyfication though. I can get around cuntboy (most of chinese fanartists draw cuntboy, it's inevitable) as long as it's not meant to be trans.
No.7489
>>7477I don't get it either. The strange thing is that they never like the good/uncommon het then, it's always the worst kind like literal shounen MC/"oniichan" not-sister, perma-horny, devote housewife + MC or woke Karen and husband. There are (rarely) m/f teams or friends that are genuinely cool and would make good ships but I never see them shipping these.
I see fujos more often pretending that characters with fujo pandering were bi and that we should consider them as such and it rubs me the wrong way too. Like why is it so important? How about headcanoning canon het characters as bi instead? Why must it be the few gay-coded characters we get?
No.7491
>>7488>if I'm extremely autistic about my OTP I will like them in every other wayI think for me this depends on the ship and whether het-bending it turns the dynamic into something I don't like. E.g - age gap teen x older man - I might still like teen x older woman if the genderbent woman isn't turned into a submissive waifu. Twincest or older bro x younger bro I can't stand as het because I hate oniichan x imouto and if I'm shipping m/m twincest the point is that they are the same gender and look the same. I can enjoy it as f/f but not m/f. Whenever I see hetbend (and transbend lol) the point is 99% of the time that the author wants them to do PiV and have babies or do typical anime siscon tropes, which I'm extremely not into.
No.7492
>>7491>Whenever I see hetbend (and transbend lol) the point is 99% of the time that the author wants them to do PiV and have babies or do typical anime siscon tropes, which I'm extremely not into.I've never seen either of these. It's probably because of the type of characters I like but when I see hetbend it's almost always one of them being extremely casual and unladylike while the other tries their best to cope with the situation. The wild girlfriend who sits spread legged and walks around in just an oversized shirt, that sort of thing.
No.7493
>>7488>Contrary to what most people here would agree to disagree to, if I'm extremely autistic about my OTP I will like them in every other way. exactly nona! i like my otp so much that every version of them is appealing to me. being a fujo, the fact they're both guys is a plus to me, but i also just love their dynamics and their characters too much to only enjoy it based off their genders, so i like their every version really.
actually my specific otp does suffer from the "and then he got her pregnant" with the uke being drawn as feminine waifu of sorts but their whole thing even as their original m/m version is that the seme is obsessed with the uke, and the uke is a more demure and proper guy compared to the manly rowdiness of the seme, so i think that's partly where it comes from, so i dont mind it despite being often strongly against heteronormativity.
No.7494
I don't like hetbending because I cannot view them as the same characters anymore if someone changes the gender or species. Even that aside the vibes they give off are always different and I am not even talking about the real bad hetbending that completely changes their look and personality.
Also, I am not attracted to women which doesn't make it easier. I am usually an artfag that saves every piece of fanart for the ship I am obsessed with but genderbending is one of the rare things I will ignore.
No.7495
I'm a militant hetbend hater kek. Not for any particular reason besides not being into M/F much to begin with. Even if it was done in a canon compliant or "subversive" manner I wouldn't be interested since I just don't like het itself rather than issues with heteronormative dynamics. I find people that disallow and call hetbends homophobic annoying though so I try to be quiet about it because I don't want to be associated with them.
No.7496
Nothing dramatic but I will never understand how people can be envious of or angry at other artists for getting a bunch of retweets. I am not even doing it for RTs, I am posting art because I love the characters and drawing them anyway so I might as well share so that other fans are as happy as me whenever I see their works. And I am only getting retweets because I spend up to 20h on an artwork to make it perfect, not because I want the RT but because I love the characters so much that I want to shill them and convey my feelings of them.
But there are always a few people that try guilt trip others for getting engagement and when that someone is a person I considered a friend I am honestly a bit hurt myself. Plus points if they vague-mention you when they vent or attack the very people they follow for retweeting an artwork of you, be it on principle or because you casually ship a character with someone else they don't like. In this case it's the latter, but she casually ships the same character with a bunch of others as well that I don't like. Just block me already instead of making everything weird. These people guilt-trip their mutuals and then complain about not getting enough retweets. I give up and just ghost her from now on should she ever talk to me again (she probably won't).
Rest of the fandom is great though so I am having fun, I just think it's sad.
No.7497
>>7494yeah not liking hetbending isn't a problem, and i can see why especially fujos wouldn't be into it. it's more so making a big fuss out of it that bothers me, but that's something that happens in fandom constantly for everything these days.
i was in a group chat dedicated to my otp and someone posted a het art of them and a member crashed out and left, and others were like "this is a queer space and this is homophobic and im uncomfortable with hetbending of them so dont post it anymore". like, come on. not liking it? completely fair, but being "uncomfortable" with a totally harmless drawing to the point of having a meltdown is genderspecial levels of sensitivity and these people just shouldnt be on the internet
besides that, m/m really has a special flair that even the most canon compliant hetbending of it cant replicate so ill always be more enamored with my ships their original way, so i get not seeing the appeal
No.7498
>>7497Oh man, I only know the polar opposite, with everybody het- or yuribending my characters all the time and everybody but me praising it because more women allegedly means it's woker
I wish woke fags would just completely disappear from fandoms. I like progressive people but when I say "woke" I am rather thinking of the hypocrites that use social justice talk to attack members of a fandom they don't agree with.
Even if their stuff WAS more woke than my m/m it doesn't matter since it's a fandom. I come to enjoy gay fandom stuff not het shit.
No.7499
I feel like it's fine if there's also yuri and yaoi bending as well. In the fanbase of my otp, it seems popularity of these things go crossdressing yaoi > het bending > yaoibending het ships > yuribending
No.7501
>English speaking part of the fandoms (including Asians who can communicate in English)
>tranny shit
>cuntboy shit
>genderbending shit
>fatwashing shit
>OC shit
>tumblr artstyle
>race/species swap
>anti shit
>angry "think pieces"
>character hate (usually tagged with the name of the character)
>user hate
>artists that draw like 5 year olds
>three (3) artists that are actually good and stick to the designs, mostly refuse to talk (probably to keep their distance from the rest)
>politics
>non-English part of the fandom
>tons of talented artists that draw on-model
>the few that aren't have appealing artstyles and stick to the canon designs
>posts about actual headcanons instead of politics
>no user hate, if people dislike someone they mute and mind their own business
I know it might be different for genshi and other teen-flooded fandoms but this my experience with multiple fandoms. I stick to the Japanese side (sometimes with Russians and Chinese) and experience none of the shit which proves to me that the people claiming that yurification and trans etc was natural are full of shit. It's cultural influence. The Asian fans that understand English are usually affected by that shit as well.
No.7502
>>7434The competition aspect isn't helped by everyone being on twitter, and them being able to reach and affect creators on there. Being loud on twitter has a personal stake for these people now.
No.7520
>>7503The western TF fandom is a particular kind of horror, I ignore it completely save for the 15? or so artists that are actually good. You recognize them easily because they draw like Japanese and usually stick to either G1 or IDW, probably because both of them have that anime mecha look.
There are hundreds of super talented Asian artists out there on top of that so I don't miss anything. Everytime someone posts a western fanart that isn't from one of the few good artists it's either tranny, humanformers or one of the fanarts with these annoying cartoony looks that are basically the calarts style.
No.7539
>>7484A single "what-if" hetbend done for the fun of it is no problem. It becomes undeniably homophobic when someone continuously hetbends multiple ships because at that point it's pretty clear they have an issue with same sex relationships. I have an OTP I'm really into and some of the fans constantly draw the more effeminate one as a straight up woman with big tits and treat him as such, and I seriously can't take it any other way than someone not being able to respect and accept same sex romance on the same level as straight romances.
No.7566
>>7487Obviously, a person that has an attachment or self-inserts will ship it regardless, I get that. But something can be subjective only to a certain point, objectively, some fictional relationships are badly written and full of repetitive tropes. I would not bat an eye if not for some people literally claiming it was the best love story ever written just because they have an emotional attachment to it.
>>7486Yeah agreed, but at least with bl it's mainly for the characters looks I think
No.7609
Fujos always talk about transwashing and cuntboys and all that and I agree it's shit, but does anybody else has the problem that you can simply not.. enjoy western art in general, even if it's depicting dudes?
There are always a few great western artists, but you wouldn't be able to tell they're westerners because they more or less adapt the canon art style of a series, maybe even make it better (like Asians usually do).
The other westerners instead (90%+) seem to make it disgusting on purpose and it honestly alienates me because I feel like it's a cultural thing that's foreign to me. I swear in 19 out of 20 cases when I see western artists their art is just UGLY. Not the proficiency, the style itself, the faces, the mouth, addition of weird teeth because they're vore fags, ugly eyes, fatwashing or other crap.
Even on /a/ I see anons posting this shit and it doesn't even look anime related, it looks like someone made fanart for a shitty comic. Why the fuck do westerners try to turn anime into western shit? I cannot tell if it's done on purpose or if they are so influenced by western (mostly American) shit that it's in their DNA to draw a hot anime character like a fucking family guy- or daily strip character.
If it was 2D-Disney it would be at least pretty, but it's always the ugly styles they choose.
No.7610
>>7609Imo you're biased because the western art you see posted is specifically that ugly style but it's a minority in the grand scheme of things, it's just so blatantly western it colors the entire perception of the art scene.
The Disney/Cartoony style is what I see the most of from western fan artists, or pic related with that kind of chibi-esque faux anime.
No.7614
>>7609Most western artists I encounter these days emulate a pretty anime style but I've spent years on tumblr in the 2010s so I definitely remember when 'tumblr nose' was a thing and all those virtue-signalling quirks like adding fat rolls and stretch marks. I've only seen one recent example where I get the impression the artist is making her character ugly on purpose cause his nose is huge and hooked and his cheekbones are exaggerated and he has huge hairy pecs. It's probably not a coincidence that this artist is 'intersex trans gay two-spirit'.
No.7615
>>7609There are many amazing western artists out there who draw in anime style and I appreciate their work just like I do Asian artists' work, but the western art style itself is so fucking ugly I can't enjoy it. The one with big, defined noses, close set eyes, thick lips, the ugly and muddy coloring style, the annoying expressions, the linework that's too thick, the stiff composition… It just looks ugly.
>I cannot tell if it's done on purpose or if they are so influenced by western (mostly American) shit that it's in their DNA to draw a hot anime character like a fucking family guy- or daily strip character. I guess it's 50/50. They don't feel comfortable emulating anime style due to having grown up with western cartoons and comics and also maybe consider it… inferior? Because all art schools in the west always look down on it.
No.7616
>>7609>>7615
>They don't feel comfortable emulating anime style due to having grown up with western cartoons and comics and also maybe consider it… inferior? Because all art schools in the west always look down on it.It's this and that DeviantArt made anime style "cringe" if it doesn't look perfect, so they feel it's safer to make art that's ugly on purpose. And they're terrified of being called weebs so they have to make their love of anime ironic somehow.
No.7617
I agree with what everyone is saying about Western art. That's why when I draw, I mostly try to not emulate anime art and just go for realism (or, something similar I don't have a word for?). If I can't make a satisfactory anime style, there's no need to force myself into doing something that I know won't work anyway.
No.7618
>>7617Eh, I made peace with my cursed anime, comic, and disney-esque art style but you do you nonna.
No.7620
>>7609This argument is so retarded to me because there are waay too many artists online nowadays, and Asian artists also have a lot of bad, low skill artists that get popular or draw weird shit like grotesque cat human hybrids and make everything, even non-anime, into anime too. Even the typical Korean artist is a gendie now, and Thai artists draw cuntboy/mpreg at higher rates than Western ones. The average Asian artist doesn't improve the art style of the media they draw, you just filter through to the talented ones.
No.7622
>>7620>and Thai artists draw cuntboy/mpreg at higher rates than Western onesI noticed that too why is that?
No.7623
>>7620Same bringing up fringe "Tumblr" art as the standard for western fan artists seems so outdated and its never been true. It was a minority then and it's a minority now, that shit just gets reposted and mocked so much people just assume it to be the standard when it was like 100 people max. James Hart "How to Draw Manga" deviantart tier fanart has always been the bigger plague.
Give any tag on Pixiv a search and you'll see bad JP artists, they're just bad in different ways from westerners.
No.7626
>>7610Eh, maybe there are more that are good at drawing moe shit but I don't look for that art and girly blobs (I assume it's girls but might as well be boys). I noticed that the majority is just way worse at drawing on average. This doesn't mean that great artists don't exists, just that they are way rarer. If the fandom is evenly split between 50% Japanese and 50% westerns I can guarantee you that 90% of the artists I will follow will be the first not the latter. The 10% are great though.
>>7612Yeah it's often off, even IF they try to immiate the style. They also cannot draw men (men, not boys) to save their lives and usually make them look like girls even when there is no troonwashing involved.
No.7629
I have such a love/hate relationship with what has been deemed 'dead dove' or dead dove spaces. What is considered proship/dead dove space in theory should be what old fujoism used to be, shipping without caring whether something was immortal or not, just…simply shipping? People who shipped the Ed brothers or the hitachiins didn't need to throw an essay about how they were raped by their brother as a child and how they're projecting their trauma into the ship now leave them alone. You just shipped them because brothers hawt and that was it.
Now almost every space that is for a standard fujo, a proship/dead dove space is:
- Full of gender politics, for some reason? Less shipping, less how shipping dadson shota rape actually helps victims overcome trauma and how it's very revolutionary feminist core
- Horny people 24/7 in such a moidy way that it becomes offputting. Imagine the obnoxiousness of cunnyfags on 4chan but 20x with somehow even more creep vibes than it should. Mind you, I like shota rape incest age gaps whatever else but I don't go "It'd be so fun if this character was such a pedo rapist ♥ I love when my fav is a PEDOPHILE!!!" that is said so unironically
- Basically no media literacy and no real interest for actually wanting to *care* about the ships. This is just a petpeeve of mine but if I like a ship it's because I like the characters and want to discuss shit, I don't wanna hear how you forgot your T-shot today or if you wonder if Character X would get their T-shot. I don't care to listen about your trauma through a ship, I'm not gonna play therapist for you when I want these characters to fuck without thinking that I'm enabling someone's 'coping mechanism'.
I just wanna ship shit, be a weirdo maybe but not have "I LOVE CHILD RAPE!!!" as a badge of honor
No.7630
>>7609I think there are a few reasons for western art usually looking different even when it is anime-esque.
>Disney and cartoon influence>Wanting your own unique style instead of copying anime 100%. >Japanese people grow up with manga clubs in school, they learn the real techniques for making manga look like manga and they practice by copying art they like. Most western artists don't have this background. The colouring, rendering and linework style used by western artists on a pro level is usually really different. Meanwhile more amateur ones like to do that low contrast soupy brown/red palette. Even Korean and Chinese manhwa/manhua style usually looks different from Japanese because the techniques learned and aesthetic culture are different.>Homestuck fandom popularized the trend of racebending, making characters fat etc because the characters were 'aracial' and blank canvases (despite the fact that you can see nobody is fat or has textured hair). Then it trickled down and became the norm.I understand wanting a unique style because I don't want to completely copy anime either, but anime also has a very wide variety of styles. For example, I don't like thin lines and thin lines are very common - but there are manga styles with thick lines too.
No.7631
>>7629THIS, all of this especially the second point. I thought I was the only one who noticed how weirdly offputting so-called "profic" spaces had become. I want to have a generally "normal" fandom experience but it's like anyone who self-IDs as "problematic" wants to be as edgy and off-putting as possible. I like my shota incest ships too but is it too much to ask people to treat them like they would vanilla ships? With regular discussions, fanarts, fics and without feeling like everyone's trying to outedge each other? The hornyposting is the worst too. It really does feel like they're trying to imitate lolicons for some reason.
>tfw you're too normal for the freaks and too freaky for the normals No.7632
I kinda feel ashamed by what I like. What I enjoy is deemed troonbait regardless how much different it is from ugly TIMs in school girl wear. Not Like I blame these people, Troons are a repulsive lot but I wished my love of GNC semes/ukes wasn't tied to these people. Apologizes if it isn't super venty, just wanted to air out my grievances.
