No.4731[Last 50 Posts]
Post cringy anti-fujos takes to laugh at or even discuss.
Old thread
>>89 No.4737
Question nonnies: were you an anti-fujo before becoming a fujo? If yes, how did you change your mind? Alternatively, did you had friends or acquaintances who were/are anti-fujos?
No.4738
>>4737I have personally always been a fujo because when I was younger the "taboo" nature was a draw. So I never had a disgust factor or anything like that. SJWs/Twitter Activism/ect weren't a thing when I was first getting into anime so I wasn't anti-fujo in that regard either.
I had friends who laughed at yaoi because it was gay, and made homophobic jokes about it like the Oran boys being gay and how stupid/gross yaoi was. But they didn't know I was a fujo so it wasn't targeted or anything. Just teenagers being obnoxious.
No.4741
>>4737No, I thought it was wild and I did make fun of the bad English title of the first yaoi I borrowed, if that counts.
I was reading shit like Rosario Vampire at the time so it wasn't like I had some moral high ground.
My friends that weren't fujo didn't talk about it.
No.4743
>>4741>Rosario + VampireI hope you shipped MC with the werewolf boy, I sure did. What a fun series.
What was the bad title?
No.4744
>>4737I don't think I had enough time on the internet to even have the chance to become an anti-fujo. I never really interacted with people on the internet until I was in high school. And during my middle school days, I was using the internet to exclusively read fanfics and watch gaming let's plays. So I never came across anti-fujo stuff. When I did eventually come across anti-fujo stuff, I was already well into the fujo lifestyle and past the point of no return.
No.4745
>>4741I love Rosario Vampire, together with Elfen Lied, they both were the my favorite anime back on my first internet days
No.4746
>>4743It's been so long that I don't remember, just that I thought it was a silly porno "sexy and seductive" sounding title.
No.4747
>>4737I started out a little bit fujoshi at a young age, went through a phase where I thought all men were ugly, to liking mostly straight ships and having husbandos, to finally rediscovering my love of bl in my early twenties. I was in a few spaces where bl was hated even the spaces claiming to be "safe spaces for women". It was odd seeing them dig into it like a deer carcass on the road all because it wasn't "valid queer rep". while this was happening, I began to question my own sanity and the amount of strange double standards where yuri was only liked because anything starring women must mean it's more daring than not. By then I left when someone defended a yuri ecchi hentai–of all things. Anything that even centered on men, despite all the female gaze and even feminist themes, were derided for decentering women when that's the point. If these types took the time understand bl's history and the reason some women love it so much, they came out of it enlightened. But no, let's complain about heteronormative shipping dynamics for the 18th time. Look, my taste in bl is very unorthodox, but even I don't care because it makes some people happy lol.
No.4748
>>4737Like
>>4738 I am too old for that kind of weird activism to warp my formative years. I was shipping before I knew what shipping was, so getting online as a tween and seeing other fujos was very validating. I've gotten pretty good at sniffing out untreated mental illness in people so if I've got any anti-fujos that close they have remarkable cloaking skills.
No.4751
>>4737I was never an anti-fujo. Sounds like too much work, if there's something I dislike I simply avoid it.
No.4752
>>4737I was anti-fujo mostly because my friends were all men and constantly made fun of girls having hobbies or being fujos, so I convinced myself for a lot of years to be a 'based girl' that hated the yaoiz, the fujoshis and all that jazz. That was around 2008 or so. (But in general, I was very anti-porn, I was like 9 or something though lol).
What changed me into becoming a fujo was gaining my first OTP that made me just kinda giggly and happy, and originally I used it as a gotcha to my male friends "haha I made you click on gay porn LOLZ" but I actually did unironically like it and I just never changed then.
In fact, liking BL and Yaoi was what made me realize I wanted better friends to hang out with than a bunch of dudes that wanted me to be their personal NLOG doompilled lolicel whatever and wanted to fujosperg properly kek
No.4753
>>4751>>4752i personally fell down the yaoihole when i was 11 and looking at random sims 2 playthroughs on my laptop, i looked through the playlists of one of these sims accounts and found a scene in fucking junjou romantica (a relatively innocent one where miyagi is abducting shinobu after getting mad at him smiling with that australian fag) and because i had a surface level liking of anime (had no clue how to watch it though) i typed down "junjou romantica" into youtube watched the first episode and the trajectory of my life was forever altered
i remember buying hardcore yaoiezzz on amazon with my parents debit card and they were none the wiser as they didnt know what a yaoi was, because i'm an actual autist i went and changed the background of my school laptop to fanart of Shizaya (they were almost kissing whilst izaya had him at knifepoint) and i left it unattended and two of my teachers looked through it and said something to the effect of "it seems she changed the background…" while i was in earshot
during one lesson, one of those two teachers came up behind me and asked me to open it and then got disappointed when i opened it up and it had a generic anime girl on it instead, looking back on it he was a massive nonce for wanting to see me flustered or whatever
No.4754
>>4737In my teenage years (Maybe ages 13-16?) I was what would today be described as "anti", the kind of little shit who whined and moaned about fujos fetishizing gay men and were all degenerate coombrains into rape porn. This was in the late 00's (so ironically enough when the edgy, rapey yaoi was actually mainstream kek) so way before the discourse era but for me it was largely influenced by my very male-dominant friend circle who hated fujos and fed into my Not Like Other Girls syndrome by encouraging the fujo bashing. I had also been exposed to porn when I was too young to handle it so it was also my trauma from that guiding my judgment. It wasn't until I made actual female friends, some of them also fujos when I actually sat down to read some BL and I was hooked immediately. I would imagine that my story is a very common one for even today's "antis", only the men who would've been the dudebro otakus grooming me back then would today be the misogynistic she/her transbians.
No.4756
>>4737not sure if it would constitute as anti fujo since i was a child who thought "gay people = not normal!!" lol, but as for how i became fujo, it took googling 'hetalia manga free' and accidentally stumbling on myreadingmanga that made me enlightened to yaoi
No.4757
>>4737Never. I kinda "discovered" anti-fujos were a thing somewhere around 2018 and I was a bit surprised by that cuz usually anti-fujos way back in the late 2000s and early 2010s were just people that thought yaoi was too weird/icky for them but without all that moralizing bullshit attached to it
No.4773
>>4737No. I was just in denial about myself being into gay 2D dudes for a while when I was 14-15. Not even because of the gayness itself, I just was kinda anti-sexual before and slowly discovering that I am into fictive romances made me feel cringe until I stopped caring.
>Alternatively, did you had friends or acquaintances who were/are anti-fujos?Unironically never. My female manga loving friends were all fujos and my male manga reader friends never anti-fujo despite being pub drinker types. I have honestly only ever met anti-fujos online and primarily in recent times and on otherwise progressive platforms. Even 4chan is and certainly was chiller about it. The dudes that aren't into it simply didn't watch sausage fests to begin and the non-fujos following are rarely bothered by it, since fujos are usually chill fans that just casually post a funny shipping fanart and discuss the series. I perceive yuri fans, waifu and husbando fags as way more aggressive and attention seeking.
No.4779
>>4778>homophobesThese people are so focused on calling out women being "homophobic" while the vast majority of homophobic people are actually men, who most of the time physically bully other men.
Still tumblr is like this, blaming women and purity spiraling.
No.4780
>>4778They always bring up "real life" fetishization, but do they ever have an example of it happening aside from "weird girls at school said something suggestive about me and my homoromantic ace he/they boyfriend named after an anime character"
No.4782
>>4780You could argue that people who ship rock stars or actors fall into it I guess. That's more fujo-adjacent than actual fujo culture imo and despite BTS topping Ao3 charts I don't know any self-proclaimed fujoshi into it.
No.4783
>>4779This. It's like 90%+ men and the 10 or less percent that are homophobic women are usually tradwives, which are very, very unlikely to be fujo. They rarely engage with media at all (and are usually busy with their kids) and if they do they are more likely to be into live action and also being yume rather than fawning over gay or lesbian relationships that they actually despise in real life.
>>4782Other nonna here, but even then. There are way less of them than the generic fan that gets wet hearing about the newest relationship rumors about whatever celebrity they adore or outright making shit up about them and sometimes even their (heterosexual) partners. It's ridiculous when anti-fujos get angry at their own projections when we have a whole tabloid industry dedicated to nothing else but making shipping shit up about real people and making billions with that because normalfags are reading this shit.
I honestly view all of that as a form of misogyny because to them "sexualisation" means assuming the "female" role in any way. So a guy groping or kissing the other dude means that he "sexualises" him by forcing him into a role they deem female. That's it. They rarely call heterosexual stuff sexualising. Shipping het is never sexualising, shipping gay always is.
No.4785
>>4782In my country people ship real-life hetero couples from the reality show Big Brother lol. In fact, shipping became so popular that the show’s directors would encourage couples to get together, even if they were already dating someone else, just because their ship was trending on Twitter.
No.4795
>>4779tbf I have a similar reaction to gay men irl, I don't hate them but gay men irl are the most annoying people you can ever talk to, the thing is I can separate fiction from reality
No.4796
Dunno if this was posted in the last thread, but I feel like it fits
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja5AlY8ZbDo No.4797
>>4796Man I love when 15 year old fanfic sterotypes are still brought up.
Seriously, its clear this person hasn't engaged with the community recently MPREG and "gay for you" are way less common for one. Same with lube which most authors do include in some form.
No.4799
>>4797IME it wasn't even like this 15 years ago. As somebody who ravenously consumed yaoi fanfic from like 2000-2010 I never saw this kind of shit in the ubiquity the video is implying. My fandoms were mostly jrpgs, shonen anime, and Harry Potter.
No.4800
>>4737I wasn't anti-fujo before my fujoing, but I hopped through a really weird spiral before I actually got into BL. It was likely ignorance and shit, but kid me would say "see, I only ship these two male characters because they aren't human" during my sonic phase and I was "offended" that shipping male!poland with another male was a thing (aka the hetalia shipping). Maybe I was trying to be a suck up and/or rationalise what I was interested in to my catholic parents. But then, I discovered inazuma eleven and everything changed. I didn't turn back since, and I am glad bcz yaoi is fun, lol.
Bonus from my sonic phase : I remember showing some moid in middle school a sonadow drawing I made and he said, in an accusatory snarky way, "is that hentai?" to which I asked what hentai is and he cowered back for some reason. Never had an aswer from him.
No.4801
>>4796Idk what hyper specific shit the individual who made this video has been reading but these tropes are waaaaay less common then this video seems to think they are
The turbo swishy homofag landing the masculine "straight" fratboy is more of a fantasy of actual gay men as opposed to fujos
Also unless it's omegaverse or crackfic, most fujos don't actually add random pregnancy in their fics
Also "I'm gay only for you" is more of a bl manga trope that's losing popularity in recent years, same with "bi erasure" as the go to headcanon for manwhore characters is to have them be bi
No.4802
>>4799Yeah MPREG was always the red-headed stepchild of the community and while it's evolved into omegaverse somewhat it's still more the weird thing to point and laugh at than a ubiquitous element of shipping.
Gay for you was a thing on FF back in the day, same with lubeless anal, but that seems more just the product of young and inexperienced writers who have never seen gay porn before. Also as
>>4801 says making a character BI is often used as shorthand to avoid having to explain why one party would fuck another canonically. I haven't seen a double gay panic fic in years.
No.4803
>>4802You know they're retarded because they take one of the most niche tropes (mpreg) and try to paint the entire community with that brush. I swear antis read more mpreg than actual fujos. You don't even encouter that fetish unless you're actively seeking it out.
No.4804
>>4801>Also "I'm gay only for you" is more of a bl manga trope that's losing popularity in recent yearsEven in stuff like Chinese bl which people say is more "heteronormative" for some fucking reason has series that make it clear they have gay/bisexual mcs that have gay crushes before the love interest. Even if they're virgins they're like "I'm never having sex but I know I have gay thoughts and have never liked women sexually."
No.4807
>>4753>fell down the yaoiholeThis sounds like a fetish situation you'd see on MRM.
>>4802Hands up if you remember the LJ posts about lube and wine bottles. Material that influenced an entire generation.
No.4811
>>4803>You don't even encouter that fetish unless you're actively seeking it out.For what it's worth I have personally seen it more in some fandoms than others. Like I've mentioned before, it feels like Mpreg has become a shitpost meme these days cause I'll see people on social media post memes along the lines of "I need him on my desk, pregnant" and "My body is a machine that turns men into pregnant men" along with related statements such as "His cervix is going to be destroyed" and I could see that translating into the perception that it's a prevalent trope in fanworks in general.
No.4812
>>4811This is my experience as well, people mostly make jokes about getting fictional men pregnant (including myself) and antifujos take it at face value thinking that fujoism is all about male pregnancy and somehow it's also misogynistic because "we're implying the ability to get pregnant makes you inferior" (despite it being directed at the character affectionately) which is one hell of a spin on a shitposting meme and feels like projection.
No.4829
>>4828I love when people who don't know at all what they're talking about try to appear as the authority. It's not hard to Google why fujoshi means rotten girl.
No.4830
>>4828This was genuinely such a weird post. She's someone who speaks fluent Japanese but afaik isn't Japanese and is claiming to "speak on behalf of Japanese BL fans" but when Japanese people on Twitter started telling her she's full of shit and nobody thinks using the rotten kanji is associated with homophobia she pulled the "well OBVIOUSLY Japanese speakers aren't a monolith!" card. Then why did you post this "PSA"?
No.4831
>>4830Tell me more about it, I want to see him or her getting corrected by Japanese fujoshi so bad.
>>4828>look up the tweet>it's someone I blocked before but I blocked more than 3000 accounts so I don't remember why>obvious shit take from someone who doesn't know anything about the topic>tranny flag in the user name>my girl Kamui from FE Fates as an icon just to ruin everything even moreAbsolute cancer.
No.4832
>>4831same anon, I looked it up some more and that poor girl(?) doesn't know which sex/gender she is but also doesn't know if she's American, Japanese, both, or American with Japanese parents or grandparents so at that point it's safe to assume we should ignore her.
No.4833
>>4828Rotten because women are not supposed to be engaging in voyeuristic pleasure from men, that's why there is no term for guys liking only yuri, it's "normal" for men to be voyeuristic
No.4834
>>4833The exact same discourse happened when fujoshi were joking about being sinners because they read fanfics of their OTPs and tourists assumed it meant they were homophobic and considered gay men sinful, even though the joke was that women are considered sinners for finding men hot and enjoying fanservice. It's like we're in a time loop.
No.4836
>>4834Misogyny doesn't even register as a possibility to the origin of the word in the minds of woketards. They literally think it doesn't exist or something when it's the most pervasive form of discrimination in existence.
No.4837
>>4833>women are not supposed to be engaging in voyeuristic pleasure from menMen get very upset when you tell them that's the only way you're going to be feeling any genuine pleasure from men.
>>4834>even though the joke was that women are considered sinners for finding men hot and enjoying fanservice.If it's not for a man's benefit they believe this.
No.4838
>>4828Isn't this the same argument used way back on Tumblr? People need to get some new material.
No.4839
>>4828I follow a good bunch of Japanese fujo artists who are lebsians irl I doubt that they're homophobic, the rotten isn't related to the gay characters.
>>4830People that pretend to be Japanese or to speak for them are always the most extreme, obnoxious members of the their respective political alignments.
Twitter has/had a bunch of fake-Japanese who were racist as fuck, particularly against other Asians or LARPing misogynist Japanese to prove that Japan was the way they want it to be until it turned out that those accounts belong to generic white incels. I also witnessed a wokeoid that claimed JP would despise cultural approbation so westerners shouldn't eat, wear or buy anything related to the culture of Japan. That one also turned out to be a white US woman.
>>4837This is a good explanation. I never thought of this but this is it. It's not directly about the gay but the fact that women only like men that aren't willing to fuck with them lol
No.4843
>>4828I'm still thinking about this post and how the OP got ratio'd, like sure there are retarded fakebois still saying that fujoshi are homophobic by definition and all that but seeing everyone shit talking here… maybe nature is healing. And it's so funny seeing people defending her saying she's Japanese even though she's actually American-Japanese. It's like me showing my Algerian passport and saying I'm an expert in some obscure Algerian subculture despite never going there in my life and not participating in said subculture to begin with. Like girl, you're American, shut the fuck up lol.
No.4844
>>4843>And it's so funny seeing people defending her saying she's Japanese even though she's actually American-JapaneseI'm not surprised cause they've done this type of stuff for ages. I remember years ago they complained about non-japanese people wearing kimonos while japanese people in japan gave no shits.
No.4845
>>4828I made the mistake of reading the whole thread and the QRTs full of people trying to shit on white women (and of course, calling them ugly and fat). The hashtag they link as evidence is about ceasing the use of "Normal Love" to mean straight ships. There's a bunch of Japanese users telling them they're wrong, and one guy with a baby ostrich avatar who says they disagree with everything they said but won't use fujoshi because they think it's rude to women. I think that last guy is sensible but someone's going to misconstrue him to win internet arguments and call people racist. God they love being able to accuse people of racism.
I'm shocked how many people on twitter think fujoshi is "only being reclaimed now", like the term hasn't been used by Western anime fans since at least 2007. I'm also surprised by the range of nationalities who turned up to laugh at it. Lots of Turkish and Chinese speakers.
>>4830One of the Japanese users agreeing with them in the QRTs mentions they've "only lived on my side for 7 years", which I assume means when they moved from America to Japan. There's one real angery dude in the replies too who says he moved to Japan a while ago and was forced to translate yaoi where a man is raped with a wrench, woe is him, the accursed fujoshi who showed him nude cosplay photos in high school is to blame for this fate!
No.4846
>>4845>There's one real angery dude in the replies too who says he moved to Japan a while ago and was forced to translate yaoi where a man is raped with a wrench, woe is him, the accursed fujoshi who showed him nude cosplay photos in high school is to blame for this fate!KEK what?? Men acting like victims over fujos will never be not hilarious though. I've honest to god witnessed moids crying about how fujos "sexualizing male friendships" is making them scared of having close bonds with other men. Imagine being this insecure and weak.
Also the "boys love refers specifically to underage boys", where the fuck do people pick up these things? Someone is just talking out of their ass on ex dot com and everyone takes it as the honest truth.
No.4847
>>4846>Also the "boys love refers specifically to underage boys", where the fuck do people pick up these things?These idiots can't possibly imagine that most female otaku in Japan a few decades ago came up with this phrase because they're ESL, and not because they're pedophiles.
>>4845>I'm also surprised by the range of nationalities who turned up to laugh at it. Lots of Turkish and Chinese speakers.This shit take will help us achieve world peace at this rate. Did you see the tweet where OP replies something like "there are a lot of white passing Japanese people so yikes" when someone ratio'd her by implying she's a white weeb? She kept digging herself deeper and then her recent tweets are like "omg I love my followers for supporting me (crying emoji) I blocked my notifications because I'm such a victim"
No.4848
>>4846>boys love refers specifically to underage boysThey got it mixed up with shonen ai somehow.
No.4849
>>4848Shonen ai does not refer to underage boys wtf.
Shonen Ai is a term which refers to non-pornographic yaoi. Its a more "Japanese" way of saying BL basically though I think the term is mainly used by English speakers.
No.4850
>>4849Nta but I'm guessing this is what she meant by mixing up, afaik shounen ai/少年愛 is the japanese word for pederasty which (I might be wrong about this) was also used before the term yaoi or BL. As you said us english speakers use it differently.
No.4852
>>4846They're obsessed with this shit to the point at which some of them even refuse to go to the cinema with their (male) friend because oh god some random stranger might think they're gaaay (nobody will ever think this there are so many men here that do things together because they're friends and not mentally ill).
I also love how these types are shocked about the fact that a man can't just fuck women but other men as well because imagining that some might think of doing that with you is perverted and scary but then these same people bitch about women that don't want to fuck with them for the same reasons.
>>4847It's always US Americans doing this afaik. I don't know why they're so obsessed with attributing as many possible ethnicities and identities to themselves. I recently saw a "ethnicity" meme where everybody posted what cultures they belong to with flags. Normal people used one flag or two, US users had up to 8 LMAO because some gen test or rumor said that 3% of their genes or one of their ancestors was originally Ethiopian 120 years ago. So fucking stupid.
No.4854
>>4852What's funny is that people from all over the world correct her stupid take because you don't need to be Japanese to know about BL, slash, yaoi, etc. whatever you want to call it but you have to be at least a little into this specific genre and its fanbases. Since we're talking about a confused American-Japanese woman who thinks she's a Japanese man and who's obsessed with a het pairing from a video game where you can make way better het pairings happen in-game
no seriously who the fuck ships the MC with that guy? aside from her? peak shit taste, it's safe to assume she doesn't like BL enough to know wtf she's talking about. And the point she's trying to make is wrong in the first place because almost all Japanese fujoshi online use the 腐 kanji in their bio on social media, it's also used as a tag on pixiv and to promote fan events, and the argument about het ships was about renaming NL (normal love) into something else because of the implications the phrase has, so it's unrelated to BL in the first place.
No.4855
>There's one real angery dude in the replies too who says he moved to Japan a while ago and was forced to translate yaoi where a man is raped with a wrench
Literally fucking nothing compared to the kind of shit you see in mainstream heterosexua porn
No.4856
>>4852>It's always US Americans doing this afaikyeah and asian americans are kinda infamous for this, most of them lived their entire lives in the west but suddenly for internet brownie points they feel comfortable speaking for all asians.
No.4904
>>4903sexualises lesbians is really out there, surely women who sexualise lesbians are lesbian/bi themselves? i feel like fujoshis aren't really known for doing that anyways lol
also killing stalking was very sexual what are these people on about
No.4920
>>4919This is LC right? I hate how antifujo that place is. I’m glad I dropped most of the site, my happiness went up drastically after that. I only occasionally check a few /m/ threads now. I was so glad when I found this place because LC is full of antifujo to the point of there even having been a shitty biased mod that never banned the chronic antifujo baiters. Also they allow so much infighting on the site. It’s a bad recipe for basically scaring away any non-cow users.
No.4921
>>4920that's pretty much what they want but they're like twttards that claim yaoi is fetishizing gay men and then they read it without telling anyone
No.4922
>>4920The site has gotten so toxic even the cow users are leaving since anons have started turning the mean-spiritedness onto each other instead of toward the cows. I can't even believe I'm saying this but you're more likely to have a better, more civil thread on parts of 4chan than you are on LC any more. Sad to see it become like this but the mods and worst users got what they asked for, I guess.
