/ffs/ - Fujo Fandom Sperging

>>12097
I genuinely didn't remember it but I had a look and I figured out what happened. There was that shitpost on page ten, but before that the doomposters started whining that Pokemon hasn't had gay ships since SwSh and someone said that SuMo's story was "only about Lillie and Lusamine" and implied Guzma's only ship was with Lusamine or Chicken-chan. So I opened my Guzma folder to pick out a fanart of one of the eight gay Guzma ships I've collected fanart of to reply with, and I might have gotten a little distracted, sent a load to a friend and then an essay about how Gamefreak surrounded him with rivals, childhood friends, mentor figures, womb tattoo bestowing deities etc. in at least three different age ranges, just tons of people all connected to Guzma in some way or another who make viable ships if you want, and yet there's enough fanart to make a folder of him with Lysander. GiovanniGuzma was a meme even before Rainbow Rocket happened, but somehow eastern fandom went fucking crazy for shipping Guzma with any and all of the villain team leaders. Including their pikachu forms from the PokeCen promo. Though admittedly the PokeSpe ending does lend itself to Guzma making croissants and I do like the patisserie studies in Kalos idea for him.

So I was way too distracted by the "waaah there's no gay, stop, the canon isn't gay, you're not allowed to enjoy this" posters and talking about boys to really notice that one post. I mean the whole thread was being derailed by /v/ no homo doomposting so I was skimming past tons. Dumb baits after bump limit are nothing compared to people completely fucking the thread up at 380 posts just to kill it. My experience is still that homothread users shit where they eat to police fellow fujos. Not to support het ships, but to shut up anyone they don't like.

>>12107
I searched up Guzma because I had no context for this other than it being Pokémon and I was actually surprised by how he ended up looking like kek though I like that type as the bottom. Could you give us an example of your collect Guzma fanart?

I HATE the term fujoshi becoming mainstream and having articles written on us that link to Ao3 fics, normalfags get out. I don't know if Heated Rivalry is good but I feel like it's gonna create big damage to the fujo spaces as a whole
https://archive.is/hYxXp

>>12113
Just have to bear it like… LoTR book fans when Peter Jackson hit.

>>12113
I know that the pandemic already contributed to a wave of them invading our spaces without bothering to learn proper fandom etiquette but I imagine this certainly won't help.
>>12114
I was thinking "Is this how Marvel comic book fans felt when the MCU got big?"

>>12113
Gatekeeping is nearly impossible nowadays. I'm almost glad I'm not that involved in online fandoms anymore at that point. It just keeps getting worse everyday and it's not even like making slash and the word "fujoshi" more mainstream will have positive side effects to compensate for the cancer that will happen like maybe more and better releases.

>>12115
>I was thinking "Is this how Marvel comic book fans felt when the MCU got big?"
You have no idea how mad I was how Stony got thrown to the sideways for those vapid normiefag Stuckyfags that invaded.

>>12117
I was into Stony thanks to the very first MCU movies and Tony and Steve arguing all the time and I also resent Stucky for overshadowing Stony. I never read the comics so maybe I should someday but I keep hearing mixed opinions.

>>12117
>>12118
I think the body horror and angst amd humanist themes of western superheros has so much untapped yaoi potential… I've actually been trying to read from western comics to give my original story some spice

>>12117
>>12118
>fellow forsaken Stony fans
I’ll never forget when Stony was still the top ship. I didn’t get into them until the MCU but man I loved reading Ultimates fic. 616 ones were good too. They were all great.

>>12118
Stucky really wasn't and still isn't that shippy in the comics. That's why I was very asshurt when Stuckyfags polluted the marvel fujo scene. Stony was so good in the Cival War comics

>>12113
Finally gave this a read through, starts with a decent recap of BL and slash history, goes on about why women like it, goes on about how it's not representative of the true gay experience, blah blah blah
But pic related caught my eye! YoI was an anime-original, you dolt!! DIE

>>12122
I don't give a fuck about the true gay experience or gay men's feelings plus fujoshi has been a term in western fandom for about 30 years now, not over the past decade. They couldn't even talk to a fujoshi? I hate journalists. Such a lazy article.

