No.3208[View All]
Thread for meta-commentary on trends in the fujoshphere, including but not limited to:
>The recent dearth of fujo-friendly IPs and the overall decline of female-targeted series>Observations and trends about fujo fan activities>Differences in fan culture between Japanese fujos, Korean/Chinese fujos, Western fujos and the rest of the world>Predictions or theories about the BL industryThis is not a thread for pro/anti discourse (
>>2521) or complaining about the genderspecial infestation (
>>541) - threads for those topics already exist.
I was looking at the stats for Comiket 103 and I couldn't help but notice a lack of fujo presence. Picrel is a list of the genre codes and the number of registered circles under them. The genre code is a category that each circle choose upon registration; they can be dedicated to a single franchise (eg 234 Touhou, 331 Kantai Collection, 335 Uma Musume, 222 VTubers) or encompass an entire category (eg 315 Romance, Social games for women which is where games like Ensemble Stars and Twisted Wonderland would fall). Some of them like 600 Reviews/Information or 611 Railways/Travel aren't related to manga/anime at all.
It's obvious that Blue Archive and VTubers swept this Comiket, with mainstays like Kantai Collection, Uma Musume, Idolmaster and Type-Moon ranking high. In other words, all franchises for men. On the other hand, the fujo mainstays like Tiger and Bunny and Touken Ranbu look puny in comparison. Yuri on Ice is a certified fujo classic but it lost its custom genre code last Comiket.
In comparison, the other picrel is a ranking of the most popular series from C89 which was winter 2015. The red bars are female-dominated genres, the blue are male and purple are unisex. From top to bottom: 1) KanColle 2) Touken Ranbu 3) Touhou 4) Idolmaster 5) Haikyuu 6) Kuroko no Basuke 7) Yowamushi Pedal 8) Love Live 9) Tiger and Bunny 10) Attack on Titan 11) Vocaloid 12) Fate series 13) Hetalia 14) Free 15) Blood Blockade Battlefront 16) Splatoon. This was the heyday of Touken Ranbu - it gave juggernauts like Touhou and IM#S a run for their money - and outside obligatory mainstays like KanColle and Idolmaster, fujo favorites dominated the charts.
What happened between 2015 and now? The trend of women (and by extension fujoshi) disappearing from Comiket hasn't gone unnoticed. But it's not as if women are making less doujin, it's that women are flocking to non-Comiket conventions - namely those hosted by the agency AkaBooBoo like Super Comic City. On the other hand, I feel like there is a slump in fujo activity because it's been a while since we've had a fleet of fujo powerhouses trending at the same time (compared to 2015). The mid-2010s wasa good time to be a fujoshi.
No.6506
>>650550 bucks he just said that for woke points. All of the fanart I've seen of this show were ugly old men.
No.6507
>>6505It's good to have confirmation that all of the pandery stuff he said was overcompensation for a history of sexual assault. I'm always mildly suspicious of men like this.
No.6509
>>6505>>6504Sorry, I'm super ignorant because I am not in this fandom, but doesn't the book literally call them both "he?" Ho does the author suddenly switch to something else without anyone in the fandom asking him why he wrote the characters that way if he didn't want them to be seen as male?
No.6512
>>6509I think a lot of it is just from knowing your audience and flat out saying "no they are male" would cut into your bottom line. A more generous interpretation is just that it was the 90s and unless the work was explicitly marketed as queer there was no point in getting into it because it would be poison for your sales. They do say that Aziraphale looks pretty fruity though.
No.6515
>>6509The books did, but that statment doesn't surprise me Gaimen did the same rewriting with Sandman, it's not really new though he was always super progressive even back in the 90s.
No.6519
>>6497I saw them on CNN and BBC so I don't know what normal news would be compared to those. Wonka is a candy brand that lifts its name from Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, some guys made a scam event themed after it but they made the entire thing with chatGPT and left actors to fend for themselves when kids showed up.
>>6504I thought it was because Gaiman said they don't love each other in "the romantic or sexual sense that humans do". Therefore it can't be gen, but it can't be m/m either.