No.4924
>>4919>hannah rails against fujos, claiming they are just women who are afraid of their own sexualitieslolwat
>>4920I really need to get off of LC aside from checking a few threads in the non-cow boards
No.4925
>>4920The antifujo stuff isn't even the worst, the opinions are so obnoxious and projecting that it's hard to discuss anything except the most basic bitch level stuff.
The yaoi and anime threads are pretty much ass, with so few things really fine to talk about without someone spazzing out over taste.
No.4926
>>4918>>4919All this hand-wringing and analysis when the truth is I'm really just a shipperfag. I feel like unless you ALSO have the brainrot disease you simply aren't qualified to speak with authority about what shipping does to people.
No.4927
>>4922Yeah I actually meant like anyone that isn’t an actual cow themselves is being pushed away when I said non-cow users. I probably should’ve said they’re pushing away the users that aren’t absolutely unhinged.
No.4928
>>4918It's funny how they will spend hours doing this retarded projection to pathologize fujos but when a fujo actually talks about the psychology they've observed from their own and their community's experiences they start screeching about how "IT'S NOT THAT DEEP YOU JUST LIKE IMAGINING YOURSELF AS THE UKE GETTING DICKED REEEEEEEEEEEE".
>>4922It's like everyone is just trying to out-edgelord each other even in cow threads so they just all devolve into infighting and screaming at each other.
No.4929
>>4919Bold of her to assume that I like feminized men. I would just play Genshin and enjoy run-of-the-mill BL and life would be easier if that was the case.
>>4920Never used it much but a few weeks of engagement were enough to make me quit. I don't even know what they like in the first place aside from Twilight, if there is even anything. Probably some celebrity I don't know, the celeb threads were always active. LC is basically populated by failed normalfags.
>>4925Yeah this the main issue. You cannot talk about anything without some of them making it political and going ad hominem. Also absolutely obsessed with trannies and men. Post anything about your anime taste someone doesn't agree with and you are accused of being a man, zoomer or tranny. I remember that they have accused me of being a rightoid or pickme for my 2D taste. Remember that I was called out because I loved strong, scary-looking beefy antagonists which means that I love to be beaten up or something. Also, not me, but I saw them going after nonnas that liked CSM because only men are able to like that.
No.4930
>>4929Speaking of beefy, their reaction to Bravern and Golden Kamuy.
It's completely understandable to not like it or think it's not to your taste but it's damn near impossible to talk about these series because of the screeching about gay men, ugly moids, pickmes, and how fanservice doesn't count if it's funny.
No.4931
>>4930Oh man I didn't know that I love BOTH. But guess that shows that what I said is on point. It almost makes me want to post these two series (or four, they probably hate the other two as well then) to see what happens lol
>how fanservice doesn't countOne of biggest pet peeves even within the fujo fandom. I recently talked to others about a newer ship I love, one fujo asked if they were an actual couple and before I could answer someone else said there was no gayness because they only hug and touch and smile at each other half-naked because the mangaka thought it was funny. I almost groaned. Same issue with Golden Kamuy and Bravern.
You would never ever see this with m/w characters. Imagine them being naked and hugging in a funny way, or the girl jumps behind MC and hugs him and MC is surprised, or or or.. Imagine seeing people say "no they're not into each other lol it's just a joke scene, dump anon". Never happened. But for dudes it has to be either a dedicated, official BL show or they have to fuck on-screen otherwise it's just your fujo goggles.
I am not surprised that men and yume do it but I am disappointed seeing so many fujos fighting over it and devaluating every m/m intimity by calling it a joke or meta-scene for fanservice that has no actual meaning.
No.4932
>>4919it's funny that Hannah is saying anything on morality, all her 'activism' consists of partying, drinking and hooking up and she thinks anyone who doesn't live like that is lame
No.4933
>>4932Of course it's always subhumans like these shitting on harmless nerdy hobbies while they pump actual poison into their bodies just because it's the cool person thing.
No.4934
>>4933I listen to her and Jen occasionally and they can be funny and insightful, but they are very judgemental about people's hobbies, like liking anime or preferring anything alternative, they always call it "infantile"
No.4935
>>4928I kinda love getting in fights with male anons about what women are into, the moment you reveal you have firsthand observations either they double down on their theory being factual or start screaming "FAAAT FATTY FAT FAT FATFACE YOU'RE FAT AND ALSO YOU SMELL". Come on dude, you were so confident in your words before.
>>4922I tried posting there once and made the mistake of writing a whole paragraph on a manga I like. Just got replies like "lol so what" and "you're not special". They do not want to discuss opposing viewpoints or interpretations, the internet psychologist guys put more effort into their arguments.
>>4931Remember the danmei novel Scum Villain's Self Saving System does not have a couple in it because the protagonist isn't gay and it's just a joke bro.
No.4936
>>4932>>4933I've seen a theory once that fandoms got worse after the pandemic because bored normies got into them during lockdown without caring about fandom culture and starting bringing in their shitty attitudes. This seems like a prime example.
No.4937
>>4931>But for dudes it has to be either a dedicated, official BL show or they have to fuck on-screen otherwise it's just your fujo goggles. Tbe worst case I've seen was when
Yuri and Viktor kissed in Yuri on Ice and even so called fujoshi were like "reeee it didn't count it's queerbaiting they shouldn't have censored it
we don't know if they actually kissed they jjsy hugged we don't see their lips touching on screen!!!!!" so I looked it up and saw that the one posting these things the most were often fakebois or TRAs. When I complained about them on twitter back then and complained that they loved posting spoilers of an episode that barely came out less than 24h ago to everyone my mutuals all unfollowed or blocked me lol.
No.4939
>>4936Hannah think fandom is lame though
No.4940
>>4937Oh yeah fakebois HATED Yuri on Ice for some reason and kept complaining that it's "queerbait" despite being possibly the first openly gay romance anime that doesn't classify simply as BL but more as actual LGBT representation due to it being sports anime first and a romance story second. I'm still debating on what about that anime was that made them seethe so much, my theory is that a lot of them are genuinely homophobic and Yuri on Ice was just TOO gay for them.
No.4941
>>4940They literally exchange rings and even if the kids wasn't explicit it was very clearly a kiss… Honestly I'd believe the theory of them being actual homophobes
No.4944
>>4919>>4942>>4932That's not what she said. Briefly mentioning fandom when discussing maladjusted TiFs is reasonable. Do you get always get this mad when people bring up cringe TiFs? Unless you go to social venues to stare at couples kissing (this is exactly what they were discussing by the way) there's no reason to seethe across multiple websites
No.4945
https://www.tiktok.com/@trashbuns/video/7426183663676673326?_r=1&_t=8qa0maqYxxvPoor girl, she seems so broken.
For a while I assumed she was keeping it in but it seems like that was more just her way of coping with the extreme harassment she was getting, anti fujos are fuckin deranged man.
No.4946
>>4945Omg what is wrong with the people in the comments? The first thing that pops into your head after a girl tells you she got threats and even doxxed for buying an manga that exists in Japan without issues and you’re like “who even are you” or “shouldn’t have made light of such a serious issue.” Like wtf, I don’t even like ybc but it’s quite literally fiction and there are unironically worse manga out there with darker themes than ybc.
No.4948
>>4945I bet half of the people harassing her as just butthurt because she said their itabags with random shit thrown in look ugly as fuck and are using this as an excuse lol
No.4949
>>4947I feel like teenagers have gotten worse due to social media. I don’t remember being this low empathy when I was a teenager and I was terminally online.
>if a guy had posted stuff like this no one would give a shitMen can literally say they played and enjoyed Saya no Uta and no one would bat an eye. Actually I think a woman can say that too and get little-to-no backlash. It’s become really obvious nowadays that stuff that’s targeted towards women and is popular gets major backlash if it’s not 100% purehearted fluff.
No.4950
>>4949It's possible, I feel like there's just more teenagers on the internet now so it's easier for them to share it with everyone.
>Actually I think a woman can say that too and get little-to-no backlashEh, maybe if they're in mainly male circles but women into figure collecting get called out by other pick mes for collecting loli nekopara figures by other girls who collect loli nekopara figures.
No.4951
>>4949They must have. Even at my most edgy the worst I ever actively did to another person was post mean reviews on Mary Sue fanfics and "pvp on a pvp server" shenanigans. It's so fucked up how you can lose what feels like a dice roll and become the main target of an anti- dogpile.
No.4952
>>4945Who is this and why do they hate her so much? These zoomers get on the the hate train with everyone else but then never feel any remorse for these doxxing campaigns over fiction. I have no hope in them growing out of this behavior.
No.4955
>>4946>>4947>>4949This isn't like the anti-fujo cringe of the 2010s, extreme moralifaggoty has radically increased among young zoomers in response to the rise of porn-culture, I swear these fanatics would have the entire internet and publishing industries censored they and cheer for it
No.4957
>>4949>Men can literally say they played and enjoyed Saya no Uta and no one would bat an eye.Reminds me of how Addy Harajuku is openly a fan of that game but calls BL "problematic". She has a huge young zoomer fanbase too. The double standards are honestly fucked.
>I feel like teenagers have gotten worse due to social media. I don’t remember being this low empathy when I was a teenager and I was terminally online.The theory someone presented that the pandemic made normies get into fandom spaces and that's why they're gotten so much meaner makes a lot of sense, when I was teenager and smartphones didn't exist yet so every normie didn't have access to online spaces in their pockets the vibe was much less sociopathic. Your average old generation nerd at least knew how it felt like to be bullied and could empathize by mirroring their experiences, but these people have absolutely no shame with how far they're willing to take the torture of some girl they don't even know.
No.4958
>>4957Saya is great, but I've never heard any "normal" men recommend it without caveats.
Real solution here is to just not use Tik-tok or any site with a predominately young userbase.
No.4961
>>4947>Teens in general have very very very low empathyExactly because their brain is literally underdeveloped, which is why years later they cringe the ever living shit out thinking about themselves, or either end up sociopathic
No.4976
>>4957The solution is gatekeeping normies and antis out. It's why I like less accessible hobbies like BJDs so losers like Addy Harajuku can't come in and act like know-it-alls
No.4978
>>4976But how? moids have their autism and loli fetishes, what can women do?
No.4979
>>4978Male-leaning NSFW communities are essentially protected by an oort cloud of psychos who will actively return fire on antis. Female-leaning NSFW communities don't have this because in general we are nicer or have other obligations (hobbies, life) that keep us from being so proficient at doxxing and saying shit that is considered social suicide (I have seen a wall of 'fuck off nword' in response to a lolicon anti, just insane speed and intensity in their defenses). I'm not saying "do this" because I find that kind of behavior and language really off-putting, but damn if it isn't effective gatekeeping.
Right now the best we can do is be really careful with what personal info we put online and block liberally.
No.4980
I'm enjoying watching the reactions to the Nakamura-kun trailer. All these people who didn't realize the "meme" was the cover of a BL manga and now they're complaining about it. A bunch of them have to keep awkwardly adding the word "shit" to their sentences to signal they don't approve of homosex in their Super Secret Nerd Hobby That Isn't For Girls. What a shame it's yaoi shit, hope I don't have to see any of this gay shit when it comes out, why do they keep making girl shit anime.
And then 15mins later they're back to raving about how good MahoAko is and sharing Bocchi shipping art.
No.4981
>>4980I can't imagine looking at the cover and not realizing it's BL. Sounds like a buncha normalfags larping as super elite otaku honestly.
No.4982
>>4978Autism and shota fetishes
>>4979Yeah honestly, I make sure to keep my accounts as separate as possible from my irl identity and then do as I please, and also try not to start fights if it's a social platform like twitter. I think it's absolutely fine to spit back with some nasty words because people picking needless fights don't deserve a respectful conversation, but at the end of the day people love the back and forth, so it's better to ignore mostly and make connections with other women who stand up for themselves
No.4983
>>4982>shotaSadly not every fujo is into shota. Although most shota places do gatekeep.
No.4984
>>4981I'm fairly sure that they just never saw the original and were surrounded by completely detached bandwagoners that used girl/girl or het pairings. This means at some point they must have assumed a random twitter trace was the original and were probably looking down on fujo parodies of it.
No.4985
>>4983That's true. I just thought it would be funny to reply with the obvious equivalent
No.5007
>>4961>Exactly because their brain is literally underdevelopedFuck off with this holy shit. Just because they're still growing, doesn't mean they don't know right from wrong.
No.5018
>>5007>doesn't mean they don't know right from wrongI didn't say that? They are obviously wrong but I am just pointing out that there is a reason they act like that, obviously peer pressure and social media also doesn't help.
No.5021
The weirdest subset of yuri fans that I've come across have been the yurifags who LOVE m/f and f/f ships and cape for them aggressively but absolutely hate BL and m/m ships, constantly seething about fujos and how much they piss them off. I came across someone posting about how much she hates fujos the other day and checked her account, and she was one of these people I've been seeing more and more. Is it seething about fujos not producing content they can relate to for self-inserting purposes? Are they jealous about the thriving community fujos have? Have they been genuinely gaslit into thinking that fujos are evil woman haters? I don't even know. It's just weird that they specifically cape for m/f and f/f ships but not either.
No.5024
>>5021These women crave moral superiority because it's one of the few 'dominant' positions they can afford while maintaining a pure (=feminine) exterior. It's a way to signal how nice they are by caping for imaginary traumatized gay men, randomly expressing compassion and motherly feelings is also feminine
>>5022>yuri symbolizes purity and beauty>yaoi bad because female sexuality>i hope every woman diesWhat a headcase kek. I wish these weaklings would sort out their femininity/passivity complex in private
No.5027
>>5022>the screencapDid a man write this? There's so much bad faith seething mentioning the word "fetish" in every single sentence like a broken record, sperging about lesbian love being pure and chaste and ending it with "I hope cishet women go to hell". I can actually believe that most yuri being written by women because men are lazy fucks who can't get content done anywhere and instead leech off others' effort but it's still written according to patriarchal ideas of women and femininity like this asshole even admits to this "pure princesses" ideal. A yuri with heavy topics and darker narrative like something Harada or Asada Nemui would create couldn't exist because yuri authors are so mentally blocked from thinking about women as anything else than pretty objects performing femininity be it either being a soft uwu or a horny moidgaze sex object instead of being an interesting character.
No.5029
>>5022I encounter this type of poster a lot on 4chan in recent times. I still don't know if they're women, shitposting men or male trannies. I bet my money on the latter but I am not sure. I only know that they are legit annoying and honestly IMO even worse than the classic incels since they were at least openly edgy and broken and knew it. Also
>yuri is made by queer women for queer womenLMAO how stupid or how much of a liar do you have to be?
Honestly I believe that the majority of obsessive fujo haters from the 20s are yuri shitters. Because I swear the board culture of /a/ takes another nosedive every single time after a yuri series happens to be successful and it's always the most annoying, obsessive brats posting about the yuri victory and demonizing fujo and women (and 2D men) as a whole. The hatred against fictional men in particular is highly suspicious. There is a meltdown everytime some yuri pandering series has a guy somewhere and it really escalates if one of the fans (usually a woman) should dare to like him.
This obsessive hatred of real women on the one hand and fictional men as well as fear of 2D men on the other hand is yet another sign for me that the posters must be some sort of self-hating incel trannies.
No.5030
>>5022This was 100% written by a self-hating woman who now identifies as a man because she drank the 'only queer people can ethically consume BL' kool-aid.
No.5031
>>5022>queerI hate how Discourse has warped this word into a red flag for me. We had only just defeated the "queer is a slur" discourse and then it was taken out back and beaten to death by tenderqueers.
No.5034
>>5033Absolutely no one's surprised.
>>5022Whatever incorrect perception she has of GL spaces aside, these people will berate fujos and their work 24/7 yet still interact with it. How many gaydens actually like bara? Maybe <10% of them? The rest shriek about homophobic cishet women fetishizing and objectifying them but occupy all of our spaces, they talk about the evils of fujos making bad representation for homos but still have 100+ mangago bookmarks saved because they are still fujos at the end of the day. If these retarded Tiffanys truly hated us I wish they'd actually bother to stay away and shut the fuck up.
>>5029In my experience most yurishitters that have a superiority complex against fujos are either troons or polilez women who barely even read yuri. If you look at accounts that actually post about GL beyond virtue signalling they rarely ever mention yaoi/fujos.
No.5036
>>5035Is this Yuripedo? Notice how all of the personalityfags on that site like her and Rancefag seethe over fujos while being more mentally ill and deranged than any fujo I've ever seen
No.5037
>>5036Yeah, it's her. She's often made me wonder just how many yurifags online are like her when they get to take their masks off under anon because a lot of them are unhinged levels of aggressive and seem to hate fujos more than they actually love yuri or other women.
No.5038
>>5035Man, I don't want lc shitdrama here.
It's that sort of thing that just multiplies and before you know it any bl talk outside retro and vns is considered "uggo psyop for pedos".
No.5041
>>5036Rancefag is a fujo though
No.5043
>>5029I noticed it too and it bewilders me every time. You're on /a/ and you want to argue that women are filthy deviants who fetishize their porn? Open literally any Synecdoche thread and tell me nobody ever fetishizes shit in their manga and what saints and angels you are on this anonymous image board. Don't virtue signal in the ocean of piss, you look like a fool.
>>5033Do they have any essays on why leather kink and pets shouldn't be at Pride because it's a fetish subculture? Because it's hard to enjoy your gimp suit without S&M or sub/dom elements turning up? Without opening it I'll assume no because those gud bois dindu nutin. It's all WOMEN who are bad because SEX bad.
No.5044
>>5029To be honest I do think the majority of yuri, at least the yuri containing explicit scenes, is created and consumed by men.
I think many of these anti-fujo women are simply misogynistic, the tif ones it goes without saying they hate themselves, and these yuri fans seem more obsessed with lesbianism (and age regression)as an aesthetic. In fact, I rarely see them engaging in shipping, they might create fanart occasionally but they don't seem to ship characters as much as others do.
No.5045
>>5042someone clearly hasnt taken a quick 5 second scroll onto a ryona soulsborne chinese fujo's page
No.5046
>>5033Called it. Had to do some digging to find it, but she also has an article about how her 'egg cracked' because she found herself terribly, terribly attracted to Randall Ascot and had to justify it as being 'in a gay way' to avoid dwindling into mere heterosexuality.
>https://macaque.moe/articles/eggAmazing how these people can recognize that the 'fujoshi to gay transmasc pipeline' exists and yet not do any critical thinking about why it might possibly exist. No, it's clearly just because they're innately better than the rest of us filthy animals.
No.5047
>>5046>supposedly hates fujoshis and "yaoi">obsessed with BL and everything by and for fujoshis from a young age>thinks she's a gay boy in a girl's body after reading yaoi>obsessed with a video game character so much that she starts the gay boi LARP>writes an article on evil fujoshis where she admits to contantly reading unproblematic yaoi (uh huh)>"i hope every cishet woman goes to hell before they die"ok aiden
No.5050
>>5046It's so tiring going against the fujo hate when it's full of aidens and handmaidens.
It's like some of them like to be cucked, I remember a mutual fujo on twitter would excuse mutual moids saying the most vile disgusting things about fujos, just because they were part of her friend group. She even got mad at me for supposedly being a dipshit to them, as she put it. You're friends with someone who says disgusting things about women, including you, and expect me to not say anything about it? Honestly I just find this whole situation sad.
No.5051
>>5044It's the other way around, kind of. Ignoring online coomer artists and doujin contributors (they almost always make futa so they're easy to spot), men gravitate towards 'pure' and sexless yuri because they fixate on girlhood, with all the troon/pedo implications. A lot of ecchi or explicit yuri is made by women. I don't know where this 'women only make pure yuri, men only make filthy yuri' thing came from
>age regression as an aestheticSpot on.
>I rarely see them shippingDepends, some genuinely are into GL but most of them seem to not actually like yuri all that much. At most, they'll watch some anime with yuri subtext and talks about 'sword lesbians in toxic love' while never going in detail about why they love these characters. They dedicate their shipping energies to BL. I wouldn't look twice if they liked original GL more but that doesn't seem to be the case either kek
>>5047Being a woman who's obsessed with approval must be hell
No.5053
>>5051>Depends, some genuinely are into GL but most of them seem to not actually like yuri all that much. At most, they'll watch some anime with yuri subtext and talks about 'sword lesbians in toxic love' while never going in detail about why they love these characters. They dedicate their shipping energies to BL. I wouldn't look twice if they liked original GL more but that doesn't seem to be the case either kekI see this all the time where they will go on and on about how gay/queer/bi they are but will only care about male characters. They will retweet a f/f pairing once in a while and say "im gay im gay!!" or something, but there's never any analysis or deep dives. They aren't writing 100k+ slowburn femslash. A sizable portion of yuri fans in a fandom seem desperate to prove lgbt status because being a boring straight woman would the end of the world. Another sizable portion are just trannies obsessed with lesbian sex who complain with fujos don't write fanfiction for them.
I have nothing against actually yuri fans though and like it myself kekI also think it's funny how the most toxic yuri can get before they get scared is Homura and Madoka. No yuri ugly bastards or weird fetishes or anything you would see in a generic BLVN
No.5054
>>5042This totally sounds like the post of a 1/5 "Asian" US citizen and not an actual Japanese or Chinese fan. I follow 1500 artists on twitter, most of them Asians and almost all of them are chill in that regard or posting the most deranged stuff. Seriously most fetishes never get western fanart because westerns don't dare to post it.
Also what a stupid thing to assume that fetishes were related to fucking clout. I don't care about fucking labels, this is another American thing. I just enjoy my fetishes in peace and people like this are the reason for why I avoid Tumblr like the plague.
>anti reyloI am so happy that I never cared about SW. Everytime I hear anything about its fandom it's about infighting and cringe flame wars.
No.5055
>>5042I followed a korean artist for her art of one shonen character and the next tweet on her account was that character getting raped to death
No.5056
dudebros do not understand fandom dynamics in general and especially not shipping.
they need to go back to powerscaling in front of a cold beer with their bros or whatever and get off women coded online spaces because i cant deal with giggling when i find cute art, and then being hit with their braindead takes in the comments anymore.
they just dont get that shipping has nothing to do with the characters being canonically in love or not.