>>12113
It's kind of annoying but as long as filters/blocks continue to function on Ao3 I'm not that worried. Maybe it's because I'm mostly a weeb but a lot of this Migratory Slash Fandom stuff just doesn't reach me unless it gets dragged here for the spectacle (which I appreciate, it's good to be informed).
>>12116
>it's not even like making slash and the word "fujoshi" more mainstream will have positive side effects to compensate for the cancer that will happen
I think it's just gonna be a bunch of higher budget but derivative "look they're homos now make with the fujodollars!!!" 3dpd type shit. Planned canon homo western media just feels like chewing cud. I want something as world-shattering as, like, "what if SasuNaru had been canon?" If it's not on that tier I would rather just read fanfiction.

>>12122
So many things are factually incorrect in just this screenshot it's insane:
>shojo with BL elements, but BL manga are either actual shojo manga or josei manga because shojo isn't a genre, it's a target demographic, literally "manga for girls"
>Tokyo Babylon isn't dystopian, maybe the writer got it mixed up with X but even then it's not really dystopian, it's more like an end of the world scenario
>as you said, Yuri on Ice is an original anime and I have no clue how anyone could have made this mistake
>fujoshi was used online for much more than a decade among English speaking fans, before Yuri on Ice was a thing

>>12113
I just opened the article and don't even know where to begin with how terrible the first three paragraphs are.
>>12124
Canon homo western shit is shit because the males are never attractive + it's never self-indulgent enough towards the audience (women) + it's always too concerned with the true and honest gay experience + it's never edgy or interesting. Almost always two ugly male leads in a Hallmark movie scenario. Give me more Hannigram-type stuff or an interesting dynamic with attractive males please.

But there's such a vacuum for western yaoi that Heartstopper and Heated Rivalry become incredibly successful
>>12125
Plus the random reference to a meme tweet and some random saying that's where the resurgence (literally what??) came back.

>>12127
These screenshots are so cancerous I refuse to believe it's real. And our spaces are going to be ruined by these people.

>some random saying that's where the resurgence (literally what??) came back
Yeah I was like "bitch who?!" because seriously, is this an article or some random blog post?

>>12124
>"look they're homos now make with the fujodollars!!!" 3dpd type shit
If we're going to have actual queerbaiting with ugly real men you can count me out. The idiots who complained about the alleged queerbaiting in BBC Sherlock and Supernatural will regret their words once they will see it can get worse.

>>12128
Yeah this article is so bad beyond belief. I guess you have to be integrated by Aidens and journalists about being a TERF if you ever become a successful author in the Anglosphere now.

>>12129
>Aiden who is actually named Aiden
I know its a stereotype for a reason but it still sends me for a loop kek

>>12129
Seriously though, what is wrong with your brain if you think that having the hots for something means you have to become it???

fuck me I wrote integrated instead of interrogated
>>12131
wanting to be something (while masturbating) means you actually are something, duh. no way you can ever be a boring straight.

>>12129
This feels like the second coming of those articles in the mid-2000s about most fujoshi being lesbians who only liked 'feminized' men.

>>12127
The 'gay experience' is part of why I rarely get in to western things. Having media targeted towards legitimately gay people is important too, but most normie audiences can't tell the difference and lump everything together under the same umbrella. The author trying to distance herself from the series' fandom origins also leaves a bad taste in my mouth, since it implies there's something shameful about shipping or fanworks.

>>12129
God that last line feels so insidious. I was never interested in red white and royal blue even before I knew the author was a TIF because I just got annoying vibes from it and this proves me right.
>>12127
>there's such a vacuum for western yaoi
I seriously don’t get how there are still people who won’t watch something that’s not on a streaming service. Even if they don’t want to go on piracy site there’s still live action BL shows put directly on youtube. it can’t be just a refusal of foreign shows because they’ll watch stuff like squid game on netflix. it really is a streaming service dependence. I also feel like the western public has some sort of collective amnesia or something when every new gay show or movie is suddenly “the first ever” and “breaking every boundary”.

