/ffs/ - Fujo Fandom Sperging

this might be an unpopular opinion, but when it comes to my otp which is a m/m ship, i like their het version too, with one of the characters as a woman. but none of the tranny stuff, just genuinely a girl. still heavily prefer their male versions though. side note i usually don't like this and prefer keeping the characters of my ships with their original dynamics and genders.

apparently this is a problem because its homophobic to make a same sex ship straight.
i generally agree, but before making such a claim, one should also see who it's coming from.
if they are bi or gay/lesbian, and if they usually like same sex ships too, then accusing them of being homophobic or unfair to same sex representation because they like some het genderbends seems very disingenous tbh.

i get not personally liking it and that's fine. my issue is more so when it's made into something political. how do you nonas feel about this and do you have any m/m ships you like when one of them id made into a girl too?

>>7484
It really bothers me when people hetbend a gay ship but I don't like to make it political or get on someone's case over it cause it's just fictional. If an artist suddenly sprung that on me I'd unfollow and mute, though.

>>7477
There's plenty of generic and bland BL ships/original couples (or ships that can be interesting written in the blandest way) too so it's not surprisig.

>>7477
leaving aside the fact that some of these het ships might have a genuine appeal that you personally dont see, which is fine because to each their own, when these ships are genuine slop i think it might boil down to emotional attachment.

i think most fujos didnt start out as one and had a couple of possibly mediocre het ships beforehand, and never really moved on due to having nice childhood memories linked to them as core series

>>7484
Contrary to what most people here would agree to disagree to, if I'm extremely autistic about my OTP I will like them in every other way. It really depends on the characters to make them 'het' but in general if I like my ship I don't like them purely on the fact of them being men but their story and personalities, so if one of them was a girl nothing would really change, or if both were.

I started as a fujo who used to be autistic about seeing het with my favorite characters, be it yume or hetbends or some 'canon girl pair' they had. I still don't like them very much but I have gotten around that with age.

I guess it genuinely really depends on who you ask. There's people who absolutely love some good twinky twink uke but I don't, there's people who love the confident yaoi chinned yaoi handed seme but I don't, etc.
I get more bothered when their characters aren't taken in consideration in the -bending process.

Never gonna understand trannyfication though. I can get around cuntboy (most of chinese fanartists draw cuntboy, it's inevitable) as long as it's not meant to be trans.

>>7477
I don't get it either. The strange thing is that they never like the good/uncommon het then, it's always the worst kind like literal shounen MC/"oniichan" not-sister, perma-horny, devote housewife + MC or woke Karen and husband. There are (rarely) m/f teams or friends that are genuinely cool and would make good ships but I never see them shipping these.

I see fujos more often pretending that characters with fujo pandering were bi and that we should consider them as such and it rubs me the wrong way too. Like why is it so important? How about headcanoning canon het characters as bi instead? Why must it be the few gay-coded characters we get?

>>7488
>if I'm extremely autistic about my OTP I will like them in every other way
I think for me this depends on the ship and whether het-bending it turns the dynamic into something I don't like. E.g - age gap teen x older man - I might still like teen x older woman if the genderbent woman isn't turned into a submissive waifu. Twincest or older bro x younger bro I can't stand as het because I hate oniichan x imouto and if I'm shipping m/m twincest the point is that they are the same gender and look the same. I can enjoy it as f/f but not m/f. Whenever I see hetbend (and transbend lol) the point is 99% of the time that the author wants them to do PiV and have babies or do typical anime siscon tropes, which I'm extremely not into.

>>7491
>Whenever I see hetbend (and transbend lol) the point is 99% of the time that the author wants them to do PiV and have babies or do typical anime siscon tropes, which I'm extremely not into.
I've never seen either of these. It's probably because of the type of characters I like but when I see hetbend it's almost always one of them being extremely casual and unladylike while the other tries their best to cope with the situation. The wild girlfriend who sits spread legged and walks around in just an oversized shirt, that sort of thing.