"but they hate each other!" yeah thats why it's hot to imagine them making out.
"but theyre best friends!" ill think abt them being fwbs in my head, or a wholesome slowburn.
no one is saying that's how the story actually goes…but to be honest they don't give two shits about canon and we all know what's their real problem with shipping, since they only have qualms about it when it's two male characters paired up together.
it's okay to ship non-canon female couples or better yet het ones, but as soon as it's two men they have manbaby meltdowns about how "thats just not the story!!11!". and you're just not that hot, so no one is thinking about you and your friends going at it, sleep peacefully
No.5057
>>5051>I don't know where this 'women only make pure yuri, men only make filthy yuri' thing came from I believe that coomers are generally obsessed with vanilla purity shit while borderline asexuals make the crazy shit and porn. This is even a viral meme, but I can only confirm this. Almost all of the fujos I know have no interest in sexuality in real life but make horny fictional stuff or dark shit. Meanwhile look at the coomers on /a/ and the likes. All they want is girly girls doing girl things and there should be romance but please no sex because sex is evil.
It reminds of those Miyazaki vs Junji Ito memes. Maybe humans tend to project into fiction what they don't have in real life, be it out of curiosity or as a form of projection of sentiments and urges they aren't acting on. For sex it might be a form of conflict or self-hatred coomers have so they try to escape whereas women might dislike real sex but love the principle of it so they enjoy exploring it in fiction.
I swear everytime I see hype for a serious, sexual or dark anime the fanbase is primarily women unless it's mainstream enough like Berserk to be known and liked by all types of people. Hell even THEN 99% of the Berserk fanart out there are from women.
No.5058
>>5057>I believe that coomers are generally obsessed with vanilla purity shitlmfao you will only ever see men with grade 4 porn addiction posting that "wholesome" iteration of the men just want one thing and its fucking disgusting, with the guy and the girl smiley and cuddling
No.5060
>>5059>she doesn't understand men can be friendsIt's funny because "they are just bros to me" is how I used to deflect a ship that used to run up against my OTP (before it was so neglected in canon that it fell off entirely hehe). Of course we understand that men can be friends, certainly better than they understand that men and women can be friends too.
No.5061
>>5059Posts like this are made by insecure as fuck dudes that are angry that they cannot go to the cinema with their best friend anymore because women might think that they're gay.
That's really what all of their life revolves around. To get a gf. I have literally seen these people talking about NOT doing anything with their fucking FRIEND because some passengers or the ticket agent might think that they're gay and if people assume that they're gay it means that their chances of getting a gf are lowered. These people are so easy to read and so fucking dumb.
If there is one red flag it's this. I would never be friends with a guy that refuses to hang around with men or anybody paranoid about gayness. It's a sure sign for rightoid incel mentality.
No.5062
>>5059the scrote in the picrel even has the trademark victim complex in which they go about it too,
look what they have done ;((( the brotherhood doesnt exist anymore ;(( its so whiny and pathetic, theyre also over 20 years late to the party acting like slash isnt one of the backbones of fandoms and has been a huge thing ever since the 60s with star trek, but ofc they wouldnt know since despite the "geeky guy" stereotype, women have always been way more involved in fandom than men, and now we cross online spaces with these casuals since yesterday dudes that should actually just go back
No.5065
>>5059you can smell the hypocrisy in these types bc they will also constantly move goalpoasts, like they will claim there is no problem with shipping, as long as you actually dont believe that your m/m ship is canon, and then that it is okay to think so as long as you dont "push it down everyone's throat".
by that they mean they get mad uncomfortable when a girl makes a meta analysis of her slash ship bringing up points that suggest why it might actually be read as a canonically romantic dynamic because it makes the threat of their self insert op shonen characters being gay and/or in love with each other all the more real and the seethe goes off the charts.
No.5066
>>5054>This totally sounds like the post of a 1/5 "Asian" US citizen and not an actual Japanese or Chinese fan.She's black actually, I just think them applying a thing that's way more common with Asians to white women only is funny.
>Everytime I hear anything about its fandom it's about infighting and cringe flame wars.Same, Star wars fans are fuckin crazy.
No.5067
>>5059This is the same type of men who say that Gojo and Geto are straight platonic friends but started shipping them when there were two or three panels of Geto as a sexy female nurse later in the manga. I already couldn't take them seriously before that but seeing these posts online from them of all people sealed the deal.
No.5070
>>5067lol gojo and geto are exactly who i was thinking of, and i can see why someone would see them as friends since i think their relationship can also be interpreted that way, but they are one of the few shonen m/m pairings which you can seriously wonder about.
the only thing that would redeem the raging dudebros denying they were sexing is that most of the possible romance between them is heavily subtextual and males arent good with subtext, and neither care about digging into it, much less when it comes to shipping.
but that's no excuse since a good chunk of the female part of the fandom has been presenting the evidence since forever and it only serves for them to mald more, so it's yet another case of not wanting the characters to be gay rather than "not seeing it"
No.5071
>>5059I can just tell this dude always has that C.S. Lewis friendship quote pic ready for posting at any given moment.
No.5072
>>5070samefag bc otp mentioned and i can never stfu about them but the geto female nurse thing was the cherry on top.
it really showed how the only thing preventing scrotes from shipping or at least tolerating a pairing that has "canonical evidence" (as they so often like to bring up) or an interesting dynamic is the fact they both have dicks.
as a fujo i have f/f ships and het ones as well and while i'm generally more passionate about slash for various reasons, i still look at things with open eyes and an open heart. i'm almost past the point of disliking this type of fandom plague and just feeling lucky im not as emotionally dry as a desert like they are.
No.5073
>>5067Kek exactly, you constantly see these guys admitting two guys would be a good ship if one of them was female. It happens all the time with Naruto and Sasuke, even with the arguments over which of them should be the girl mirroring fujo top/bottom arguments to a T. Sometimes they do actually admit the popular slash makes sense, which I've seen before with Tanjiro and Giyuu. (Kanao is pretty much a female version of him already to be honest)
No.5074
>>5072It's probably some fragility thing. The thought of themselves (aka a man) being in the receiving position scares these types of people and make them defensive. It might be vaguely similar to the feeling a woman feels seeing female characters being reduced to trophies. It's annoying, but in that case the issue is systemic. Nobody would complain some token waifu if like 95% of fictional women were written as proper, non-sexualised characters that survive the bechtel test. That aside, what makes those stereotypes so shit is that they don't even have an own agenda besides wanting to be the devote waifu. An issue gay pairings are also missing and one of the main reasons for why I usually prefer gay pairings over het ones.
Anyway, the feeling is similar, just that it's paranoid. Probably due to not being used to it? Which means that we just need even more gays, until dudebros get used to it and calm down. And yeah it's funny. They also only casually accept gayness if the uke is a literal girly shota or femboy because this is the ONLY type of gay man they don't consider a danger to their ass lol
No.5076
>>5074yeah, i agree nona. idk how's the overall sentiment regarding radical feminism here as im new (CC refugee) but as andrea dworkin theorized, homophobia is an extension of misogyny as are all other forms of oppression.
being sexually "feminized" equals for men a loss of the power they are intrinsically granted socially purely for being born a man. they get a high off dominating women in bed and, almost by extension, outside of it. homosexuality is in a lot of ways a literal threat to the establishment because it challenges the oldest form of hierarchical power among humans, cue political lesbians and conservacucks being strongly against gays.
thats why men spaz out specifically more over certain m/m dynamics and character tropes rather than other ones… good observation!
No.5079
>>5070>>5073I forgot to say but tbh while there are a lot of men like this with this pairing, I've also seen cases of men not liking that Gojo in particular might be into men but admit it's not impossible based on the manga or the anime, so instead of saying that "Gojo and Geto aren't gay for each other" they argue that "Gojo is my goat so he wouldn't take it up the ass" and/or "Geto should have been a woman". There are a few guys who changed their minds too at some point, I wish I had a screenshot but there was a tweet from a shonentard when season 2 started saying that maybe the shippers were right all along because he'd never do all that shit for his male friends compared to what Gojo does with Geto kek
By the way, is it me or is it the reverse with Megumi? I've seen so many men saying he might as well be Yuji's tsundere heroine/love interest because of the last arc I was kinda shocked.
No.5080
>>5071>>5078Funny how people never take this stance with m/f ships. A thing puts a female character and male character next to each other and people immediately see it as a justified true love yet two characters of the same sex are simply best friends and you're the creep for ~sexualizing~ it which in itself is just a continuation of the "homosexuality is degeneracy and a fetish" narrative. Male and female characters can never be just platonic friends to these people and whenever you bring it up they just say "well 95% of the world is heterosexual so of course they can be more than friends!" like that was supposed to end the discussion. My sibling in christ they are not real.
No.5081
>>5079oh yeah, the fandom has two very different approaches when it comes to itafushi and satosugu lol.
aidens lose their shit over itafushi because it's underage or whatever, as if gojo and geto weren't in hidden inventory arc which is where their whole thing comes from to begin with, but somehow they are much more okay with them save for the occasional "sexualize adult gojo and adult geto instead!" mental ward tweet.
while i've never seen dudebros actively supporting itafushi i think i did come across a couple of posts like that, of them joking over megumi being yuji's heroine lol
they seem to be on way less of a crusade against itafushi as opposed to satosugu and i can think of a few reasons why, but i'm not entirely sure about them tbh. what are your theories nona?
No.5082
>>5071>>5078I hate this quote. Ships are made up of fictional fucking characters. They are not real. They are a concept in your head. Fanworks are transformative fiction
No.5086
>>5082I like this quote because I read it like
>>5078 as being about IRL platonic friendships. The folly is people taking these broad statements about real-life relationships and applying them to an entire fictious work.
I WILL ship Narnia characters and respect Lewis' quote at the same time.
No.5087
>>5080I've seen people ship the first girl who shows up in a series at all with the MC because it's literally unthinkable to them that a woman could be introduced into a show without being a love trophy. Like you don't know a single thing about her and you're shipping it but then have the audacity to turn around and shame fujos for shipping a gay pair who actually speak and interact and have story ties. Hell, they shame us up until a point where they see a random genderbend art of a male character and then it "suddenly" clicks for them that its the best pairing. It's bizarre.
No.5092
>>5081From what I've seen they're ok with it with Megumi because he's a "bum" and not their "goat" so he can take it up the ass without it affecting his manliness and hype level. So they're tolerating itafushi and sukufushi.
No.5095
>>5087>Hell, they shame us up until a point where they see a random genderbend art of a male character and then it "suddenly" clicks for them that its the best pairing. Kek, reminds me of all those Guts x Griffith shippers who started shipping them after seeing that genderbent Griffith art.
No.5127
>>5059I'm pretty sure if you were to turn Frodo into a female hobbit, people would absolutely be saying he was treating female frodo like that out of romantic love and not out of pure friendship.
No.5129
Why are yuri fans always shitting on fujos now? Every account for Yuri on twitter has to bitch about fujos and start a new war every week. They're always the ones starting shit but it's fujos who still get a bad name.
No.5130
>>5053>I also think it's funny how the most toxic yuri can get before they get scared is Homura and Madoka. No yuri ugly bastards or weird fetishes or anything you would see in a generic BLVNit's because they're scared of liking weird shit, or god forbid making content of it. This kind of yurifag (mostly found on xitter) only like the most vanilla, hand-holding paint drying yuri. And the "toxic" yuri they like is like, character B and character A are enemies to lovers…or character B manipulated character A once before redemption. It's so fucking boring. I blame how there's this weird crusade happening in fandom spaces now where everything has to be "unproblematic" and sanitized and NO PORN ALLOWED!!! even tho the same people who say shit like this (minors) will create alt accs to look at fucked up porn. It's all about looking righteous and a "good guy" for their 100 followers
>no loli yuri>no oneeloli yuri/ big age gaps (the most they can handle is 2 years of age gap)>no actual abuse>no rape>no sexAnd at that last part i gotta say…i think one of the reasons there's barely any actual lesbian porn of characters out there is because between two girls there's no dick. And a cock makes things very interesting (cumming inside, pregnancy, all that jazz) and since most of these artists never had lesbian sex, they can't really draw something they know nothing about. It's easier in yaoi when there's two dicks and one goes into a hole and it's done. And if they DO draw actual futa they HAVE to imply or say that one of characters is trans because futa is a big no-no nowadays
No.5131
>>5130(Saged cause tangent) I'm no yurifag, but the thought of loli yuri really scratches an itch… I will disrupt the yurisphere.
I doubt I'd draw it myself but I would love someone to draw some ugly bastard yuri for the novelty of it. Idk, 40 year old fat lunch lady luring in student as a comfortable older lady to vent to and then pulling out the strap after school. hm
No.5132
>>5130This reminds me of a post I saw on tumblr many years ago when it was still my primary platform. I can't literally retell it but it went something along the lines of "Back in early western internet fandom yuri also had dark content like sailor moon fics where the villainesses would rape the protags but the yuri purity crusade worked better than in fujoshi spaces so it's become normalised for yuri to be sanitised."
No.5133
>>5130>there's barely any actual lesbian porn of characters out there is because between two girls there's no dickI honestly believe this is the core reason why there's very little full-on degenerate yuri content like ugly bastard/rape/etc. While it's true people moralfag way more over yuri, there's just a lack of super taboo stuff in general even when only looking at Japanese fandom where people have 0 hang ups with that type of stuff. You can't really claim it's because having a female character makes it hit close too home either because female authored hetshit doesn't have this problem (just look at Reylo). As a yurifag myself I have accepted 99% of people just find lesbian sex boring which is why they have to shoehorn futa garbage in all the time and the retarded ABO brainrot took over.
No.5134
>>5132interesring, imo yuri needing to be "pure" is probably due to the audience being mainly male, and men watch irl porn. then they come to fandom spaces with their rocks already got off and preach about cuddles and romance like the hypocrites they are lol
women are potentially okay with yuri in a way men arent with yaoi so yuri can have a wider appeal, and yet yaoi's popularity dunks on yuri any day.
so that's how well that sanitization thing is working for them, and then they cry about the lack of content, lol
No.5135
>>5133I strongly agree with this as a person that finds lesbian sex really boring. But I also want to argue in the opposite direction because there is so much sexy art of women solo, without any men, I feel like it should be easy to just…multiple it by two? I'm aware that's not really how art or peoples hearts work, so don't take what I said with any weight.
No.5136
>>512970% of them are male-born transbians and the rest are actual teenagers who were taught by these dick-having "lesbians" that fujos are out to get them and they're all lesbophobic misogynists withholding lesbian porn from them. If you ever stop to actually take a look at the profiles of those people complaining about the lack of WLW fanfic compared to MLM for example, chances are that they have pronouns on bio. So it's just men hating on fujos for not pandering to their dick and their handmaidens like usual.
No.5137
>>5130>>5133As a lesbian I actually have to admit that lesbian sex is indeed pretty "boring" from the observer's point of view, watching fingers or tongue being used isn't really as intense and dominating as fucking someone from behind while pinning them down for example. Every time I've tried drawing NSFW yuri it just ends up looking goofy and awkward without a strap, I'm simply not a fan of the delicate pussy tickling and kissing while the flowers bloom around them, especially because I associate yuri with underage teenage girl characters all the time which is a huge turnoff to me. Some Korean GL webtoons have had pretty intense NSFW moments between adult characters but just like their BL they're all ugly and have the worst writing imaginable so dried up that alley as well.
No.5138
>>5136>70% of them are male-born transbiansexactly, and since men are still men no matter what pronoun they slap on their cringe twitter bios, they will still have a male brain.
men dont care about shipping and many other fandom activities that are the backbone of the fujo community so yuri never gets the same engagement yaoi does.
you wont see men writing meta about yuri ships or drawing fanart that isnt either some fetish nightmare that'd be totally interchangeable character-wise as long as it's women, or the regurgitated ai tier shit of "anime girls, but what if cat ears???" over and over again.
i wonder if their motives for crying about wanting the kind of content fujos have is purely out of spite, and not because they actually have any kind of interest in it, because in that case their fandom spaces would already have been shaped that way by their own hands imo
No.5139
>>5138>i wonder if their motives for crying about wanting the kind of content fujos have is purely out of spiteThe answer is: yes. It's a game of numbers to them and they want to powertrip over women, nothing more, nothing less. Less "WLW" fics means they're "losing the battle" even though none of them wants to read fanfics but just goon to NSFW fanart that's already of abundance.
No.5140
>>5137Yeah I don't blame OSA women for finding it boring. I just wish they didn't try to pretend to like F/F at all then because you can blatantly tell they have to force themselves to like it by adding a penis somehow kek. You even have people labelling their penis and vagina "yuri" fanart as scissoring now. I'm probably taking it too seriously but it's just annoying and feels like they're unintentionally rubbing it in everyone's faces how lame lesbian sex is to them.
>>5136Every time the F/F vs M/M debate comes up without fail I always see troons involved. It's literally the only time you'll see them on the female side of fandom. They're basically no different from the old school male yuritards who complain 24/7 at the mere sight of male characters existing. Except they go beyond bothering creators of IPs but also yaoi fans minding their own business now.
No.5142
>>5129>Why are yuri fans always shitting on fujos now? Every account for Yuri on twitter>on twitterFuck twitter, it's shit. Nobody gives a singular fuck irl, the day I will see fujoshi and himejoshi cause a fist fight in a con or fan event is the day I will start caring, but in the meantime I will simply keep avoiding reading or watching yuri because I dislike it, block transbian twitter accounts on sight and I'll keep minding my own business. We all need to be more like vid related:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bw400AEEAqQ No.5143
>>5138>men dont care about shippingThey do but not the same way women to. Instead of writing fics and drawing doujinshi of their favorite pairings kissing and holding hands or fucking but in a romantic context they will talk about how canon their favorite pairing is the exact same way they talk about powerscaling and how Superman could beat Goku. If you don't remember how they argued over how Naruto or Bleach ended then a more recent example is how much they seethed when MHA and JJK ended without showing the characters dating each other. But these men tend to be into het ships.
No.5144
>>5143hmm, all i ever see is women and especially fujos presenting evidence of why their ship is canon in well organized twitter threads and tumblr blogs tbh. they also get upset when their ships are wrecked or threatened by canon, i do that too lol
while i agree that men can be somewhat into shipping as well, and exclusively het ships as you said, i'd say it's way more casual and in passing compared to the devotion for shipping women have. it's also very juvenile and cliché, they don't even like unique straight pairings with interesting dynamics, it's always "who is the most mary sue of the female cast and who is the strongest out of the guys".
i believe they dont have any emotional investment in these couples and just see them as a means of asserting their masculinity self insert fantasies. it's reassuring for them to see the big shonen hero start a family with the dummy pretty girl because that's the future they envision for themselves
the closest ive seen to men getting seriously invested in shipping is when fujos ship m/m parings in shonen and dudebros cry about it by debunking the ship if the material allows to do so (as if pairing up characters is about if they're a canonical couple lol). if the subtext between the two guys is abundant or there isn't any real way to prove they are straight they immediately go for the toddler throwing tantrum strategy and cry about the sacrednesd of male friendship and whatnot
No.5145
>>5143Shipping for men is basically the same as sports gambling. It's about winning the bet that a specific girl will win, backing the right horse.
No.5146
>>5144>i believe they dont have any emotional investment in these couples and just see them as a means of asserting their masculinity self insert fantasies.That's pretty much it, but many of them still get invested enough to sperg that their favorite 80 volumes long shonen manga was actual garbage all along because the MC got married to one main girl instead of the other main girl for months. It all depends on where on the internet you see male fans, they're either casual about it or obsessed.
>when fujos ship m/m parings in shonen and dudebros cry about it by debunking the ship if the material allows to do soThese guys are so insecure nowadays that they consider the MHA an actual win for fujoshi. Even when they try to argue that a gay ship isn't canon they sometimes don't even believe it themselves anymore or call manga for boys and men fujobait without even seeing any female fans first. All I know about how MHA ended is that
the main characters are still somewhat in touch with each other except with Deku, but Deku's former tsundere bully reached out to him to buy him some expensive super hero equipment, and Deku is single so that's a reach but hey whatever. At least with JJK I can see why they'd think it's a win for fujoshi because
Sukuna dies after a bunch of guys told him stupid shit about teaching him the power of love for dozens of chapter, sees his dead assistant or whatever Uraume is, and decided that when they're reincarnated they'll stay together and they hold hands the last time we see them. At the same time Gege confirmed that Uraume was a man all along except when he was reincarnated in someone else's body. So at least there's something kinda gay going on here and it's not too surprised that men are insecure about that.
>>5145I actually was going to compare them to football hooligans but thought comparing their specific brand of autism to powerscaling would be a bit more telling since they tend to do that as well.
No.5147
>>5144>more casual and in passing compared to the devotion for shipping women have. it's also very juvenile and clichéI noticed that too. It basically always amounts to imagining two characters as the generic trad couple even if it's completely ooc for both characters. I don't even understand why they like unique female characters since their shipping fantasies always amount to "correct her by turning her into a generic loving housewife". So the reason for why they like tomboys or crazy fems is often just about "fixing".
It's probably common among yumes too, but with fujo I mostly see them loving characters the way they are. I WANT my crazy morally ambiguous trash men to stay as shit as they are, I love them because of that.
But that aside, the shipping itself is uninspired among male fans. I have never once seen any of them implementing a ship into an interesting story or dynamic. Fujos can write whole epics about a pairing and the world they live in.
No.5148
>>5146>>5144One of the strangest things about male fans is that they never give a shit about male characters that aren't the MC. Even dudebros often stay distanced when fujos are shipping two dudes as long as the MC isn't involved. They are incapable of caring and relating to other males for some reason. They only immerse if they are in the center as the MC and imagine to be him.
I visit so many threads where fujos openly post gay art and it's all chill until one posts anything with the MC and only then do the dudes chimp out and argue. It's such a foreign concept to me as someone that always loved and related to side characters the most. A MC can be good, but relating to them for no other reason than the role as MC is so alien to me.
It makes me feel like most male fans don't even watch anime for the story, characters or anything else. They just watch it in the hopes of getting another shlog depicting some imaginary future in which they (the MCs of real life) are super strong and marry the nextbest girl. They could just rewatch the same anime then since the characters obviously don't matter but they somehow need confirmation over and over again.