>>12117
God as someone who got into Stony from the comics seeing a bunch of Stucky normies from the MCU calling it a "crackship" made me rage. At the end of it the MCU fucked over every possible yaoi that could have come from those movies anyway because all those actors were uncomfortable with their characters being perceived as homo.

>>12121
>>12120

I couldn't get in to Stony in the MCU, which is a shame because in the comics they have the perfect level of tension esp in the Civil War run. IMO they portrayed Steve and Bucky's relationship with a lot more angsty longing in the movies, so I preferred that despite never really thinking much about it outside the movies. Now that no one is giving the MCU the time of day I've been seeing a lot of old Stony fans start writing again so it's nice having the best of both worlds (even though I wish I could escape RDJ's annoying ass face, I hated his casting).

>>12129
Atp can someone shit on her for appropriating Asian culture or something?
They're just painting over the history of something they jumped on with their shitty fanfiction gendie garbage.
The idea that bl was ever anything but a female genre for women is frankly just erasure.

>>12129
The last paragraph made me want to throw up. I can't read the whole article yet because the link in this thread doesn't work for me but I don't want to give these shitty journalists a click. Why do they keep using the word "fujoshi" to talk about western tranny woke shit? There was a time when western slash pairings still gave off similar vibes compared to what asian BL and popular pairings had to offer like Supernatural, BBC Sherlock and Hannibal fans liking the gay pairings for the fucked up angst and forbidden romance and not because muh MLM representation but one of them is a tif, or Glee fans liking their cutesy gay pairings and also shipping the two cheerleaders for real and not to pretend they give a fuck about lesbian representation.

>>12134
>Having media targeted towards legitimately gay people is important too
I think the issue is that the most insufferable fags want representation
The article prattles about how Ilya would do anonymous hookups and how he'd eat ass before being in love if it was realistic… but who the hell wants that? Gay men? There's been "realistic" gay media about doing party drugs and fucking strangers and nobody wants it because the target audience is just watching gay porn instead
Gay men constantly forget that they're still men, and it's ridiculous
The way the article points out that women like romance because the men don't act like real world men, but then going on about how Heated Rivalry would be improved if the guys acted like real world men…

>>12143
I hate it when people write male characters as whores in the name of “realism”. God forbid a romance try to actually be romantic instead

>>12143
I'm so tired of people denying that fiction is self-serving and always having to whine about everything being unrealistic holy shit. Literally nobody wants to see gross gay sniffies anonymous hookups with older men and meth and poppers in a fucking romance show. It's like normies can't fanthom not being the target audience being pandered to here. Reminds me of how antifujos constantly say that yaoi is secretly het or the uke is a girl all the time.

Also this realism criticism is so selectively applied to fujoshi or women's media. I'm not seeing articles written about men cooming to lesbians or sexy ladies like it's some sort of strange alien movement in a sudden revival. The framing of women liking a gay hockey show as alien and strange and must be analyzed while men cooming to women is just normal bothers me the most.

>>12143
Someone should tell this journalist that there, in fact, gay men that don't actually like hook-up cultural and struggle to find love because of it. I can guarantee there are gay men that actually do prefer escapist, slow-burn BL for that reason (but they would be on the fringes/quiet about it and not the main demographic, obviously). Not very empathetic now are they?

>>12146
>The framing of women liking a gay hockey show as alien and strange and must be analyzed
I guess we're Bronies now.

>>12147
The show is also directed by a gay man who loved the original book so much that he wanted to adapt it. If he wanted to make huge changes, he would have.

>>12132
If their masturbation is so good it's causing them to reconsider their gender identity I need their recommendations.