>>7488
>Contrary to what most people here would agree to disagree to, if I'm extremely autistic about my OTP I will like them in every other way.

exactly nona! i like my otp so much that every version of them is appealing to me. being a fujo, the fact they're both guys is a plus to me, but i also just love their dynamics and their characters too much to only enjoy it based off their genders, so i like their every version really.

actually my specific otp does suffer from the "and then he got her pregnant" with the uke being drawn as feminine waifu of sorts but their whole thing even as their original m/m version is that the seme is obsessed with the uke, and the uke is a more demure and proper guy compared to the manly rowdiness of the seme, so i think that's partly where it comes from, so i dont mind it despite being often strongly against heteronormativity.

I don't like hetbending because I cannot view them as the same characters anymore if someone changes the gender or species. Even that aside the vibes they give off are always different and I am not even talking about the real bad hetbending that completely changes their look and personality.
Also, I am not attracted to women which doesn't make it easier. I am usually an artfag that saves every piece of fanart for the ship I am obsessed with but genderbending is one of the rare things I will ignore.

I'm a militant hetbend hater kek. Not for any particular reason besides not being into M/F much to begin with. Even if it was done in a canon compliant or "subversive" manner I wouldn't be interested since I just don't like het itself rather than issues with heteronormative dynamics. I find people that disallow and call hetbends homophobic annoying though so I try to be quiet about it because I don't want to be associated with them.

Nothing dramatic but I will never understand how people can be envious of or angry at other artists for getting a bunch of retweets. I am not even doing it for RTs, I am posting art because I love the characters and drawing them anyway so I might as well share so that other fans are as happy as me whenever I see their works. And I am only getting retweets because I spend up to 20h on an artwork to make it perfect, not because I want the RT but because I love the characters so much that I want to shill them and convey my feelings of them.

But there are always a few people that try guilt trip others for getting engagement and when that someone is a person I considered a friend I am honestly a bit hurt myself. Plus points if they vague-mention you when they vent or attack the very people they follow for retweeting an artwork of you, be it on principle or because you casually ship a character with someone else they don't like. In this case it's the latter, but she casually ships the same character with a bunch of others as well that I don't like. Just block me already instead of making everything weird. These people guilt-trip their mutuals and then complain about not getting enough retweets. I give up and just ghost her from now on should she ever talk to me again (she probably won't).

Rest of the fandom is great though so I am having fun, I just think it's sad.

>>7494
yeah not liking hetbending isn't a problem, and i can see why especially fujos wouldn't be into it. it's more so making a big fuss out of it that bothers me, but that's something that happens in fandom constantly for everything these days.

i was in a group chat dedicated to my otp and someone posted a het art of them and a member crashed out and left, and others were like "this is a queer space and this is homophobic and im uncomfortable with hetbending of them so dont post it anymore". like, come on. not liking it? completely fair, but being "uncomfortable" with a totally harmless drawing to the point of having a meltdown is genderspecial levels of sensitivity and these people just shouldnt be on the internet

besides that, m/m really has a special flair that even the most canon compliant hetbending of it cant replicate so ill always be more enamored with my ships their original way, so i get not seeing the appeal

>>7497
Oh man, I only know the polar opposite, with everybody het- or yuribending my characters all the time and everybody but me praising it because more women allegedly means it's woker

I wish woke fags would just completely disappear from fandoms. I like progressive people but when I say "woke" I am rather thinking of the hypocrites that use social justice talk to attack members of a fandom they don't agree with.
Even if their stuff WAS more woke than my m/m it doesn't matter since it's a fandom. I come to enjoy gay fandom stuff not het shit.

I feel like it's fine if there's also yuri and yaoi bending as well. In the fanbase of my otp, it seems popularity of these things go crossdressing yaoi > het bending > yaoibending het ships > yuribending

>English speaking part of the fandoms (including Asians who can communicate in English)
>tranny shit
>cuntboy shit
>genderbending shit
>fatwashing shit
>OC shit
>tumblr artstyle
>race/species swap
>anti shit
>angry "think pieces"
>character hate (usually tagged with the name of the character)
>user hate
>artists that draw like 5 year olds
>three (3) artists that are actually good and stick to the designs, mostly refuse to talk (probably to keep their distance from the rest)
>politics

>non-English part of the fandom
>tons of talented artists that draw on-model
>the few that aren't have appealing artstyles and stick to the canon designs
>posts about actual headcanons instead of politics
>no user hate, if people dislike someone they mute and mind their own business

I know it might be different for genshi and other teen-flooded fandoms but this my experience with multiple fandoms. I stick to the Japanese side (sometimes with Russians and Chinese) and experience none of the shit which proves to me that the people claiming that yurification and trans etc was natural are full of shit. It's cultural influence. The Asian fans that understand English are usually affected by that shit as well.