No.5149
>>5138I really do think that 80-90% of "himejoshi" are troons. Their minds are male and think that fanfiction and romantic shipping is boring. However desperate the heterosexual AGP troon is to invade female spaces, he can't make himself like BL. So troons get insecure and jealous of actual female spaces and whine when fujos don't write bland school girl yuri fanfiction for them. It's all about pure waifu blobs to self-insert into, not character dynamics or anything interesting. Another large chunk of yuri fans are straight women who try to LARP as lesbians and hate on fujos like picrel. They pretend that the lack of f/f content is because of sexism.
>>5145>>5147Men are interested in the technical lore of fandom and powerlevel shit. Women breathe creative life into fandom with art and stories.
No.5150
>>5135>>5137I feel like the censorship laws in Asian countries regarding genitals affects depictions of vaginas more harshly than penises, because with the latter at least you get the lightsaber to represent the general shape but with the former the entire thing is blotted out which detracts a lot from the sex scenes.
No.5151
>>5148this is so true, and i believe it's because in most anime MCs tend to serve a self insert purpose by being fairly more generic than the others.
seeing the MC being gay probably makes the straightoid male feel worse.
i think that there are few exceptions to this, like in jjk. dudebros lose their shit over the implication that gojo might be in love with geto, and dont care much about yuji being shipped with other male characters (comparatively at least, these men still hate BL regardless).
so i feel like it's also a question of the character's power level. the more the character is powerful while simultaneously being generic, the strongest the seethe will be because that is their ideal self insert material
No.5152
>>5149I think so too. You get the opposite with female trannies. Even if their headcanons are shit they always obsess about the personalities of the characters and what they do and feel, which is inherently feminine. I even know normal women that are 100% boyish regarding behavior, most hobbies and everything but the ONE thing that reveals their gender online (they don't use pronouns or anything) is the shipping. Men can't ship, they can only fawn about sex with a character and it's always them + the character, even with yuri.
Notice how aggressively anti-male yuri fags often are, including 2D men that don't even threaten their pairing. Obsessive hatred against the own gender is common with trannies so I believe that they are trannies. Even women that don't like men don't bring this up in an anime discussion and sperg about hating some random male characters. It sounds more like a mental issue.
I also cannot imagine normal women to be that obsessed with "uwu WHAMAN" crap. Women relate to characters and stories, so they will always thematize conflicts they can relate with or consider spicy. Men only see characters as fuck bait so a story pissed them off since it distracts from cooming. This is why fans of historical series and dark shit are often predominantly women, whereas men desire fluffy SoL and ecchi nonsense.
No.5153
>>5151Yes I think you generally have a lower male fanbase whenever the MC is more defined or unique. It's a sure way to attract women by making both, the main male and the main female character unique and give them strong characterization. There are men that still watch and enjoy a show for the characters and plot, but they aren't fans they are casual viewers. The fans/otaku will avoid it since they fail to insert or be interested in the girl the second the characters are properly defined.
>the more the character is powerful while simultaneously being genericYeah this can happen. It's always wish-fulfillment powers + blandness.
No.5154
>>5152>they always obsess about the personalities of the characters and what they do and feelliterally how i clocked a he/him girl lol
>Even women that don't like men don't bring this up in an anime discussionexactly, as a misandrist anime boys are usually my exception, because well, they don't exist, and i can headcanon all i want. dont even need to most of the time because they're virtuos and idealized in the canon material anyways. i make husbandos out of them
>This is why fans of historical series and dark shit are often predominantly women, whereas men desire fluffy SoL and ecchi nonsensethis shit needs to be studied academically. i feel like while both genders have an inclination for escapism, women ultimately take a cathartic approach to media and aren't afraid to explore their own feelings and work through their shadows as a means of self improvement, whereas men seem to just want to boil less painfully in their own juices by getting self assured through minimally complicated stuff that confirms their ideal version of the world
No.5155
>>5152>Men only see characters as fuck bait so a story pissed them off since it distracts from cooming. This is why fans of historical series and dark shit are often predominantly women, whereas men desire fluffy SoL and ecchi nonsenseFemale fantasies are more realistic for lack of a better word. We will analyze a character's flaws and set up a story that's justified through internal characterization. Men are allergic to ugly women. Their fantasy is to fuck a perfect waifu. Trannies are very telling with this and can't even see women as people instead of masturbation props. It's so easy to clock a troon just based on username and bio.
>girl lesbian girl girl girl im a useless lesbian im a dumb puppy girl girl girl estrogen boob girl No.5156
>>5155>We will analyze a character's flaws and set up a story that's justified through internal characterizationi agree, women will often view characters' flaws as something endearing or hot and work with what they have instead of aggressively defending an imaginary version of aforementioned characters that is more suitable to a perfect partner
>It's so easy to clock a troon just based on username and biothis enrages me to no end because i'm a stereotypically feminine woman into pink and cutesy shit and whatnot, and i get self conscious about seeming like a troon online.
i once saw a quote that said something along the lines of "the world accepted men as women before accepting women as women" in reference to how women arent allowed to express themselves however they want without being chastized for it one way or another, whereas men can freely troon out and be praised for wearing diapers and gooning.
i hate how men managed to take everything away from women
No.5157
>>5130They always cancel a yuri author for writing problematic themes and then brag about how himejoshi are better because they don't get off on rape.
No.5160
>>5154>women ultimately take a cathartic approach to media and aren't afraid to explore their own feelings and work through their shadows as a means of self improvement, whereas men seem to just want to boil less painfully in their own juicesExactly. I noticed this a lot when I read shouunen or seinen by women, namely Beastars and Dorohedoro, to name some famous examples. It's very obvious that the women channels something through the manga here. In Beastars Haru even talks about it. She's so courageous because she's a little bunny in a world full of predatory carnivores. She realised that she's always in danger since carnivores/men view her as prey anyway so instead of getting paranoid she accepted reality and goes full YOLO. And despite being funny Dorohedoro has so much dark as fuck shit and horror going on that even 4chan thematized it.
Women are more likely to project a problem into fiction where they re-experience, analyses and overcome it in the form of characters they write or relate to (those characters can be male, it doesn't really matter). Fiction is a safe environment, so they might love things they are afraid of in real life. And it doesn't have to be 1:1. Like you can have experienced let's say war but project the terror of it into a giant dragon or aliens.
Men strangely don't like this. Instead of having a MC face issues they have and relate they want the complete denial of problems and real life and have a cardboard cut-out doing everything they want to do, preferably without plot. Plot means that there has to be a conflict.
No.5161
>>5158Statements like this mean nothing without examples and the handles of said fic authors. Cis gays and trans women do not write fanfiction in the numbers cis women, trans men, and theyfabs do so I'd really like to see this list of the masters of eros they are talking about (I would bet a significant amount of money that most of them have a pussy).
No.5162
>>5130>the reasons there's barely any actual lesbian porn of characters out there is because between two girls there's no dickThis is it. It's because in reality they see yuri as safe environment for their waifus. You watch the waifus doing funny shit and maybe even touch each other but there is no threat of sex because to the male reader the real lover here isn't the other girl but them.
No.5163
>>5158This is the stupidest take ever. They have no way of knowing whether any of the shit fic they read was written by someone projecting/attracted to the characters. You can understand love, desire and, sex without wanting to fuck a specific character. Desire is an emotion like any other, image trying to apply this logic to any other character interactions. "Oh well, they wrote their rivalry poorly, like a rehearsed skit without any real emotion, they must clearly not feel any real hate towards the villain they're writing."
>And yes, it's a TIF. So just another woman claiming to be the "man" that truly understands yaoi and romances. I always feel confused by trans people pushing this narrative, because trans-ness is a state of mind essentially. If it's possible for you, someone who was formally a woman, and still with same body and mind to understand gay romance, why can't a cis woman? These types of essentialist arguments can only make sense out the mouth of someone cisgender.
No.5164
>>5158i dont even understand what point shes trying to make because it just reads like a word salad. saging
No.5165
>>5163Female socialization don't real. They think of themselves as retroactively 'always having been' male since the day they formed as a fetus, so they were never a woman at all, hence their attraction is real gay male attraction.
No.5166
>>5158Oh my god I saw this earlier today and I physically felt my brain taking damage reading something that's taking way too many fancy words only to convey the message "I can't comprehend erotica that isn't about self insertion in the moment" like this. I had to read it like three times to understand what she was trying to say because I didn't want to believe that someone would slap such big girl video essay words just to say something so mundane.
>Also in what world is "self-inserting and imagine to dick a fictional character" more "emotional" or "soft" than a person being empathic and understanding the feelings of two characters different from themselves?It's baffling. Like the concept of sympathy is foreign to them. The new generation simply can't just enjoy a story much less erotica without imagining that it's them that these actions are being done to or them committing these actions. Social media making everyone only concerned with themselves first and foremost has completely obliterated peoples' ability to read about concepts that don't directly involve them on a personal level. I feel like a boomer saying this but it is what it is. Who wants to bet that this person only consumes the Husbando x Reader (male) section on wattpad written by others like her?
>>5163>They have no way of knowing whether any of the shit fic they read was written by someone projecting/attracted to the characters.Exactly. They just assume that because self insertion is the only form of narrative they can consciously enjoy, so if they like something it must be some other he/him Aiden's work writing from a gay transmasc's point of view.
No.5167
>>5161My thought. With the many fic writers nowadays identifying as trans it's probably just all women. I myself like a few writers a lot who are/pretend to be trans but write actual gay sex. There are probably way more if I would look everybody up assuming I even find the account on twitter.
I would be genuinely surprised if there was just one gay man among those alleged fic authors she's thinking of.
No.5168
>>5163>You can understand love, desire and, sex without wanting to fuck a specific characterAnd even if you do many writers prefer shipping canon characters on principle. I would never want to be part of a story. It's cringe IMO and why would I even want to pair some heroic warrior or goddess up with myself, some nobody from real life?
Self-inserting is principally dragging stories down because the PoV will always be the author and I always cringe when a scene sounds like the author was writing about his/her private sex life, it's a super strong off turn to me. I want cool canon character x cool canon character whose feelings can be explored and who are part of an interesting setting.
The fact that the twitter poster doesn't understand this is baffling.
>If it's possible for you, someone who was formally a womanShe isn't even that. She says she had no surgery or anything. I searched her twitter for "trans" and this was the first post popping up. So she isn't even any different from normal women. It's so stupid. She even uses the trans reveal as "gotcha" as if it wasn't invalidating everything she said.
No.5169
>>5158People not being able to enjoy fiction without self-inserting in some way is the cause of 99% of discourse. From muh representation dumbassery to anti/proship shit. There was this folklore artist who was basically having a mental breakdown on Twitter because people were sexualizing her characters, and if you don't like it that's fair, but at some point you have to recognize when things blow up it's out of your control and you need to stop personally identifying with 2D. They literally see themselves as these characters and take any wrongdoing against them as a personal attack, that's why retards sperg out over noncon and fujos because they think someone getting off to yaoi rape = "I find your trauma hot" when no one gives a fuck or even knows them. It's just solipsistic to an unreal degree.
>>5163They don't perceive themselves as ever being women in the first place, they were always men even before they knew they were trans. Which makes their hatred of "cis women fujos" even more retarded because these people acknowledge the fujo to TIF pipeline and credit yaoi for "cracking their egg" so why can't you just argue these women are trannies too but don't know it yet?
No.5171
>>5166>I had to read it like three times to understand what she was trying to sayGlad I am not the only one. I absolutely didn't get what she means with the opening post. It's meant to be some big reveal that yaoi writers want to see a character they like getting fucked. It's so obvious that I didn't get that she didn't get it until seeing that post. Of course. What else should it be? This actually makes me wonder if she even engaged with yaoi before a year ago or so.
Also since someone asked, the fics she loves apparently have her fav "ravaged" and "fucked raw" which doesn't sound like the super emotional soft-fics she shitposts about. The only fic link I found before getting tired is this one:
https://archiveofourown.org/works/56968753If you're an interview with a vampire fag you can give it a go lmao
No.5176
>>5155>Men are allergic to ugly women. Their fantasy is to fuck a perfect waifu.This really hit me back when I still played Fate/grand order years ago and noticed how you'd get the occasional older male character like William tell or Moriarty and never an older woman, as far as I can remember. Not trying to imply that older women are ugly myself, but that there was probably a conscious choice made that your average gacha-spending male wouldn't be interested in female characters who aren't conventionally attractive anime girls.
No.5178
>>5174>kinit's always self-inserters, actually kin are even worse because they full buy in being the character they like.
It's just an insecure woman, nothing new.
No.5179
>>5174She's saying that gay/bi men (most likely TIFs like her) write the best yaoi fics because she believes "they self insert" and that women are incapable of writing good erotica unless it's lesbian women writing yuri fanfics. Her rambling word salad makes no sense so that's my best interpretation of it.
No.5180
>>5179TIFs try not to shit on other women challenge (impossible)
No.5182
>>5168＞She isn't even that. She says she had no surgery or anything
I'm sure, and that supports what I'm thinking even more. An essentialist argument that only "gay men can understand gay romance" shouldn't make sense to them. If a brain that can understand gay romance, that can even be a man by their logic, can come from a females body, why is ever other woman exempt? Why does no one else have that ability they do, to understand? It's giving chunibyo.
>>5169>Which makes their hatred of "cis women fujos" even more retarded because these people acknowledge the fujo to TIF pipeline and credit yaoi for "cracking their egg" so why can't you just argue these women are trannies too but don't know it yet?Exactly, exactly what I'm getting at. They know any woman around them could come out as transmen, so they know at the base they're all the same, so why make such a stark division of who is capable of what?
And I know they answer is they're stupid, but damn, I think I just expect more of adults.
No.5184
>>5182>complain about fetishistic cishet women writing yaoi>claim only gay men can accurately write gay romance>claim BL made them realize their attraction to men is actually gay >BL is authored by le evil straight wonen they hate so muchI honestly don't fucking get these TIFs because on one hand they'll claim straight women are incapable of understanding homosexuality, and then on the other admit they identify as trans because of yaoi. Do none of them see this contradiction or do they just think BL authors like Harada are secretly trans too?
No.5187
>>5184Kek funny you should bring that up because due to a translation error people thought Harada was a man at first and really celebrated her as le ackshual true and honest cis male BL mangaka. They have a very specific kind of pickme brainrot.
No.5190
>>5184I just want to know if they realize actual gay porn for gay men is usually stuff like Hadaka Shitsuji or Gengoroh Tagame's manga
No.5191
>>5169>People not being able to enjoy fiction without self-inserting in some way is the cause of 99% of discourse. From muh representation dumbassery to anti/proship shit.This. Everytime I meet an anti-shipper it's always as self-inserter. ALWAYS.
One of the most notorious ones of the fandom I am in does it so blatantly that she (she's T and I don't know which type, but I assume TIF since she ships yaoi) literally draws the non-Asian white (not white the race, white the color) alien character she self-inserts into as brown, transman Asian (she is US-American and only n% South-Eastern Asian so fuck knows if she's even a PoC in real life). So of course are these people more likely to lose their shit. Shipping her husbando with someone else basically means NTR her.
No.5192
>>5176>as far as I can rememberNo you are right. They don't exist. And this is why women latch onto male characters even when they aren't shipping. Women in anime in particular are limited to lolis and girls that look like 14 at max. Meanwhile there is a huge variety of men. Two recent series that I enjoyed otherwise have this same exact problem. 80% male characters of all types including 40+ year old dudes and elegant men with gray hair and not a single adult woman LMAO - FGO is just another blatant example for this.
I mean hell the MCs of SAILOR MOON look more mature than the majority of modern female anime characters. We will never get cool older women like pic related anymore. Sorry for posting an OT pic, but I like her design and it IMO shows that you can create cool-looking older women too.
>>5179What makes the post dumber is that she has no way of telling who is even trans and non-binary and who is cis. I for once never use pronouns and don't reveal my gender or age online and a lot of AO3 writers have user names they don't use anywhere else. So how does she know? She probably just virtue signals into the void, against some invisible enemy. Bet most of the fics she loves are written by cis women.
No.5195
>>5192Every yuri anime is about highschool girls. They can't make anything with adult women in the cast, while there's more options for homo content with adult men. I don't know why yuri fans hate anything with adult women that isn't boring slice of life.
No.5196
>>5195Didn't they get g-witch? Though I can't think of much else, even if it's got a darker atmosphere like akuma no riddle it's still high school girls.
No.5197
>looking for random discord servers to join for funsies because i'm bored
>join random "yaoi/yuri" server
>noticed caption is one of those emoji-heavy "i love yuri lesbians and yaoi gays" rants
>run by minors
>"no proshippers"
>server owner calls me a retard for saying bl and yaoi are the same thing
>get banned
kek i'm not even mad. went about just how i thought it would
No.5198
>>5197Shoulda called em ableist.
No.5202
>>5191>Shipping her husbando with someone else basically means NTR her.Hate to get into the pro/anti discourse but this is genuinely how 90% of the "anti" mindset works, starting from the Voltron days when it was very obvious that the Klance shippers who really hated Sheith and called it a grooming pedoship where self-inserting into Keith hard and didn't want to be fucked by an older man but the cute teenage boy. That's why they practice shipping on such an obsessive, personal level.
>>5176>>5192Also the lolibaba trope exists literally to subvert the problem of needing an older woman for lore reasons, they just add in a female character that looks like a 14-year old and make up a bullshit reason why she's actually 800 years old and totally an old granny. When I was still playing I too hated how FGO kept pushing the old man agenda all the time yet not once gave us a female character with a wrinkle on her face but pulled all these retarded lore reasons why male historical figures respawn as 12-year old girls.
No.5203
>>5202>Klance shippers who really hated Sheith and called it a grooming pedoship where self-inserting into Keith hardThat makes so much sense now that you said it. I was a Klance shipper when VLD had just came out and only ever watched up to season 2. But I never once thought Sheith was grooming or gross, I was just not into them. I thought it must've just been a tactic used to promote Klance over Sheith, but them being self-inserters makes even more sense to why it was pushed so hard as a groomer ship.
No.5204
>>5203AYRT and yeah, I used Klance vs Sheith simply because it's widely regarded as the original breeding grounds for the "antis vs proships" discourse, I personally had no horse in that race. It still applies in many fandoms today, antis are very often extreme self-inserters who want to protect their kinnie of choice from anything they consider disgusting and are unable to separate the character from their own persona. A lot of anti-fujo women are like this too, as
>>5191 said they see themselves being cucked by seeing their husbando being shipped with a man since they can't self-insert into a male character at all or consider him being emasculated by it.
No.5205
>>5202>>5203That would also explain the people saying that "fiction is/affects reality" to participate in ship wars. This is typical self insert bullshit.
No.5206
>>5195I don't think it's just a yuri problem, almost every anime and manga is like that. Like as an example, I enjoy GGO right now, it's IMO a decent series overall and the in-game designs are cool, but it's so fucking seeing how 90% of the cast looks like 12 year old girls IRL regardless of the gender and age of the player character.
And how many het romance anime do we have where the woman looks like a toddler? Holy hell. There was this office show few seasons back with a normal dude that looked like 30 and his LI who has the loli body type AND behaves like a young girl.
The premise is that she's an adult who looks like a kid and the funny situations this is causing. Per se, this is fine! But she is clearly written like a girl and so I doubt that this is the real intention behind it. To me it's just the common fetish in disguise.
And isn't there a current or upcoming anime about a wife that dies and returns to her husband after being reborn? Of course she's still a kid then, because not much time has passed. This is so obvious and honestly disgusting. I am not even condemning shota and loli fags per se. But with men and loli it always has this predatory undertone that I don't really witness among shota fags.
The majority of female shota fans pair the shota up with another shota and the rest usually pairs him with an older dude not do I often see the shota being the dominant part, the adult dude isn't a self-insert anyway, so the framing is completely different and women always like BOTH men in a m/m ship whereas otaku and others seem to be incapable of feeling attracted to anybody older than 16
No.5207
Some newer issue that pisses me off is how /a/ god suddenly flooded by tourists that believe that "fujo" meant "female fan".
No it fucking isn't and I am tired seeing some retard talking about yume and calling them fujo in every fucking thread these days. It only helps spreading more anti-fujo sentiments because half of the time they talk about yume it's something negative and I don't want to bear the burden for shit that other groups are doing.
I swear I barely ever encountered this on 4chan before, there must be one social media place that misuses the term that way and everybody using it adapts that shit without ever double checking. You cannot even make them understand because they heard it that way first so they refuse to change their language.
No.5212
>>5207It's not just /a/, I see this in all the gacha /vg/ threads like the genshit thread where even the thought of men taking the spotlight from their waifu must a fujo pandering conspiracy. Fujo and yumes are literally not the freaking same. Hell, I'll go out of a limb say they literally hate each other. If anything, they have more in common with yumes but because a woman likes a man that's not them, they're somehow in the same league?
No.5213
>>5212Yeah I think that thanks to social media memes newer anime fans use a lot of terminology wrong. Fujos are way more prolific than yume so the term fujo became the equivalent of "female fan", same as waifu means "anime girl I find attractive" to newfags.
I wouldn't care but there wasn't so much negativity related to yume. I don't want to get the blame for shit fujos never did. Just yesterday I saw someone bitching about an allegedly annoying sperg who happened to be a yume, but he called her "fujo", despite flooding social media with cringe self-shipping. Then another anon replied and claimed that fujos had bad taste, only to list examples of men they like that were without exception husbandos from otome series and het romances.
Many radical yume already hate fujos so I don't want to be the one being associated with their hobbies. Not talking about fans who are both yume and fujo. There are a lot of them and they're chill.
No.5215
>>5213I think the wildest thing about all this is the fact that a bunch of the “proship dni” accounts on bluesky I went through to find more lists are also self-shippers, aka yumes.
No.5216
>>5207>>5212>>5213It's an age-old problem. In the 00's literally every female otaku thing was filed under "yaoi", including reverse harems. If it had bishounens, it was "for yaoi fangirls". And thus every unhinged thing mentally ill yumes did raving about their husbandos was pinned on "yaoi fangirls". Fujos are just an easy target to blame about everything wrong in the fandoms and it's been like that since forever because they're the most flourishing community constantly creating their own content.
No.5217
>>5215Yumes who are honest will just directly say they hate seeing their husbando being gay, yume antis will instead come up with a reason the gay ship involving their husbando is problematic.