No.7633
>>7629I completely agree. My kinks aren't that bad, but I do like rape and incest. It's because people value being perceived a certain way more than the content itself. Self-identified proshippers are almost always TIFs obsessed with self-inserting into a trooned-iut character getting raped. My tinfoil is that gender people have weak identities to begin with, so they have to always have to put on performance around others. They can't just create content. They have to be the biggest baddest most offensive proshipper radqueer
No.7634
>>7631>>7633Honestly, this is why I never mention my fetishes in certain circles. I don't even like rape nor incest but some of the stuff I do like is often too weird or too analogous to certain folks of the TQA+ gang to mention outloud. But If I had to choose, I find I'm the most happy in circles where being an unhinged werido is normal. Sure, you still have moids calling you faggot for liking BL but they ain't doxxing you over that or forcing you to troon to regain your purity.
Somedays I wish there was a online group where I can be myself with other weird girls. No nsfw bans, no moralfagging, no shaming (within reason), just unbridled vibes.
No.7635
>>7622There's a lot of trans people in Thailand
No.7638
>>7634Same. You cannot ever discuss anything freely if the people around you take fiction too seriously it doesn't matter what. I don't like/care about shota, gang bang or futa, but you either be cool with everything or get never ending infighting because everybody likes different things.
As long as people tag, post their stuff into the appropriate threads or channels and don't pretend that the character they like was canonically trans or cuntboy I am fine. The only good discords I ever found were places that declared to be openly degenerate. They aren't even extreme IMO (most common dark tropes are dubcon and incest), but the members don't try to bring politics into fiction or believe to be better than others for shipping the "right" thing which is nice.
>>7635I also notice it with Chinese but the reasons and vibes are different. Thai mostly draw cuntboy IMO, but leave the male role otherwise, Chinese on the other hand have an obsession with actually forcing one of the guys into the female role even if it's 100% ooc. But that might be different in other fandoms.
No.7640
>>7631>join in on the proud profic parade>realize they're being obnoxious and weird about it far too late>it's mostly minorsMan I'm not even that much off the deep end. It's like they pick the edgiest most uncomfortable topics to claim they goon to like dead baby jokes in 2006. Performative, annoying. Even going out of their way to shame antis instead of simply blocking
>>7630The Disney thing is the most important to keep in mind, I think. I formed a manga club at my elementary school and we needed adult supervision. So I worked with him to learn how to draw comics. Key word here, comics. I was 10-11 or so, and all he had on hand were western comics, and at the time, How to draw Manga books were all we had as well. There was no other reference point for learning how to draw the way they learn in Japan/China/Korea especially when internet wasn't as resource abundant as it is now
No.7644
>>7638>You cannot ever discuss anything freely if the people around you take fiction too seriously it doesn't matter what.My silly jekyll and hyde story will never see the light of day because the mc literally becomes a man that murders scrotes through effeminate charms kek. The tifs will think I see them as violent murderapes when it was just a self indulgent gooner story…But anyway, they're probably a bunch of speds who can't divide reality from make believe. It doesn't exist yet fictional characters are given the same treatment as real people.
No.7647
>>7631A lot of profic spaces are just edge for the sake of edge. It's either that or the same discourse accounts that talk about the same topics over and over. I hate how fandom has become because no one on either side really knows how to be creative anymore, it's all about points scoring and arguing now.
No.7650
>>7647NTA but I blame almost every annoyance in fandoms on the death of creativity.
If someone wants to create but can't because they have the imagination of a sack of potatoes then they might resort to genderbending, edgy shit, bland and flat coffee shop AU shit that bores even its own author or character with the costume of x or from historical period y. The last one is not bad per se but oh how fucking tired I am of it since it's everything I see coming from westerners in my fandoms.
I cannot fathom how people can be that devoid of ideas because it even happens in series and settings with a shitton of potential and endless possibilities. And yet all you see is genderbending and "character standing around, but wearing some stupid shit from a live action I recently watched".
No.7653
>>7650Why is it always coffee shop AUs? I wouldn't mind if it was a biting critique of wagie culture but it's feel good cozy drivel.
No.7656
>>7655I miss that type of fanfic. Now everything's that headcanon readerinsert slop.
No.7657
>>7655Yes this is what I mean!
I see many fujos (including myself) complaining about short-lived fandoms that disperse the second the series or pairing stops getting new canon content and I am sure it's less about ADHD or having more series to watch/read but creativity.
Back in the old days a fandom could last a decade after the series ended and you would still get new fan-created developments, What-IF routes, future stories, true AUs and a ton of other things.
The canon was just the big bang that gave birth to a new world that fans filled with life afterwards. I am not sure why this is largely gone now. Back when I was into Mass Effect fans wrote whole epics about the post-game events or backstories of characters before the story took place. Two friends I had cross-referenced each others fics and created a whole life story of two characters together. In the end they had like 60 fics or more and I was hyped everytime one of them would release a new hint or short-story to learn more about the events in their life I was still in the dark about. ALL of this without resorting to true SoL. It always implemented their special OPs missions, the military or their private and mental issues in a way.
This is just an example. Those two characters weren't even mains. One of them had two scenes before he died right at the start of the game.
No.7663
>>7657>Back in the old days a fandom could last a decade after the series ended and you would still get new fan-created developments, What-IF routes, future stories, true AUs and a ton of other things. To be fair this is still true for TV shows especially. Stuff like Naruto, Harry Potter, and Star Trek are still getting massive stories to this day. A big factor is probably length of a series people in most cases aren't going to be interested in a 12 episode seasonal show long enough to start playing with the canon, whereas with those above examples there are seasons and it's stretched out over multiple years so people's interest is maintained and creativity is more likely to spark.
No.7666
>>7657I sometimes wonder what it is about Undertale that made people go so wild with alternate universes in a way I don't really see these days. Maybe the game's aesthetic and humor just attracted that sort of autism and I guess the game's structure lets you imagine it too with the alternate paths.
No.7667
>>7666Undertale had in-universe multiple timelines, deathloops, and like you said alternate paths. So basically every AU you'd make is canon in some version of the game, some much more compliant than other's of course. It's the perfect scenario for a playground.
Horrortale and Disbelief Papyrus are the only two good ones for the record.
No.7668
>>7663I think those fanbases only stay alive because of their classic status. New popular shonen fandoms die the millisecond that the manga ends, like KnY and JJK (although both were nowhere near as long as Naruto)
No.7672
>>7663Yeah but only because these series are old. The fanbases working for them were the classic kind that still created things and even if a new fan joined they will find an abundance of fanworks and AUs and millions of ideas so they might get inspired or at least have enough to read and look at.
I wasn't thinking of seasonal shows but manga that run for 5-10 years with anime adaption. It's all the same. Everything released after 2015 or so doesn't get lasting fanbases anymore and I am fucked because I never liked Naruto, HP or HxH.
No.7673
>>7666>>7667Sorry for same fagging, but Undertale was released in 2015 which further convinces me that fanbases turned to shit afterwards.
I still witnessed smaller ones being creative as hell around 2016 but it genuinely stopped around 2017+.
The length isn't necessarily relevant, Madoka got one of the liveliest fanbases ever and it was just 12 episodes. The Haruhi anime triggered a boom even though it was short. So did K-ON and many others had long lived fanbases and even the longer series like TTGL were just two cours.
No I legit believe it's social media, unironically. When I come up with cool ideas for my ships it never happens while I am watching or reading something, it happens when I daydream while pacing through my room, when I lie in bed or be on my way to work.
But most people I observe are now spending every single minute of their free time when they're alone with the damn phone. Why sitting there and daydreaming when you can use the time to scroll through the virtual shithole you're addicted to? It's this I think. I heard many even take the phones to bed and scroll before falling asleep. There is no time to let the imagination run wild and ponder of something.
No.7674
>>7663Yes, but these are all series that are older and were popular decades ago. There's nothing that came out in the last twenty years that can sustain a big enough long term fandom that would last decades to come. Everything is too flavor of the month for that.
No.7676
>>7674Boku no Hero though…
I can't think of a non-Jump example but I'm sure it's out there. :p
No.7677
>>7674Light novels don't seem to have that problem imo, but they take a long time to to read and filter most out .
No.7678
>>7674,
>that would last decades to comeWell those decades to come have not come yet, so how can you really tell for sure?
But also it seems there's plenty of big fandoms, not necessarily shows though. BTS, Genshin. Demon Slayer has seemed to sustain popularity. I still see lots of fan art/chatter about madoka magica. Mob Psycho anime is coming up on 10 years and it still gets plenty of love
But there rarely is a big show anymore, people have very fragmented interest now, so even if people love them into eternity, it's probably not going to ever be in your face as Harry Potter, or Star Trek ever was. And even then, of course nothing recent is going to be counted in the canon of "long lasting fandom" because they haven't got the chance to yet
No.7679
>>7633Yeah I like stuff that was very run of the mill back in the day like dubcon/noncon, age gaps, size difference, drugging, coercion, rough sex and so forth, stuff people wouldn't look twice at 15 years ago because people kinda figured that was just fiction and didn't take it so seriously and above all it was all done in a very safe environment i.e. a community filled with women, not some shady mixed sex discord server. I feel like despite all this hypervigilance more and more kids still end up being exploited and it's NEVER due to fujoshit.
No.7680
>>7679>despite all this hypervigilance more and more kids still end up being exploited and it's NEVER due to fujoshit.I think it's because kids right now are made hyperaware of predators but without any healthy guidelines on how to recognize, avoid and report said predators. I see dozens of viral posts worrying or joking about predators but none about how to spot them and what to do when you run into one. That's how you get children who try to "out" pedos by contacting them personally.
Also, it's easier to think you've got the situation under control if you call out openly weird fujos instead of getting to the bottom of online grooming operations. And in general people still don't like to openly admit it's mostly a certain sex that overwhelmingly does this shit.
No.7681
>>7680To be honest I block everybody that mentions grooming I swear I hate that shit. Like I hate kids too but it's a fucking fan space where you talk to people from another continent. What can a person even do? Even if a pedo exists that asks for pics if a kid was so dumb to send them the kid isn't normal in their head, who the fuck does this?
Anyway I don't care. Nobody ever made us "aware" of anything when we used the internet in the 00s an nothing ever happened.
I don't believe for a second that there is a single fandom member who cares about kids. The "sex = evil" meme is just used to cancel artists that draw pairings they don't like.
No.7682
>>7679Same, I wish we could return to having gatekept fandom spaces without kids everywhere. I want to interact with other WOMEN not 13yos
No.7684
>>7668>although both were nowhere near as long as NarutoAnd that's a good thing. If they were released a decade or two earlier they would have an active fanbase even now. It's just how trends work now are different from before in general. Some shorter anime and manga that were released way earlier still have very active fanbases, like YYH or NGE.
No.7685
>>7682I legit think that 70% of the annoyances in fandoms would vanish if we could shadowban everybody younger than 19. 95% if everybody younger than 24 was gone too. A lot of annoying babies are in their early 20s despite acting like 8.
No.7687
>>7683God me too. Drawing is so much fun and I have so many ideas but doing the fine-tuning is more work and takes longer = less fun. So I have like 100 WIPs and only finish maybe one pic per week and create 15 new WIPs in the meantime.
No.7688
>>7685Just block them, like all this complaining but if someone isn't drawing art or contributing to the space in some way just remove them from your view. Arguing with children is the least productive use of your time.
No.7689
>>7684Unpopular opinion here but as a KnY fan I actually wish it had been longer. I think some of the characters really needed more time to breathe and be built up and they needed to give more focus to demon slayers who weren't Pillars or related to them. They could have introduced character backstories piece by piece in a more natural way instead of dumping them all in one flashback. They could have done more 'episodic' cases before devolving into a boss rush. It didn't need to be 700 chapters but… maybe more like an extra hundred.
No.7690
>>7688I agree, but that is A LOT of blocking. It ends up paperwork in spirit.
Some people like paperwork. I would rather have the ability to block anyone with 14-17 in their profiles even if it means blocking JP artists with numbers as names. Because whenever a stupid opinion shows up when I try a general search, it's from someone with a stupid sparkling/emoji username and |15|
No.7691
>>7683Literally me right now. I was working on a fic that I’ve been working on for a while now and suddenly got a plot bunny and sorta lost motivation to work on the first fic. And that’s not even factoring in that I have another fic I was working on prior to the first one. It’s like a never ending cycle of WIPs.
No.7692
>>7690Bluesky seems good for this, there are public blocklists for antis and I'm not sure if there is one for minors either, but maybe. At least some of the work on blocking people is saved for you.
No.7693
>>7690I don't even need to block. The algorithm only shows you what you "like" (not sure about phones but I only use the browser version) and the artists I follow like the same shit I like so they won't retweet tranny fanart or anything.
Never encountered the problems other fujos talk about despite never blocking anybody.
No.7694
>>7693I'm not sure if this is a site specific phenomena but I've found even if I curate who works I want to see on my feed I'll get something else really left field because of something else the people I follow liked, or just because they followed certain people I get their content showing up. Then I have to go on a goose chase to find the offending accounts and block them.
This is how I learned someone I followed was liking tranny Sonic yaoi even though they never drew that themselves kek
>>7692A list of minors might get weaponized by creeps but it would also be really nice to just get rid of them from ever appearing.
>>7673> I heard many even take the phones to bed and scroll before falling asleep.Please don't attack me like this.
No.7695
>>7694>I'll get something else really left field because of something else the people I follow likedYes I forgot to mention this, this could happen. I am currently lucky that I basically only follow Japanese who don't seem to interact much with posts outside of the fandom sphere and many fandom-specific side-accounts.
I recently followed ONE (1) single English speaking account and suddenly got a bunch of bitch content (sry but no idea how else to call it), unfunny memes and tiktok drama into my "for you" timeline after the obligatory fandom fanart dump so I unfollowed her again lol
This can be annoying. Same shit happened on another account of mine. Followed 1k+ accounts, 0 rightwing content. Then I add one dude and suddenly 30% of the shit is this. Just because of one, vs 1000+. It was gone again when I unfollowed.
But thanks to this you notice how certain topics are favored by the algorithm. Most people don't curate their space at all and just blindly follow a billion crappy accounts that follow other crappy accounts so no idea what they see. For hobby related things I WANT to be in a bubble.
No.7698
My fandoms don't appear to have moved to bluesky yet, there's hundreds of people on twitter but I can barely find anyone on the other side. On twitter they even have a fanart tag that the Japanese and Korean artists use, even for shipping art now and then, but I tried it on bluesky and it didn't even exist yet. There's a handful of posts from last year, then months long gaps. That and the lack of animation support kills my motivation to move properly.
>>7673Having my phone in bed is my number 1 lifehack for writing fic I procrastinated on all evening. ;__;
No.7699
>>7698>Having my phone in bed is my number 1 lifehack for writing fic I procrastinated on all evening. ;__;Impressive, I've only tried writing a single fic on my phone when I was inbetween laptops and it was such an uncomfortable writing experience I've never done it since. My thumbs are just too uncoordinated and prone to typos. If their dictation ever got better it might be nice to lie in bed and brainstorm a rough draft.
No.7706
>>7678Well Genshin isn't finished yet, and in the West, at least, Demon Slayer dropped off. I think algorithm based social media and people having no imagination now is why series can't thrive. Fujos now need ships to be canon. Harry Potter, Naruto and even yaoi powerhouse video game fandom Final Fantasy 7 were actually very straight. Everyone got straight married and you knew they were never going to even imply something gay was canon, but fujos saw some ingredients and created lasting shipo bases. Today's fujos can't do that. There's too many people needing ships to be canon or to be "implied" canon for them to ignore things like shounen editorial mandated straight marriages. Nothing can last because producing fan work isn't about a community of like-minded fans who don't need canon as a requirement anymore. It's about getting clout and fame. Drawing for an "old" ship gets people made fun of on twitter. Things are considered old just for being five years old, there's no way these zoomers would be able to appreciate fandoms that were able to keep themselves going for twenty years and counting.