>>7434
The competition aspect isn't helped by everyone being on twitter, and them being able to reach and affect creators on there. Being loud on twitter has a personal stake for these people now.

>>7501
Is this a TF post? Because this has been my problem for awhile.

>>7503
The western TF fandom is a particular kind of horror, I ignore it completely save for the 15? or so artists that are actually good. You recognize them easily because they draw like Japanese and usually stick to either G1 or IDW, probably because both of them have that anime mecha look.

There are hundreds of super talented Asian artists out there on top of that so I don't miss anything. Everytime someone posts a western fanart that isn't from one of the few good artists it's either tranny, humanformers or one of the fanarts with these annoying cartoony looks that are basically the calarts style.

>>7484
A single "what-if" hetbend done for the fun of it is no problem. It becomes undeniably homophobic when someone continuously hetbends multiple ships because at that point it's pretty clear they have an issue with same sex relationships. I have an OTP I'm really into and some of the fans constantly draw the more effeminate one as a straight up woman with big tits and treat him as such, and I seriously can't take it any other way than someone not being able to respect and accept same sex romance on the same level as straight romances.

>>7487
Obviously, a person that has an attachment or self-inserts will ship it regardless, I get that. But something can be subjective only to a certain point, objectively, some fictional relationships are badly written and full of repetitive tropes. I would not bat an eye if not for some people literally claiming it was the best love story ever written just because they have an emotional attachment to it.
>>7486
Yeah agreed, but at least with bl it's mainly for the characters looks I think

Fujos always talk about transwashing and cuntboys and all that and I agree it's shit, but does anybody else has the problem that you can simply not.. enjoy western art in general, even if it's depicting dudes?

There are always a few great western artists, but you wouldn't be able to tell they're westerners because they more or less adapt the canon art style of a series, maybe even make it better (like Asians usually do).

The other westerners instead (90%+) seem to make it disgusting on purpose and it honestly alienates me because I feel like it's a cultural thing that's foreign to me. I swear in 19 out of 20 cases when I see western artists their art is just UGLY. Not the proficiency, the style itself, the faces, the mouth, addition of weird teeth because they're vore fags, ugly eyes, fatwashing or other crap.

Even on /a/ I see anons posting this shit and it doesn't even look anime related, it looks like someone made fanart for a shitty comic. Why the fuck do westerners try to turn anime into western shit? I cannot tell if it's done on purpose or if they are so influenced by western (mostly American) shit that it's in their DNA to draw a hot anime character like a fucking family guy- or daily strip character.

If it was 2D-Disney it would be at least pretty, but it's always the ugly styles they choose.

>>7609
Imo you're biased because the western art you see posted is specifically that ugly style but it's a minority in the grand scheme of things, it's just so blatantly western it colors the entire perception of the art scene.

The Disney/Cartoony style is what I see the most of from western fan artists, or pic related with that kind of chibi-esque faux anime.

>>7609
It's funny because you can just immediately clock if it's by a westerner because it looks so… Off, for those reasons you mentioned. You really just have to cut them off wholesale because I don't really think that sifting around to find the minority of talented ones who don't produce tranwashed or weird fetish art is worth the trouble tbh. Especially when it's so easy to just stick to the JP side these days.

>>7609
Most western artists I encounter these days emulate a pretty anime style but I've spent years on tumblr in the 2010s so I definitely remember when 'tumblr nose' was a thing and all those virtue-signalling quirks like adding fat rolls and stretch marks. I've only seen one recent example where I get the impression the artist is making her character ugly on purpose cause his nose is huge and hooked and his cheekbones are exaggerated and he has huge hairy pecs. It's probably not a coincidence that this artist is 'intersex trans gay two-spirit'.