No.5226
>>5207it's always husbando enthusiastic yumes that get confused for fujos, because of their love for their husbando people think they are fujos, even tho fujos are actually more interested in shipping.
No.5232
>>5231Yeah you guys don't lol. Though as someone who's more shota tolerate than someone who actively seeks it out I don't understand why. Shota x shota is cuter imo and it's a shame every time I run into it in the wild it's clearly male-targeted porn.
No.5233
>>5231Really? Most shota fans I see like shota for the cuteness, same as moe fans with CGDCT.
Maybe I AM wrong though and I honestly find the shota/adult dynamic way more interesting (and Boku Dake was peak anime entertainment anyway), but I feel like it's very rare and I couldn't name more than three pairings for it whereas every series with two or more shota has fujos who are shipping them. I am not really into shota though so I don't actively seek it out and bringing an adult in is probably the only way to make me see the appeal. But still the shipping of HxH kids and Boku Academia whatever shota alone should have more fujos into it than all shota/adult pairings will ever have in the past and future together.
No.5237
>>5232Contrast between cute boy and handsome man I guess, it’s kinda like an upgraded version of the typical 2000s seme and uke.
>>5233 Maybe it’s because I don’t watch shounen and shounen fans are more into shipping the two shotas together? (Ie: Gon and Killua or whatever)
I’m just going off of what I see from doujins and the like though (especially with OCs I see more older man x shota and in pokemon stuff)
Also agreed Erased is peak for that type of ship.
No.5264
>>5196g-witch is still teen girls and it garnered an insufferable fanbase.
No.5276
>>5233I won't actively judge anyone for it, but it is something that I find uncomfortable and block and ignore any mutual who likes or retweets it, it's just too much
No.5289
>Anon so mad she ran to LC to make a post about proshippers
LMAO
No.5290
>>5289About the shota stuff here? I am not even into shota despite posting art here lmao I am just chill with everything fictional and save pretty pictures of series I like lmao. Fans should post more to make them madder. This site is anti-anti shipper.
No.5293
>>5289I really wish you guys would stop dragging LC drama back here.
No.5294
>>5293Don't get after me for someone attempting to put more negative attention there
No.5295
>>5294You don't need to come back here and report it to everyone else.
No.5325
>>5324I can honestly understand the frustration behind this because publishers have been more and more interested in this kind of wattpad fanfic slop while more ambitious stories are left in the dark and I would actually laugh at this if it wasn't for the fact that people will take and weaponize this rant against women just writing their dumb gay stories or the people agreeing this are cut from the same cloth but believe that THEIR wattpad fanfic slop should be the one being printed.
No.5327
>>5324>>5325I agree that these kinds of stories are garbage but what does this person want, a return to gay fiction being serious tragic litfic where no one is happy and the main characters die? Or do they just not want any gay fiction at all? There's even more straight fanfic tier YA novels.
No.5329
>>5324Also felt this was too mean. Tumblrtards noticed women use bisexual as a shield against anti-fujos and are back to shitting on women writing BL. I really wish we didn't have an obsession with identity politics here in America and could just write silly books by and for women like in Japan. I don't like Western BL or theatre kid humor, but a lot of these book actually do sell too. Was this written by a bitter TIF?
(I also personally don't get the westfag obsession with gay pirates but whatever)
No.5330
>>5324I admit this made me grin. Doesn't help that I know a person exactly like this who uses "Bisexual Disasters" as user name LMAO
I think the central problem is fiction written for the sole purpose of representing and validating a group and not because the author had a story to tell involving characters that happen to be gay.
We will never or rarely ever get the shit hets are flooded with in which a book with gays can just be an exciting stories involving gay characters opposed to a plot about gayness. Be it the classic dead gay or the modern cozzy uwu gay, both focus too much on the aspect of homosexuality instead of giving us something good with gays that are casually mentioned to lean onto each other while they're planning their next bank robbery.
No.5334
>>5330I wish we could get interesting plots without restriction. Western authors are obsessed with uwu fanfiction fluff and political correctness / "representation". It doesn't have to be classic bury your gays, but I want to see complex characters with moral weaknesses and plots that hook you in instead of fluffy dorky stuff all the time.
No.5335
>>5324The gummy smile stuff is mean but when you enter western fantasy spaces these kinda girlies are everywhere. The bloodbath that is booktwitter/tok sometimes gets onto my timeline and this is a pretty accurate parody.
>>5325These days I've seen more backlash against it than examples of the offending queer romantasy (which IMO is still overwhelmingly hetero). Your last two points are 100000% correct.
>>5330>casually mentioned to lean onto each other while they're planning their next bank robbery.As a shipfag this is what I prefer. I don't read romance, but I will absolutely go looking for the romance DLC on Ao3/pixiv when I'm done with something that stimulated the brainworms.
No.5336
>>5334When we do get those complex stories in the west, it's written by men.
No.5338
>>5336I rescind my statement. This used to be the case in the past, but I just looked and did find some newer western "bl" books with more complex stuff going on. They're not as mainstream as the uwu fluff stuff though.
No.5351
>>5324all i got from this is that americans are the problem. bomb america NOW
also wattpad, who even uses that anymore
No.5357
>>5324I hate to say it but it made me laugh because it reminded me of those authors who got caught pretending to be Chinese lesbians when they're white.
No.5634
>>5633Real fujos would not debase themselves with Riot products.
No.5636
>>5633>>5635I can smell the seething troons coming from these posts, one a TIM, the other a TIF
No.5637
>>5633My fav part of that thread is when they started literally saying that their evidence fujoshi are overfed in media content is because of "fanart and fanfiction", and would not accept anyone pointing out Arcane is a literal millions of $s TV series being entered for awards, and western TV constantly has lesbian couples in high visibility leading roles while you know… we got Cherry Magic's wonky noses. But I guess that's alright because we MADE OUR OWN CONTENT WITH OUR OWN TIME AND EFFORT TO FEED OURSELVES.
>>5635Is this the guy who pisses about in homothread about the true nature of women and how there's a conspiracy to mind control gay men?
No.5639
>>5637>Is this the guy who pisses about in homothread about the true nature of women and how there's a conspiracy to mind control gay men?Yeah probably him. He's probably just a troll but it's funny when even other guys are like 'what the fuck are you on about' when he claims that historical pederasty was actually all the fault of evil fujos.
No.5640
>>5637Also, some people were posting Viktor
dying and saying that we got "enough pandering". Jayce fucks a woman and Viktor is not only sorely traumatized and motivated by Sky's death but recreates her as a live-in spirit inside his mind space thing for the whole of S2. Then Jayce
kills Viktor as the finale that fucks everything up. I love Viktor and all but you have to be cruel to wholeheartedly ship him with such an idiot. I'd rather pair Jayce with Heimerdinger but the man's clever and replaced him with a younger model already.
No.5641
>>5633I genuinely believe that they think like that because they are the type of fake fan that barely ever interacts with canons so they are only seeing fanworks, and fanworks are mainly done by fujos. So they see twitter regularly getting flooded by fujo art without even being aware of the fact that less than 10% of the series depicted even feature canon gay, unlike the billion cartoon lesbians and yuri anime we have.
>>5635I wondered if these posts came from a shitposter that tried to derail the thread or a genuine idiot and I am still not any wiser. My closest guess it's an incel who's just seething at women.
No.5642
>>5636Eh, I could see the /tv/ post being from a guy who's just hypersensitive
The twitter one is 100% MTF though.
>>5637>Is this the guy who pisses about in homothread about the true nature of women and how there's a conspiracy to mind control gay men?No idea, that guy sounds funny though.
No.5643
>>5633How many actual gay men characters exist in western animation? The only one I can think of is in Voltron but that was a trainwreck. Maybe Fionna and Cake has one with Prince Gumball and Marshal Lee but I haven't watched that one yet.
No.5645
>>5635this is troll who shits up /a/ and /v/
No.5646
>>5641Addendum: I haven't read the replies like
>>5637 yet. Holy shit I hit the nail right into the head.
It's the only shit that ever made sense and it proves that these people are the annoying type of fans other nonnas have talked about in another thread today when they mentioned fans that never consumed canon and borrow their narrative from headcanons from other fans
>>5643We get some shoved in token gay background characters from time to time like the gay dads in Shera but they are never mentionworthy, only appear in two scenes maybe and nobody cares about them which is EXACTLY why they choose them. Get a token without offending anybody and make the fujos shut up.
No.5655
>>5647It's always so depressing seeing westerners fawning over this shit because some random uncles that appear like once and bear no relevance to the plot are gay because they literally told you because you wouldn't have been able to tell due to 0 chemistry. And yet they will get art and everybody on twitter will call it SO IMPORTANT when there is an anime airing right at the same time where two gays are kissing, another anime that is about action but has two side characters that are so fucking gay that even otaku call them so and two further anime that have at least male characters with good chemistry that are easy to ship, plus a gay game. But none of this will get any attention from the mass because it isn't airing on cartoon network or the crap instagram is advertising.
No.5659
>>5635Close but I also want to see chad get fucked in the ass kek. no male is exempt from getting beat up and raped.
No.5660
>>5643Off the top of my head:
Angel Dust
Voltron boys
Adventure time genderswaps
Smithers from Simpsons (Moe too in later seasons I think?)
The two dads in Allen Gregory
Craig and Tweek plus assorted South Park characters
Krazy Kat (in the comic and earliest cartoons before they decided to give him a girlfriend)
Ratburn in newest Arthur seasons (first male gay wedding in a kids show I think?)
The Twins and various inmates in Superjail.
The two cops in Gravity Falls.
Note that for half of these I couldn't even name the characters. Though honestly I couldn't care less about "canon" gayness. My preference for fanfics are always getting together fics so if the character is in a relationship already it spoils the fun for me.
No.5661
>>5660I like it when we didn't see how they got together. Two pairings I am into aren't directly canon but.. very pandered to say it that way. Thing is for one pairing you see almost nothing at all, you know they were very close, you know bits of the past like how they worked together and killed together but one of them dies at the beginning of the story, so everything was filled by fans. They had great fans though, so it was fantastic witnessing the gayverse unfold.
For the other pairing we see them discuss a thing for probably the first time since one of them calls the other one by his surname. But then, next time we see them, they already act super gay and he calls him by his forename.
I love that shit because it provides enough fuel to imagine them as gay without making shit up but leaves a lot of blanks at the same time that you can fill.
The step-by-step story of canon pairings is part of what makes me indifferent about them. Maybe one day I will encounter a canon gay story that is so well written that I will be obsessed regardless, but usually it isn't.
No.5663
>>5662This sounds 100% like the shit otaku men do with their waifu wars. It's never about chemistry or the characters it's just about betting on who will win and laughing about the losers and obsessing with canon and what ship is more canon than others
No.5664
>>5663another way of putting it is no genuine love for fandom, culture and the media they somehow obsess over
No.5665
>>5664Yeah it's the apolitical version of "own dem libs". Engaging with media out of a sense of adversity with another group or in order to join a group to shout at another like a sports fanatic.
I wonder if they even argued with fujos in that thread before she made that post or if it's the shizo mindset of a person that feels they have to take revenge on the voices in their head.
No.5666
>>5662I don't get why yuri fans are so obsessed with something being canon or unproblematic. Has that ever stopped fujoshis? So lazy
No.5667
>>5666They're like that because they positioned themselves as being "better" and "superior" to fujoshi and yaoi, so if they follow our lead it's an admission of defeat.
No.5668
>>5666I don't even know why yuri fans have this one-sided rivalry going with fujos. I never see het fags doing this and the fact that yuri is mainstream and yaoi not should be obvious to everybody so it's some "we or you" fight
No.5669
>>5662At the risk of sounding like an uncultured weeb, why is this show such a point of contention between fujos and himes? We get a ton of great visual novels and manga, and there's even some regular books that cater to us, and it's usually a lot more interesting than most of the yuri I've read from those mediums (especially VNs). Why is everyone losing their minds over a show about League of Legends? I can think of a lot of media that I wish were BL before that show. I legit know nothing about it outside of the posts I've seen; I didn't even know it was about League of Legends until this week, so this is a legit question.
No.5670
>>5669it's retarded twitter drama. some moid on twitter said he liked arcane and wished there was "an arcane but yaoi" and the yurifags decided to unleash all their seething hatred onto fujos over this tweet.
No.5671
>>5669Most canon yuri is really boring due to the lack of creativity and fear of touching any sort of imperfect / "unpure" character aspect for the female leads. Plus no problematic elements either. Just uwu boobie waifu blobs being wholesome. Even my favorite ultra-fluffy BL pairings have more complexity and depth than generic yuri. Except it's almost all like that and there's a lack of good fanworks.
No.5672
>>5669The difference between yuri and yaoi regarding representation is that we usually only get it and designated BL series, whereas yuri happens surprisingly and casually in mainstream shows centered on action, drama or sci-fi.
The gap even way more extreme if you only look at western things where yuri is everywhere but gayness usually shoved aside and reserved for randos like
>>5647 that aren't relevant.
But this is especially why I don't get why yuri fags act like it was an even race of which they have to celebrate the victory off.
Never watched Arcane either. Well I tried it. But it bored me and I consider the characters ugly tbh lol
No.5673
>>5671I would agree with this, and I think this is why the only yuri I've ever enjoyed was written by women. Even then, there's still an aversion to writing anything potentially upsetting or 'problematic' in the majority of those types of stories. I've seen this a lot in pairings considered 'toxic yuri,' where very little 'bad' actually happens (I've seen this discussed elsewhere in the thread). I guess it's just different expectations, but there's an excess of diabetes-inducing, wholesome yuri.
>>5672>The difference between yuri and yaoi regarding representation is that we usually only get it and designated BL series, whereas yuri happens surprisingly and casually in mainstream shows centered on action, drama or sci-fi. Yeah, I get this part, and I agree that it's frustrating we don't get canon BL pairings more frequently (and when we do get a canon MxM pairing in a non-BL series, men in the fanbase lose their minds and act like they've been personally attacked). I guess my confusion was more in regard to why this specific show is the battleground for this discourse lol. Like, most of the good BL I can think of is more interesting and visually appealing than Arcane. Like you alluded to, it just seems like a weird thing to gloat over?
>>5670Thanks!
No.5674
>>5673>I guess my confusion was more in regard to why this specific show is the battleground for this discourse lolThink it's just because it's hyped as fuck. It's the newest FOTM.
It's honestly crazy how there is either almost no discussion at all about media or a flood half of the world participates in. It always pissed me off even for series I ended up loving myself and it makes me feel like the majority (at least the majority of those that post opinions) doesn't even watch it because they're interested and instead just latch onto the next big thing or maybe they don't even watch it and just participate in fights to take the chance for calling out whomever they hate.
It sounds similar to the shit the Mouthwashing nonnas talked about where it got so bad that you couldn't enjoy the fandom and ship anymore because antis who didn't even play the game would flood into your replies.
WHAT A COINCIDENCE that the ones attacked are fujos in both cases. Though to be fair there are probably other battlegrounds, like shipping the wrong lesbians for Arcane or something, no sure.
No.5675
>>5662Yeah I want to see how they discuss Maddie and Caitlyn to be honest, but I'm gonna guess they haven't watched Arcane S2 to know Caitlyn is cheating on Vi with the first lil suck up tomboy who gets her clothes off. S3 is going to have to stop and address Vi being back involved with Jinx on top of the genocide Jayce and Ambessa have caused. If you see any of them calling these characters innocent and safe, remind them Caitlyn aimed a gun at a child's face and would have pulled the trigger if her girlfriend didn't tackle her. Said girlfriend also punched that kid later and made her bleed (but at least that was an accident while trying to beat her sister's face in).
>>5666I've had some other fujos get real mad calling me an elitist etc for saying I don't require canon. I think I live rent free in one's head cuz they brought it up when nobody'd even said it yet in a homothread.
>>5669Expensive high profile Netflix show. Western animation is starved for non-comedy adult content so it's a big deal, on top of having a decade old existing fanbase who will watch it regardless.
No.5676
>>5675Wait shit, not S3, I forgot there's another three episode batch that got leaked. Thanks, Netflix.
No.5677
>>5666>I don't get why yuri fans are so obsessed with something being canonMy uneducated guess is that the yurifags that gaf about whether their parings are canon are actual lesbians and thus are more invested in actual social acceptance of lesbians in media
No.5679
>>5678My conspiracy theory is this is a direct response to Fordcest and Billdip shippers.
No.5680
>>5672>>5678I also think a big difference is when f/f is canon it's stuff people were already shipping with main characters (PB/Marcy, Catadora) whereas canon m/m in mainstream media is *NEVER* the most popular m/m ship.
No.5681
>>5666Every loud and annoying yuri fan I've come into contact with outside of 4chan was also openly a 'uwu soft lesbian' troon so in my mind they use canonicity to validate themselves and shit on fujoshi cause troons hate real women.
No.5682
>>5675I don't require canon, but I appreciate it in different ways. having a pairing from a non-canon show can be really fun because you can build everything up yourself. It's fun to make up all of these different scenarios in your head with your friends and fellow shippers. However sometimes I just wanna be spoiled with canon love and sex on screen.
No.5683
>>5662This whole Arcane thing is so warped. Literally fujos minding their own business and then a series no fujo is even watching gets a canonized lesbian couple and yurifags start screaming and hollering about how "fujos lost" and "lesbians keep winning". I mean… we weren't playing this game to begin with? Why are you dragging us into the ring over nothing? I often think back to that one viral tweet from a himejoshi that said that "some of you bitches don't even like yuri, you just hate yaoi" and it stands true for so many times in these situations.
No.5684
>>5681Yeah it's always trannies from my experience. Either TIMs that want to win the gender war and prove how much of a woman they are (they're the same ones that obsessively hate every male character since men trigger their self-hatred) or it's TIFs that project onto fujos and believe that every woman with a male fav or a real life male friend or bf was their personal enemy (LC suffers from a similar issue, but without the tranny part).
No.5687
>>5683Ill play devils advocate and say fujos are certainly invested in arcane (jayce and viktor) but unless jayce/viktor fans are harassing riot HQ for not making it endgame, I dont understand the vitriol himes are hurling against fujos for a bait tweet that was made by a shounentard moid who doesnt even read yaoi.
In fact the sentiment fujos have with the tweet is not that we want arcane to turn into a yaoi, we just want an endgame canon BL relationship from actual main characters that dont die or get shafted in the end that get the same amount of love Arcane had in its production.
No.5688
>>5683Arcane fujos were just in their own corner shipping Jayce and Victor without caring if it was canon or not, and the yurifags chimped out at them for nothing.
No.5689
>>5670He didn't even say he wanted Caitvi to be replaced or specified wanting Jayvik to be canon, he clearly just meant he wanted a show with good animation and good writing to have a canon M/M couple but no one on that site can read. Most retarded discourse I've ever seen in my entire life. No idea why Arcaneshitters see LoL as lesbian central when there are canon/implied gay pairings in the game anyway.
No.5690
>>5683They're jumping on a bandwagon, the lesbian couple existed in S1, and they've only just decided to pay attention to it now they're fighting ghosts.
No.5691
>>5689>but no one on that site can readIt's literally the "So you hate waffles?" dilemma that became a meme on twitter. tbh it sounds petty but every call out tard I knew personally is a failed artist that seethes about others that draw pretty art, get retweets and join fan zines. It might even explain the seething about fujos, since they are the most common popular artists and the ones producing most of the shit out there.
IIRC the whole Arcane debate already involved anger about an overabundance of yaoi online. Not canon, but the content fans produce.
No.5709
>>5691Why don't these people make their own shit then? Who cares what fujos do on there free time, it's like they're secretly plotting to rid the world of yuri kek.
No.5747
>>5745It feels like all the anti-fujo misogynist cluster all gathered there. For those that complain so much about how "fujos hate women" they sure hate women that just happen to like gay cartoons kiss.
No.5751
>>5745That was made apparent by the number of inintegrated posters as of late. There has been an influx of people violating the rules, making pointless threads, and asking questions to which they'd know the answer if they'd spent even a day lurking. I don't know if your picrel is an example of that, as I've seen stupid takes of that nature on LC for a while. I think people who say this sort of thing don't actually believe it, though. It's just a way of using feminism to legitimize an argument they know is stupid.
>Also funny how these retards only complain about male centrism within the context of fanfare towards BL instead of how there's so much more media catering to males in real life without any consideration for female consumers.This argument is so bizarre to me because it's in direct conflict with a lot of anti-fujos' other favorite argument: the guys in BL are just women in terms of writing and behavior. So, which is it? Are we male-centered misogynists who refuse to read about women, or are we constantly reading about romance between two 'women?' I didn't participate in the hime cringe or the fujo vs anti-fujo threads because there's no point in arguing with people like this, and I legitimately believe that most of them are just looking for drama. Some probably aren't even himejoshi in the first place, while others probably just want something to fight about. The hand-wringing about men being featured in the hime thread as opposed to female yuri fans is the most obvious example of this. I mean, wouldn't female yuri fans be GLAD if the male creeps who invade their fandom spaces are getting called out and mocked, as opposed to the legitimate female yuri fans? After all, according to them, 99% of the posts in the hime thread had nothing to do with them (allegedly- I didn't read most of the thread, but I'm taking them at their word). Even if they thought the thread was stupid and pointless, is that really a reason to work so hard to get it shut down? If it has nothing to do with you, then why do you want it gone so badly? I don't care that the Fujo Cringe Thread exists. I choose not to read it because I don't want to read a bunch of randos online talking about a topic I do not find interesting. I do wish that they'd stay in containment, as opposed to shitting up unrelated threads, though. The only reason I see most of this stupid fighting is because people feel the urge to start posting outside of containment.
>Nobody would ever call a male yurifag or waifufag "female-centered".Don't you know, nona? The kind of men who would punch a hole in their drywall if one of the Love Live girls got a boyfriend are obviously women's greatest allies.
No.5780
>>5775Mental illness at display. I'm guessing this is yuripedo at it again and I'm still not quite convinced that she's not a tranny because the extreme male aggression, the terminal coomery with a rape fetish and the bony ass fingers check out.
No.5783
>>5745>For those that complain so much about how "fujos hate women" they sure hate women that just happen to like gay cartoons kissThese people don't like women, they like women which they can project in, like a never ending fuel of narcissism.
