No.12715[View All]
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>>10865Life's not fair, especially for fujoshi. Post your frustrations and things that are on your mind, no matter how harsh it sounds, about advantages everyone else has that fujoshi don't get.
No.13123
>>13122what do they even mean? it's just a roundabout way of talking. The thing is shounen is for young men, and most young men aren't gay, hence the rarity of gay couples.
No.13124
>>13123This, if you want canon gay, you have to go somewhere where it’s even on the menu.
No.13125
>>13122>Shonen BL is like seeing the ingredients for cherry pie(sasunaru) laid out on the counter, thinking "oh boy cherry pie, can't wait!" and then before it goes in the oven the cook dumps it in the trash and takes a fat steaming shit in the pie tin (Boruto).Kek Boruto is so bad that I would ignore it even as a hetshipper. I just pretend that Boruto is a bad ending and let the fic writers make Naruto into what it should have been (not that I'm necessarily asking for canon NSN). I seriously think of dj/ff as "DLC" for the original IP.
No.13126
The only shonen I know that has an endgame canon gay couple that involves the MC is Blue Flag, but it also literally was only confirmed in the final chapter where a several year timeskip happens that was like yeah I broke up with the girl I was with even though the whole story was making a big deal about us being together. There are very very vague hints about the MC reciprocating before that but apparently the mangaka was going to make them even more subtle and I'm like bro how??? That's more of a philosophical story anyway
No.13127
>>13124Canon homo alone isn't a sell to me. I want to read action manga with shit like ninjas and sorcerers and then I want my ship to kiss after 40+ volumes of dancing around each other. VNs and danmei kind of fill this gap but there are only so many of them that appeal to my non-BL wants in fiction. Like, I'm never watching the hockey show because I know those 2 dudes fuck on screen. My general tastes come first.
>>13125>I seriously think of dj/ff as "DLC" for the original IP.This is the compromise I live with. With popular shonen there will always be at least one god-tier fanfic I can treat as the actual ending or I can bake the pie myself. I admit I'm kind of "spoiled" because of this so if my posts come off as whiny I get it.
>>13126I read this knowing what the endgame was and kept on waiting for it to pick up
and am still kind of annoyed I had to read what was essentially a full run of a m/m/f love triangle that "ends" with m/f but no just kidding it's m/m!!! Insane! No.13129
>>13128holy shit venterra I haven't seen that in a long time.
The fact that KH is gay as fuck, without directly confirming anything is what makes it so good. I agree with anon that canon homo is not a sell. I don't want romance at al personally. I want an action story where romance is not a heavy focus and the feelings between two characters are explored beyond sex. Romance is a writing trap. But thinking of Terra going genuinely psycho over the idea of Ven getting hurt, knowing that they lived together as students and would die for one another- there's the draw.
Birth By Sleep was probably my gateway into non-fluff related ships because of Vanitas.
No.13134
>>13123whenever someone says they want “shonen BL” it’s just a roundabout way of saying they want more action BL (or fujobait)
No.13135
>>13134I feel like with BL, the plot is a sideshow to the romance, so I can definitely understand wanting something where the plot takes center stage and the romance is a side plot.
No.13137
>>13127I have my many issues with that series and that is one of them. I get obviously the gay guy doesn't want his friend to know which is why it's dealt with at the end but from the girl who had a crush on him saying it would be easier for her if she was a guy (forgetting gay people exist) and his friend beating the shit out of him for being gay, he is not having a good time at all LMAO. Don't even get me started on how the author would make characters act like the way fans/the audience would instead of people or like him making characters that would use the criticisms that he foresaw some fans using.