>>7685Fandom would be better if we could get off twitter and sites like twitter where anyone can interact with you and send a mob on your page, or where you have to see teenagers going viral for their takes. Even people older than 24 aren't better now. A lot of them pull the same purity garbage or they like to talk about how being a fujo is misogyny. Age has nothing to do with it when people are raised on twitter and tiktok, and there's more twenty years olds acting like teenagers since post pandemic they only know nothing but twitter for fandom.
No.7710
>>7706>here's no way these zoomers would be able to appreciate fandoms that were able to keep themselves going for twenty years and countingI can't wait until zoomers have enough life experience to say this about the gen after them and we can pretend like "actually zoomers were the last good gen before gen 000, who can't even hold their attention enough to watch 1/100 of an episode of anime" or some shit lol
No.7711
I honestly want to know why men keep lamenting the loss of platonic male relationships despite numerous shonens and male aimed media still doing it. Sure it seems more gay now but it's not as extinct as they hoped.
No.7712
>>7711They aren't. They just hate homo shipping. That's it.
If you dress it up as valuing real men's feewings you can get away with pushing everyone out of the playground! Really look at how selectively they complain, and how it's never about men/women or women/women being platonic. Because yuri isn't gay of course
No.7713
>>7710>"actually zoomers were the last good gen before gen 000, who can't even hold their attention enough to watch 1/100 of an episode of anime" or some shit lolI do think zoomers are the last gen to have the potential to dodge a bit of the "gen z and younger brain damage" by having a millennial sibling or older online friend for some guidance. I know for a fact I have "saved" a few just as a voice in their computer through our MMO acquaintance.
>>7711They are just mad nobody is making stuff for them in fandom spaces. They want the fanon stuff tailored for their tastes in addition to canon but they will never come out and say it. They could make it themselves, but non-autistic men do not do that kind of thing for free.
No.7714
>>7713And those younger kids will have millennial parents and aunts and uncles to help guide them. It's really funny though the way you are positioning millennials when the entirety of the 2010s were spent shitting on them for being idiot softies that only now how to blog. It's beautiful how time is a flat circle and that millennials are also becoming old men that yell at clouds
No.7715
>>7714I should have been more specific and said "brain damage online". There are plenty of normalfag millennials who are unaware of what being on the modern internet will do to a kid's brain. Most of the tablet children I see IRL have millennial-looking parents.
No.7716
>>7715Regardless though those children still have the same potential you say gen z has because they can also have millennial older relatives or older online friends for guidance
No.7717
>>7716Millennials online do not interact with gen alpha they way they can and do with gen Z. There is no incidental overlap on places like Twitter and Tumblr, which are analogous to the BBS and Usenet baton pass between online boomers/gen X and millennials. You can see this at play in fandom spaces, where there is little-to-no millennial presence in fandom tiktok, despite tiktok currently being the largest fandom gathering point. The online generational guidance chain breaks with the introduction of apps over free exploration, which is why you have an annoying amount of gen Z still mired in "anti" rhetoric years after they should have grown out of it.
No.7718
>>7717because gen alpha are all 7 years who will not gain the desire to maintain an account for another 5 years lol, of course 30 year olds aren't talking to literal children online, lmao? But once they're old enough to main real conversation I'm sure they will
But regardless much of the anti rhetoric started on tumblr to begin with, where stuff like "SU critical" blogs existed. It's def not tiktok that created these issues, and it's not like they didn't get it from no where. They're piggybacking off of the now 30 year old millennials who had the gull to run "yourfaveisproblematic" when they were also retarded teenagers
No.7722
>>7698Yeah I only use bsky because three Japanese artist I follow are using it to post most of their raunchy headcanon text posts there and sketches and I do the same. bsky for sketches and WIPs, twitter for the real art.
For my other fandom it's like 30% artists on bsky, 70% on twitter and the 70% are the good ones, only the crappy western artists moved so I ignore it completely. I swear the shittier the art is the more convinced they are that someone will steal it or feed that shit into AI.
I also assume that nobody with enough followers wants to move when bsky lacks the Asian fans. I have 1k+ followers on twitter and follow like 2k. Not abandoning this for the 300 spergs on bsky.
No.7726
>>7711>>7712Most male fans always see other fandoms as rivals so they either shit on fujo art or try to keep the narrative up that fujos "lost" even if we win.
I am in a fandom with lots of male characters of all types and only one of them is a "draw a girl, call it a boy" and of course it's his fans that are annoying as shit and obviously male. They always emphasise how het he is, how they do not ship him because shipping is cringe and they constantly try to "win" against dirty fujos even though 95% of the fanart for the series is about the other dudes that fujos are shipping. They even count the posts in threads for the newest episodes and claim fans weren't interested in an episode with no trap because it has 20 posts less than a thread with trap screentime or claim two characters fujos ship broke up just because they fought each other once.
Otaku are obsessed with making it look like everything pandered to them and that a series can only be successful if it panders their taste in particular, that fujos are just a loud minority and they always pretend that everybody secretly hated male characters that fujos like and that series should be filled by pantyshots, traps and other coomer shit. It's the "go woke, get broke" meme in the anime fandom.
No.7727
>>7717This. The generations are separated by apps for audio-visual engagement VS classic fandom places and text-dominated spaces more suited for the browser version.
I almost never meet fans younger than 22 anywhere because they're stuck on tiktok and instagram which are places I avoid like the plague. Add to that that the phone generations are less technologically literate than millennials, gen x and even many boomers and you get tons of people who cannot even post on certain places because they don't understand how to use them or are alienated by them.
Another factor is the sensitivity that most of these people have. I asked a bunch of fujos in their early 20s why they wouldn't post on image boards with comfy threads since even 4chan has them if your favorite series doesn't attract spergs. But they just scream because "4chan is ebil". They could participate in a super chill discussion and would be shocked and quit if they saw a single harmless post saying "retard" since it's offensive.
No.7728
>>7727I'm in my mid-30's, used imageboards from the early 00's to mid '10s and stopped because the amount of unironic nazis, pedophiles and people wishing death on women got so disgusting I couldn't stomach it anymore. I can't blame them for not wanting to get on 4chan.
No.7729
>>7727I've had this feeling for a while in a negative and positive sense. I still post on 4chan regularily, even have my fair share of doing falseflagging or shitposting for the sake of it but that's because I used 4chan for such a long part of my life that it's just the usual for me.
Depending on the media, be it an anime or game, you know full well that whether fujos are approved depends on a coinflip. You won't get the type of lengthy, spergy discussion about a character with some proper discussion on 4chan, at least not always. You'll get called a tranny most of the time whenever you post about a male character.
I've definitely seen some fujos that *try* get on 4chan, try to get in on the discussion or posting but eventually quickly leave. They don't leave for here, either. They leave for their friends on discord or twitter. I imagine that, despite anons saying otherwise, majority of people do this now. The amount of people are are EXCLUSIVELY imageboard-only are very few and if you are one of those I think you're likely pushing 40 and going insane. Even if you used female centered boards like lolcow, there's only so much 'I fucking hate everything and everyone' you can stomach daily
No.7730
>>7729Yeah everything got annoyingly negative and turf war'ish since the mid 10s. I can't leave 4chan either since I want to discuss my series and they usually have no discords. But now it's just DEAD. And if the series has just one character that panders to otaku you will get one of the console war spergs that shits up the thread in an attempt to control the discussion and spams the same coomer memes to make it look like the majority agreed with him.
Sadly social media is shit especially tiktok and IG which is what most casuals flock to. Twitter is fine IMO if you follow the right people that post and "like" the right things, but chances are high that said people are Japanese so you're fucked regardless unless you speak it fluently. Leaves discords.
Discords are also fucked in my experience, assuming your favorite pairing/series even has one. In the end it's always the same five people posting no matter how big discord is and three of those people will most likely ALSO be turf war fags that don't accept other ships or interpretations.
I also made the experience that discord admins are usually prone to act like little shits and care about retweet numbers. I had to leave my last discord because the admin wouldn't shut up about being depressed for getting no retweets for her art unlike me, so she came up with excuses for why I cannot post my art there.
I mean I am sorry but what I can I do about it? I won't allow guilt tripping anymore. I enjoy drawing and writing so I rather sacrifice the discord than my hobby. It's all cursed. Not even talking about discords filled with underaged and trannies.
No.7731
>>7729I use 4chan pretty regularly as of late, but I mostly use it for drawing peoples husbandos. They're all pretty nice people and I enjoy the passion. Tried to talk in a thread about a female mangaka I liked who drew het hentai and got called a tranny. They're so fucking annoying. But regardless I still stick around because of the chill things like the aforementioned husbando drawing. But there's only so much maximum abrasiveness I tolerate, and most of the threads there are not worth reading or responding to
No.7733
>>7731Pure sausage fest anime/manga, gay series or series with artstyles that turn coomers off are also always nice and free of spergs. Like series like Revenger, Odd Taxi, High Card, Bravern and such. Mature women are also fine since every anime character that looks like an actual adult person is too old for coomers. I am thinking of watching Trillion Game too it looks like the type of series that has no idiots either.
No.7734
>>7729>Even if you used female centered boards like lolcow, there's only so much 'I fucking hate everything and everyone' you can stomach dailyI find this a lot more bearable than whatever is going on on 4chan. At least on lolcow you can easily ignore the anons who just barge into threads of manga, series, movies, games, books, etc. they don't care about or irrationally hate because they're so obvious and because other anons will talk about these topics regardless so there will be a real conversation at the end of the day. There are containment threads for specific franchises or for the fujo/antifujo bullshit going on as well. The real issue for me is how often the fujo/antifujo arguments are still brought up in threads where it's off-topic. 4chan is just pure cancer in comparison. I didn't grow up with it but checked it out from time to time to find video game leaks before 2016 and after 2016 and it's like night and day.
No.7735
>>7734>The real issue for me is how often the fujo/antifujo arguments are still brought up in threads where it's off-topicNTAYRT but this happens so often that I'm convinced it's a couple baiters bringing it up in other threads and anons on there are retarded and can't resist replying. The "ftm in one month" anon is a troll and posts in a very recognizable manner but people still reply to her even after she reveals herself. Anons on there just enjoy shitflinging for the sake of it even if it derails the thread.
No.7736
>>7735I hate how anons always take the bait regardless of the topic. They'll see an obvious man posting and instead of not feeding the troll and just reporting the posts they're totally derail interesting threads. I usually like lc a lot but anons have no self control.
No.7737
>>7735That's my problem with LC as well and the reason I started going there less. I'll see an interesting thread and decide to check it out only to realize most of the replies are people replying to obvious derail attempts. I think I have yet to see a thread where anons are smart enough not to take the bait, and it always results in posts and replies that are actually relevant to the topic at hand getting ignored in favor of continuing whatever infight is going on at the time.
No.7738
>>7735>NTAYRT but this happens so often that I'm convinced it's a couple baiters bringing it uI genuinely believe that the same is true on 4chan. At least since 2018 or so when the biggest crowd of /pol/fags had left. I swear it's the same preferences, paranoias and the same characteristics and wording I am sure that 90% of the hate posting and thread derailment on /a/ is done by the same handful of people. It's like how you recognize pantsu shizo in every thread. These people are too autistic and retarded to change their writing style and most of them reek of edgy 14 year olds.
A very common shit I see are single anons pretending fujos were seething about a series when this isn't the case in order to make fujos look retarded and emotional. Like everytime a male character talks to a woman, another one breaks up with his male implied love interest or a fan favorite loses a fight you have at least one post per thread claiming that the ones criticizing the series were le ebil fujos that were fuming after reading the latest chapter, even if the criticism has nothing to do with ships and the actual fujos are still drawing fanart of their ships and having fun.
>>7736I am not sure if LC is better by now but it was nothing but hateful commentaries when I was there and I was attacked for being either a "moid" or "pickme" for the most harmless posts and the discussions related to anime/games were dead as fuck which was the main thing I care about.
No.7744
>>7738>make fujos look retarded and emotionalI see this on other boards aside from /a/ too. Maybe it is just the same few anons we're seeing or there are just that many retards schizophrenically conjuring fujos' reactions in their heads kek.
>>7737They'll still reply to the bait even after it gets red texted for baiting. Nonnas are just addicted to fighting.
No.7746
My friend brought up a good point yesterday in that I shouldn't feel bad for shounen fujos when they're upset that their ships don't become canon because they chose to eat the slop that comes out and are the reason that we don't get fujobait.
No.7748
>>7738There's a straight shota troll on the board right now and nonnas are replying instead of ignoring and reporting.
It's a phenomenon I don't understand. Can't be autism, autists generally see through disingenuity.
No.7749
>>7738>>7744>or there are just that many retards schizophrenically conjuring fujos' reactions in their heads kekOne of the funnier cases I witnessed was an anon pretending that fujos were seething over a femboy being confirmed as straight in a series. He explained every harmless shit as fujo reaction to this. Some anons disliking plot developments concerning different characters and plot points? Fujos seething. Less engagement? Fujos seething and quitting the series in droves, you get the idea.
The funny part is that fujos care about every character but the femboy. Femboy fags were obviously male and they never shipped him with other males, male otaku lust for characters, they don't ship like fujos. It's such hard projectin I swear. I have seen anons claiming fujos were mad about Alfonso from Fate not being confirmed obviously gay either when Alfonso is such an obvious fan favorite among male trapfags, not women.
No.7751
>>7731>Tried to talk in a thread about a female mangaka I liked who drew het hentai and got called a tranny. They're so fucking annoying. But regardless I still stick around because of the chill things like the aforementioned husbando drawing.I think I was in that very same board and saw your posts in particular. Don't take it too seriously, for your own sake. That board has near round the clock gay ops and both the men and (real) women on that board are increasingly overzealous and paranoid. Even if it's for a good reason don't let it get to your head too much.
No.7752
>>7736>>7737>>7738This is why the weekly homothreads on /a/ are such a quality coinflip too. Some people either can't resist replying to trolls or it's a schizo self-replying.
No.7754
I wish there were more bl games that aren't just visual novels and gachaslop.
No.7765
>>7754When I found out about Paradiso guardian I thought it was great that there's a gay metroidvania now but unfortunately the character designs really turned me off.
No.7804
It's a first world problem and all, but I wish that more visual novels were compatible with Mac OS devices. Maybe it's for the best, though. The blvn community on Twitter is already insufferable because they play Slow Damage and call themselves yaoi experts because of it KEK
No.7805
>best boy is arrogant
>prideful as fuck
>laughing at others
>but also very literate and smart
>super serious and conservative on the outside but loud and crazy with his best friend
>muscular
>anger fits
>generally funny
>fandom turns him into skinny, whiny cuntboy or wallflower
>no fanart besides like that of like five people ever refers to his many varied other traits
Even Japan is infected by this, it's all cursed.
No.7820
>there was a shota thread on /a/ some hours ago
>it was mostly filled with hidden pseudo unironic pedos
>always get this feeling when I can tell someone is a very obvious male shotacon
god damn it, I can't talk to fujo shotacons nowadays because they usually are trannies or 'I use it to cope with my rape trauma' type or both and all male shotacons say shit that is very borderline suspiciously pedo
No.7821
>>7820So THIS is why they left the nigewaka thread in peace this time so that fujos took over?
Wish they would do this every week lel Because I swear I hate these types of shotacons and I am almost sure that all of them are male. There are female shota fans in the nigewaka threads as well sometimes but they just ship their shota in peace and are chill. Also, the male ones either give off genuine pedo vibes or they're are trans or about to turn into it and self-insert into the shota so they will make it about them or make cringe greenposts.
No.7825
Seeing all the yuri anime getting greenlit and announced for this year while there's still barely any BL or even fujo friendly catered shows anymore. But then we still have to listen to himejoshi be awful to fujos and say it's justified because of fanfiction. Who gives a fuck about fanfiction when they're getting the canon?
No.7829
>>7825And they won't even enjoy it. They'll complain about everything they get.
No.7830
>>7825I thought the same when I saw the like fifth actual yuri trailer within two weeks or so. I don't even need actual BL I am super happy with fujo adjacent yakuza/samurai/whatever series as long as they aren't boring seasonal sports anime or SoL. But nah, we don't even get gay-coded villains or surprise Kaworus anymore.