>>7609
There are many amazing western artists out there who draw in anime style and I appreciate their work just like I do Asian artists' work, but the western art style itself is so fucking ugly I can't enjoy it. The one with big, defined noses, close set eyes, thick lips, the ugly and muddy coloring style, the annoying expressions, the linework that's too thick, the stiff composition… It just looks ugly.

>I cannot tell if it's done on purpose or if they are so influenced by western (mostly American) shit that it's in their DNA to draw a hot anime character like a fucking family guy- or daily strip character.
I guess it's 50/50. They don't feel comfortable emulating anime style due to having grown up with western cartoons and comics and also maybe consider it… inferior? Because all art schools in the west always look down on it.

>>7609
>>7615

>They don't feel comfortable emulating anime style due to having grown up with western cartoons and comics and also maybe consider it… inferior? Because all art schools in the west always look down on it.

It's this and that DeviantArt made anime style "cringe" if it doesn't look perfect, so they feel it's safer to make art that's ugly on purpose. And they're terrified of being called weebs so they have to make their love of anime ironic somehow.

I agree with what everyone is saying about Western art. That's why when I draw, I mostly try to not emulate anime art and just go for realism (or, something similar I don't have a word for?). If I can't make a satisfactory anime style, there's no need to force myself into doing something that I know won't work anyway.

>>7617
Eh, I made peace with my cursed anime, comic, and disney-esque art style but you do you nonna.

>>7609
This argument is so retarded to me because there are waay too many artists online nowadays, and Asian artists also have a lot of bad, low skill artists that get popular or draw weird shit like grotesque cat human hybrids and make everything, even non-anime, into anime too. Even the typical Korean artist is a gendie now, and Thai artists draw cuntboy/mpreg at higher rates than Western ones. The average Asian artist doesn't improve the art style of the media they draw, you just filter through to the talented ones.

>>7620
>and Thai artists draw cuntboy/mpreg at higher rates than Western ones
I noticed that too why is that?

>>7620
Same bringing up fringe "Tumblr" art as the standard for western fan artists seems so outdated and its never been true. It was a minority then and it's a minority now, that shit just gets reposted and mocked so much people just assume it to be the standard when it was like 100 people max. James Hart "How to Draw Manga" deviantart tier fanart has always been the bigger plague.

Give any tag on Pixiv a search and you'll see bad JP artists, they're just bad in different ways from westerners.

>>7610
Eh, maybe there are more that are good at drawing moe shit but I don't look for that art and girly blobs (I assume it's girls but might as well be boys). I noticed that the majority is just way worse at drawing on average. This doesn't mean that great artists don't exists, just that they are way rarer. If the fandom is evenly split between 50% Japanese and 50% westerns I can guarantee you that 90% of the artists I will follow will be the first not the latter. The 10% are great though.
>>7612
Yeah it's often off, even IF they try to immiate the style. They also cannot draw men (men, not boys) to save their lives and usually make them look like girls even when there is no troonwashing involved.

I have such a love/hate relationship with what has been deemed 'dead dove' or dead dove spaces. What is considered proship/dead dove space in theory should be what old fujoism used to be, shipping without caring whether something was immortal or not, just…simply shipping? People who shipped the Ed brothers or the hitachiins didn't need to throw an essay about how they were raped by their brother as a child and how they're projecting their trauma into the ship now leave them alone. You just shipped them because brothers hawt and that was it.
Now almost every space that is for a standard fujo, a proship/dead dove space is:
- Full of gender politics, for some reason? Less shipping, less how shipping dadson shota rape actually helps victims overcome trauma and how it's very revolutionary feminist core
- Horny people 24/7 in such a moidy way that it becomes offputting. Imagine the obnoxiousness of cunnyfags on 4chan but 20x with somehow even more creep vibes than it should. Mind you, I like shota rape incest age gaps whatever else but I don't go "It'd be so fun if this character was such a pedo rapist ♥ I love when my fav is a PEDOPHILE!!!" that is said so unironically
- Basically no media literacy and no real interest for actually wanting to *care* about the ships. This is just a petpeeve of mine but if I like a ship it's because I like the characters and want to discuss shit, I don't wanna hear how you forgot your T-shot today or if you wonder if Character X would get their T-shot. I don't care to listen about your trauma through a ship, I'm not gonna play therapist for you when I want these characters to fuck without thinking that I'm enabling someone's 'coping mechanism'.
I just wanna ship shit, be a weirdo maybe but not have "I LOVE CHILD RAPE!!!" as a badge of honor