No.6520
>>6467It's drooling level of retard, because many of those are drawn/book characters whose race is never specified. What criteria do they even use to label characters being this or that race? A character with green hair (Midoriya from Boku no Hero Academia) is 'Asian' even though, as far as I'm aware, green hair doesn't naturally occur in humans. Bakugou has blond hair and is likewise labelled 'Asian' - does it mean that I can self-declare my race as 'Asian' too, since I have blond hair? Race is whatever you want it to be and feelings in your head, Rachel Dolezal style, innit.
It's racist as fuck if you consider that every Japanese sounding name = Asian. I guess mixed race/other than Asian race people being born in Japan and having Japanese names is blasphemy? We are living in the 21st century, but AO3 is still stuck in the 19th.
>>6503>Because it's interesting to see the distibution?You like seeing fake stats? What's so interesting about them?
No.6522
>>6444why are people getting upset over this
No.6525
>>6519I am not Anglo so I don't watch UK or US news since both places belong to a different continent. I casually read BBC reports but only about events that's big enough to make it into international news or if it's something that lands on my twitter timeline. Some mentally ill online addicts doing stupid things isn't relevant enough to for that, especially not during times wars and other serious shit.
>>6522Personally I am not upset, I never liked the popular AO3 ships or at least not during the last decade. I am just analysing. I don't even know most of the things that made it onto the list though, dropped all of the live action and consider gacha and MMO shit, so there are only two series I even watched/played/finished.
No.6526
>>6520Anon, you have to be stupid to insist that characters with Japanese names written by Japanese authors aren't 99% of the time intended to be Japanese. If a character is meant to be seen as another race it's usually clearly stated or obvious from their name, like the aliens in Gintama who all have Japanese names for some reason, even the ones from China Planet. Fantasy world characters are another exception because it's not Earth but Japanese names are often used for familiarity.
Anime hair colors are just anime hair colors. It gets extra weird when you have a blond Japanese character and then a super obvious blond haired and blue eyed 'foreigner' is introduced and their hair color is remarked on.
No.6532
>>6526See? You are one of those retards who didn't understand any point I was making. Let me spell it out for you clearly. Race =/= ethnicity =/= citizenship.
Just how sheltered are you?
No.6533
>>6532Nah, you're the one being weirdly agressive. If the series doesn't explicitly state the character isn't Asian they are Asian. While most series have crazy hair colors the show will always make it very clear when the character is a foreign exchange student. Usually combined with sterotypical Brithish/American/German/ect personality traits.
No.6534
>>6532>>6533And let me clarify yes I get the point you are making. But when the character has an asian name, lives in Japan, and the show doesn't go out of it's way to clarify that their grandfather was a US Soldier then its a massive leap to assume their race isn't meant to be asian even if they don't have physical Asian features.
No.6535
>>6503Pray tell what is so interesting about the stats of "race" in shipping besides trying to use it to call shippers, specifically fujos, racist
No.6537
>>6535I already answered your question in the post you're replying to. I also don't see anyone calling people racist except you. I wasn't going to respond but if you're going to repeatedly ask the same question I might as well state that you're more race-obsessed than any other poster here. It's no different than a gender, average fic length, copyright year, or any other "matter of fact" stat and it isn't accusatory unless you're self-conscious about what you're dhipping.
No.6539
>>6532nta but i wonder what specific nerve has been hit here
No.6540
>>6472Homo shit in the 90
>Character is not a man! it's not gay!>Fandom: fuck offHomo shit in the 2020
>Character is not a man! It's not gay>Fandom Yassss No.6541
In all fairness, I get that trying to force race statistics in a chart about fanfics where race can often times be vague could end up being more fuel to shit on fujoshi. I can't think of any reason to include it that doesn't come down to representation discourse.
No.6542
>>6537Your response shows ignorance in how they placed that specific data in order to call out how much m/m and "white shipping" there is
>you're more race-obsessed than any other poster hereAnd you're being obtuse on what the true purpose of that specific stat is when it was initially created.
No.6543
>>6532So do you accept that danmei characters are all Chinese because the majority of them have black hair and you rarely ever see anime hair colors? I don't get your argument. There are anime that give every character the same generic features, as well as ones that make it more obvious what ethnicity the character is supposed to be. Do you need everyone to be drawn like a caricature or something? Or is your problem 'assuming' that a Japanese character is from Japan when they could have been born in… Canada or something?
But just because any given anime character could *technically* be a kid of foreign immigrants born and raised in Japan with a Japanese name, doesn't mean that was the creator's intention.