If I had a penny everytime I saw yumes complaining about evil female characters tropes in yaoi manga I would be stratospherically rich lmao
HOWEVER somehow the same logic doesn't apply to hetero romcoms?
It's almost like they hate anything that disrupts their delusional validation, their self-insert can't be overshadowed by a man,
no, she can't possibly feel threatened by other women, because other women are always evil, they are merely obstacles while the male lead, obviously worships her and only her.
It's also pathetic how at the end of the day they can't even have the same numbers as fujos in spite of them being so loud on socials.
No.5784
>>5783>These people don't like women, they like women which they can project in, like a never ending fuel of narcissism.Accurate. They whine and whine about how "fujos hate female characters" and what they mean by "hate" is simple indifference towards them, and by "female characters" they hate their self-insert trope waifu who's the designated prize for the male lead. It's the same song and dance every time. I've seen so many yumes complain about being "bullied" by misogynist fujos and digging deeper into the issue the "bullying" turns out to be them more interested in ship art of the two male leads and making one-off jokes about upsetero heteros or something.
No.5792
>>5788Male readers hated Sakura way, way more than female readers so what's that anon's idea about why men could possibly hate her? I'm almost curious.
No.5793
>>5788>>5792Exactly, this always cracks me up because Sakura was literally hated by everyone equally, both male and female fans, even in the Japanese fandom to the point Kishimoto had to reflect on why people couldn't stand her. Her writing did improve as the story went on but the damage was already done.
Besides, looking back on it I feel like most hardcore female Sakura haters were Sasuke yumes who either wanted to ship their OC/themselves to him or who only shipped NaruSasu to keep Sasuke away from other girls.
No.5794
>>5775Some other nonnas already said it, they cannot socialize with their hobby since everybody is technically shipping the husbando with someone else. And unlike canon characters self-insert OCs are very personal and only work for the person that makes them and at best others with a similar personality that are strong enough to ignore the discrepancies between OC and their own self.
I am in a discord with a lot of fake fujos who are actually yumes and their work is so pathetic. They draw a lot but nobody cares, not even the other yumes in the same discord. Because they all ship their very specific OCs that coincidentally look exactly like them just thinner.
Most of them eventually turn to aggressive call outers because nobody likes their stuff whereas others get hundreds or thousands of "likes" for their art, because it's showing actual existing characters. We have a few that stir up shit against every fucking fanzine our series gets because they always want in but nobody chooses them because zines are themed and unlike it's an explicit OC-zine nobody wants any OCs.
These people want the zines to be interesting and spread, so they want canon characters and ships. But because these people don't get in they try to cancel every fucking zine it's hilarious. Sadly sometimes it works, since they will dig through every tweet the mods have made the last 7 years in an attempt to stir up shit and revenge cancel them.
Sorry but this is pathetic. If you care about clout so much then learn to care about canon shit first.
No.5798
>>5751>I mean, wouldn't female yuri fans be GLAD if the male creeps who invade their fandom spaces are getting called out and mocked, as opposed to the legitimate female yuri fans?>If it has nothing to do with youLC has tranny jannies confirmed.
No.5808
>>5788>the main reason sakurapoor delulu yumes, Sakura is the most disliked female character in anime kek, a good portion of the people that dislike her are not even nerds just normies, but yeah no fujos are at fault, it can't be that the character is shitty or something
No.5810
>>5793>Her writing did improve as the story went on but the damage was already doneno, no it didn't, she married the guy that tried to kill her and was left for years raising a child alone and people still think the character is "feminist "?
>who only shipped NaruSasu to keep her away from other girlsNo she is hated because she is a bad fictional character, sometimes is that simple.
No.5813
>>5808>Sakura is the most disliked female character in anime kekIt's so bad that almost everyone sees her as the embodiment of "how to not write a female character" instead of just a character they dislike. You'll look up an unrelated anime or manga and see comments about whether the female characters are better written than Sakura or not without anyone asking. And the only people I know who like or liked her started Naruto so early that the timeskip wasn't a thing just yet in the manga, let alone in the anime, and they found her funny but expected her to get a lot more development and got their hopes up with the arc about Sakura vs Sasori, even they will tell you she's "wasted potential" and should have been written by someone else. Everyday I wish Kishimoto didn't get any success with Naruto partly for these reasons.
No.5817
>>5813Yeah the "at least she's not Sakura from Naruto" is a clause often heard when discussing female characters. The only people I've ever seen whiteknighting Sakura have been straight out contrarians who just like anything others hate or those who use her as a self-insert vessel and take all the hate personally.
No.5840
>>5818It's both impressive and scary how fast they doxxed her simply based on a few phrases she was known to use. I never want to piss off the farms for this reason alone, hell hath no fury like a nonnie scorned.
No.5847
>>5840This is the reason i go by a different name on every single site i use
No.5852
>>5840> I never want to piss off the farms for this reason alone, hell hath no fury like a nonnie scorned.If there's one thing I learned from lolcow culture it's that I need to make myself as boring and nonconfrontational as possible.
No.5854
>>5852As much as I can't stand yuripedo I have my moral qualms about this outcome because I generally don't agree with doxxing as a tactic. BUT she made it her life mission to relentlessly shit all over and troll a site dedicated to mentally ill anons going after lolcows just to get fujos banned for her autistic vendetta and pissed off even other lesbians and yuri fans with her deranged behavior. She's almost 30, she shouldn't be acting this way. If she was a teenager I would just shake it off as her being young and dumb, but she really has no excuse. She's been using imageboards for ten years according to her digital footprint, I guess she really underestimated the social engineering skills farmers have when they get mad because she's so used to limp wristed 4chan incels doing nothing about her. Farmers are capable of some scary shit when they put their minds to it.
No.5855
>>5854I don't feel bad. If you're going to watch child beheading videos the least you can do is have good opsec. She had it coming.
No.5864
I don't use LC shit so I have no idea who yuripedo is, did she also shit up gay /a/ threads?
No.5870
>>5864She was this mentally ill woman who obsessed over yuri and openly despised fujos and hetshippers. She derailed and posted her collection of oneeloli yuri crap in a fujo discourse thread iirc. Farmers called her a troon so she she posted her hand. It was very surreal to see in real time. She then continued to ban evade and shit up threads constantly. They found her on /r9k/ and /u/, idk about /a/ but it wouldn't surprise me
No.5872
>>5864A 26/27-year mentally ill old woman who was raised by 4chan's r9k board notorious for being a breeding ground for incels and identifies as a lesbian, causing her to pick up their signature behavior. Being completely consumed by her obsession for yuri and anime lesbians, she hates fujos and yumes because they're women not contributing to her hyperfixation and thus she feels wronged by their "male centrism". Kept aggressively baiting and infighting both fandom and lesbian threads (where she also accused everyone of being "bisluts" or "bishits", terms she uses to refer to bisexuals) on Lolcow spamming and ban evading and replying to herself. When people called her a troon she posted a vocaroo clip of her voice, later photos of her hands and body to prove that she's not fat. The nickname "Yuripedo" came from how she kept shilling yuri manga that had oneeloli (i.e. older woman and little girl) porn and when people were disgusted by this she started spamming oneeloli yuri out of spite.
No.5876
>>5875Some people crave attention even if the only attention their behavior will receive is toxic.
No.5879
>>5875Often wonder what motivates such people to go online act like huge fucking spergs.
No.5880
>>5872The yuripedo moniker was also meant to point out her hypocrisy since she insisted it was impossible for a lesbian to separate their irl attraction from fictional interests (she specifically sperged about lesbian fujos in the lesbian thread) despite posting oneeloli soon after. Anons pointed out that by her own logic, one could only assume she's a pedophile, but she just kept doubling down.
No.5889
>>5880Oh yes, it's indeed curious how her "your preferences in fiction are defined by your irl sexual attraction and that's it! Lesbian fujos don't exist!" opinion didn't extend to her attraction to anime lolis.
No.5903
I genuinely believe that the fear of pissing off some male fans by confirming gay or being gayer is generally way bigger than the actual number of male fans that would seethe about it.
I asked every man I know who has dropped Bucchigiri why they disliked and every single one of them said "the MC", who is, funny enough, super straight, unlike the rest of the cast. None mentioned the gay pandering, the side characters or anything else, most of them even said the series was otherwise well made and funny. Everybody, fujos and men alike, hate the damn MC and yet, he's that shit to begin with because the insecure creators thought he must be straight and hunt after a girl that despises him.
It's so stupid and it always backfires. See Buddy Daddies too. A show made for nobody, not even men that enjoy some action shlog with little girl. All because the series doesn't know what it wants to be and meanders between half-assed attempts of a gay family comedy, cartoony action and straight romance drama and serious themes.
As a rule of the thumb: the men that hate gayness so much that it triggers them rarely even watch anything with multiple prominent male characters to begin with. They stick to MC/harem content or girl only series. I want producers to finally understand this. Fujos are very loyal, they stick to the pairings they already have. If you want to win them over you have to be a bit more daring and radical.
No.5904
>>5903For most main stream anime I agree that most male fans probably don't care and the showrunners areafraid of an invisible bogeyman. However I think for video games and movies there is a worry of being available in countries like China or Russia those properties are aimed at s much wider audiences than animanga and are holding back for widespread availability
No.5905
>>5904Pooh and Pootin manage to ruin everything yet again. I wish we could rescue our Chinese and Russian fujosisters.
No.5908
>>5875LC is unironically even more misogynist than /a/ IMO. Can't even breathe there without getting attacked or being called a pickme slut. They have an extremely narrow definition of what a woman is and they hate everybody who isn't fat or friendless.
No.5910
>>5908Lc users believing they are le based feminists are such a joke. The site is a joke. They don't even have interesting discussions on cows anymore and every other thread in /ot/ or /media/ devolves into the evil fujos, moids moids moids or how being a doormat tradthot is actually based. I know it was a joke but the admin might actually be a man or a troon because I can't imagine a woman being so bad, catty and hostile to any woman that doesn't cum to the thought of anime pussy and lolis.
No.5911
>>5903Piggybacking your post to bitch that they fumbled Bucchigiri so hard, literally everyone I know (both the fujos and the men who watched it for the yanki stuff) dropped that series simply because of the MC and how goddamn unlikable and irredeemable he was. I would die to hear what was going on in the writing room, did they purposefully aim to make the most insufferable anime protagonist in history?
But back to topic, I fully agree. NGE has a ginormous male audience despite Kaworu very, very obviously being gay for Shinji. They might scoff it off as a crush, but clearly they're not bothered enough to drop the series entirely. Tiger and Bunny is another example, men loved that series despite all the gayness included. Jojo is gleefully flamboyant and it's extremely popular with men. Blue Lock is undeniably gay pandering, has no female characters at all and it outsold One Piece. The creators who piss their pants in fear of incels throwing a fit over evil gay propaganda in their series are weak as hell and despicable for begging for their money anyway, I'm still seething over how Atlus tried to eat their cake and have it too with how they handled Joker and Akechi.
No.5912
>>5911>The creators who piss their pants in fear of incels throwing a fit over evil gay propaganda in their seriesWhen it comes to manga and anime the ones who are pissing their pants aren't the artists or writers, but the editors or shareholders. Many of them are out of touch with the general public and with their target audiences. You'll have an artist trying to include a lot of different, original ideas in their stories, and the editors will try to force them to make their stories as generic as possible. It applies to many things, not just fujobait or canon gay pairings, like when Araki said he had to insist to inclue Lisa Lisa in JJBA back in the days but I have never seen anyone complaining that there are too many women in the series.
>I'm still seething over how Atlus tried to eat their cake and have it too with how they handled Joker and Akechi.I don't know what they want, they keep acting like they really want to include gay pairings and their fanbase would be fine with it but they always hold back. They did this with Yosuke in P4, and Hashino said he always wanted to include gay stuff in Catherine but only felt like the audience would be ready for it with Catherine Fullbody.
No.5916
>>5910Yeah this. I feel like 90% of that board is just seething for personal reasons and most there don't like media, especially not anime and comics and especially especially not if they're fujo so I left it behind. Everything you enjoy that has men is problematic anyway and hinting that you're a fan of men and therefore an enemy.
I don't even believe that their so-called feminism is genuine, everything seems to be the result of a personal vendetta against their exes. The last post I have read on there was saying they should delete /m/ because media attracts idiots and that post had like 7 other users agree. They don't have fun with anything, it's a pure seething board and the only discussion they seem to give a shit about that ISN'T about hatred against other people (women and men) or pink frills and other "female-approved" hobbies was a thread where they coomed to some actor dude I didn't know. So I guess men ARE cool if they look fuckable to them lel
I don't get it and stopped bothering. I only post on FC these days and sometimes /a/ whenever they have a decent thread up or discuss a sausage fest series I am into.
Sorry for the delete and newpost, but I made a confusing typo at the end lol
No.5918
>>5911I believe they tried to make an "oldschool" MC that has funny hijinks with a girl he's horny for that doesn't want him or acts tsun about it. The thing is just that this shit was annoying from the start but even when a series was doing it like in Bastard or even Ranma to some degree it amounted to something and the girl actually liked him back.
But the worst of all was how Arajin didn't want to participate in his own show. Like what the fuck- how can experienced writers even come up with this? If the MC doesn't care about his own show why should I? It's such a wasted potential. You always had cool things happening and side characters being super funny or interesting, only for MC to run away or ignore his friend like a piece of shit because he hates the gang war and apparently doesn't care about anything but the girl that hates him. I want to know what they were thinking too.
Also, this
>>5912. Series are always influenced by the people in power who newer watch anything and have no idea what a real audience even is and how they feel.
>I'm still seething over how AtlusAtlus is the worst. I thought it couldn't get worse after P4 and the shafting of Yosuke and retarded gaybait with Kanji but somehow they refuse to improve. It's weird because their shit made for gay, but they're genuinely afraid of doing it. I'll be mindblown if P6 or anything else that's new contains anything gay, even if it's one-sided.
No.5919
>>5916It's pretty lame, I'd like for there to be something like actual general anime/manga discussion or even a story time because honestly 4chan is 90% just coomer replies and sometimes it'd be nice to get another perspective on a story, even bad ones, but most conversation can be boiled down to just modern "anime bad. Men uggo." With one or two posts mentioning that a show is interesting but with no replies.
No.5920
>>5916>I only post on FC these days and sometimes /a/ whenever they have a decent thread up or discuss a sausage fest series I am into.I wish I could be like you and quit lolcow entirely. I don't use social media outside of imageboards, and I find it so hard to quit LC because they have discussions on niche fandom stuff I wouldn't get to talk to people about otherwise. At the same time, it's pretty rare for any topics I find interesting to get traction. It also feels like the site as a whole has gotten a lot more hostile. I don't post about fujo stuff on there anymore, so this isn't about hostility towards fujos. I mean, you'll post something to the effect of, "hey, I really like this obscure game," and you'll either get one reply like, "No one cares," or your post will get drowned out by people infighting about stupid shit from the post above you.
>>5919This is the problem I have with 4chan. I like seeing people have negative opinions on stuff I like, or positive opinions about things I hate. You would think the anonymity would make people feel more free to express their opinions, but instead, it either leads to people fighting about stupid shit or people just being unapologetic coomers, which they already do without the guise of anonymity on Twitter.
No.5922
>>5916NTA and I agree, none of the anons on that site really like or enjoy anything. They seem to be absolutely miserable and despise everything and everyone, their only form of entertainment being constant hatescrolling, reading up on internet drama and politisperging. I wonder if any of them really have any actual friends.
>So I guess men ARE cool if they look fuckable to them lelOh god, this too. People over there hate men until they don't, and even the manhate seems to be a thinly veiled excuse to judge other women. The peabrained double standards and insincerity really gets to me on that site, everything has to be about either catty tiktok drama or cooming to hot men or it's not worth investing any time into.
>>5920I visit only a few threads on that site these days for the same reason as you, I have some fandoms that I don't get to talk to my friends about a whole lot so I usually do my sperging there. I'm avoiding /ot/ like the plague though.
>I mean, you'll post something to the effect of, "hey, I really like this obscure game," and you'll either get one reply like, "No one cares," or your post will get drowned out by people infighting about stupid shit from the post above you.It's so stupid, when I came to Fujochan I was amazed at how people could hold a conversation here without it turning into a schizo shitflinging battle over nothing like they have done so on Lolcow for the past years. I don't understand why the current userbase on that site is so bent on being overly hostile but even reporting doesn't seem to do shit anymore since they're either severely understaffed or the mods themselves are encouraging the infighting.
No.5923
>>5918>But the worst of all was how Arajin didn't want to participate in his own show. Like what the fuck- how can experienced writers even come up with this? If the MC doesn't care about his own show why should I? It's such a wasted potential. You always had cool things happening and side characters being super funny or interesting, only for MC to run away or ignore his friend like a piece of shit because he hates the gang war and apparently doesn't care about anything but the girl that hates him. The entirety of Bucchigiri's problems summed up in a neat package. I can't believe they put in the archetypal Hiroko Utsumi's horny gay antagonist and the wholesome childhood gay best friend in the series and the MC had nothing to do with them, his only purpose being to be horny for the girl who, very rightfully I might add, hates him. That 6,5/10 on MAL isn't an exaggeration.
>I'll be mindblown if P6 or anything else that's new contains anything gay, even if it's one-sided.I'm kind of 50/50 on this. On the other hand Joker and Akechi and Rin in Catherine might have been testing the waters for the reaction from their audience, but on the other hand incels getting so enraged over implied gayness with Akechi might've scared them into scrapping any possibilities of a male love interest in Persona. But the more I think about it, I realize that they've barely utilized Akechi for any collabs and promotions so I might be doing myself a disservice getting my hopes even remotely up.
No.5925
>>5920>or your post will get drowned out by people infighting about stupid shit from the post above you.This always happened to me so I gave up too. Same even happened in the off-topic threads like I was talking about a problem I have and asking for experience or advice. But the only shit they care about is relationship drama so if someone made a post about her ex one day before or a second after your post it will get 34 replies with everybody saying the exact same thing and nobody gives a shit about the rest.
And yeah the anime thread was dead too so I moved on. Nothing I like gets any discussion besides Golden Kamuy and even that thread slowed down and wasn't worth staying anyway, I rather hope we'll get more GK fujos here to make our thread more active.
No.5926
>>5920>or people just being unapologetic coomersPantyshizo and a certain guy whom I don't even dare to mention since he googles himself (three letters) have me convinced that the shittyness of nu/a/ is largely the fault of only a handful fanatic, legit mentally ill shitposters who are online 20h a day. I recognize them due to writing style and topic and holy shit some of them are everywhere and I swear they manage to derail every thread they're in, especially nowadays that /a/ is so slow. The issue: they can't be fucking banned since they'll just log-in with new IP a minute later. It's horror.
Now add to them the cringe try-hards that brag with being pedo because they believe it would make them fit in (it doesn't and you recognize them from a mile away and they always LARP being oldfags but use "normie") and template thread posters and you're looking at a trash heap that was once a board.
I admit there still good threads but 100% of them are EITHER general manga-only threads with topics like "historical manga" or "old manga" or it's about older anime (Outlaw Star had some great random threads, among others) or a weekly thread about a man-only anime.
That's it. Everything else attracts the coomers and shitposters because of the girls, which further convinces me that 90% of all low quality posts come from the same people. Even the men I know that used 4chan regularly left it around 2018 since it got shittier and shittier because of the reasons above. Some of them and some female friends that used 4chan before returned for Odd Taxi discussion and left again when it ended (bless Odd Taxi).
No.5927
>>5926>Everything else attracts the coomers and shitposters because of the girlsThe most annoying thing is when the girls are barely in the thing they're talking about, there can be a genuinely interesting manga with great monster designs and the thread op will be of the one panel that had a naked girl in it.
There can be a show where the female character is in it for a 30 second scene and someone will post every single frame of that 30 seconds in the thread and ignore everything else.
The series ends up as just being known for sex and fanservice while everything else gets ignored.
No.5928
>>5922>I don't understand why the current userbase on that site is so bent on being overly hostileI think it must be the result of people coming to LC from social media. I remember people I know in real life (people who don't know that I use LC or even what LC is) sending me that "funny screenshot" from TikTok of the kid who supposedly made ten threads on LC about his ex. I think there must've been a lot of people who were exposed to the site through TikTok, and they're coming into it with the notion that it's some sort of mean girl femcel site where they get to pretend to be the popular girl from high school. On some level, these people can't appreciate anonymity for what it is, and feel like they have to be a "character" on the site and have a "clique." Even the cow threads feel weaker now because of this. I don't really know how to say it better than that, but hopefully someone understands what I mean.
>>5925>I rather hope we'll get more GK fujos here to make our thread more active.You could try making a post about it in the recommendation thread, and see if any of the current users give it a shot? I hope you're able to find people on here willing to talk about it! I, for one, am very susceptible to the propaganda nonas put out about their favorite series, and I bet a lot of people on here are similar.
>>5926>I admit there still good threads but 100% of them are EITHER general manga-only threads with topics like "historical manga" or "old manga" or it's about older anime (Outlaw Star had some great random threads, among others) or a weekly thread about a man-only anime. The anime/manga discussion on there is pathetic, and I think most of them don't even watch or read the thing they're posting about. /lit/ is similarly filled with people who did not read the book and make stupid one-liners to the point where it starts to feel like Reddit. There's an occasional good thread, but like with the anime/manga threads you mentioned, it's usually a niche topic or it's the same 3 books over and over again. I'm hopeful FC might eventually get some more nonas who are interested in literature. Even if the conversation remains fujo-relevant, I have plenty of homoerotic classic lit to discuss if it ever happens lol.
>>5927This is also true. Similarly, the VN generals are nigh-unusable because it's just people posting pictures of their waifus with some generic coomer comment. And, like, I get the majority of VNs are waifu games, but good god, did you really read a 60 hour VN, and the only thing you want to discuss is that one of the girls was hot? You can literally just read a doujin or look at art, so why are you torturing yourself with these long stories when you clearly get nothing out of the plot?
No.5930
>>5662If you've ever gone on /u/, they even eat each other about shipping anything that isn't canon. Only the purest canon yuri is allowed. They will never allow themselves to have a yuri version of Narusasu because they're so obsessed with being canon, and then they blame fujos who feed themselves for their lack of fics. When they're the ones hindering themselves by yelling at other yuri fans if they ship anything "crack".