No.7831
I always wonder, why do joseimuke canons just not attract that much Western fanfic or art? They had way more fujo bait but people prefer to stick to shounen that doesn't even pander anymore. Why?
No.7832
>>7831Some mix of:
>not fotm/mainstream/has a small fanbase>shounen having wider appeal and easier to get into>uninterested in vidya>most jsmk have shitty anime adaptations>not interested in being explicitly pandered to>less of a sandbox to play with No.7834
>>7832>not interested in being explicitly pandered to>less of a sandbox to play withFor me it's definitely these two. Joseimuke just seems like idolshit and browser/mobileshit with irritatingly piecemeal and/or shallow stories. Getting into them feels like homework instead of playing a game (or even reading a VN).
Back in the day part of the beauty of being in a JRPG fandom was that it was a one-and-done (or you got a direct sequel pretty quick because of the faster dev cycles) and you usually didn't have to worry about EoS or some lore drop 10 years later that would shatter your perception of blorbo or the series as a whole (I follow a girl who is into Enstars and she was mad over something somewhat recently, some kind of retcon?). Doesn't seem like it's worth the investment even if I do find something appealing.
No.7839
>>7832That's the problem. Fotm/mainstream anime will never be friendly to fujos anymore. And joseimuke isn't as popular for fandoms even though they're the only games that won't abandon the audience to chase incel dollar. It's the double edged sword of more fujobait canons never being popular so people have to settle for scraps from shounen or omni gachas.
No.7840
>>7839>they're the only games that won't abandon the audience to chase incel dollar.Not for a lack of trying, though. Just look at Broccoli, Utapri prints money and yet they keep trying to make girl bands that nobody cares about.
No.7864
I once argued with what was probably some creepy dude on /a/ who seriously tried to claim that a character being turned into a doll wasn’t losing their agency.
They literally said this because the character could express some emotion in intense moments, so I am thinking do they also think a character being sort of locked out of their bodies, yet being able to feel everything, is not loss of agency? Do they think a person loses agency only when they are unconscious or when incapable of expressing emotions?Even if the character manages to express themselves or momentarily exert some influence through sheer willpower, the fact remains that their ability to act has been forcibly taken away. Being trapped and also unable to move or act while still being fully aware is the definition of losing agency, like what happened in Mouthwash to Curly. I am genuinely disturbed by the way some men think. All to defend a badly written waifu.
No.7877
>>7831Because they're boring. I usually don't get into a series for yaoi, I ship and make fanworks because I already enjoy the series and it scratches my brain. If I want canon BL I'd rather just read original BL works. Also
>>7834 No.7879
Today I was reminded again of how Yuri on ice had to die but the anime industry is still cranking out countless 'reincarnated in another world kicked out of the hero's party weakest skill' slop.
No.7880
>>7879That YoI brought MAPPA into the limelight only for it to be in production hell and canned makes it even more depressing. I'm surprised it didn't even get a manga adaptation; just the TV series and 2 minute special. If Kyoani got their hands on YoI they would've milked it dry like Free.
No.7881
>>7832>shounen having wider appeal and easier to get into>most jsmk have shitty anime adaptations>less of a sandbox to play withMy main issues with a lot of joseimuke. The guys also tend to be extremely boring and one note because they're made for Japanese yumes who only want a good looking, generic husbando to fawn over so there's barely any interesting chemistry between the characters and a plot being entirely about how these two end up together instead of bigger stakes and a wider world just doesn't do it for me.
>>7879Whenever I'm reminded of how it's all thanks to Yuri on Ice that Mappa got all their money making projects yet they thanked the creators by curbing the movie everyone wanted because they didn't want to pay out royalties to the property's stakeholders I seethe and mald uncontrollably. Fuck the anime industry, for real.
No.7882
>>7877It's just too bad because the series that generate the most hype are always ones that kill off the gay guy if one even exists or you have to deal with a lot of endgame het and annoying people. It's not fun having to listen to everyone complaining about fujos and the canon itself working against you.
No.7883
>>7832Isn't it
more of a sandbox if you're given a setting and characters without a strict set of plot events? I've done a bunch of Tourabu AUs and saniwa OC because while the historical events that affect each character are set in stone, you can fuck around pairing up who you like and deciding who faces their demons this week or how they rest and recover from that.
Agreed so much on the anime adaptations though. With western fandom an anime is the best bet to get anyone to even glance at a series, they won't try a game, manga, or audio drama, no matter how accessible they are. You might get some cute SoL, but that's worthless to people who don't already know the characters and concept. The proper angst plots with reasonable writing tend to get thrown into 2.5D adaptations instead, and jesus christ are those a hard sell, between the pricetag and the secret clubs and the lack of subtitles and the reruns with only a slightly different name but oh you have to see this one because the sequel was based on the rerun's small changes to the cast instead of the original production, fuck. And it's never numbered so you need those production years from the publication dates. PS. you must show proof of purchase in DMs to download this file even though I made a big post claiming to have the files that everyone links to like it's there. :)
It's no wonder people look at what fandoms I'm in and go "geez, you like that shit? It doesn't even have a story." You have to be sold on it before you can even see what it has to offer.
No.7884
>>7883>Isn't it more of a sandbox if you're given a setting and characters without a strict set of plot eventsThink Harry Potter: Drarry and Wolfstar have almost nothing in canon, but the plot being established allows for people to use the events as a springboard. A lot of shippers mainly want to expand on the characters and relationship, not do the world building themselves. If the plot is fully written all you need to do is find an interesting part in the story to diverge from and allows you to imagine how characters will get together at different points in the story with varying circumstances and states the character is in.
No.7887
>>7883Joseimuke franchises are the only safe ones where you won't get endgame het romances or have to deal with people screaming at you for not writing any girls. Ideal for fujoshi, but many western ones won't even bother because it has to have an anime, and not only that but the anime should be good, and most joseimuke anime are terrible and have no budget. The rest are boring as games with shit gameplay, or inaccessible audio dramas, or not even released in the West at all.
>>7884This is why Genshin got so popular for a gacha. I don't think people need ships to really be canon, but just the ability to explore with worldbuilding always makes fandoms explode. And having some form of sorting system and different places to make fans go nuts with fanfics and making OCS, like how Atla has the bending, Genshin having the same elemental system, Harry Potter has the houses, and so on. For something to get huge it needs a sandbox to play in.
No.7903
>>7902My condolences, nona. Hoping you can find an even nicer OTP.
As for the question, sort of? I've outgrown my love for girly ukes based on appearance.
Also, I don't get new shota husbandos. The ones I got as a kid are still cute and moe to me, but I don't see the cute in any new ones. Which leads to me playing P3 Reload and fangirling like a mofo over Ken, and then glossing over the shotabait in whatever I'm watching at the moment.
I can see why. I like boys who are my own age and slightly younger, but as I grew up, this preference has shifted to preferring the 'kouhai' type guy. Shota was definitely 'slightly younger' when I was 15 or so, nowadays, it's not as charming.
No judgement to people who like shota, it's just not my cup of tea anymore.
No.7908
>>7902I don't even ship what initially got me into fanfic anymore (Hiei/Kurama). I do have other ships knocking around from my newbie era that are simply dormant until what I'm in the mood for cycles back to them, so maybe that's what sebaciel will become for you after it has had time to cool off.
>>7906>solid nonconThere's a higher than usual ratio of this in FF7 fandom imo, but the remake has obviously drawn in a lot of minors and ftm headcanons.
>I actually like to talk about the series with other English speaking fans. A lot of posts here and in threads will claim they just look at pictures but that's not my thing.I'm the same way. It sucks you gotta litmus test for so much shit before talking to people these days. I wish fandom would go back to being cringe shit nobody wanted to admit to touching.
No.7909
>>7902I’ve long outgrown my intro ship (Kaito/Len). I still enjoy pictures of them here and there, but I don’t actively read fics or listen to music of them anymore. And while I still have ships that I do go back to from that time, Kaito/Len is one I’ve never returned to.
No.7917
>>7916Don’t worry nonnie, I am one of the rampant moid haters over here that still frequents the site. I like seeing pretty boys get beat up too and actively seek out content where they get tortured, but I understand that it’s not for everyone. I like when I check /ex/ and see someone posted new pics in a thread.
No.7918
>>7916I love pretty boys being beat up and humiliated. Please keep posting about this. I'm serious.
That said, I'm not a huge fan of misandry in fujo spaces. I support the ability of women to be able to do that in spaces where that's acceptable (for example, feminist spaces with a focus on politics), but this is a space where we're allowed to like male characters.
Fandom already has a problem with yuritards shitting on yaoi fandom, and women being told to 'centre women' in their fanworks. I've experienced the 'misandry is acceptable' as an extension of that attitude.
That said, beating cute boys up and humiliating them is something I'm 200% there for, all the time. It's not misandry to me. It's porn.
No.7919
>>7916My preference for ryona, humiliation and forced feminization (separate from trans-washing) comes from just liking dynamics centered to breaking someone down. I don't hate men or male characters, I just enjoy the story that can be told when you hurt them.
That said, I find irl man hating a boring subject because as much of unga bunga monkeys they are, I would prefer to ignore them instead of giving them any kind of attention as I laser on 2D only.
No.7920
>>7916>swear it was much more male-negative and more feminist leaning than it's turning out to be as of now. Because it's annoying to be on a fujo board that is meant to talk about ships and 2D boys get full of lolcowesque MEN ARE OPPRESING ME REEEEEEE screeching that plagues the site and fujochan becoming an echochamber of circlejerking men (even if it's about hate) goes against the site.
No.7921
>>7920i've never seen this type of screeching here, not that you're implying there has ever been, but. at most, i've seen someone briefly mentioning that guys are annoying, or deserve to be mistreated and whatever, but always keeping it pretty brief and somehow linked to BL anyways, like finding hurt men hot or how much better 2D guys are.
what is personally starting to get to my attention though is that i've been seeing more and more posts with this bashing on misandry and worse, even feminism, undercurrent, which personally annoys me because afaik it's a new recent twist on fujochan that idk where is coming from. like people commenting negatively about this attitude even *outside* of this space. it's understandable to not want to bring politics into here, i would hate that too, but that's exactly why i wouldn't want this place to become tradwife central either
No.7922
>>7920I consider "moid" kind of a red flag in that if I were sussing out another fujo for friendship purposes I would probably disengage. I'm critical of male behavior but don't have them actively ruining my personal life so I don't care to go in circles about how they're mostly bad. I don't think it's plaguing the site though, I've been around here for about 3 years and if you peek at some of the older posts I'd say it was more prevalent back then (or more realistically, the 3 or so girls who were frequently posting like that have lost interest and gone back to lolcow).
That being said it's fun to see dudes mald about yaoi in the cringe thread and such. Tangential male presence in fandom falls under meta for me and I do think the petri dish of it all is interesting and worth talking about in appropriate context.
No.7923
>>7916Tbh I personally feel like it's getting lolcow 2.0 vibes. There's a lot of drama, gossip, fanfiction, sexual psychoanalysis and meta discussion.
No.7924
>>7923>fanfictionLike discussion of the fanfiction meta? Honestly I kinda wish more nonnies recommended fanfiction, but I get it's a harder sell than just looking at a piece of fanart. And I think it's nice that all of those topics still link back to fujoism things. Like most gossip, drama, and meta discussion still revolves around fujo stuff.
No.7925
honestly i feel like the crux of the situation here is that there's some strong anti-radical feminism on fujochan rn, and male-hating is very prevalent in radfem spaces, so it gets associated with that.
the reason why there's this growing sentiment on fujochan can be circled back to the fact that radical feminism is very anti-porn, which is interpreted incorrectly by some radfems as the ideology being anti-erotica as a whole, which makes those bad apples lash out against BL too, and which reinforces the idea that radfems are anti-fujo to the fujos that have had more superficial and negative interactions with the movement. basically, it's just fujos being rightfully defensive of their hobbies.
being both a laid-back feminist with some misandry in me, and a diehard, 10+ year fujo, it's a little disheartening to agree to disagree with both sides so often, but oh well everyone is entitled to their opinions. i'm used to being in the middle of crossfires because as a woman who is attracted to both men and other women, i often witness very heated discourse between straight and lesbian fujos, which is a really bizarre and unexplored subset of interner drama that makes my blood boil from both sides lol
No.7926
>>7921When lolcow momentarily died the site was flooded with "where can I talk about how much I hate scrotes" posts with people telling them to fuck off. I remember the "lolcow containment thread" was like that too.
Also, I have never seen posts 'bashing on feminism' unless you mean the anti-yurifag posts which in case I disagree because those "you need to think about yuri and women too" false attempts at feminism are inherently shitting on fujos for not liking women enough.
No.7927
>>7924Eh, it revolves around it, but it's not actually it.
I guess I just want the "this panel has two male characters incredibly close saying how they won't quit each other, I'm seizuring on the floor, I am foaming from the mouth" sort of autism.
No.7928
>>7926tbh i've seen a couple of people shitting on online spaces that are not strictly used for fujoing out due to them having "male hate". idk why one should get pressed over women venting about their bad experiences with men when they are
1 not a man themselves
2 the aforementioned spaces are for miscellaneous topics
3 having bad views or experiences with guys doesn't automatically mean being anti-fujo, although i understand why the association is made
if this antagonism is born out of feeling defensive over being able to enjoy and talk about fujo topics without being policed, i agree with it. i hate when people tell women what they should enjoy, especially sexually. but if i smell other reasons it immediately pisses me off, and i hope this isn't becoming the case on here
No.7929
>>7916I'm straight, I'm in a relationship I also like BL. Feminism is fine, but tbh misandry itself is dumb and not something I want to read about. I also get the intersection of feminism and BL, misandrist ranting don't have any real connection unless it's 3D men being triggered by yaoi or discussions how yaoi is escapism from negative IRL experiences. That's always welcome in appropriate threads.
>recently there has been this faint anti-misandry sentiment on fujochan.Where? I haven't seen it, I've seen anti-yuri sentiment grow but not anti-misandry, mainly because it doesn't seem to come up hardly at all.
No.7930
>>7927i find that type of autism really relatable, and i get what you mean. those posts are really fun. i think it's hard to have that type of discussion with fujos that don't share your pairings though… i dont know if this is just me, but i'm the type of fujo that can only bring herself to fujo out to the max degree for my own ships, and it's not just any m/m pairing that will bring that out of me. hell i even have m/m notps, often the ones that go against my otps lol.
i'm not opposed to seeing those types of gushing posts at all, i'd just probably not join on it unless i like the couple, and if a lot of other fujos feel this way, considering we all have different otps, it'd just turn into a screaming into the void type of deal
No.7931
>>7929>misandry itself is dumbnot really, a lot of women have very good reasons for feeling that way
>not something I want to read aboutreal, i don't think it has much if anything to do with bl and politics shouldn't be on fujochan, unless of it's on OT threads, but i wouldn't want for this place to turn into another discourse pot either if it picks up on them
No.7932
>>7931I get that people do, though personally I never have, but hating an entire group of people blanketly and with no nuance is always going to be dumb. If you don't blanketly hate then it doesn't match my definition of misandry/misogyny/racism/ect. Perhaps we define things differently.
Ragardless I have no issues sharing the site with any fujo! You can be calling for the death of men in the streets, and I'll disagree with you but as long as you're posting about fujo related topics it doesn't matter. Again though I haven't seen any anti-feminist, anti-misandry takes on here so I hope that nonna points out where they are.
No.7933
>>7925Very well-written, thank you, nona!
To add to this, some of us come from places where being a feminist is pushed very, very hard, to the point where we're a bit sick of it. Where I live, it's seen as an easy way to get virtue points, and most of them are fake AF. They do not care about women's rights and tend to focus on excluding non-feminists. Many geek hobbies are this way, and it got to the point where openly 'feminist' = probably a wanker.
I say this as someone who really loves female-only spaces when they relate to my hobbies. I have huge respect for radical feminists, because they actually are focused on doing things to help women on the whole, even when they disagree with them.