>>7609
I think there are a few reasons for western art usually looking different even when it is anime-esque.
>Disney and cartoon influence
>Wanting your own unique style instead of copying anime 100%.
>Japanese people grow up with manga clubs in school, they learn the real techniques for making manga look like manga and they practice by copying art they like. Most western artists don't have this background. The colouring, rendering and linework style used by western artists on a pro level is usually really different. Meanwhile more amateur ones like to do that low contrast soupy brown/red palette. Even Korean and Chinese manhwa/manhua style usually looks different from Japanese because the techniques learned and aesthetic culture are different.
>Homestuck fandom popularized the trend of racebending, making characters fat etc because the characters were 'aracial' and blank canvases (despite the fact that you can see nobody is fat or has textured hair). Then it trickled down and became the norm.

I understand wanting a unique style because I don't want to completely copy anime either, but anime also has a very wide variety of styles. For example, I don't like thin lines and thin lines are very common - but there are manga styles with thick lines too.

>>7629
THIS, all of this especially the second point. I thought I was the only one who noticed how weirdly offputting so-called "profic" spaces had become. I want to have a generally "normal" fandom experience but it's like anyone who self-IDs as "problematic" wants to be as edgy and off-putting as possible. I like my shota incest ships too but is it too much to ask people to treat them like they would vanilla ships? With regular discussions, fanarts, fics and without feeling like everyone's trying to outedge each other? The hornyposting is the worst too. It really does feel like they're trying to imitate lolicons for some reason.
>tfw you're too normal for the freaks and too freaky for the normals

I kinda feel ashamed by what I like. What I enjoy is deemed troonbait regardless how much different it is from ugly TIMs in school girl wear. Not Like I blame these people, Troons are a repulsive lot but I wished my love of GNC semes/ukes wasn't tied to these people. Apologizes if it isn't super venty, just wanted to air out my grievances.

>>7629
I completely agree. My kinks aren't that bad, but I do like rape and incest. It's because people value being perceived a certain way more than the content itself. Self-identified proshippers are almost always TIFs obsessed with self-inserting into a trooned-iut character getting raped. My tinfoil is that gender people have weak identities to begin with, so they have to always have to put on performance around others. They can't just create content. They have to be the biggest baddest most offensive proshipper radqueer

>>7631
>>7633
Honestly, this is why I never mention my fetishes in certain circles. I don't even like rape nor incest but some of the stuff I do like is often too weird or too analogous to certain folks of the TQA+ gang to mention outloud. But If I had to choose, I find I'm the most happy in circles where being an unhinged werido is normal. Sure, you still have moids calling you faggot for liking BL but they ain't doxxing you over that or forcing you to troon to regain your purity.
Somedays I wish there was a online group where I can be myself with other weird girls. No nsfw bans, no moralfagging, no shaming (within reason), just unbridled vibes.

>>7622
There's a lot of trans people in Thailand

>>7634
Same. You cannot ever discuss anything freely if the people around you take fiction too seriously it doesn't matter what. I don't like/care about shota, gang bang or futa, but you either be cool with everything or get never ending infighting because everybody likes different things.

As long as people tag, post their stuff into the appropriate threads or channels and don't pretend that the character they like was canonically trans or cuntboy I am fine. The only good discords I ever found were places that declared to be openly degenerate. They aren't even extreme IMO (most common dark tropes are dubcon and incest), but the members don't try to bring politics into fiction or believe to be better than others for shipping the "right" thing which is nice.
>>7635
I also notice it with Chinese but the reasons and vibes are different. Thai mostly draw cuntboy IMO, but leave the male role otherwise, Chinese on the other hand have an obsession with actually forcing one of the guys into the female role even if it's 100% ooc. But that might be different in other fandoms.