No.5932
>>5904That's not why, they're more afraid of pissing off the homophobes at home, or the story is written by insecure straight men. Don't forget even the self proclaimed woke men who work on all those cartoons are still straight men, they don't like to see two men together because it makes them feel insecure and doubt their manhood.
No.5940
>>5927> there can be a genuinely interesting manga with great monster designs and the thread op will be of the one panel that had a naked girl in itGod this. I noticed it more often in recent times so I wonder again if I am shizo or if it's this new wave of users.
Bravern is a good example. It's THE homo show of the year and canonically gay and very openly so and yet every fucking opening post was about Lulu because they were made by the same retard that made them extra early to prevent anybody from possibly opening one that doesn't show the girl. I don't get it.
It's so contra-productive too. I cannot count HOW MANY great manga I overlooked for the longest time because the OPs chose to post that one image with the generic waifu fanservice when the rest of the series is some gay war drama or something. 4chan was always largely into girls and fanservice but I feel like something has changed and now the new users are literally only watching anime for this and nothing else and don't even want a story.
It makes me assume that they are either 1. children because adults would just read outright hentai in that case or 2. shitty LARPers that only use 4chan to fit in because it's that cool and allegedly edgy place tiktok has told them about
No.5944
>>5927>>5928I feel this so much and it kills any sort of motivation to talk on there. I am currently in a fandom where almost every character is male and multiple of them are pandered hard to fujos, some of them might even be legit gay or bisexual and in love with other guys but all you can talk about on /a/ are two underaged girls that barely have any screentime.
There was ONE single slightly sexy scene with one of the lolis in the anime and dear god, that image gets reposted in eeeevery fucking thread and it always gets like 7 or more replies and it's always the same fucking text and the same fucking answers.
For the sake of my sanity I pretend that's just the same two assburgers faking hype over and over again to brainwash themselves into thinking it was a series for otaku only and not majority fujos because they cannot cope with that.
No.5951
>>5944I use to be a /co/ lurker. That board has devolved into a sink fest of literal unadulterated autism with spergs whining about ugly women and lesbians while hyerfocusing on literal background characters. None of them want to make things yet expect the comic and cartoon industry to bend over backwards and make their idea of a Cute girls doing jack shit show. Knowing better would've save lost time but I was young, and with youth came being stupid.
No.5964
>>5911>>5918I still rage when I think of what a copout P5 was with Akechi. They're so afraid to ever bring him back and confirm him as completely alive because the straight males hate him. All because he killed the waifus parents. I know if it wasn't for that they wouldn't have cared and if Akechi was a girl that ship would have been canon. Times like this I wish fujos were as insane as the otakus threatening the studios. Fujos just accept subpar treatment and Akechi being relegated to the DLC bin, something that would never be done if a female character was the breakout waifu. I don't think anything in P6 could interest me as much as Joker/Akechi, so I'm even angrier knowing this was the last chance for a homo ship like that and Atlus pussied out. Even yuri ships get to go canon with antagonist, and they brought Adachi back even, but no, Akechi is much too controversial to bring back in a new game or even a spinoff manga. I don't understand how his fans are angrier about this. It just tells these companies that this treatment is okay, but fujos are very self hating.
No.5966
>>5964Haru is a shitty waifu anyway and her father was a miserable cunt. No need to pretend to hate him because a billionaire heiress is crying over her abusive father. Futaba though, her mom likely did some shady shit, and all Futabafags are losers anyway.
I'll never forgive Atlus for putting Goro in a corner. He's better than all the P5 waifus, especially Shitkoto. Easily, if he was a girl, everyone would call her the canon choice. Everyone. But no, Atlus are cowards and bows down to the male fans and shits on the Goro fans, yume and/or fujo
No.5967
>>5966How I wish female fans would stop giving fatlus their money, but I know they'll keep buying.
No.5968
>>5940There was a "top ten comfiest isekai" thread yesterday, and people posted The Weakest Tamer.
Some anon replied to ask them if the seven-year-old girl "fucks or gets fucked". Isekai Shikkaku threads when it was airing were also plagued by anons who'd turn up to ask when the secondary male lead would be fucking one of the girls, then complaining his existence was pointless and added nothing to the story if he wasn't having sex with girls. Those who were satisfied by his existence kept posting that he was cucking or NTRing the main male lead by "fucking the catgirl", because she hugged him and pat his head after a crisis.
It's a shock to me, because most series threads I browse don't have these drooling apes, but they sure exist all over when certain keywords are used.
No.5969
>>5940At least lulu is a character in the show. Lately I've seen Natsume fans INSISTING he has to get with Taki. And don't get me started on Nobara fans
No.5970
>>5968>but they sure exist all over when certain keywords are used.I watch female-aimed hetero romance anime sometimes but the /a/ threads are absolutely insufferable. Aside from the 'woman moment' comments whenever an MC isn't a perfect angel I swear there is some sort of schizo who goes into every otome/shoujo anime thread to talk about how much he loves shoujo rapist love interests even if there's no guy even remotely like that in the source material.
No.5973
>>5944I like to cope by thinking those sorts of posters are bots
>>5951as a /co/mrade actual on-topic discussion threads get deleted quite often due to being "generals", derailed by shizos (see the dreamworks guy) or just don't get any replies for not being coomer shit. /a/ is also a shithole with every female-aimed shoujo getting called fujoshit and some shizo complaining multiple times every thread about fujos.
I thought the post 2016 trumpers were the worst of what 4chan would ever experience since they were derailing every thread in unrelated boards with /pol/fag shit, but now it's either that, trannies or coomer pedo shit, it feels like nothing gets discussed if it isn't ragebait or waifus.
The shitty discord mods in all the boards are the reasons for the boards decline as well. I wish that someone that actually cared about the site bought it.
No.5975
>>5970Yeah there's a schizo who ruined all discussion of shojosei, he used to post in the homo threads occasionally but I guess he got bored.
>>5969They started doing this in the Orb threads too. The moment a female character showed up it's like their brain melted and now they *have* to post about their fantasy of a 14 year old girl getting fucked by grown men every time.
No.5976
>>5968>The Weakest Tamer.Man, I remember when it was airing some anon would spam any frame that showed her feet, armpits, or butt and would say it was all on purpose by the director when there was absolutely nothing egregious about it. She'd be falling down a hill and he'd post a frame that just happened to have her butt in shot, not even detailed.
No.5980
>>5951/co/ used to be my favorite media board. I take a peek around certain holidays for beloved storytimes, but I either miss them or they don't happen anymore.
>>5964>Times like this I wish fujos were as insane as the otakus threatening the studiosI wish fujos could unionize. Or they could start splitting up game releases like Pokemon–Otaku or Fujo edition.
No.5983
>>5980We already have insane fujos, it's called the Kpop and One Direction fandom. And the ones who aren't RPF tinhats are just as bad, screeching directly at creators on twitter to canonize their ship or sending them their porn art. It's better for fujos to stay silent and just not give money or engagement to shit that baits and then abandons them.
No.5984
>>5964>>5980The last time insane fujos had a movement it was Klance.
No.5985
>>5984Has there been anything as toxic as that whole fandom shit show since? Do you think we'll see a resurgence one day?
No.5986
>>5985Mouthwashing is pretty bad but in terms of being absolute shitheads to not only other fans but also the showrunners/VAs, Voltron is gonna take the cake for years to come. I think that level of toxicity was only possible because 1) it was "woke" Western show so people had reason to believe there'd be gay representation (which made Klance shippers delusional about their ship being canon), 2) the other biggest ship could be reasoned as problematic (age gap and brother line), 3) the writers/VAs were pretty interactive with the fandom and even VAs involved themselves in fandom discourse, and 4) it came out at the height of SJW politics in 2016/2017 so moralfagging about anything was normal.
No.5987
>>5986Yeah the fujos that go crazy are always the ones that like the middest ships on earth, it's not worth it.
No.5989
>>5986IMO The Voltron creators getting involved in fandom drama was the deciding factor in how toxic it got in the end. Fans got used to getting their way because some of the showrunners started to agree with their headcanons so they thought they could just come up with any sort of ides and get them a pass. It will forever stand as a warning to never get involved with your fandom and enable their delusions or you'll eventually lose the reins you have on the crowd and they'll devour you and your work. It might be fun to say "Sure! X could be Y background/identity, why not!" because it seems like a menial thing that's just doing a little favor for someone who simply wants to be seen but you give them an inch and they'll soon take a mile.
No.5990
>>5989I noticed sometime after 2016 people became more fixated on creators validating their headcanons and "queer-coding". Before, people would recognize their ship would never be canon and it was just for fun but now everyone's convinced they're being queerbaited if their OTP isn't canon. It goes beyond creators giving fans a little treat now though, just look at Bakudekufags reactions to the latest chapter. Hori is a Japanese shounen mangaka so he's the last person to ever do headcanon pandering shit and yet people are still coping about it like they did with "gay coded Kirishima".
No.5992
>>5951/co/ is truly awful. It's an unholy mix of /pol/ the cringest parts of tumblr and the waifu fags cum to absolutely everything to the point at which I wonder if it's just memeing or if they actually masturbate to geometric female randos or literally cartoon toddlers.
>>5964Yeah this what pains me so much. I cannot think of any fujo experience that isn't painful. AT BEST you might get some semi-confirmation after an ocean of suffering and roller coasters and a bittersweet ending.
Yes this CAN be great. People love drama, so sometimes I want gay drama and suffering but first I then want a happy end to even it out again and secondly I hate that it always happens. You just barely ever get anything gay that isn't tragic, ends in switch after the baiting, pulls the rug or some other shit while every fucking het romance in the same fucking manga/game thrives and has both characters be super happy and fluff.
The biggest issue is that you cannot tell fujos to stop caring or buying merch like some people claim. We do it because we are starved not because we are dumb.
It's like how a starving person would eat garbage because they need to fill the hole in his stomach. So let the fujos have the same fun hets have please.
No.5993
>>5992I feel like Koujaku and Aoba had a pretty happy time for the most part.
I luckily like dramatic stuff so I don’t really have an issue with the sad stuff in BL but I can understand it being annoying for someone who isn’t always into that.
No.5994
>>5990>>5991I don't think it's inappropriate to explore the possibility of the character being "gay coded", I think it's interesting to hear peoples' interpretations of the author's intentions. What I was referring to was people demanding the creator to make a show for them personally. Klancefags for example weren't yelling at Voltron showrunners to make Keith gay for muh kweer representation per se (not in good faith at least), they were demanding him to be gay with Lance specifically. And to be fair, in Voltron's context I actually do think the fans got queerbaited hard. It was shitty for them to actually make Shiro canonically gay but then only give him a flashback boyfriend that died. They were held back by the show aiming for countries where showing gay people is banned by censorship laws so they had to make everything easy to erase. As they tried threading that line they fumbled and everyone ended up leaving with a taste of shit in their mouths. They should've just left everything vague but they got too deep into the fandom discourse to not let it affect their creation.
No.5995
>>5992>I cannot think of any fujo experience that isn't painful.>You just barely ever get anything gay that isn't tragic, ends in switch after the baiting, pulls the rug or some other shit Tbf there's plenty of official bl manga, webtoons, and novels that have happy endings.
No.5997
>>5994I don’t think it’s inappropriate either and I think it’s fair to have that discussion (especially when people deny everything that’s even openly gay)
I just tend to roll my eyes whenever someone brings up queerbaiting nowadays since half the time it’s just ‘ship I like isn’t canon’ or ‘they didn’t write a gay character how I wanted them to’.
Shiro should have gotten with Keith instead of Macross man anyway
No.5998
>>5996To be fair in that case everyone should have been gay, fuck the female robots, fuck the tranny robots, only gay robots allowed.
No.5999
>>5994Yeah, I agree the Shiro/Adam thing was queerbaiting since they hyped up their scene at conventions only for Adam to die 5 minutes later. I don't mind queer-coding discussions but most of the time they come off as heavily delusional to me. As homoerotic as shounen manga can be, a 55 year old male mangaka isn't subtly trying to hint to their readers that the MC is gay 99.9% of the time. I see this in the Hoyoverse fandom too where people think characters are gay coded because their color palette matches with a fringe Tumblr LGBT flag nobody except terminally online people are even aware of.
No.6000
>>5999Dude it’s so weird with Genshin fans, I genuinely don’t get how you can convince yourself that the China shilling gachashit is going to have gay characters in it.
No.6001
>>5994> They were held back by the show aiming for countries where showing gay people is banned by censorship lawsSeriously, will we ever even have a chance for a shounen or seinen with surprise gay because of this shit? I hate that even if popular mangaka and the publisher would be fine with it we might not get it anymore because the global market matters so much now and half of the world is regressing back to the middle ages and China of all things being the most profitable market of them.
No.6002
>>5990In their defense jp game/manga writers are really good at writing significantly more compelling scenarios between characters that do not get together. Maybe one day one of them can the crack code and get the compelling bits in their endgame relationships. For a lot of them it really would be as easy as "Write your story. Okay now flip the gender of the MC or the rival/antagonist." I don't get burned nearly as often in western fandoms, where my reaction to canon het is usually "sure whatever" instead of "dude what".
>>5997>Macross manThe Roy leaks were so fucking funny, god I wish that was canon.
No.6003
>>5998Well to be fair there barely were any female bots and only one of them had a relationship with a guy and that guy was killed which made the hetero seething worse. The other few fembots from the other series were lesbians. But the open gayness and gay marriages made the dudebros's brain melt and it showed.
It also made me realises that these people are mentally, genuinely incapable of understanding stories. They lost their shit because of the gayness alone but because the characters from the series they read happened to have emotions. It wasn't even shoujolike or anything, they legit wanted the whole cast of characters to do nothing but Pew Pew for 100 issues straight and anything involving ANY sort of emotion that isn't anger is "woke shit". It's a legit brain damage.
No.6004
>>6002This is the problem, yeah. The non-intended romance that usually happens between two guys is often genuinely well written and super compelling to the point at which I would even like it if it was het. Not nearly as much, no, but still like which is a lot because I usually hate het and are otherwise indifferent about it at best (save for a handful of exceptions).
I swear Japanese creators are very good at writing unintentional romance and suck fucking ass at writing canon one, this even includes most canon gay stuff.
I think the central problem is that they distinguish friendships from romances to a point at which romances barely keep any friendly elements like well-balanced power dynamics, characters resonating, sharing of interests etc. What's left is often nothing but pure sexual attraction and blushing and this is just not appealing.
No.6005
>>6003I just don’t like there being female bots particularly since unless they’re there from the start it always causes retarded sexism that doesn’t need to be there
>All the girls are left at home because it’s too dangerous or something! >Arcee is made because feminists are complaining but then they’re mad because she’s sexy and pink!>Arcee is an insane tranny robot!>No actually she just didn’t take her meds and she likes being a tranny! >All the other girl robots went to a different planet actually!Just have there be no girl robots, the only people who give a shit about robot tits are coomer moids anyway.
No.6006
>>6001>will we ever even have a chance for a shounen or seinen with surprise gay because of this shit? Evangelion and Mirai Nikki were pretty surprise gay
No.6008
>>6006Evageeks trying to no-homo them for years was hilarious lmao.
No.6009
>>6008Tbf, with that ending
No.6010
>>6006They also have gay dead gays that go nowhere
No.6011
>>5970>>5975>I watch female-aimed hetero romance anime sometimes but the /a/ threads are absolutely insufferable. Aside from the 'woman moment' comments whenever an MC isn't a perfect angel I swear there is some sort of schizo who goes into every otome/shoujo anime thread to talk about how much he loves shoujo rapist love interests even if there's no guy even remotely like that in the source material.That's innit. Shes' a woman and a famous scanlator.
>>5999Hoyo only "gay codes" the lesbians.
No.6012
>>5966I began to dislike Haru because of the way fans would shit on Akechi only because of her father. Her forgiving him for being willing to sell her to an abusive creep has the entire fandom acting like her father is innocent just because he's her father. They act like Akechi personally is out to get her more than the actual men in her life who hurt her. But we're supposed to cry about the corrupt rich man dying because he's waifu's father. Akechi can't come back and is stuck in limbo forever, but they had no problem letting the other corrupt adults live. This is why the fandom treats him as more evil than them. Fuck Persona 5, I wish I never let the fujos talk me into the Royal hype in 2019. It's a bitter pill now knowing they did nothing with it.
No.6013
>>5997>Shiro should have gotten with Keith instead of Macross man anywaySheith was a shit pairing too. No one should've won
No.6014
the mention of Hoyo reminds me of when fans of that pink fox lady (iae miko?) went on a tirade against anyone who shipped her with a man because they headcanoned her as a lesbian. crazy stuff
No.6015
>>5985I think every fandom is bad now and Voltron level toxicity became the norm. Mouthwashing was mentioned, but Arcane is a mess too, and not helped because the writers are on twitter interacting with people.
No.6016
>>6001The reason you don't get surprise gay isn't because of other countries. That's just an excuse to ignore the homophobes at home. They can push for canon lesbians more and give them more scenes. The real reason is that most of these major properties that are popular are made by straight males for an audience of other straight males. Even your average straight dude who wants to be "woke" doesn't want to see gay men. She-ra was made under the same studio as Voltron and had lesbian kiss. The reason Shiro's writing was so ass is because none of the writers even gave a shit about him. People forget how much they talked about wanting to kill him off. They lost interest in him so why would they even care about giving him a romance with anyone when they see their main leads as straight? Take a look at the Arcane fandom where they will no homo Jayve and Viktor and talk about male friendship. It's not other countries that are the reason you're not seeing two men in romantic relationships in Western animation. It's because the people making them don't want to see it. There's enough people on the Western side who also hate fujoshi and who don't want to see any gay ship go canon between lead characters because it makes them uncomfortable. The straight male writers are uncomfortable with male homosexuality and the fandoms won't push them for it because fujoshi are considered cringe misogynists, and these writers get away with it because of that.
No.6018
>>5970There was one the other season where the MC hugs a baby deer in the intro or something and if I see one more anon claim it was sex, I swear. But yeah Innit is awful, the worst part is she deliberately crops and renames her images so you can't filter them, and once you catch a portion of her copypastas to search archive you can see that she also changes words like swapping BL for yaoi here and there so she can spam the same text about rape over and over and over.
>>5973I opened /co/ recently to look at Arcane memes (more gay stuff than /tv/ allows funnily enough), and I was really confused to see that mods delete sfw pinup art of bipedal animal cartoon characters, but leave up random T&A art of people's furry OCs where the only comments are about fucking them. I expected /co/ to have furries, but I kind of thought mods would give priority to actual cartoon characters from, you know, cartoons.
>>5975I can't remember but wasn't she also the one who kept calling people "steroid slurping homos" every time you disagreed with her tastes in kinks? Like "stop posting in the homothread, you homo".
>>5990And then they come attacking other fujos for "demanding less" and not participating in some kind of internet activism for more homo media in Japan.
No.6020
>>6016You are not wrong, but at the same time it's hard to believe there are so many fujos and yet none of them is a writer/allowed to push the envelope (and of course gay men themselves in the art field). The truth is that exec will always push lesbian and yuri pairing first. Any gay male protagonist will get shut down at the source.
>>6018>I can't remember but wasn't she also the one who kept calling people "steroid slurping homos" every time you disagreed with her tastes in kinks? Like "stop posting in the homothread, you homo".Yep, that's her. Innit. She mostly hangs around the scan thread. She typically TL badly shoujo manga with rape.
No.6021
Has anyone notice the amount of samey npc takes anti-fujos spew about yaoi?
>bl is filled with abuse and rape
>bl fetishizes gay men
>bl problematic
same ass crap repackaged different ways.
No.6022
>>6021I don't engage with it, the only time I see it is screenshots on here. I seen particular ships labled as glamorizing absue, but not anti-BL sentiment as a whole.
No.6023
>>6021Not this luckily, probably because I don't use any of the places that post that type of shit aka over-woke hellholes. I use twitter but I never encountered these types of posters there despite following 1200+.
The anti-fujo stuff I see the most often actually comes from insecure doomer fujos themselves that are too pessimistic for my taste and try to tell everybody who has fun to stop acting like their ships where canon because gay doesn't really exists and was just our delusional fantasy and if they don't fuck on screen it's not real anyway blahblah fuck off.
I am tired of this shit. I get that it's coming from frustrated bipolar fujos that are used to disappointment but I already hate reality, so at least let me forget all that shit and just let me have fun with my fictional shit without telling me I should call it a fujo delusion just because it's not published in some BL magazine.
No.6024
>>6020The fujos are writing published books but they're not the higher ups in game companies or anime production. The ones making cartoons do push for f/f but you never hear them wanting m/m. Fujos being common online doesn't mean they're the ones in charge. The fact is it's because of straight men and those straight men don't want to see gay men sucking face, though they're fine with lesbians. Many fujos in the West are also self hating and easily beaten down by people talking about fetishization and misogyny.
No.6026
>>6024>The fujos are writing published books but they're not the higher ups in game companies or anime production. I'm saying of those women staffers are pushing for lesbians then it's hard to believe the industry women aren't filled with fujos.
Look at Ao3 to see what a major dominate female website look.
No.6027
>>5964I can't take persona fujo seriously. Pick something that isn't a franchise were it's more acceptable to be a pedophile than to be gay jesus. The writer hates gay shit and only see women as trophies but people keep hoping he will give them their yaois
No.6028
>>6026Anon,the numbers of m/m fics in AO3 don't matter when there aren't any fujos in the c-suite. Even taking gender discrimination out of the equation (which very much exists), the creative minded people (which most fujos are) aren't the kind of people who occupy the positions of power in media, it's the business minded people.
No.6029
>>6027I just don't get why it not being canon matter, I guess I'm one of the fujos who takes shit but honestly I wouldn't be as interested in the ship if it was canon, the fun of fandom is exploring aspects and relationships that with never be touched by the main property. Persona has never had good romantic social link (in fact they temd to detract from the characters when you hit that point) so I don't see any value in it. That's just my personal opinion of course, and I'm nias since I think Persona shipping peaked with Adachi/Doujima in P4 anyway lol.
No.6030
>>6029>I wouldn't be as interested in the ship if it was canonI'm the same, 99% of the fun in shipping is taking the established character's dynamic and extrapolating it into your own fantasies. I think that applies for most fujos too whether they're aware of it or not considering the ships that get the most content are ones that aren't canon. When a pairing is made official stuff slows down since there's little "what-if's" you can do if their entire relationship is already laid out for you.