But 99% of the time, 'feminists' in my area have been virtue-seeking wankers, and it hasn't made me very tolerant.
No.7934
>>7916Fujochan is a mixed bag of migrants from Lolcow, 4chan and Twitter/Tumblr, so there is a certain conflict of interest between these demographics. People from Lolcow are much more inclined to air out their negative views on men because they're used to the all-female space around them understanding where they're coming from, but the people who have spent their time in mixed sex or male-dominant communities are still holding on to the misandry guilt that's been instilled on women since birth i.e. you can't hate men because there are some good ones.
My personal take is that more fujos need to learn how to take their space and stop minding male feefees, they're the ones making us tolerate the most degenerate kind of porn as a background noise to our lives while throwing a tantrum at having to acknowledge the existence of fujos. Remember sisters, men are the ones who got so fucking assblasted about fujos keeping Comiket alive by their community effort that they started peddling explicit lolicon porn there to scare them away.
No.7935
>>7934>Twitter/TumblrI'd hope not directly from there, I assume every active poster on here came from it being advertised on an imageboard. I search up fujochan out of curiosity sometimes and it got mentioned three times this year with someone even linking it. If that user is here please never do that again kek
No.7936
>>7935Even anonymous, stagnation of users leads to this place being just another shit discord.
I'd rather risk new people coming in, being annoying for like, a day, and having at least 1 new person to talk about the things I like over the same person in the few threads I peek in. Circlejerking is exactly why /vg/ is so dogshit
No.7937
>>7934I hate this idea that anyone who doesn't hate IRL men must have "misandry guilt" or must just not be brave enough to come out about it. I'm sure you don't mean it this way, but it sounds a lot like you saying women who don't hate 3DPD are too stupid to think for themselves.
My love of BL is an extension of my heterosexuality, it's why I don't fawn over or like yuri, I don't understand why you would assume a place about 2D men wouldn't attract people who are straight and wouldn't be preaching man hate 24/7. I also have yet to see what even kicked off this discussion? Can someone point me to the anti-misandry outside of this thread?
No.7938
>>7916Liking 2D boy abuse has nothing to do with 3D, but if you're making it about real people then that's kinda weird? 2D guys to me are mythical creatures that don't exist in reality, so while I make them vomit blood and wake up broken and weak from comas I don't think of them like real people or channel any malicious feelings about real people into it. My imagination is a space free from that, and I won't let people take that from me. It would feel restrictive if I couldn't be in my own lalaland of delusions. I guess that's why I hate arguments about whether guys in BL/manga act like real men or not, because I'm not thinking that far. My realism in men is on the same level as a yaoi hole or something (actually don't like yaoi hole, getting rid of a perfectly good taint to tease for a surplus hole. Does taint massaging work on real men? No idea, just looks sensitive so I'll imagine it is).
>>7937I'm a little worried it's my fault they might have felt attacked, because I voiced opinions like "I like seeing guys get the shit beat out of them if they keep smirking and freak the attacker out." There were some posts recently where people outside /ex/ said they liked milder forms of damage or hurt(/comfort) scenarios. I don't think it should be shocking or divisive that people with more vanilla tastes exist or that people are protective or empathetic with their fictional boys. Moe is a big part of being into weeb shit, and for women especially 2D gives you an opportunity to experience male moe that might not exist anywhere else in your life. I treasure glimpses of soft affection between boys, and for me the motivation to destroy that has certain nuances to it that reaffirm its value.
I'm rambling absolute shit again, wwww. Anyway, back to our regularly scheduled venting. I'm a little bit dreading the new Nube anime, because I know it'll get spammed the hell out of by lolifags demanding it must have the same nudity and fanservice as the old show or it's a bad adaptation.
In particular that guy on /a/ who spam dumps images under spoilers with no comment so you don't know what you're clicking and oh it's a child's nipples/bum again. Glad we wasted 25 posts on something that wasn't the topic of the thread, thanks. I wonder what would happen if someone spammed them back with lewd Nube and Tamamo so they understood what kind of fanbase has kept the series alive all these years. I think these things but I know if I really tried I'd probably get warned.
No.7939
>>7938>new Nube animeWow I'm out of the loop didn't realize there was a new one coming out, just a small teaser trailer so far?
I fell in love with the OP ages ago and didn't see the show until years later, I love Nube's bushy >:) eyebrows and the whole show was basically those cute magic school shows before it was cool.
Japan seems to be on a reboot kick right now. Admittedly I thought the new Ranma and Urusei reboots were a bit lackluster, but I liked the newest Gegege iteration so hopefully that supernatural element is the key and this will be good too.
No.7941
>>7937>I hate this idea that anyone who doesn't hate IRL men must have "misandry guilt" or must just not be brave enough to come out about it. I'm sure you don't mean it this way, but it sounds a lot like you saying women who don't hate 3DPD are too stupid to think for themselves.No, it's not stupidity. It's a very natural strategy for self preservation in an environment where you get punished for speaking up about misogyny. When I still wasn't as pinkpilled as I am now, I simply couldn't voice my opinion against men being pushy and sexist in weeb spaces specifically because they would dogpile me, do whataboutism and rile all the pickmes to cape for them and that's only the most sensible end of them, I'm not even mentioning the nazis with loli avatars who will literally doxx you and your employer for saying that maybe men should rape less women. You learn either consciously or subconsciously to avoid causing a situation like that for yourself. Accepting our fate as second class citizens has been forced on us since birth and unlearning it is a huge process. I get that the extreme blackpill feminism that crosses over to just attacking other women for "enabling" men is not only annoying but actively mentally damaging, but we need to be aware of the facts.
No.7944
>>7941>I'm not even mentioning the nazis with loli avatars who will literally doxx you and your employer for saying that maybe men should rape less womenNTA but funny that you say this because the only people who have doxxed me and harassed me are other women for writing about little boys fucking lol
No.7945
>>7944lol, same. It was some girl with a rape humiliation fetish who collected everyone in a server's photos and locations because they liked men from a video game. Guys seem more content to make shit up about people and let that annoy them.
No.7954
I love that fujos can make anything into yaoi and ship communities can sustain themselves, but I'm also tired of being reminded that so many companies don't hate us and are fine baiting us but will still throw us under the bus for the straight male audience. I'm sick and tired of being fucked over for liking any character unfortunate enough to belong to companies like Atlus or Hoyoverse or in a WSJ title.
No.7965
>>7964Right? People on MRM are fucking terrible at tagging in general but pokemon has the worst of it.
No.7971
I hate how even the series that are obviously only read by fujos or men that aren't interested in ecchi force that one or two very badly written female characters in that are shilled all the fucking time, usually through the worst types of fanservice.
It's aggravating when like 90% of the cast are male characters so they think they HAD to sexualize the token girl because they believe nobody would read or watch the series if there isn't some ecchi every two damn chapters.
Plus point if it's anticlimatic shit like a series that's otherwise serious or if the girls act full ooc in the ecchi scenes.
To my understanding there are no ecchi otaku that watch anything for some casual fanservice when the story focuses on men. There are like 60 pandering anime per season, they have more than enough shit to watch, they won't pick your sausage fest up for that one girl, jeez
And the people that follow the series from the start like it for the story or men. If anything they might end up dropping it due to being annoyed by shoved in tits.
There is nothing that makes most people lose faith in a series quicker than try-hard fanservice that screams "please buy our show, we promise there are naked girls".
No.7972
>>7971Probably to trick teen boys or non otaku men into picking the series up, or maybe they just want to sell merch of that one girl and are banking on guys thinking with their dicks and buying it even if they aren't fans.
There are definitely men who do still read the sausagefest and fixate on the one ecchibait girl, just look at any /a/ thread for such a series.
No.7973
>>7971When I made my way through the Black butler anime I knew season 2 was an anime original oddity in general but one of the insane things was how they added a female character who for most of the season existed only to be abused and sexualised and it was like she taken out of some edgelord ecchi anime.
No.7978
>>7906What's worse is the people trying to force you into liking some het ship, or trying to turn the male characters into women, and you better like that or else you get called a misogynist.
No.7988
>>7906Same, I have this unstoppable urge to talk about the pairings and series I like but I either can't because there is no fandom to begin with (at least none in a language I can properly speak) or nobody cares about what I say because I like to analyse the lore instead of talking about which type of girlboss my favs would be.
I am also autistic about characters acting in-character so everything that changes their roles makes me lose interest, be it genderbending, setting- or role-change AUs or infantilization. I hate having some cool as fuck men with great dynamic before me that make a hot ship and seeing that 90% of the fans have no concept of romance unless it's about a soulless man and a girly girl when this binary heteronormative shit is the very thing I try to avoid by being into yaoi.
No.7990
Just spent several days debating with myself over whether a shiisa has a hooked tongue like a cat's or not. All because if I say yes he won't be able to give blowjobs.
No.7998
I'm one of the only purebred fujos in a group of fujoyumes who are only there to gush about the hot semes while the bottoms are shafted hard and I feel so frustrated over it. IRL I'm only attracted to women and can't relate to them cooming to male physique or looks and I try my best to pay lip service, but I'm mostly here just to enjoy the dynamics and character stories. For the record I would be just as uncomfortable in a yuriyume group too, I just don't like hearing about how much people want to fuck fictional characters when I'm trying to talk about their personality and writing.
No.8037
>>8035I thought it was mainly crypto-hetfags who transbend just one of the guys. Lesbians would be more likely to transbend both of them and turn the ship into pseudo-yuri, which does happen but less commonly. Aidens who excessively feminize and project on the bottom remind me more of the 'straight' girls who love male coomer targeted H doujins and self insert as the big tiddy waifu doing ahegao.
No.8038
>>8037It might be because a lot of crypto-hetfags call themselves lesbians or even claim to have a girlfriend when in reality they’re just dating a a genderspecial male.
No.8039
>>8037>>8038>crypto-hetfagsWhy crypto? What's stopping these people from writing het pairings in the first place instead of shitting up fujo ships? It's not like they'll be lined up against the wall for doing so if someone found out
No.8041
>>8037They're not lesbians lol
>>8039Speaking as someone who enjoys both fujo and yumeshit, it's just an appetite for several things. It is weird if it's all about husbandofagging and self-insertion (like uke TiFs) but i don't get why the two are mutually exclusive or why it's wrong to prefer one half of the ship. It's all female het fantasies in the end.
>usually the so-called seme is even canonically acting like the bottom but that isn't relevant because bottom is who they self-insert into or are attracted toYeah that's just lazy and takes the fun out of shipping. Though it can be fun to picture the uke as radically different from how he comes across in daily life. My problem with being strictly anti-insertion (even as a subtle meta thing) is there's no right way to be a fujo really. Fujos who like hyper feminine ukes piss me off but they're still enjoying anime buttsex, just in a way that i find unpalatable
No.8045
>>8044Dang, is it a small publishing house with supply chain issues? Maybe you could check their site to see if they've made an announcement about it.
No.8046
>>8045They're independent but they're not particularly small, they've been around for more than 20 years and releasing new translations every month or so, tho it's usually only like 3 or 4 mangas. I know they stopped printing prior volumes from both series, one is cuz of a change of publisher in Japan so that explains that, but the other they haven't say why. It says nothing on their site or social media so I got no clue.
No.8048
>>8037Probably. I just noticed that they often claim to be lesbians. I honestly feel like half of them aren't. Lots of them are young yume or fujos afraid of men or insecure about men and boys or something so they obsess about women but wait a few years and you see them having a husband while the typical self-acclaimed straight fujos are still into 2D only.
This does NOT mean that I suspect lesbians of being bi. What I mean is that there are lot of people in fujo fandoms that are so obsessed with labels and busy with social media browsing that they don't even know themselves and their genuine preferences so they just repeat what others say.
e.g. I was diagnosed to be autistic (but usually don't mention it if it isn't relevant for the discussion) but feel like a lot of people just slap the autism label (or the tranny label, or "bi" or "lesbian" or some mental illness) into their bio to go with the flow.
It might also be my imagination and I don't use tiktok myself but I feel like the majority of hetbenders are tiktok addicts based on how often they bring it up.
No.8049
>>8048>I just noticed that they often claim to be lesbians. I honestly feel like half of them aren'tThis is true outside of fujo and even fandom spaces anyway. Identifying as a lesbian has been trendy for awhile because everyone and their mom is bisexual now. The whole comphet/masterdoc thing makes it easier too.
No.8050
>>8049It's especially ridiculous when I witness online drama because someone who only had boyfriends so far fights for her right to be labeled as bisexual. It's so stupid to me. I get that she can be bi. You are still bi even if you have five boyfriends. But why is it SO damn important to make that clear if it has zero relevance in their life because they don't experience alienation or homophobia since it's impossible to tell they're bi?
Same shit with trans that show zero hints of being trans other than the pronoun drama. The whole reason for why lgbt+ used to ally is the oppression. Why is the transness even relevant if they dress, look and behave like their biological gender? It feels like they just want to belong to every subculture without being part of it. Same with the "nerd" obsession.
No.8084
>>8071>Why would anyone cheer this on?The people cheering this on are incapable of being happy and instead must chase the high of "fuck the libtards" to feel anything approaching it.
No.8085
>>8071this belongs in the censorship thread, I have a feeling a lot of the venting will be focused on censorship law
No.8093
>>8081It's probably about engagement. Nobody cares about canon character/OC ships, so some try to worm their way in by slapping an existing name onto their OC and many don't even notice the difference or don't care. It's especially annoying when the character behaves aggressively zoomer'ish or like a demure housewife, like most OCs, when the guy in question is a grownass man in canon.
>It's because they are ashamed to admit they actually want the MC for themselves? I wish it was just MCs, I rarely ever like MCs. One of the few upsides male otaku have is that they can only selfinsert into MCs because they need to be the center of attention, so they will usually leave your gay ships in peace unless they involve the MC. Female selfinserters latch onto everything and other fans might even pretend that their ooc version was faithful to the original. Worst is when secondaries get into the fandom through fanworks and maybe don't even read the original. To them the OC version is the canon one, so they become fans of that and propagate the misconception (or mislabeling).
No.8098
>>8071Living in the UK at the moment, what kind of censorship do you mean? I've not bothered being careful of anything yet so haha, oops.
No.8100
>>8099I feel your pain, Nona. Are there really any big creators left who aren't gendies? In any fandom? I'm trying to be more tolerant of them because I realize a lot of them are quite young but, every time I open up twitter and see nothing but the vasltless sea of troonshit, I do kinda wish they'd all drop dead
No.8101
>>8100I understand you. Fandom used to be about finding other cool people. These days, everyone seems so damn hateful. I don't even mind if people are gendies, but since being a gendie creator is so heavily tied up with posting hateful things towards people who do not agree with you, it creates this atmosphere of apathy, and complete consooooooooom.
No.8102
>>8101Yeah and I hate how much of the fandom is rooted in "nerdiness" instead of actual, genuine interest in the series it should be about.
I am so fucking tired of adults that behave like loud retarded 8 year olds and people who make their fandom stance their whole personality and scream about their quirky traits and post in memes instead of proper sentences.
No.8103
>>8102>Yeah and I hate how much of the fandom is rooted in "nerdiness" instead of actual, genuine interest in the series it should be about. NAYRT but I was so shocked when I first learned that people join fandoms before starting the story they're supposedly into. Like, there are people who just enjoy things for the aesthetic, and I suspect a lot of people who exclusively post about memes or political stances are that type of 'fan.'
No.8104
An anon posted a meme about this a few days ago and it reminded me of my deep hatred for the tagging on yaoi sites. Maybe im the one doing something wrong but its almost impossible to find the shit you like on MRM or any other gay doujin site with a tagging system. Despite yaoi and bara having different tags due to their different content, theres so much shit thats tagged with both yaoi and bara despite clearly fitting into one catagory or the other, making the separation almost useless. Theres also shit thats just clearly not tagged right, like content tagged as bara thats clearly yaoi made by a woman who just gives her guys abs or stuff tagged as yaoi that only an old Japanese homosexual could dream of getting off to. If i want to see guys with large pectoral muscles its listed under a tag called “big boobs” or something stupid where I’m then bombarded by “draw a girl, call it a boy” estrogenized femboy shit that borders on futa. Fit ikemen get put under the same tags as morbidly obese anthropomorphic raccoons fucking each other. Whats even the point of tagging if it doesn’t filter anything. It’s like the wild west.