>>7631
>join in on the proud profic parade
>realize they're being obnoxious and weird about it far too late
>it's mostly minors
Man I'm not even that much off the deep end. It's like they pick the edgiest most uncomfortable topics to claim they goon to like dead baby jokes in 2006. Performative, annoying. Even going out of their way to shame antis instead of simply blocking

>>7630
The Disney thing is the most important to keep in mind, I think. I formed a manga club at my elementary school and we needed adult supervision. So I worked with him to learn how to draw comics. Key word here, comics. I was 10-11 or so, and all he had on hand were western comics, and at the time, How to draw Manga books were all we had as well. There was no other reference point for learning how to draw the way they learn in Japan/China/Korea especially when internet wasn't as resource abundant as it is now

>>7640
I feel you nonna. This was the closet I could find for my weeb drawing.

>>7638
>You cannot ever discuss anything freely if the people around you take fiction too seriously it doesn't matter what.
My silly jekyll and hyde story will never see the light of day because the mc literally becomes a man that murders scrotes through effeminate charms kek. The tifs will think I see them as violent murderapes when it was just a self indulgent gooner story…
But anyway, they're probably a bunch of speds who can't divide reality from make believe. It doesn't exist yet fictional characters are given the same treatment as real people.

>>7631
A lot of profic spaces are just edge for the sake of edge. It's either that or the same discourse accounts that talk about the same topics over and over. I hate how fandom has become because no one on either side really knows how to be creative anymore, it's all about points scoring and arguing now.

>>7647
NTA but I blame almost every annoyance in fandoms on the death of creativity.
If someone wants to create but can't because they have the imagination of a sack of potatoes then they might resort to genderbending, edgy shit, bland and flat coffee shop AU shit that bores even its own author or character with the costume of x or from historical period y. The last one is not bad per se but oh how fucking tired I am of it since it's everything I see coming from westerners in my fandoms.

I cannot fathom how people can be that devoid of ideas because it even happens in series and settings with a shitton of potential and endless possibilities. And yet all you see is genderbending and "character standing around, but wearing some stupid shit from a live action I recently watched".

>>7650
Why is it always coffee shop AUs? I wouldn't mind if it was a biting critique of wagie culture but it's feel good cozy drivel.

>>7650
>"character standing around, but wearing some stupid shit from a live action I recently watched"
I've been looking through my old pixiv folder back when I saved everything and the variety of art was so different. Emulating the creator's style, putting characters in literally every situation you could think of. There was so much effort to make art that fed fandoms for years. Even fanfiction back when I was in high school was full of coffee shop AUs (popular mainly because they're as approachable as a kitten and you don't actually need to know how retail works to write it) there were still some insane epics. And I mean it in the classical literary sense. I still remember a KH fic with an edgy take on Sora (named skye lul) who came from a dark future in the KH universe and they had to work together to beat Maleficent. By GOLLY was it likely bad and I will not even try to find it again but I just remember how much fun I had with their realistic takes on Mulan if she locked the fuck in and other Disney characters acting time period appropriate in their response to war time.

>>7655
I miss that type of fanfic. Now everything's that headcanon readerinsert slop.

>>7655
Yes this is what I mean!
I see many fujos (including myself) complaining about short-lived fandoms that disperse the second the series or pairing stops getting new canon content and I am sure it's less about ADHD or having more series to watch/read but creativity.
Back in the old days a fandom could last a decade after the series ended and you would still get new fan-created developments, What-IF routes, future stories, true AUs and a ton of other things.

The canon was just the big bang that gave birth to a new world that fans filled with life afterwards. I am not sure why this is largely gone now. Back when I was into Mass Effect fans wrote whole epics about the post-game events or backstories of characters before the story took place. Two friends I had cross-referenced each others fics and created a whole life story of two characters together. In the end they had like 60 fics or more and I was hyped everytime one of them would release a new hint or short-story to learn more about the events in their life I was still in the dark about. ALL of this without resorting to true SoL. It always implemented their special OPs missions, the military or their private and mental issues in a way.

This is just an example. Those two characters weren't even mains. One of them had two scenes before he died right at the start of the game.