Essentially when the bald guy conveniently revealed he was molested by a man to explain his homophobia after his entire character being about him bothering a girl with his unrequited romantic feelings for her despite her saying she only wants to be friends. So now he suddenly cares about predatory behavior lmao. And then the author made the gay guy's other friend's gf & her friend say "isn't it convenient to say rn you were molested when you hurt your friend for being gay?" and have them be told that's horrible to say to make it seem fucked up for the reader to think that despite 100% being the case lmao. Don't even get me started on the female population of the school being fujos who want the FMC to get out of the way and for the two MCs to get together like what…? In a RURAL school lmao??? I'm glad it exists but there are some parts that make me mad. Don't even get me started on
that one female character ending up with a man. I get bisexual women exist but we see her have a long-string of COLLEGE AGED BFS THAT DON'T LAST while she's a highschooler and not one successful relationship with a woman like are you fr. The only copium is that her "husband" is FtM since apparently they're drawn without an Adam's apple unlike all the other male characters.>>13134For me it's not just action BL I just wish both characters in a pairing were fleshed out outside of the relationship and you don't have one who has a personality and then only exists to simp over the MC after they fall in love. This is my issue with danmei tbh, why is the shou allowed to have complexity but as soon as the seme falls in love it's either domesticated househusband or rapey warlord. Or sometimes both but again having little motivation outside of the MC. Only if it's some mutual bs like SasuNaru could I tolerate it. Even if shonens are MC-centered that lick his boots, other male characters are usually focused on the plot unless it's haremshit.
No.13138
>>13137>This is my issue with danmei tbh, why is the shou allowed to have complexity but as soon as the seme falls in love it's either domesticated househusband or rapey warlord. I don't think it's that widespread and I don't even read much danmei.
No.13139
>>13137>MC-centered that lick his boots>unless it's haremshitthat’s like half of all shounen though
No.13144
Wonder how yumes are hated back then, was it because their self inserts were insufferably Mary sue, all male characters fight to the death just to fuck her and shat on fem charas who were too close to their husbando?
Back in DeviantArt, people used to bullied yumes viciously, even making hateart of her, that was in Naruto fandom afaik.
No.13145
>>13144People really hated Mary Sues and blatant self-inserts back then, at least a quarter of a reason why Chris-chan got so bullied back then was in part over how blatantly he was self-inserting onto everything. Self-inserters have never been liked in any fandom.
But over years, with tumblrites and the worst of tumblrites moving to twitter spreading the whole "cringe culture is dead, be cringe and free", yumeing (and by extension self-inserting) slowly stopped being less stigmatized as (at least in this case) being a yume was seen as being better than being a fujo, which is what added to a bigger acceptance of being a yume. Yumes "don't hurt anyone", they don't fetishize romanticize caramelize localize w/e 'muh gayppl' like fujos do. So it's a healthier and better alternative to engage with fandom as a yume than be a nasty proshipper fujo or whatever.
Oh yeah, the whole "proship" shit added to it too.
In other words, you really can chalk it up to fujohate by yumes becoming actually more accepted overall, and anything that makes fujos look worse is better.
No.13146
Just saw three fujohate posts in a row on xitter. There's no hope fujos are losing the civil war very hard.
No.13148
Is it alright to be a yumejoshi when I feel lonely? I consider myself to be a fujoshi first and foremost, but I have always been very lonely because i'm just too afraid to date men after bad experiences in my life. So sometimes I like shipping myself with 2D men to comfort myself. However I never in my life would bully a fujoshi or think that yumejoshis are better than fujoshis for any reasons. You anons think i'm a decent person or do you hate me for having selfish fantasies sometimes?
No.13150
>>13148I was a yume once but now i can't imagine myself with anyone so i turned to shipping
No.13152
>>13148There's nothing wrong with being a yume. You are hurting nobody. Yume and fujo wars are childish. I think it's retarded when yumes shit on fujos, but I really just want us all to coexist. You are fine. There is no shame.
No.13154
>>13148It's fine, sometimes I fantasize about being with my character crushes sexually and romantically and have even made sonas that I keep to myself. Unfortunately a lot of yume spaces are filled with very entitled and rude people that shit on fujos and whatever else they deem "problematic" so I try to stay away from people who make it a huge part of their online presence.
No.13155
>>13154>very entitled and rude people that shit on fujos and whatever else they deem "problematic"My theory is that there is a strong correlation between moralfaggotry and toxic yumeism because some yumes will literally try to imagine themselves involved with anything "problematic", get grossed out, and then become huge moralfags.