No.8105
>>8104I guess it depends on the fandom, on MRM at least. Pokemon fans don't seem to tag pairings but Blue lock fans do. A quick look at the Final fantasy pages makes me think cloud and noctis doujins get tagged for their pairings but for FF14 doujins you have to wade through bara and furry sludge unless you know specific doujin authors to search for.
No.8106
>>8035Why on earth do you believe they're lesbians? Cuntbending the bottom and selfinserting into them sounds like extremely heterosexual yumejoshi behavior.
No.8111
I know canon doesn't really matter and we can ship whatever the fuck we want but god it would be nice for one of my ships to become canon for once.
KCD fandom got surprise homo recently and I can only imagine how great that feels.
No.8117
>>8111I wonder if KCD even had the fanbase to appreciate it. lol. All I saw seemed very divided on the topic.
I wouldn't mind more ships becoming end game for the finale. Though from what I've seen if they decide to pander too early it fucks up the characters growth. Though picrel is also end game gone wrong so, idk.
No.8120
>>8101>>I don't even mind if people are gendies, but since being a gendie creator is so heavily tied up with posting hateful things towards people who do not agree with you, it creates this atmosphere of apathyIn my experience it's either gendies or people into feminism who use feminist rhetoric and talking points to defend the female character they self insert as. Every single fandom I’ve been in has at least one of these people writing university thesis on one female character, full of personal bias or projection and coincidentally always a romance with the MC. These messy analyses gain traction because people are too lazy to scrutinize and find logical fallacies, and as a result fandom becomes a shitty circlejerk with the same few people.
No.8121
>>8111I am so, so jealous of people who are into canon ships. Like, there are people out there who read/watch/play something, get shippy vibes from characters, start to ship them, and then actually get to see them together by the end? That's crazytown.
My copium is that fujos always get the really good fanworks. It's why some yumes/himes are so mean to us.
No.8124
>>8123I used to be a huge fan of a manga called Adekan but after a while I moved on not only because I wasn't feeling the plot anymore and cause it keeps losing fan translators but also cause the author was clearly fujobaiting the main guys while also mentioning in promo material that the manga isn't BL. If I had stuck with it I imagine I'd just end up in a situation like yours.
No.8125
>>8124I'm so sorry Nona, I've googled it and it's so obvious from these effeminate men on the covers that nobody other than fujos would care about a manga like that, moids would call it gay no matter the sexual orientation of the characters and yumes would cry about the lack of self-insert female protagonist. Hell is too cold for fujobaiters, they all want our money but have zero respect for the yaoi that keeps their shitty fandoms alive
No.8126
>>8124What she did with Adekan was crazy, 100% of your audience is fujoshi and you decide to switch gears to your female self insert fantasy years into publication. Idk what the sales are like but i hope they tanked. I wish fujoshi had more backbone and dropped authors who don’t respect their audience.
No.8128
>>8127Meanwhile, I don't care if lolifags get mad, I'll just be annoyed if Nube/Tamamo suddenly takes off in western fandom. When I searched the ship a few years back after watching the anime for the first time, I think there was only like 1 result in Spanish or something. But we all know it's going to be transbends all the way down and I'm so exhausted. Monkey's paw curling in action. At least we'll probably get lots of new Japanese art.
And if they de-canonize Yukime/Nube due to age discourse then it's no problem for me as a fujo kek
No.8129
>>8117The fanbase has expanded significantly since the reveal which has its own share of problems. A lot of new fans started making one of the guys into an unrecognizable uwu soft boi, for example.
Still, I can only imagine how great it is for the people who shipped them after playing the first game.
No.8136
>>8127Considering how few fanworks exist in English I'm still hyped for new works if nothing else. Japan will always make pretty art regardless of course so it's a win even if the remake is bad.
No.8140
>>8128>western fandomDepressingly understandable concern but I figure it may still remain niche over here, though it would admittedly kinda suck because I like reading fics. We'll just have to see in the end ig.
>>8128>>8136>JP artOh, for sure. It was funny browsing Xitter and seeing a good few JP comments along the lines of "lol TamaNu in the reiwa era!!!" I'm pretty hopeful in that regard. Heck, even beyond the anime there's also been an announcement for a new series, (Hell Sensei Nube Kai in Saikyō Jump) starting this May, so the whole franchise is just gonna be more active starting this year. Beyond art I'm hoping the anime + new manga spurs on a desire to complete the TL for the original manga.
No.8154
>>8151same. the boy is cute and i love the art style, but i just can’t convince myself to watch it. for me though it’s less the aggressive hetero aura and more my inability to deal with testicular-alien-abduction as a plot point.
No.8155
>>8154WTF, nta but I've been seeing so much hype around this show and didn't realze that was a plot point.
No.8158
What happened to the MRM comment section?
No.8160
>>8155yeah. i somehow didn’t hear about this for roughly the first month or two of the show being hyped, but afaik one of the genuine overarching plot points is that aliens stole the main guy’s dick and balls. and yaknow, i could imagine that being kinda funny and absurdist for a single episode, or if it involved a side character
(or if it was the set up for a trashy doujin), but something about it being a central point throws me tf off.
No.8161
>>8154>>8160It's not the aliens, it's the misandrist old lady tunnel ghost who threatens to eat your banana.
He ends up possessed with her negative energy that gives him a super speed transformation that always whines that it wants to lie down and die. The ghost they trap in a beckoning cat figure, and force her to help them find the balls after she dropped them and other ghosts claimed their power. He gets his dick back after the first arc (a couple days covered by 4 eps iirc), and doesn't even realize his balls are gone at first. The ED is actually full of his balls, badumtish. The aliens are interested in humans with supernatural powers because it's novel to them, but their original motive was to breed with females. They become recurring antagonists, but like with the ghosts, some aliens are good guys in poor circumstances.
Anyway the old lady is probably the best character. Sage for don't bother watching this to ship, it's just a fun shounen. The two boys will be together for the first arc of part 2, and the drama between them will force them closer, but it's not romance material to me.
No.8168
>>8151There is another one later who looks IMO slightly better (I hate the male MC) but I didn't make it that far, everything about the series bored me and despite the action it's basically a super quirky romcom which is a genre I am incapable of liking.
No.8198
Any reason why Asian artists seem to just delete all their art/their entire social media account on a whim? I've seen it happen with Japanese, Korean, and Chinese artists. I get it if they're no longer part of the fandom, but they almost always come back a few months later under a new account and repost the art they deleted. Is there a cultural reason for this or something?
No.8199
>>8198It could be to avoid art thiefs, or avoid people who know them irl and guessed their online identity? The second case makes sense if they never post their face and blur or hide their hands with stickers if they post personal photos and not just art, especially if they go to conventions/events and have a lot of followers.
No.8200
>>8198I do this with my fanfic. I’ll post a fanfic on one of my accounts. 5 months down the line I’ll think “ew I hate this fanfic and it makes me cringe” and delete the fanfic and sometimes the account only to make a new account and repost an edited version of the fanfic I thought was cringe. I’ve done this with three accounts now on three different fanfic websites. I don’t know why I’m like this.
No.8201
>>8200please stop. you have to understand the pain of losing a fic you love or not being able to find it
No.8202
>>8200this is dumb. just anon it, edit it, then unanon it when it's fixed.
No.8211
>>8201>>8202Well I haven’t done it in a good 2 years now. I do understand the pain of losing a fic and have had unfruitful searches when looking for a lost fanfic, but I also understand why people delete their stuff.
>just anon it, edit it, then unanon itThe fanfic websites I deleted fic from aren’t ao3. I actually haven’t deleted my first ao3 account yet despite having the urge to sometimes. I know if anything I can anon the fics on ao3.
No.8223
>>8220>not liking guroWow unbased
No.8224
>>8223If the canon and ship is already crazy enough for it then sure. I have ships that fit guro. But sometimes you're just scrolling some art of two normal dudes and then suddenly one of them has no limbs in this sex pic. It also depends on how much affection I have for the characters. I'm usually only into terrible things happening to characters that deserve it.
Yeah, I know everyone has different taste, I'm having fun in Weenie Hut Jrs.
No.8227
>>8220Recently someone I'd spent hours ranting about fav ships with has started making numerous posts about how offended they are by
ENNEAD for being cultural appropriation, and expressed this by twice chasing around someone we know has self esteem issues telling them how disappointed and offended she is, then started posting vents about how hurt she is as "MENA" that nobody takes her culture seriously and treats it as a fetish. She lives in Europe? I showed the posts to my non-fujo friend for an unbiased opinion and his reaction was "holy shit I could not be in the same room as her."
I remembered nona here saying they play along with some acquaintances to get the juicy fandom/OC talks out of them, and I've done that so many times in the past on image boards, but this was a friend through social media and it feels weirdly more intimate and immediate to me so the thought just looms in the back of my mind.
Also also, a while back I was offering writing of her fav tsundere being all embarrassed after sex and denying he enjoyed everything in a fluster, and she goes to me "no thanks, noncon is against my beliefs." HE'S THE MOST TSUNDERE DENIAL BITCH EVER. That's his entire character. You can't write him in a relationship without him getting huffy and storming out of the room only to wander back later and silently lean on someone to show his affection. What OOC smut are you reading if you can't accept the tsun? This is fiction and he could punch someone unconscious if he didn't want it.
No.8233
>>8220>Makes great non-ship content of your OTP, but is an anti>Makes great lewds of your fave, even draws cute art of your OTP that can be mistaken for ship art, but they don't actually ship it, they're only interested in your fave getting fucked by mobs or will pull a random canon character out of a hatThis is very common when it comes to people stealthily liking a problematic ship but pretend they don't and even condemn it but they still draw/talk the most shippy fucking things about it so they're just entirely in denial. I met far too many people like this (some that did hide that they did like it, but some others complete total antis that were coping that it was totally not shipping) and I don't know what compels people to do loops and hoops to not like something in a ship way but discussing it almost indistinguishable from ship talk.
No.8234
>>8227As someone who's been interested in all cultures of the world since childhood and likes writing stories based on them, the cultural appropriation talk is my actual nightmare. I genuinely appreciate the cultures and do research to my best extent, but no matter how well I would fare some 2nd/3rd gen immigrant born and living in the west would still scream at me for "fetishizing". I sympathize with the problems of diaspora and fully believe that they're hurt by people using their cultures for aesthetics, but being real for a moment these people usually were born in the west and have no immersion in the culture as a native besides maybe visiting grandma once a year, and are treated as western foreigners by the people in the original country. Lashing out at creators for writing a story about ancient China or nomad tribes because you feel like that's your story to tell is understandable but ultimately pointless, especially if you're trashing a smaller creator who doesn't have the power and money of big studios to conduct actual thorough research and fact checking.
No.8235
>>8227> I was offering writing of her fav tsundere being all embarrassed after sex and denying he enjoyed everything in a fluster, and she goes to me "no thanks, noncon is against my beliefs."she sounds insufferable, people like this are the reason I don't bother trying to make fandom friends anymore
No.8238
>>8227>I remembered nona here saying they play along with some acquaintances to get the juicy fandom/OC talks out of them, and I've done that so many times in the past on image boards, but this was a friend through social media and it feels weirdly more intimate and immediate to me so the thought just looms in the back of my mind.This is described like a crush. I hope I am wrong for your sake because she doesn't sound great.
No.8245
>>8234Same here. I also never met an actual member of a culture or ethnic group using the cultural approbation term or being angry about someone else enjoying their culture. If anything I usually see the opposite, people are happy if they see others showing interest in their culture, drawing related things, enjoying their food or buying cultural goods like someone adoring katana for example.
On a recent Palestine event they happily sold traditional clothes and kufiya. When you visit a different country they are proud if you dress like them and show respect etc.
I also always interacted with like 150 nationalities since I live in a big city so this whole mentality is so foreign to me. I have never seen it here and honestly whenever I see someone bringing it up it comes from wealthy female US Americans that are suspiciously white but pretend to be the target of racism even though they don't speak a single other language besides English.
No.8251
>>8234To be honest my kneejerk reaction was to think "none of my Egyptian friends have ever felt a direct connection to ancient Egypt, they're muslims to start with, wtf." Ancient Chinese customs are still around today, and people identify with the old culture and people because of real similarities, but there is just such a big disconnect with certain civilizations I can't imagine it's worth fighting over unless you were talking historical accuracy. In which case, I would have made an argument about practicality since I listen to history podcasts that discussed the purposes of ancient Egyptian artworks and why the dress styles in them aren't accurate to real everyday wear, so I could see where people would be mistaken by using those as an example. But that wasn't the issue they brought up, they just cried that it was upsetting them. Just tell someone they were doing the equivalent of a cheap sexy Halloween costume and say it was tacky instead of acting like it was personal and immoral!
But yeah, what troubled me most was that she kept going after this one girl who tried googling outfits and drawing fanart based on that. Nobody else was able to comment on the art and the effort she put into it because of the mood after that. Who can argue with the feelings of a person with melanin?
>>8238The start of that I
was describing the nonas talking about their crushes in the other thread. But it's more like I've used 4chan since I was a kid, so I've always done fandom like a double life. Can't mention chans on other sites or discord or the puritans start screaming and threatening to kick you out. I can't mention my more personal fandom output on 4chan because then I'd be a faggot and an attention whore. So naturally the non-chan fandom feels closer to the real me, even though I'm constantly dodging voicing my real opinion on social issues and people's art styles etc. Once you chat with someone a number of times over a year they feel like a friend, so it's jarring when you have to keep your mouth shut about them going loopy. How did we connect on the same wavelength for five hours of dudes frenching and sticking things in their asses but then THIS comes out of her. Reality is fucky.
>>8245Most of the time it feels like co-opting morality to shut down Thing-I-Don't-Like. Just stealing brown people to get your way.
No.8252
>>8251I have lived the imageboard/fandom double life since 2005. My dream is for places like this to get more populated because, while I consider using 4chan past 2016 a character flaw of mine (I've weaned myself down to /ck/ and a few generals!!!), I prefer imageboard style discussion. Sometimes you can get a thread that is chill about fanworks, but now that so much of 4chan is archived I'm uncomfortable leaving a footprint.
No.8253
>>8251>Most of the time it feels like co-opting morality to shut down Thing-I-Don't-Like. Just stealing brown people to get your way.I think tumblr destroyed the brains of a whole generation of teens, mostly girls. Recently I watched a video about the Hivliving scandal and on some level I totally understand why that girl lied about her identity to that degree. If you're young and impressionable and constantly told that being white, straight and not trans is the worst thing on the planet and you're not allowed to have an opinion on anything and you're not allowed to write about something you're not of course there's gonna be some misguided teens who will try to be as many marginalized identities as possible for tumblr clout.
No.8254
>>8220Fandom has changed for the worst. Me I can't stand other fujos who always break down in the face of discourse and feel they have to pay lip service to some hetero ship or the yuri fans calling them misogynists so they drop in some virtue signaling about female characters or how the m/m ship is actually lesbian.
No.8255
>>8254Same for me with the lip service. If they're reading and writing just M/M, then they are simply M/M enjoyers. No need for the pretense, nobody will give them a medal and fanfare. I wish they could be forthright about it and save themselves the bother. Fwiw at least I find people who are open now that they are fujos/fudans, or only there for the slash, are much chiller and usually levelheaded
No.8257
Really pisses me off aidens who draw loli and call it shota. No you fucking retard if you draw a little boy and give him a pussy that's a loli. Draw some cock and balls or go home.
No.8258
>>8039>What's stopping these people from writing het pairings in the first place instead of shitting up fujo ships?Because straight ships are yucky. I honestly think some are embarrassed of shipping m/f because what if it makes them less gay? What if people call them homophobic/lesbophobic? Or if that m/f ship is infamous for a number of reasons.