>>12147
Yeah there are gays that participate in hook up culture like Katya from drag race who still loved Heated Rivalry because it *wasn't* like real life and he straight up said he wanted more women to create m/m content because it had nice endings and usually didn't have death, STDs, or rape (don't tell Katya about BL manga KEK).

>>12127
>>12122
interestingly I saw some Japanese comments on the article saying it's 100 years too soon to understand the intricacies of fujoshi culture (true) and that ppl are too hung up on identity activism and representation and not separating fiction from reality. I feel like western fandom has always been incompatible with japanese fandom because of the latter part, like even in the LJ era people would write essays about how gay fanfic is inherently progressive because youre Queering The Text vs doujin culture being focused on pure self indulgent fantasies. western fandom always needs to justify its existence by being for some higher purpose which is just dishonest because at the end of the day we're drawn to shit because of our personal tastes (i.e. attraction to a character or dynamic)

>>12154
>western fandom always needs to justify its existence by being for some higher purpose which is just dishonest
I just had a revelation. You know what this reminds me of? When western nerds and video game studios were trying to hard to make their video games "art" based on one (1) dead retarded amerilard movie critic saying video games can never be art because he played Pong once. And it led to many AAA western games becoming the same boring movie slop as soon as graphics and voice acting were good enough to allow that when Japanese games were either imitating them to boost sales and failing (the Crapcom era and DmC's horrible reputation for instance, or the bullshit going on with Final Fantasy games taking way too long to come out) or making fun games as usual. With BL and slash it's the same thing, Asia as a whole releases self indulgent but diverse stories of good or bad quality alike and in the west it's shit like Heartstopper made by an incompetent fujoshi in denial or Heated Rivalry. Now instead of being like
>is video game art? can it be art?
it's
>is m/m good and respectful lgbtq+ representation? if not we need to change that

>>12155
I instantly avoid people who use queer tags on fanfic instead of just saying yaoi, slash or the dynamics of the fic.

If it says M/M, then I expect M/M. Not some trooned out straight slop. I know, it's a mess of words. The benefit of being in fandoms where everyone is either over 33 or is too dark/hard to get into is that people who do this wont feel comfortable enough to shit spray their fake activism in the fandom. I look at some of the older, translation reliant fandoms I've been in vs newer ones with simultaneous dubs and the old content really feels like a harmony between JP and English. The same goes for works that aren't safe or appealng to antishippers. DMC only has Dante and Virgil with no alternatives that aren't incestuous or immensely fucked up. Which made casually getting back into the franchise so easy. Excluding DmC.

I am in shock that black butler got completely overtaken though.

>>12156
>I instantly avoid people who use queer tags
Me too but I barely read fanfics for this reason and other reasons so now I avoid the ones who put this word anywhere in their social media accounts. These past years I was either into obscure shit that didn't have fanart of fanfics or really shitty queerios ones so I avoided these fandoms altogether, or I got into much more mainstream anime/manga or games that have fandoms so big it's easy to avoid western fake fans and just silently follow Japanese and Korean artists and call it a day. They have their own issues among each other but I don't even see these issues most of the time.

>I am in shock that black butler got completely overtaken though.
I'm glad I was always a huge fan since day one so the fans I interacted with since then were just my irl friends or some people recommending it in a forum when I was in middle and school so I only saw the weird zoomer fans from afar nowadays. They can say whatever they want about Grell being a troon, they don't realize how insane it makes them look to say the sexist gay serial killer who was jealous of pregnant women is a true and honest woman these days. I don't get the ones who complain about sebaciel though and I say that as someone who never shipped sebaciel ever in my life. Like where do they think they are?

>>12151
I feel like self inserting/imagining the feelings of someone in porn is just so bogstandard common and people are stupid so when they do this while fapping to BL they think it means they must actually want to be a yaoi boy for reals. Kind of like weebs who wish they were Asian.