No.13156
>>13152Some of us never grew out of fighting over dolls. It's so stupid to me, I never understood it. Not just the yume/fujo wars but also shipping wars and top/bottom discourse.
I don't care if someone finds a character hot in a specific context that I don't. I don't see why anyone else would. It's all just fanart in the end.
But some communities are rancid with it. LADS in particular comes to mind, although its not exclusive to them. When I see this behaviour, I can't help but think these people have some sort of strange parasocial relationship with their anime boys. Like they think he's a real person, and if you ship him with someone else, they take it as an attempt to forcibly change his personality.
It's just all very bizarre to me. More people should be on meds.
No.13159
>>13152We need more peak yumes who see fujos as sisters, not enemies
When I was tween. I used to (at least tried but failed) yume with Back Cat's Train Heartnet & Roxas, what turns me to fujo is when I saw Deathnote yaoi.
Ever since then I'm no longer yume but fujo for years even to adulthood, the only Yuri I read so far is Shitsurakuen..most people hated the ending though, Claudine by Riyoko Ikeda & I accidentally read shoujo ai written by classic shoujo mangaka who wrote Gals!
In a way Yuri can be as enjoyable as yaoi, as long as you don't encounter yuritards
No.13160
>>13159I enjoy classic yuri, but most modern stuff is infested by troons who want to jerk off over middle school girls kissing, and is thus gross. Femslash is usually populated by more sane fans; they tend to be more invested in writing/drawing and less in just consuming stuff, so they don't get into as many fights on twitter.
I can only see fujos and yumes getting along if they aren't shipping the same guy. I can't imagine a Sasuke yume is too crazy about Sasunaru, whereas a sasunaru and a sakurahinata wouldn't have such an obvious conflict.
No.13163
>>13160The "non-sharing" yumes tend to be the insane ones. They get really offended over other yumes who ship themselves with the same character or any ship involving the character they love with someone that isn't themselves. It reeks of 2000s "this character is MINE and you can't have him" deviantart fangirl faggotry. I cannot imagine engaging with media and fandom this way, it seems incredibly unhealthy.
The yumes who are fine with sharing tend to be more chill, at least in my experience.
No.13164
>>13163I wonder how non-sharing yumes if they see hetship, especially if canon female is abusive tsundere while their husbando portrayed as dumb punching bag simp?
Hetships tend to drawn to ship war.
No.13167
>>13164I mean, the Rei vs Atsuka and Tifa vs Aeris fans are still at each other's throats, two decades later. I don't think I've ever seen a m/m ship ever get to that point of animosity.
No.13169
>>13167>I don't think I've ever seen a m/m ship ever get to that point of animosity.Voltron?
No.13170
>>13169Still funny to me that the singular instance of this happening with a m/m ship went on to irradiate western fandom as we know it for the next decade. I don't even see people argue about Sheith/Klance anymore, unlike the two mentioned by
>>13167>>13137>I'm glad it exists but there are some parts that make me mad. This is also where I fall but being reminded about the spoilers pissed me off all over again lmao
No.13171
>>13098>>13135This is how I feel about it too, I prefer stories where the actual romance is secondary, and most media outright tagged as BL doesn't fit that. It sucks because having a BL tag essentially means the focus is going to be on the romance itself, but not having a BL tag means that having anything beyond subtext is going to be difficult. I wish that BL wasn't its' own 'niche' and that there were more anime and manga with actual plots where the main male lead simply happens to have a bf instead of a gf. I usually just end up settling for series that have good fujobait and somewhat low chance of a het jumpscare ending.
If we're talking about something recent and popular, then I think Blue Lock is pretty good since it has a proper plot, a lot of cute and shippable boys, and the subtext is actually more than what you'd expect. The only bad things about it are the animation for the s2 of the anime and the obnoxious dudebro audience that bitches about fujos, despite this very obviously being a series for us.
No.13174
>>13171I like BL with a developed supporting cast and strong non-romance plot but I don’t get the want for the MC’s relationship to be some side plot. Even in non-romance it’s best when the MC’s relationship is woven into and important to the plot itself.