I think xitter fandoms are just this big race to see who can be gayer and out gay other people. Just see timebomb (Jinx and Ekko) and how some say both are bi or make the guy into a tranny so they can be le hecking lesbians. Funny enough, the canon lesbian ship has a very anti-tranny stance (they hate when someone draws the butch one with tranny scars) while the gay ship side is infested with tranny shit because they can't stand the thought of making two cis queer men fuck lol
No.8259
>>8123S-Sheith? I understand…
No.8260
>>8257The state of the western Sebaciel community in a nutshell.
No.8261
I have some unpopular opinions and I want to take this off my chest.
Why are some fujos so militant on making their ship canon? I like shipping (GL, BL and het) characters and I'm not gonna bitch and moan that my delusions are not canon.
I really feel like I'm the only fujo trekkie that doesn't want spirk to be canon despite me shipping them. I value their canon OG platonic friendship too much. same with spones and mckirk.
Another unpopular opinion:
I really really hate the "they're just roommates" meme, especially when it's done to real life or historical people. Yeah bro I like making discussing history sound like stupid online fandom discourse!1! XDD
I don't care that past historians used interpret some gays wrong, you're doing the same shit applying your own biased and modern mindset on to the past. It also doesn't help that this meme is used by the most annoying people.
No.8262
I hate bad gachas became for fujos now. Go on the joseimuke board and its all yumes shouting down fujoshi. Every new high budget open world gacha is becoming incel only. I don't want otome to be the only options for husbandos in mobile games. I just want to see pretty guys having homonbait in a cool world with a story, what Genshin was before it became shit. Now every game either panders to these incels or its otome that panders to yumes who hate seeing anything gay with their husbando. There's nothing new or good to jump into.
No.8264
>>8257To be fair this is just Aiden logic in general, shota or not
>>8261>you're doing the same shit applying your own biased and modern mindset on to the pastHard agree. As much as Tumblr people shit on the "they were really close friends" thing historians say, people in the past had completely different ideas about homosexuality and what was socially acceptable. Even 10, 15, 20 years ago, we thought about homosexuality differently. And I'm just talking about the Anglosphere, cultural concepts (around homosexuality) differ around the world. Many historical homosexuals has wives and kids because most people had kids unless you were in a unique role. Nobody cared (or cares) what women wanted, we were just broodmares outside of being nuns or something. Ideas of male relationships varied and lots of cultures had very close idealized relations between men comrades or mentors and students. It was normal in many many many cultures to rape little boys or slaves.
I can't help but feel that midwits or low IQ love to apply anachronistic logic to the past
>>8262I hate gatchas and everything about how their business model operates, but I wish Genshit fujos would stop giving money or simping for a game that gives them crumbs.
>hurr durr mental gymnastics about why it's okay to have male characters completely covered but have female characters giggle everywhere with cleavageI'm baffled by why games or franchises in general don't pander to women more with pretty boys. Is it REALLY that HARD to have fujobait scenes with ikemen?
No.8265
>>8262Yeah gachas are dead for fujos and I feel bad for my friends who still give Hoyo their time and money because they're overdosing on copium thinking that they'll be getting a new gay ship soon when the writing has been on the wall for a long while now. I stopped playing gacha altogether once both Genshin and HSR went tits up, the temptation of Chinese gachacel money is too great for any game developing company to give any crumbs to fujos in particular. Yumes are still getting some measly amount of bait in the form of a personality-less husbando who gets shafted just enough not to bother male players but TWO male characters? Interacting? When that time could be spent in another big titted waifu sucking the MC's dick? Not going to happen.
No.8267
>>8265I don’t feel bad for the people still clinging to the dead corpse of chinese gacha when the writing has been on the wall for years. I just wish it was easier to put together a team to just start creating the fujo friendly games of the future instead of waiting for the whims of corporations, but indie game dev is such thankless work its hard to do much.
No.8269
>>8261>Why are some fujos so militant on making their ship canon?A lot of the people like this are pretty young and don’t understand that because of shounen demographics it’s highly unlikely that their ship will become canon add onto that the majority of canon BL is in R18 series and I kind of get why they want their ships to become canon.
No.8270
>>8259No, but the fact that there's apparently more than one ship that fits the described situation is both hilarious and sad
No.8271
>>8262I'm gonna say it, I don't give a shit about LADS. They all look like ugly bogged samefaced korean dolls I have no idea why it takes most of the discussion in the joseimuke thread and the LADS yumejos love to shit on fujos there. I don't want companies to pander to autistic yumejos either because they have the same autism chinkcels do.
>>8267It's already been discussed before but most of the people who think this way aka "let's create a fujo game" will never agree on something. For me personally, I don't like "MC-Love" games, I don't care about shipping some ugly MC with LIs when I'd rather prefer shipping characters with each other but the only game that does this (Noctilucent?) is garbage and all the characters are boring as shit. And ultimately, if you ARE playing a game with an MC, people will have some personal investment with the characters so it's impossible to not make (You)sexual characters in some manner.
No.8272
>>8271I honestly feel the best course of action regarding how to make a fujo game that isn’t something that follows the average BL VN structure is to simply not make a romance game at all and just drop bait between characters with no resolution within the plot itself.
No.8274
>>8271>I don't give a shit about LADSI also do not care for LADS, but I do think it's hilarious how much it's pissed off male gacha fans. I'm happy for the people who play it, even if I do not understand its appeal at all. The 3D guys kind of freak me out, and I don't like the POV thing, but I'm happy for a female-oriented gacha game to gain so much popularity.
>>8273I know it's unrealistic to expect full-on JRPGs to have BL, so I wish we got more games in the RPGmaker style. Like how male players get Demon's Roots and that sort of thing. I want that but yaoi. I guess something more SRPG-ish but still story-heavy like Utawarerumono could be cool, too. I'm disappointed by how few indie games there are with BL elements and no self-insert protagonist.
No.8275
>>8273Here's the thing: the more canon a couple is the less popular it gets. People like to project, self-insert and headcanon everyone and their mom. If a show/game gives them a canon couple with already established dynamics people lose interest. The right way to do it is to make them friends only first and not rush it
No.8276
>>8275>the more canon a couple is the less popular it getsYuri on ice says otherwise.
No.8277
>>8276Is it 100% canon tho? I always found that anime and the main couple so boring too
No.8278
>>8277They kiss and get engaged, so pretty much yeah.
No.8280
My hot take is that fujos who have this weird ass superiority complex about how "canon ruins it for them" and go on about how people should stop wishing for canon gay couples should really get over themselves, it's such a stupid hill to die on. I'm genuinely tired of having to write for the writers, there's a difference between tasteful subtext and implication that doesn't make it explicit to keep the air of mystery and then just baiting for fujobucks.
No.8281
>>8280Sounds like you just engage with fanfics differently, imo I personally lose interest in producing fanworks if the character is canon but it's not like their shouldn't be canon couples or it "ruins" them. It just removes the sandbox for me.
No.8282
>>8280Usually the one that becomes canon isn’t the one I was shipping though. But honestly I hate surprise canon het more than canon gay in non-bl media.
No.8284
>>8276Wangxian and other Danmei couples too. I know MXTX works have many popular non canon ships, but the canon ones still have the biggest numbers.
No.8285
>>8261I understand why people want ships canon. It gets the people off your back because fandom will always cry misogyny if you ship dudes who have a m/f ship, or that it's wrong to ship m/m because all shipping is representation. Canon ships get those people to shut up. What I don't like about is when canon shipping fujos throw noncanon fujos under the bus.
>>8280I don't think this is true. I do think noncanon gives people more to do for fan content, and some people like to be in fandom for fics or doujins. My problems is a lot of canon ships tend to be boring, either they're porn one shots or its a slice of life anime. There's very few canon gay couples in a story with actual plot, which is why the most popular ones are usually unrequited or very heavy subtext. Danmei couples can be popular even if the main ship is canon if there's a lot people still enjoy about the world or the dynamics. But something where it's one canon ship by themselves and nothing else to explore with the world they live in, or with other characters, those might still be liked and popular but they won't take off in fandom in terms of fan content only because there's nothing else to do.
No.8286
>>8271>I don't like "MC-Love" games, I don't care about shipping some ugly MC with LIs when I'd rather prefer shipping characters with each otherIt's true, in BLVNs or even just canon BL, the MC can be really hit or miss for me and I'll still ship the guys in various combos. Maybe the ideal fujo game would be a simulation type game where (You), the invisible fujo cupid are managing stats and events to try and get your preferred characters together. Tokimemo matchmaker edition.
No.8287
>>8286Lol maybe a fujo version of jigsaw forcing guys into gayer and gayer situations to escape death
No.8289
>>8287Nta but please, an epilogue where even after escaping from the ordeal (if they do), the guys are unable to move on mentally, and yearn for that gay shit again
No.8291
>>8290It would be different because we would be the God-like fujo controlling the game to our own whims, like a custom room no 9 with more variety of boys.
No.8292
>>8280Why do you view it as a superiority complex? Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think you've posted this same thing at least twice before, and it always strikes me as oddly hostile, like you took someone disagreeing as a personal attack. I don't think people trying to explain how they have more fun with one type of ship over another is a complex, but when you get upset at them over and over for several months it kind of is?
>>8281>>8284>>8285This got me thinking. Usually on this subject I just talk about enjoying making new dynamics like dolls in a sandbox. Most of the time I do ship guys from series where there's no canon relationships (which I'll jokingly insist are real) and saying I like making new dynamics makes it sound like that's all I ship, but I also read tons of danmei and BL. So why don't I think of those when talking about canon VS non-canon couples?
Well very, very, extremely rarely have I felt any motivation/inspiration to draw or write for BL, but with danmei there are always points in the plot which can be explored in more detail or made into canon divergence. You can create your own bumps in the relationship and play around with it, even though they're canon, mostly because they tend to take until the latter half to truly get together. Japanese media especially tends to end on a couple getting together, I've seen people describe it as "once you're married, your adventures are over." To keep a relationship teetering on the cusp until the end the story threatens it with conflict and unveils new developments, and that's what people do with romance in general. With shipping the end goal of many fanfics is pushing your ship together or getting them to fuck, with relationship conflict and developments as major plot beats. If they're already together and fucking you have to stretch for other activities, and some people dislike doing that because it risks straying from known canon.
What I mean is it's much easier to draw a couple that's already together than write for them, because a narrative needs something to happen, and without inventing new non-relationship related plots you've got to squeeze something out of an already established couple. You have to find new internal or external complications that allows their dynamic to flourish. Some fandoms I don't have this problem at all, all my Dr Stone fics assume the characters are dating because there's still all the stupid shit that usually happens in Dr Stone going on and the relationships only heighten the tension and humor in that. It's a reimagining challenge. With series that aren't adventuring and have established couples, it's harder for me to think of plotlines for a multichapter without AUing the fuck out of it. I usually start with a what if scenario, something that I haven't seen yet, and "what if x and y were a couple" is just one of those things.
No.8293
>>8292 Cont.
Is this more a difference in approach? People whose primary fujoing is making things and people whose primary fujoing is experiencing romance? I'm talking a load of shit 'cuz it's late but I think it's more nuanced than the vents and the responses it garners. I don't think anyone is truly non-canon exclusive or canon exclusive, but when it's discussed we end up sounding like we took sides because we're defending one part of what makes us fujos.
Anyway fuck I hate it when you find someone cool in your current fandom and they post some good shit, and then out of nowhere they drop it to go back to
Naruto and start acting like a yume because they used to ship themselves with the character as a teenager. If I had a nickel for every time this has happened I'd have like four by now.
No.8294
>>8280I enjoyed YOI because the ship was canon but i derive no joy from engaging with fan content of it as most of it is boring fluff marriage life wish fulfillment. If theres nothing to play with then a ship doesnt linger in my mind, even if its cute. Ive never heard someone say fujos should stop wanting canon ships but i cant think of a time anything actually canon homo gripped me like fujobait does. it makes sense some would prefer confirmed romance though , its just different taste.
No.8295
>>8280I'm 50/50 on it, honestly. Of course I WANT my ship to be canon- who wouldn't? The problem is that sometimes, when a ship becomes canon that wasn't initially intended to be so, it leads to the characters being written in a totally different way from before they were made an official couple. In cases like that, I'd rather it just stay ambiguous, but the ideal scenario would be for them to be confirmed right when the story ends or by author statements after the fact, which leaves a lot of room for fan interpretation and doesn't give the writer the opportunity to torpedo their characterization.
>>8292>If they're already together and fucking you have to stretch for other activities, and some people dislike doing that because it risks straying from known canon.I'm none of the anons you replied to, but your post did make me wonder why more fanfics don't try making the conflict or threat an external factor. You know, a sort of save-the-princess plot, but with your given ship. That way, you're not messing with their relationship, but you can still explore other facets of their dynamic.
No.8296
>>8295>when a ship becomes canon that wasn't initially intended to be so, it leads to the characters being written in a totally different way from before they were made an official coupleSouth Park's creek in a nutshell. Totally soured me on Craig's character and I already didn't like Tweek.
No.8297
>>8296Sad, I liked Tweek though I never got into Creek before the episode since they hardly interacted in the show. Personally Craig was/is boring to me, but I imagine people who shipped him with Stan were pretty bitter about the whole affair lol.
No.8298
>>8292>Well very, very, extremely rarely have I felt any motivation/inspiration to draw or write for BL, but with danmei there are always points in the plot which can be explored in more detail or made into canon divergence. This is how I feel about it. Outside of some danmei the only original BL I've seen with a long-lived fanfic scene is the Finder series and that's because it's non-stop hurdles with an ensemble cast and emotional blueballing despite the fact that they fuck in the first chapter.
For me I think my canon ship taste can be defined as "if you removed the explicit canon, would I still want to roll around in the sandbox with the bait?" and this is where I might start to sound snobby because it simply doesn't apply to a lot of the BL I've read.
No.8301
>>8292>Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think you've posted this same thing at least twice before, and it always strikes me as oddly hostile, like you took someone disagreeing as a personal attack.AYRT, I posted about it for the first time. I see it as a superiority complex because people only do it whenever others are lamenting over the fact that we'll never have another Promare/YOI moment because studios are too scared of making ships that unquestionably read as gay because that would put them in that embarrassing "for girls" category nobody wants to sign while straight couples are a status quo and lesbian couples are constantly canonized because they're nonthreatening and can more easily be written off as just best pals. And they're always ignoring the underlying message of "we want to feel respected" including in the need for canon ships and respond with a mindset essentially delivering the message of "uh so you want to be spoonfed like a bunch of troglodytes without imagination? couldn't be me" no matter how you try to frame it. That reads as a superiority complex, and funny you should mention me reading it as a personal attack when these anti-canon anons seem to believe in some zero sum game where having more canon couples would mean less canon for them I guess. Otherwise they wouldn't be bothered to even contribute to the discourse.
>>8294Shipping is fun, but YOI made me a changed woman. You mean I can have a gripping story that takes itself seriously, has great writing and voice acting, is about adult issues and also a very well developed romance between two men created by a woman writer and a woman director? Sign me up! Too bad despite making record sales the thanks they got was getting their movie project canned because they already got a shiny new cash cow (AOT, Chainsaw Man, JJK) thanks to YOI's success.
No.8303
>>8297>people who shipped him with Stan were pretty bitterIt was me. I was bitter about Creek becoming canon. Stan x Craig fics dropped so hard after that episode. I don’t think they ever recovered. I recovered, but I didn't even watch past season 18. I literally started watching South Park right after season 18 aired only to be crushed when the Creek episode aired like a year later because I had already been shipping a bunch of characters and I didn’t like Tweek at all. I still played the games, but the superhero one with the plot line to reunite Creek was the one quest line I never did. I could handle the fanart at least.
No.8305
>>8303I'm glad I'm not the only one who dislikes Tweek. I get the joke with his character, him being a methhead and all, but he's the kind of anxious softboy character that appeals to a particularly annoying brand of pooner.
No.8307
>>8296I always thought Creek was kinda cute, tho I only saw them as a couple when they went canon
No.8309
>>8305Weirdly my opinion on Tweek and Craig have swapped since playing the superhero game. I used Wonder Tweek in a lot of fights and he was useful which made me like him slightly more than I used to. Super Craig was meh. But yeah Tweek’s whole personality being “methhead lol” did not endear him to me one bit.