No.6547
>>6543Not that nonna, but names matter to me. When you encounter someone in real life you also assume their ethnicity based on their name. If a character is called Akira Shirokawa or something he's Japanese to me. Not that it matters.
No.6549
Imo race is a pretty silly thing to obsess over, I'd only be interested if they kept fantasy races involved but I bet they're putting "white" and "black" instead of "elf" or "Hyrulean" which is lame.
No.6557
This isn't about fujo series alone but I hate how I feel like there is a trend for the pace of action and war or fantasy series to be faster and faster in an attempt to keep the inattentive tiktok audience interested. It feels like even successful manga are rushing things and the relationships, especially the relationships among side characters, are always the first ones to suffer from this, since the core story and MC are prioritized.
Can we really not get more slowburn action? I believe that it's one of the reasons for why Frieren is a huge success. A series that has time to convey the worldbuilding to us and explore characters and emotions.
The fact that even Obari talked about merging content of multiple episodes together into one because younger people are tiktok addicted and used to short videos and fast-paced developments worries me even more. I don't WANT fast pacing. Sometimes there are great series where a lot of shit is happening, like TTGL, Luluco or Hellsing Ultimate. But their directors knew what they were doing and how to include everything they want to tell even with a lot of shit happening everywhere. Most fail to do this or just outright ignore half of the characters to rush the plot instead and I hate it.
No.6559
>>6525>Some mentally ill online addicts doing stupid thingsThey weren't though, both events were entirely normalfags, that's why they got on international news and the general public cared compared to nerd conventions.
No.6563
>>6541Yeah I don’t really have a leg in this issue, but I know the entire reason that category exists is solely because of the “fujos are racist” discourse otherwise, the category really only works well for realistic live action originals and rpf. And even then, I wish they’d use ethnicity instead of race.
No.6615
>>6613What even is 9-1-1? I only ever see this title when these lists are published. Bizarre. Besides some HP ships nothing I'm interested in made the list.
No.6616
>>6615I've posted this opinion before but it feels like I'm looking into some bizarro reality whenever I see how popular some live action tv series is that I never heard of before. I do know about bridgerton but only because a guy in there voices a videogame catboy I love. That being said it's also not surprising I never hear about these shows cause I am very firmly in the anime and videogames bubble so I don't follow anyone on social media who's into this. Actually speaking of anime, I never got why Bungou stray dogs is so big here.
No.6618
>>6613I’m surprised to see The Rookie on this list. I didn’t think it was that popular.
>>6616As someone who does watch live action series often, I also had never heard about 9-1-1 before seeing these lists.
No.6619
>>6444I hate this list because the author admitted they only do it to remind people how racist and sexist they think fujos are. Their race categories are fucking stupid.
No.6620
>>6503I agree with you anon. It's very much a 'that's cool to know' stat. More information is literally never useless. Some people just look for reasons to be mad at twitter/tumblr
No.6624
>>6620>Some people just look for reasons to be mad at twitter/tumblrWe get mad because the creator of said list literally admitted they created it to call out fujos as racists. So excuse us for feeling miffed about including that category
No.6633
>>6631How is Chuuya/Dazai still going so strong? I wasn't even aware the BSD fandom was still so active.
No.6679
>>6615>>66579-1-1 had a pretty big fandom meltdown recently where one of the characters was revealed to be canonically bi, got together with a random dude, and then broke up with him. I suspect that's part of why a lot of people were writing fanfiction about it.
No.6682
>>6633Harry Potter is still up there and those books ended almost 20 years ago.
No.6689
>>6682nta but HP is still one of the largest media franchises in history
No.6690
I think Tiger and Bunny was the only series I ever liked that made it into the top 10 of AO3 unless Jojo made once, I am not sure but I think not.
No.6698
>>6691I don't really see the oedipal vibe, mentor/pupil yes, but while Anakin is a rebellious teen and Obi-wan could be viewed as a frustrated parent they do come off more like brothers than anything else especially in the opening to the second film where they are having a playful time together. Thanks for the reply though.
No.6720
>>6718Never post boobi-wan kanobi again please.
No.6721
>>6720lol, great name.
>>6718Absolutely bizarre fan perception. I don't mind huge pecs like the last one, but the moobs are bit much.