No.13175
>>13174I mean, ideally, it should be like any other series, with a plot and a romance that feels natural and not tacked on, just with gay characters. I feel like, of the mainstream stuff, Yuri on Ice has probably been the closest.
No.13176
>>13167>two decades laterAnon, it's been three decades now…
No.13180
>>13164they self insert like with sakura from naruto or akane from ranma, I mean you can clearly see the sasusaku and rankane fanarts just ooze with self inserting/AU vibes. Sasuke is not the punching bag, but from the sasusaku fanarts I have seen, they basically all pretend that Sasuke in reality is obsessed with Sakura, and he will drop to her knees at her command etc
It's obviously just Sasuke yumes that live throu Sakura.
>>13163being "non sharing" is almost normalized at this point in fandom, they even make lists on what characters they are ok with "sharing" or not
No.13187
>>13180Main characters are just cat-nip for self-inserters. In Naruto it was, well–Naruto and Sakura. They were incredibly insane and vocal.
I remember Narusaku shippers being less aggressive than Sasusaku shippers, and Naruto being a punching bag being less a factor than Sakura being the smart girl for them (lot of overlap with Hermione from HP at that time). It was mostly Yume who didn't like Sasuke, especially after he became a bad guy or wanted Sakura to grow out of her schoolgirl crush. Whereas Sasusaku was either about having your crush reciprocate, having a trophy husband, or fixing the bad boy. Either way, Narusaku vs. Sasusaku was probably nothing but a war between fundamentally different types of yumes (maybe the same as Hermione/Harry and Hermione/Draco), whereas Narusaku and Naruhina were pretty much yumes vs. otakus. Naruhina shippers who often sided with Sasusaku shippers. One, for one obvious reason (not conflict between the ships). And two, Naruhina was about having a girl pine after you and a trophy wife. It was the Sasusaku, but for incels.
No.13194
>>13112It's this. Not everyone likes poly and I don't care about a relationship that's off screen just because it's canon. I don't want poly or cheating or whatever, I just don't care about this character who wasn't even in the story but I have to care about because fandom made them a bland "bad as hell" OC who I never liked because those characters become too perfect.
>>13113>>13115Adrian is literally never addressed as "she" anywhere (except maybe in some dubs due to censorship) so I don't know why people like
>>13110 always call them "she" unless they're just this used to female characters only being there for a no no homo. But like I said, even if Adrian was a guy I still wouldn't care about them. I care about Grace and Rocky's dynamic since it's the one we actually see and it affects the story, and a side relationship with a boring fanon Sue character isn't interesting. I'd rather Rocky and Adrian break up or just be poly but Adrian not be in the ship because it's just a non character being like dead weight into the ship I actually want to read about.
No.13202
Well that settles it now the entire xitter is parroting the same that fujos are homophobic and misogynistic especially asian fujoshi even thought it isn't even true. Wish i could learn japanese so my tl wouldn't be that stupid
No.13205
>>13202the west fandom is a dead cause, full of zoomers with the attention span of a 2 year old, we just have to wait until they grow out of it and cringe.
I don't really care about being judged by people like that
No.13206
>>13205And AI crap is making it worse.
No.13209
>>13205>despite more schooling than everDoesn't mean much if school programs suck ass and if these kids don't pay attention in class or when doing their homework tbh. The internet is just one factor in this even if it's one of the biggest ones. To go back to the topic I agree with you. I don't really see myself as being part of one or several fandoms, the most I do is maybe go to cons irl sometimes, look up release dates for episodes, movies, books, video games, etc. directly thanks to official publishers' social media accounts and retweeting art I like. I only truly interact with others on here and lc from time to time and that's it.
>>13202>Wish i could learn japanese so my tl wouldn't be that stupidUnfortunately on twitter, even if you decide that the auto translate feature could help you intetact with Japanese fans, grok barely works compared to google translate back in the days, and the algorithm was changed for the search feature and the fyp to prioritize tweets based on your localisation. I still have plenty of Japanese and Korean tweets in my fyp but since these updates a few months ago I have way more retarded normalfag Japanese tweets on my fyp, mostly anachan tweets, politics and random normies posting cats or what they ordered in small coffee shops I will never go to. Maybe a VPN could help.