No.8311
>>8271I hate LADS because they shit on BL fanwork. This is why I don't want the future of gacha games for women just being fucking otome, I can't stand being around these yumes. Yumes were already annoying in the joseimuke thread always complaining about fujos. Fujos always get shit from other women in fandom, the yumes, the het/yuri stans, I'm tired of it. Why is it so damn hard to just make an anime game with some fujo pandering instead of fucking it up? I was never too into Hoyo yaoi but I see why it got a lot of people invested when most joseimuke games suck ass. It's a real shame all these games now have to pander to the worst incels possible when it was doing fine before. Now there really is nothing. And people say fujos are so "privileged" because of all the fanfics, when the reason they exist is because so much of media is hostile towards us.
No.8312
>I hate mpreg
>I hate omegaverse and all those similar verses like domsub, cake-verse and other autistic verses that have humans have strange sexual biology.
>I hate it when people put maid outfits on males (butler or waiter uniforms are superior)
>I hate the fanfic writers that just put topical or unrelated political bullshit in fanfic. I read fanfic to have a good time not be reminded of real life. Put that shit in your xitterbluesky account asshole.
You can like all of these, it's just not my cup of tea.
Also fuck JayVik faggots on mainstream social media and the season 2 writers of arcane, thanks for ruining the fandom.
No.8313
>>8311>I was never too into Hoyo yaoi but I see why it got a lot of people investedI didn't take the shipping super seriously but it was nice that the men in those games couldn't possibly have a canon female love interest for risk of Chinese incel domestic terrorism. Like yeah I'll never get the canon yaoi but I will also never get the canon het.
No.8314
>>8311I was into vtubers for a while and it's pretty much the most misogynistic and anti-fujo subculture imaginable. After I left the subculture I decided to get into BL games and other series specifically aimed at a fujoshi demographic and I've been having a lot more fun. In the end all we can really do is support the work we like and want to see more of.
I feel optimistic about the future re: BL despite everything. NuKani has inspired several copycats despite none of them taking off yet. Several BL anime are releasing in the near future and to get controversial for a moment I think the success of the Hellaverse bodes well for cartoons fujopandering going forward, even in Vivzie is the only one willing to do it at the moment.
FujoGODs will soon have our day.
No.8315
>>8312>Also fuck JayVik faggots on mainstream social media and the season 2 writers of arcane, thanks for ruining the fandom.Care to elaborate? I like Jayvik but I won't touch social media with a 10 foot pole.
No.8316
>>8311>I hate LADS because they shit on BL fanworkimagine being into a game that gives you an illusionary boyfriend and giving shit to fujos because they like anime boys making out.
Honestly between fujos and yumes/hetshippers ( most hetshippers are yumes too, either in denial or unaware of what yume even is) i find way more cringy and embarassing to pretend to have an anime boyfriend than to just ship two male characters together.
No.8317
>>8315It's similar to the klance thing in which shippers are annoying the normies and creators.
The most egregious one to me was the some fujos going into moid territory (e-sports tournaments) holding signs or petitions to Riot to make their ship canon. Like this just makes the normies and straights resent fujos even more, fucking retards have some tact.
I don't have the screenshots of when the dipshits being annoying online towards the creators. they deserve it though, because they le queerbaited the shipper community and they had the canon lesbian pairing fuck in a cell so that means the popular gay ship should be canon gay too!!!1! Nevermind the other woman in the equation! The voice actors and writers pandering to them are in it as well. Petitions are so lame.
also there's a racism controversy that involves mel in the jayvik discourse lmao.
There's also some attention whore Canadian rapper cosplaying as viktor(?) and using the jayvik popularity to get some clout… and then I just stopped paying attention to this fandom because I'm so sick of it at this point. That's all that's there to that show for the fandom huh? all shipping shipping shipping! plot? lore?? World building?? playing Gaem??? appreciating the animation? Who cares le yaois XDDDD!!!1!
No.8318
>>8317At least we can all laugh because this couldn’t have happened to a better fandom than LoL.
No.8319
>>8316That reminds me of this one "catholic" (you know the type) yume on Xitter who's always sperging about fujos because she nearly trooned out thanks to yaoi and now she thinks every fujo is some self hating DSM case like her. Whenever she goes on some Substack pseud spiel about them she gets all these groypers worshipping her in her replies. It's repulsive.
No.8320
>>8319>almost trooned out>became a yumeI swear 90% of fujotifs are literally just yumes plaguing our spaces i hate it so much.
No.8321
>>8320Yup, and should they troon out or not it always ends the same way: shitting on the evil fujos.
Insufferable "people".
No.8323
>>8319Oh, these people. NTAYRT but I absolutely know the type you're referring to. Most actual fujos that I know aren't even half troons but quite clearly identify as women, but the people with all this gender hubbub are always repressed yumes who have found a loophole in their catholic guilt allowing them to be horny for men if they just identify as a he/him themselves. They're the kind inserting cuntboys in fanfiction because they need to heterofy BL to be able to enjoy it. Later if they fall down the RW/Trad pipeline they project their own experiences onto all fujos out there despite probably having spent their entire "fujo" arc screeching about how fujoshis are goon-addicted degenerates sexualizing their minor-coded self insert pookie. Literally every single "fujo" identifying as a man I've known in my life has been like this, a heterosexual yume who took their self-insertion a step too far.
No.8324
>>8317I don't think the jayvik spergs are as bad as the klance ones. Klancefags were actual mentally ill tumblerinas who harrassed va's, tried to leak show stuff, shipped real kids, sent death threats and would get comments deactivated because they would spam "Klane is canon king". I remember just like yesterday when they made those theories about how two stars in the background of a shot (one blue and the other red) meant klance would be canon. For jayvik I feel like the mainstream fandom is full of retarded baby gays/trannies who are just very fucking annoying. Until I see Viktor's va getting stalked or harrassed or I see retarded MAKE JAYVIK CANON NOW spam comments on League posts I won't think these two fandoms are that alike.
Tho I will never forgive them for spamming ao3 with their tranny shit. May god smite americans
No.8325
>>8324Tbf with Klance shippers the creators reaped what they sowed. A lesson for all future creators, don’t bait your audience into genuinely believing you will make a popular non canon ship canon. It’s not like they were leaving bread crumbs either, they (the creators and vas) were throwing whole loaves at Klance shippers. Like I hate throwing this word around but what the vld creators did what literal queerbaiting. Not that I’m excusing what fans did, but they were feral for a reason.
No.8326
>>8317Riot is a shit company that hates women to the point of losing 100 million over it, I actually find it hilarious that they struck gold with JayVik regarding fujoshi and yet Arcane failed to make them play the game or care about LoL.
No.8327
>>8316They call fujos "male centered" but then self insert as dating an anime man. They managed to twist not shipping yourself with a male character as true misogyny, but shipping men together is. I wouldn't be surprised if they think gay men are more misogynist than straight men.
>>8317Jayvik is nowhere close to being as bad as Klance. Voice actors being involved is annoying, but if anyone is similar to Klance its the fucking Meljay shippers. They're the ones calling voice actors slurs for not supporting the het ship and harassing fic writers. They're the most unhinged ship fandom and are mosly yumes who self insert onto Mel in disguise.
No.8328
>>8317>That's all that's there to that show for the fandom huh? all shipping shipping shipping! plot? lore?? World building?? playing Gaem??? appreciating the animation? Who cares le yaois XDDDD!!!1!I see. I have no way of knowing how true this is for the fandom at large, but I myself would have never given a LoL show the time of day if it wasn't for the writing and animation. If I went back in time and told myself 10 years ago I'd be writing 50k+ words of LoL fanfic I'd piss myself laughing or want to kill myself.
>>8326>Riot is a shit company that hates women to the point of losing 100 million over itKek this. Fujobucks aside, their failure to prepare ANY meaningful amount of merch for the show was laughably pathetic. An abject failure of business from even a layperson's point of view.
No.8329
>>8327>I wouldn't be surprised if they think gay men are more misogynist than straight men.I've seen this claimed sparingly on LC lol
Ultimately it depends on how much a fujo/yume wants to be centered herself among all the "male centering," which is fair enough, but can lead to a fujoyume disliking BL where characters actually act faggy because it kinda breaks the self-insert illusion
I've seen similar complaints about yuri if a woman is too butch
But it is what it is
No.8330
>>8327>They call fujos "male centered" but then self insert as dating an anime manAren't they the ones who make their self inserts big boobie women and barely show the guy they like?
No.8331
>>8327>>8329>>I wouldn't be surprised if they think gay men are more misogynist than straight men.Can concur, I see this take on LC periodically. They have the most unhinged reasons too like one claimed that gay men rape women more which is like…. I guess they're not gay then kek. There's a lot to criticize about the misogyny in gay communities but for these people the main gripe seems to be simply garden variety homophobia and nothing more.
No.8332
>>8331But make it radfem to gain more cred. I knew one nonna who straight up like the idea of raping gay men and turning them straight, which is like, no different to straight men trying to turn lesbians straight? How is that feminist? There's a lot to be said with the gay community but my mind can't fathom some of the shit they pull out of there asses. Say you hate gay men and move on.
No.8335
>>8333
The "yume hate" here comes from a place of yumes constantly being openly hostile towards fujos and wanting to get rid of them even when fujos are simply minding their own business while the fujo hate on Lolcow is the same old whining about fujos being pornsick aiden eggs who are stealing their husbandos away. It's not comparable.
No.8336
>>8333
I don’t mind the yume hate tbh. And I say this as a fujo who is into both yume and het.
No.8337
>>8330>barely show the guy they likeyumeships and games have everything revolved around the guys, making themselves look beautiful is part of the fantasy, It's escapism in the purest form, fujo's male centrism has to do with baseline attraction to men without frills
No.8338
>>8334
Gross and insensitive response to a post mentioning female rape victims. You can disagree with both parts of what i said normally.
No.8342
>>8338There's nothing normal about you or what you said either. Stop saying dumb shit online
No.8343
>>8319>>8323>she nearly trooned out thanks to yaoiWhy is this such a common thing nowadays? Both people actually enabling this (aka the 'MLM made me discover I was trans all along' and people supporting it) and the other side that is 'all fujos are just secretly aidens in the making'.
This wasn't as common in the 2000s, you'd see the occasionally "I wish I were a boy" sure but it's never been about wishing that was you. I'm not an easily influenciable person so I never bought into the tranny grooming propaganda that DOES exist like "ooooo you only like romance between men because you wish you were a man ooooo" but do people genuinely think all women self-insert into anything vaguely romantic by default? I just don't understand it
No.8344
>>8330I noticed this when I used DLsite and looked in the women's section for the first time, but almost all of the NL works have these impossibly large breasted women. I couldn't understand it. If you were to self insert, wouldn't you want to read something where the woman has a realistic body?
No.8345
>>8317>plot? lore?? World building?? playing Gaem??? appreciating the animation? Who cares le yaois XDDDD!!!1!Based?? If Riot wanted people to care about all of the above they shouldn't have fired s1 writers during covid, s2 was horrible, other than le yaois and le yuris it had nothing going on for itself. Also it's league of legends we are talking about here.
>>8324>May god smite americansAmen to that sister
No.8346
>>8320This is why I hate the reputation fujos have in that regard. I'm pretty sure most of the fujotifs are just yumes, as that seems like classic self-insertion behavior. It's basically the same thing as when people use the female lead as their self-insert to ship themselves with their husbando.
>>8327>They call fujos "male centered" but then self insert as dating an anime man.I've never understood the "male-centered" argument, and I never will. Fujo communities are the only place online I've found that's almost 100% female. Most of the content is made by women, read or watched by women, and discussed by women. Men hate it, and I've known guys who refuse to engage with it because there's nothing to sexualize (framed as "there are no characters I like") in things like BL games. I don't know how you can make that argument in good faith when it's clear men are indifferent to yaoi at best, and at worst, actively dislike it for not taking their preferences into account. Sometimes, yume stuff or yume-adjacent media feels like it's just as much made for men as it is women (picrel). I know this is an egregious example, but still. It's absurd to act like enjoying stories and characters written by women, for women is being "male centered" when men and their preferences are completely irrelevant to the genre.
>>8333>the yume hate here and the fujo hate on lc is getting out of hand. Why can't we all just get along.I agree. I'm not a yume, and I can't understand the appeal of being one (especially when a lot of yume stuff seems to excessively sexualize the female protagonist). However, there are so many other people that annoy me in fandom spaces that I can't be bothered to care about someone crying about if I ship her husbando with another male character. Of course, this kind of comes from a place of privilege because most of my fandoms have very little overlap with yumes. I understand why other nonas get annoyed with them, and I don't think it's wrong for them to do so.
No.8347
>>8312As someone who's into kemonomimi content I hate that it's partially been invaded by omegaverse mpreg garbage. Just give me the pheromones or heat cycles without turning one of the guys into a woman.
No.8348
>>8343Probably because ever since everyone collectively decided you don't need gender dysphoria to be trans, you get lots of young impressionable teens who get convinced by the internet that just thinking about your gender or having any discomfort about your body means you have to be some flavour of genderspecial. Add autism into the mix and gender becomes their special interest. Then there's the baggage associated with being horny/liking porn as a woman that usually fundie kids will grow up with.
>>8344>wouldn't you want to read something where the woman has a realistic body?Maybe the logic is 'men love huge tits' -> 'the bigger my tits, the more irresistable I would be to my husbando'?
>>8337>yumeships and games have everything revolved around the guysI always got the impression it revolves more around the woman. It's more about what (You) want, (You) are being pursued, the guy dotes on (You). If I have a husbando, I want to see him being pursued, I want to see another character having to put the effort in to win him over. I don't want to see him fall into some selfinsertchan's lap like an isekai waifu and fawn over her. Probably why the only het I can stomach is femdom that only lewds the guy.
>fujo's male centrism has to do with baseline attraction to men without frillsI know many fujos aren't interested in relationships in real life (or are lesbians who wouldn't date men anyway) so that probably has a lot to do with the difference. I'm in this category, I don't wanna fuck so seeing a male character pursue (You) just gives me intense secondhand cringe.
No.8349
>>8348>I know many fujos aren't interested in relationships in real lifeI wonder how this works. I'm in the same boat. Said "ew gross" about boys when I was in middle school, still saying it now. No trauma around sex that I can think of.
No.8350
>>8349Same here. I just genuinely don't care about dating. I mentioned before in another thread how I don't wanna use the term aroace cause it's not like I care enough to go out and buy pride flag merch but it probably does count as an accurate label.
No.8351
>>8349>>8350I just don't get it, you have to share a room and bed with someone for the rest of your life? You have to share literally everything and all of your time? Miss me with that shit.
No.8353
>>8351And then there's people who have years, decades of their lives wasted by partners who become abusive or things simply don't work out. If I spend years writing fics and making fanart for a fandom I end up falling out of love with, at least my skills are leveled up for the next ship I'll become obsessed with.
No.8354
>>8346>However, there are so many other people that annoy me in fandom spaces that I can't be bothered to care about someone crying about if I ship her husbando with another male character. Of course, this kind of comes from a place of privilege because most of my fandoms have very little overlap with yumes.I never paid attention to yumes until I got into Genshin (inb4 ree genshit yeah I know, I don't play it anymore) years ago because my previous fandoms never had any overlap with husbandofagging. And by god, I never want to share a fandom with these crazies ever again. People who don't know how unhinged and straight up malicious yumes can get are happier being oblivious to them. Most of the worst of the worst mentally ill fujos are yumefujos too so it's become a big fat red flag to me.
No.8356
>>8355The dragon boy on that first one is cute. Switch his position and state of undress with the woman and I will now play your game.
No.8359
>>8353>at least my skills are leveled up for the next ship In theory yes and I hope for that for you, but I've seen some writers that have been for 2 decades in the game if not more, and havent really improved lel
No.8360
New thread since this one hit bump limit
which is 500 for the newfags>>8357