>>12156
>DMC only has Dante and Virgil with no alternatives that aren't incestuous or immensely fucked up
Its so funny how people gravitated to Dante/Nero before it was confirmed that Vergil was his father, and he was just some distant relation of Sparda.
>finally, a dmc ship with no incest!
>a decade passes
>its incest

I have found that the edgier tifs do ship Dante and Vergil though, because they consistently give Dante a pussy.

>>12162
>Vergil
I always misspell his name as Virgil because I keep mentally going to the divine comedy.

That said, I'll take an edgy shipper I can mute over the entire community being full of fake fans who can't stomach Japanese fandom spaces

>>12162
>Its so funny how people gravitated to Dante/Nero before it was confirmed that Vergil was his father
Were you around during DMC4's original release? I wasn't a full on fujo back then but it's funny if this had happened, because even by just looking at Nero he looks like a mini-dante so he obviously had to be related in some way, even if he ended up being a clone of some sorts of whatever.
That said though, speaking of Vergil and Nero, Nero/V was another ship that hit people badly kek I still keep seeing people coping themselves into headcanoning V as someone entirely different from Vergil.

>>12164
These fans were pissed when they found out V was Vergil all along and they shipped dadson while the game's director was liking Nero/V yaoi fanart on twitter back when you could check anyone's likes anytime you wanted. If even the devs and writers don't care or even enjoy seeing art of Nero sexily shoving his fingers in V's mouth and undressing him or some shit you probably shouldn't care either. Like you have to move on at some point.

>>12164
ayrt, yeah. The cope was that he was some sort of distant descendant, like, from a previous relationship with Sparda. This was before the novel was widespread among the English side of the fandom. In game, Dante never brings it up, which you'd think he would have, so I understand why they assumed he wasn't directly related. The other theory was that he was *Dante's* son. there was, ah, a lot of debate between these parties.

DMC4 had Credo, so like, there was an option, and the anime was airing around that time too, and it had male characters, if fans were really desperate to not ship DMC incest.

>>12166
>DMC4 had Credo
I don't know why some of the moralfags didn't latch onto him. I remember when the game first came out I shipped him with Dante. Not because of no incest, but because I thought they'd be hot together especially with their differing in personalities. I am a proud Dante/Vergil shipper but Credo hits different, you know?

>>12157
>I don't get the ones who complain about sebaciel though and I say that as someone who never shipped sebaciel ever in my life. Like where do they think they are?
I get the impression that the newer fans cope by saying Yana isn't into that anymore since the most blatant fanservice happened early on. I dunno what form it should take but I would enjoy it so much if Yana added some form of Sebaciel content again that would make the prudish zoomer part of the fanbase publically cry and vomit. Yana please you have the opportunity to do the funniest thing.

>>12167
I don't know anything about DMC but this photo intrigued me since I liked their look and now I'm just sad there's like no english fics about them

>>12177
Raeoffrecord did a few doujinshi about them, which I think may have a translation floating around somewhere.

The common rarepair agony.

>>12154
It's so different, this is why so many Western activists in anime fandoms wind up defending franchises made for men and shitting on the ones made by women. In the West cartoons are for kids, anything for adults is mostly comedy and in an ugly art style. So people who want other stories with anime become weebs but they don't get that it doesn't work like the American industry. In America a show full of girls is for actual little girls, but in Japan tons of all girls shows are for middle age male otaku. Not everything is Precure. It's even worse with gacha games, where so many Western fans think games full of waifus are for lesbians and that mixed games cutting down on the men is feminism and not because incels are threatening to commit domestic terrorism. These people can't understand not all media is made or consumed for "representation". They don't want to understand how women in these East Asian countries where men dominate all industries create for themselves and that fujoshi culture is exactly that, especially when the anime industry has always been hostile. Now Western fans who only know some shounen anime or Genshin Impact think they know all and that they can lecture fujoshi for being "male centered" as they wind up praising industries and franchises made by men for other men to fap to. Their biggest defenders are always Western troons obsessed with anime girls.