No.13211
>>13202>Wish i could learn japaneseJoin me anon. It's fun :))))
>>13209>I only truly interact with others on hereIt's so lonely being a 30+ fujo. The fact that I can vividly remember when fandom was better is haunting me.
No.13212
>>13159>>13156I didn't think about yumes until they became a bigger subculture and now thanks to games like LADS they're always feel bold enough to speak on fujos. Barely any of them mind their own business and they're the ones generating most of the anti fujoshi drama online.
>>13202Fujos really lost and I also believe the fact that there's less media actually pandering to us is why.
>>13205Gen Alpha isn't going to be any better, they're raised with an even worse algorithm. I think we're definitely cooked as older gens start aging out of fandoms, and the only people who actually have the energy to run fandoms or drive discourse being zoomers who all think like this.
No.13214
>>12869>like some cute PHM art>algo immediately floods me with PHM/mark movie artI HATE MIGRATORY SLASH FANDOM I HATE MIGRATORY SLASH FANDOM
No.13215
>>13211>It's so lonely being a 30+ fujo. The fact that I can vividly remember when fandom was better is haunting me.Reading back through old LJ comms and message boards is legitimately depressing. Modern internet is a pale shadow of what it was.
No.13228
>>13226>Doesn't help that I'm having a hard time finding those who are really into my OTP. Ahh, I wish we brought back communities for these kinds of things. That was you could tell who actually likes your otp and who doesn't.Depends a bit on what you mean by this. I'm somewhat in a similar situation although there are a couple people "interested" in my ship every here and there but they either *also* like my NOTP or are just those kinds of people who ship anything (and have no real passion for anything, just consume). In which case, I make it very clear I want to ONLY talk to genuine shippers of my ship ONLY (And it has gotten me shit because the NOTP shippers go "wow how dare you deny us also like this ship you're so toxic". Well sorry I don't know why you feel so bothered that you're pushed away from the rareship when you have plenty fucking content to consume of your vastly popular OTP)
No.13230
I hate it when moids try to put their friendships on the same level as the soulbound M/M ships just to make out fujos to be crazy. I'm friends with guys/have discussed with mutuals what their friendships with other guys are like and it's literally nothing close as to what, say, Narusasu or Satosugu have and it's borderline offensive that dudebros would compare their friendships to ships of that calibre. Every time their friendships just come down to some shit like, "yeah we just talk about whatever we're doing at the moment and politics and a bit about work sometimes idk". HELL, half of the time they don't even know the other's girlfriend's name or even her existence at times. Like I understand it's not as though we see animu bishies talk about that shit either but these guys are the type to dip from the group as soon as they get a gf and yet act like they'd go to the ends of the earth for each other… it's truly laughable.
No.13231
>>13230When one of them compared his friendship with other guys to Gojo and Geto on twitter once I do remember even other guys saying if it's truly that similar he may need to question himself a little bit. Especially because of that infamous scene in JJK0 where Gojo still remembers Geto's scent after 10 years of never meeting him again. I can't get angry at these guys, I just find them laughable especially when season 2 started a few of them apologized for not believe fujoshi when they called satosugu gay as fuck based on the manga chapters that weren't adapted yet.
As for sasunaru, I dropped the manga before the gayest scenes between them existed but didn't Kishimoto used his own relationship with his twin brother as a basis to write Sasuke and Naruto's relationship? Which is NOWHERE near comparable to a regular friendship between guys either. These two guys are literally clones of each other and grew up developing the exact same interests and getting the exact same job to the point where back when 666 Satan started everyone assumed it was plagiarizing Naruto until people learned its author was Kishimoto's twin brother and felt stupid for questioning the similar art styles. kek how do regular friends compare themselves to that without feeling retarded?
No.13232
>>13230If any of my boyfriends had a sasunaru level "friendship" I would not have dated them past the point of figuring out I'm the third wheel. I always feel bad for the canon girl in most shonen ships because I know she's not #1 in that boy's life.