No.6031
>>6029my hands could have typed this. i don't want atlus touching gay relationships. the only good romance they ever wrote was in p3 (jundori, mc/aigis) and then they never did it again, despite having multiple opportunities. i'd much rather be fed interesting bait and leave it at that.
>>5964>They're so afraid to ever bring him back and confirm him as completely alive because the straight males hate him. All because he killed the waifus parents.where are you getting this from? where has atlus said that's why they won't bring him back? he's a moneymaker in terms of DLC, that's why he isn't included in everything lmao. why have him in things when they can make $$$ via DLC?
No.6032
>>6030I think if works with canon BL have an appealing enough sandbox they can still have a big fanwork library. It seems to happen more with danmei, but for more 'trad' BL Ayano Yamane's 'Viewfinder' also has over 1k fics on Ao3, which I think is a lot for something that features explicit gay sex nearly every chapter.
IMO what's getting fujos to care more about having a canon ship is less that they want it to be explicitly canon and more that they are tired of getting cucked by tragic/hetero endings. Especially now that fandom spaces are so public and when a series ends all the tourists come in to tap on the glass.
No.6033
>>6032I mean that's silly, just have the hetero characters drift apart between the ending of the series and your fanfic. Have the characters divorce, or have her die then the characters can bond over her death, have a secret relationship with adultery, or literally dont mention her if not needed. There are so many ways to write around it and I don't see a canon het ending as the death knoll for a ship.
>I think if works with canon BL have an appealing enough sandbox they can still have a big fanwork library. True, while "getting together" fics are my preference for both reading and writing for fantasy stories in particular if the world is interesting enough I don't mind established relationships.
No.6034
>>6033Oh I know the solution is "fuck canon" always, just trying to explain why you see a bigger push for fujo friendlier canon in a way that you really didn't see before. I also forgot to say that part of it is just younger fujos who don't have thick skin yet.
No.6035
>>6026You're falling into the same trap most of the jealous yuri shitters fall into. A fanfic site doesn't reflect real life and who is working on major media productions. Most of the execs are straight men, the directors, producers, writers, all straight men. Fujos aren't catered to in anime and get subpar adaptations. In the West, it's the same thing with straight men being in charge of most media and the ones who want to be "woke" are okay with lesbians but not gay men. That's why you see them arguing for the importance of male friendship and pulling no homos and fujos are so beaten down by the people calling them misogynists that they won't ever speak out.
No.6036
>>6029Pretty much. Last time I experienced media with a canon gay relationship it was FF16 and I found it both bland and barely relevant. When I ship characters in Blue lock I don't care that they obviously aren't actually horny for each other, it's just fun to look at the art and doujins and shitpost about soccer NTR.
No.6037
>>6031>mc/aigis>good romancelol. lmao.
No.6038
>>6029>I just don't get why it not being canon matter,And I don't get why you simp for a company that hates you and think you deserve less but it's willing to pander to pedophiles as long it's a straight relationship. You can date 15 girls but you can't date a single boy and then you complain "why aren't fujo pandered"
No.6039
>>6030> I think that applies for most fujos too whether they're aware of it or not considering the ships that get the most content are ones that aren't canon. There aren't enough canon homos in manga to even establish a trend of that. We do know canon BL VN get content. We also know that shit that veered toward canon like YoI and Bravern was successful as fuck.
The number 1 rule of romance is that you don't get the characters together until he very end.
This topic is starting to feel like "why fujos deserve less". Complain there aren't content and then bend to it
No.6041
>>6038Also in Persona 5 you can romance and make your adult female teacher your paid servant who comes in to give you backrubs wearing a maid outfit. But dating a boy your age is just too degenerate for Atlus and their fanboys.
No.6043
>>6038>>6041This. I get that most canon pairings are badly written, but that's because we're just getting served bread crumbs so most canon gay ships are shoved in token shit the writers didn't give two shits about. Just write characters and dynamics naturally and then add some fanservice for everybody.
Two characters won't turn to shit just because they get some short romantic extra or pandering tacked on. The only shitty ones are those that aren't written for no other reason than to exists as the "gays" for the dumb fujos in the hopes that they'll shut up.
No.6044
>>6038No, I'm not simping for Atlus, I just don't care about canon romance and like I said wouldn't be interested at all in the ship if it was canon since my joy from fandom is in-part exploring non-canon relationships. I enjoy BL manga, and I think NitroChiral VNs are swell, but I'm not interested in seeking out or creating fanworks of them. Probably due to the sandbox reason posted by
>>6030 At best I'll save a pretty picture of Aoba but it doesn't give me the same fandom itch.
I think its a shame Atlus was too much of a wimp to include the Yousuke romantic route in P4 despite it being far along in development. I'm not opposed conceptually to the concept of one. I just don't see how Akechi/Joker in it's present state would have been improved or even changed by being canon, it feels like a non-factor. Why get angry, like
>>6031 said he's a fan favorite, he's not in the shadow realm and Atlus' shitty writing can't compare with the work of fans.
No.6045
>>6036Actually, Blue Lock has a chance. The author has written canon gay before, hasn't he?
No.6046
When it comes to stuff like "But you're getting bread crumbs!", I don't choose what a series I'm interested in whether it's canon or not. Why not just read bl manga or some danmei in the first place?
If someone is shipping bl in Persona, they're also playing the game because they actually like the game no?
No.6047
>>6046A lot of people forget the transformative and explorative nature of being a fujoshi. And it's not just about turning straight characters gays but exploring the possibilities with art and writing.
I know that for a lot of people is not that deep and some just like play with paper dolls.
The suggestion of reading a BL or a danmei doesn't fully answer those needs. Reading a romance or a story with an heavy focus on romance, with characters that are fleshed out only for a purpose to develop the relationship, not the character alone doesn't give much input.
No.6048
>>6047>A lot of people forget the transformative and explorative nature of being a fujoshi. And it's not just about turning straight characters gays but exploring the possibilities with art and writing.I can get that but when somebody says "you're paying for shitty breadcrumbs" and "any fujo that pays for this shit is ridiculous" then it doesn't seem like exploring transformative art and writing as a fan, it sounds like you just want to be fed.
If you want to eat, then go to a restaurant that feeds you food you like.
If you want to cook, then cook at home.
No.6052
>>6048anyone is free to do whatever, both sides are in the right but also wrong. it's all about context and honestly this black and white way of seeing thing doesn't help imho.
but if i have to be completely honest about this, most of the time i read the "breadcrumbs" augment it doesn't feel like it's done in good faith but from people who feels superior because they read "real gay shit" and not made up fantasies written/drew by delusional fans.
No.6054
>>6046Yeah this is my point too. Everybody always tells me "just reald danmei and BL" but I hate danmei and for outright BL I can, at best, like it, but I never once got attached to the characters. Even if there is a character with potential the series is too short to make him grow on me enough.
I am not sure maybe other people have a different mindset? For me it's a bit like love. You don't choose whom you fall in love with, it just happens and it can happen with the people you expected the least. A pairing just clicks with me when I see it and there is maybe one out of 1000 that click, so I can't choose the genre. I am reading manga and comics, watching anime, playing VNs, reading LNs for 20 years now and 100% of the men I got obsessed with were from seinen or shounen series (or, respectively, comics for boys). No exceptions.
I can't do shit about it. If I could, I would. But it just happens that shoujo, danmei and usual BL character are apparently not for me. I don't love a character just because he's canonically gay. Fanservice is fine, but I only care if I like dynamic, designs, roles and individual characters before that.
No.6055
>>6052>feels superior because they read "real gay shit"There's definitely a bit of this at play. I always have to swallow my revulsion at the "le queer xDDD" marketing but I do make it a point buy indie games/lit by LGBT creators and none of it is ever more compelling than my shipping brainrot. It's good to have variety in your media but I think there is something to be said about how part of the fujo identity is having fun in the sandbox and how fujo haters just can't grok that.
>>6046I never got this argument either. Like, I'm not playing Call of Duty or whatever just because Ghost/Soap is popular.
No.6057
>>6052Not the nonna that brought it up but I happen to use the "breadcrumbs" argument too but it's the polar opposite of what I try to say when I mention it. I don't like the "real gay shit" because romances and characters that are gay for the sake of it (and probably looking like k-pop idols) don't work for me.
When I talk about breadcrumbs I am complaining about how differently fujos are treated because het and yuri fans for example get their shit in almost every series (het always did, yuri does get it quite often in modern times). My point is that the genre, setting and demographic is irrelevant when it's about het and yuri, it's everywhere.
You can read post-apocalyptical yuri, ghost yuri, war with yuri and whatever where yuri isn't the main focus but organically interwoven with the non-romantic main plot. But same doesn't exist for gay shit. I mean it can happen but they are so damn rare they happen like once every five years and even then it's usually just hinting and there is a high chance that you'll get a follow-up interview ala SamFlam where the directors confirm that everybody was straight and that you're stupid for thinking otherwise. There is no Gurren Lagann but with gay development or Frieren or Hellsing with gay development (I picked the series randomly and nothing against them, they're fantastic). Most series don't even have any male fanservice, despite female one being ubiquitous and unrepentant, even involving little girls and canon non-con.
If you wish that characters with top tier dynamics would get similar pandering fanservice as all the other (non-m/m) pairings then people will show you the way out and tell you to read yaoi. I am not asking for on-screen gay sex or even super canon confirmation or anything, just similar qualitative (not quantitative) treatment.
No.6061
>>6054What part of character writing in danmei disagrees with you?
Ngl, I've only recently started reading a bunch of them but they seem fine enough to me, for the most part it's usually fantasy plot oriented but with characters being gay.
If it's the Chinese cultivation or naming aspect, I can understand it.
No.6064
>>5973I hate how useless 4chan is nowadays. I want to talk about my shit but even weekly anime barely get discussions anymore. And they are only tolerable if it's a pure sausagefest or else there is at least one shizo in it that posts the exact same shit forever and waifu fags that spam their cringe greentexting. The catalogue is flooded with meme template threads like "stop liking evil women", "imagine the smell" and other crap and the rest are shitposting infested 24/7 generals and storytimes of manga everybody and their grandma has already read three times and half of the series already had a storytime a year before. It's a catastrophe.
I also feel like isekai crap and Mushoku Tensei in particular attracted the worst people on earth because that fucking series made adult loser reincarnation into horny shota, incest and canon harem endings mainstream and now everybody demands fucking harem endings and creators that pander them and lick their fat asses and I don't want to know what other crap preferences this series has established that I don't know about because I never watched it.
No.6065
>>6061If it's the Chinese cultivation or naming aspect, I can understand it.
Among other things yeah but tbh it's everything. The designs are also an off-turn for me. Way too feminine and the faces in particular look featureless and therefore bland and to me they look all the same and I can't stand samey looking characters, especially not if they're both part of the same ship. I also dislike the whole exaggerated fantasy aspect that Chinese stories tend to have but I hate court-locked royal drama too.
Maybe there are Danmei with gay warriors in an actual historical setting with creative designs and proper hair cuts somewhere but I haven't seen it so far.
No.6066
>>6065>proper haircutsIf it's a Chinese historical setting you're not gonna get short-haired men unless it's a bald monk. The loose flowing hair is a fantasy thing though, the 'historically accurate' look is long hair worn fully in a topknot, and technically with facial hair too because it wasn't meant to be shaved. You get some characters like that in danmei or cdramas but they're usually side characters.
If you didn't say you hate court drama I would rec Nirvana in Fire because although it's not BL (supposedly the novel was meant to be early on, though) it has a ton of BL shipping potential and the main actors are played by more mature looking guys instead of idols. There's also at least one hot older dilf but that's subjective by personal taste…
No.6067
>>6064>The catalogue is flooded with meme template threads like "stop liking evil women", "imagine the smell" and other crap and the rest are shitposting infested 24/7 Nta but this is so true. It's so frustrating because finding online discussion on any series feels impossible sometimes.
>I also feel like isekai crap and Mushoku Tensei in particular attracted the worst people on earth because that fucking series made adult loser reincarnation into horny shota, incest and canon harem endings mainstream The number of people online I've seen who tried to argue this series was somehow intellectual or deep is actually ridiculous. It's such an encapsulation of everything wrong with modern anime fandom.
No.6068
>>6065Honestly, character designs are something I can't understand when it's a written novel, nothing says you have to go one to one with the official designs.
For me personally, I imagined my own for stuff like Husky and White Cat Shizun and imagined the mc with bangs that would resemble a husky more, fangs, and blue eyes.
No.6069
>>6064>>6067Ngl, sometimes I lurk isekai threads because I like that sort of autistically genuine discussion on lore or, in the case of Overlord, genuine criticism of the story going arc by arc.
It's rare but probably not at much as the shounen threads.
No.6075
>>6065>I hate court-locked royal drama I've seen this complaint about danmei several times and I still don't know where it comes from because all the historical ones I've read were set around cultivation sects or businesses, and the rest are all police departments, bars, and laboratories.
No.6078
>>6029Because the majority of people think
canon=good
Which is a consolewar way of saying my ship is better than your ship.
They never even have fun with the potential dynamics of the ship even, they are just there saying "oh look they love each other canonically it's so cute"
It's like they need the validation to ship something, otherwise they wouldn't really be shipping it.
No.6080
>>6075Maybe they see series like Apothecary Diaries and Raven of the Inner Palace and think it's more of the same?
Looking it up, Heaven Official's Blessing apparently counts as court drama despite most of it taking place out of the court.
No.6085
>>6078The point of shipping is that you usually want the two characters to get together yeah. Fujos are the only one acting like wanting them to be together is a sin.
No.6087
>>6086And this is why fujos get all the money wrung out of them without writers and studios even having to deliver anything in exchange.
No.6089
>>6086>No it's not, it just means that the pairing it good regardless of canon status.Lol what the fuck? "Oh I like these two, I write fics where they kiss and marry and ruin their other ass but I don't want them to get together!!"
Do you realize how insane it sounds? The whole point of shipping is that you twink two characters look good together and should kiss.
No.6090
>>6089Considering the number of fictional gay couples who go canon and then either both or one of them dies, do you really want your ship to go canon? Het ships get ruined all the time by getting confirmed. There has been the occasional gay ship that I felt had the chance of actually going there or was at least being implied, however for the majority I know not to expect anything and would rather they both stay single at the end so I can keep playing in my sandbox.
No.6091
>>6089>>6089>>No it's not, it just means that the pairing it good regardless of canon status.Lol what the fuck? "Oh I like these two, I write fics where they kiss and marry and ruin their other ass but I don't want them to get together!!"
NTA but don't think anon stating means they don't want them to be canon lol you are implying things that no one said.
Of course anyone wants their ship to be canon but we have to be serious and understand that in a lot of non-BL works what we want doesn't happen.
No.6092
>>6089What? I meant that if a dynamic is good even if they don't kiss at the end it's still a good dynamic. I don't mind if they kiss and I don't mind if they don't because fujos always will feed themselves and I can write my own canon.
No.6093
>>6085>Fujos are the only one acting like wanting them to be together is a sin.Don't you mean anti-fujos? You always do this shit, man.
No.6094
>>6092Also I'll just add that a lack of a kiss at the end of a work doesn't magically change the last four seasons of character moments and shippy subtext. Nor can it make me interested in characters who's dynamic didn't interest me. Honestly speaking I am someone whose interest in seeking out fan works drops when two characters "get together" but please don't interpret that as me saying it's a bad thing. Of course we're all rooting for two characters to get together, I just don't think Dean/Castiel's status as a great ship is changed now that they are canon. It was great for a decade before and it's still great now. I feel like I must be explaining myself poorly but I hope it's clear enough.
No.6096
>>6078No it's because I want a little nod into my direction, opposed to having pure job related alliances between two guys and 0 fanservice, hints or pandering.
I don't care about canon in the sense of "winning" shit, I don't even need it to be 100% canon, I just want some actual fuel. I can usually not get into a pairings just because they talked to each other once or twice. Golden Kamuy or SK8 are good examples of what I mean. (Mostly) not canon, but at least proper pandering and gayish behavior for some of the characters, opposed to "just imagine everything in your head, sis".
If I have to imagine everything I might as well fap to my own OCs. The whole attractiveness about getting into others' characters is that I meet new characters and ideas from a third party with shipping dynamics that love that I didn't create myself.
I dunno, I don't get why asking for a bit hinting or canon is so looked down in fujo spaces when everybody else is getting it. Imagine if no series ever confirmed any sexual attraction between any male or female or female and female character and how it would affect sales and het/yuri audiences.
There is nothing bad about at least confirming love interests or hinting the sexuality, even if the pairing itself isn't confirmed.
No.6097
>>6096Dynamics are key and I don't think anyone is arguing otherwise, but this whole convo started from someone who is upset Joker/Akechi isn't canon, not someone who is arguing canon shippy moments shouldn't happen.
No.6101
>>6097Oh yeah I am neutral towards Persona tbh because I have yet to play P5 so I have no idea how I will feel about it.
For me it's more about the desire to get some little gay tidbits. I enjoy dynamics way more if they actually FEEL gay, opposed to 100% of the gay content being fanfic locked. I don't demand canon in the actual sense, but at least some back hug, enthusiastic friendship or one or two domestic scenes or something since that makes everything better. But it usually means that the author is aware of the fujo audience or even actively shipping them themselves.
No.6132
>>6031Moneymaker in dlc but still irrelevant in any of those spinoffs because Royal left the door open for a continuation but they're too scared to do one. Being stuck with spinoffs that don't matter where the characters are flanderized isn't that great and he still gets less screentime.
>>6044he's a fan favorite, he's not in the shadow realm and Atlus' shitty writing can't compare with the work of fans.
Being a fan favorite but still completely ignored because the men hate him is why. They got what they want. They want him dead and they can say that he's dead because it will never be confirmed he's not because they cut the scene showing him alive. I don't understand why fujos for this game accept less. I'm not happy with just fan work. It's just another long line of fujobait characters being treated in a way a waifu would never be treated. It's one thing to have no romance, and another to have a character completely ignored and left in limbo because he's not appealing to straight men who like characters who did far worse than what he did.
No.6153
>>6151>is fiction =! realityWell yes? Yes that's the definition of fiction lol
Also why do those puritans get offended and compare yaoi to porn but not 2D het?? Or do non-fujos not consume any porn? What do they think about twilight shit?
No.6158
>>6048There are people who do this, getting mad at other fujos for making ships with no canon basis popular. When it reality it doesn't matter.
No.6161
>>6158Tbf it should at least be similiar to the characters in canon, or else you get trans race and sex swapped coffee au stuff that's basically an oc on all but name, there's a place between the middle of the two.
No.6169
>>6075>>6075Remnants of Filth?
Ballad of Sword and Wine?
No.6171
>>6169>Ballad of Sword and WineIs this OEL danmei or was the title changed in translation? I thought only western YA novels used the X of Y and Z naming pattern kek
No.6173
>>6151What's so difficult about a SSA woman enjoying yaoi? You can read something, and not feel attraction to either of the men in that story or book. The amount of straight women watching lesbian porn straight up destroys their argument by virtue of the narrative no longer holding water. In other words, their narrative is flimsy.
No.6186
>>6151It's always hilarious how people have no problem with lesbians enjoying het ships but lesbian fujos are an outlandish concept and must be "bihetdemons" because you can only enjoy fiction where you coom to imagining yourself fucking the sex you're attracted to.
No.6200
>>6151Even reading all of this I have no idea what SSA means. Why are terminally online people so obsessed with neologisms and new acronyms. Even urban dictionary doesn't know it. >The word "ass" backwards.
No.6201
>>6200It's just an acronym for Same-Sex Attraction. But really, they could just use lesbian or gay instead of SSA, cause you're right that looking it up results in almost everything but the meaning they're using.
No.6202
>>6200I only learnt it recently through a youtuber laughing at Mormons. Seems some Christians got it in their heads that being "SSA" is different from "gay" because they need to be on God's good side and can't ever accept homosexuality.
No.6203
>>6201>>6202Thank you. And oh man that's really stupid. The only advantage I can see in using SSA is when you talk about both genders, but "gay" technically already does that even though most are using gay for m/m only.
And I get that it might look weird at first but 2D and fiction are different from reality. I am borderline asexual (as in, 30 now and never kissed or had the urge to fuck irl) and I had never had a crush in real life but I can be on love with fictional characters, if I am allowed to call that love, that is. Anyway I can be attracted to 2D characters but not real people so I am not surprised that same can happen with gender only. I even know men I am sure are hetero that told me they could go gay for one or two certain anime characters.
It's not just the look and behavior, the more I thought about this the more I noticed the most everything else that sets fictional characters apart from real people but that would make me write a textwall. Fact is that it's a different thing and just as you might love stories about wars but not want to experience war in real life you might love a gender or sex in fiction but not in reality.
No.6206
The antifujo shit surrounding Arcane is making me start to really hate it, is the fujobait even enough to bicker about "muh internalized misogyny"?
I don't remember this much bullshit years ago back when season one happened. It really feels like Covid made everyone lose their goddammn minds.
No.6207
>>6206The discourse with Arcane is worse than before because Caitvi is canon now. Therefore the logic is there's no excuse for anyone to prefer Jayvik when there's an official gay pairing handcrafted by the creators.
What annoys me is how it's entirely one-sided. Arcane fujos are minding their own business making their own art and fics, at worst people made some jokes about the yaoi being more gay than the lesbian sex scene
which is objectively true kek yet they still get lambasted for the sin of enjoying a ship. Even the co-creator doesn't like it. Yurifags and hetfags get their canon ships while fujos get nothing as always but get lampooned by everyone anyway.
No.6208
>>6203>>6201I legit see the SSA term for the first time. I was confused and thought it has something to do with Straight Shotacon for a second.
No.6209
>>6173>The amount of straight women watching lesbian porn straight up destroys their argument I don't disagree with the point you're trying to make but what you're bringing up here is also a number of "straight" women that are in denial. People feel weird explaining what they're into isn't what they want to do irl and would rather compartmentalize it as something that isn't real.
No.6210
>>6209if someone doesn't want to do something irl, how are they in denial? female sexuality does not work like male sexuality does, studies show that women are able to get aroused by a wider variety of stimulus compared to men, some of which do not necessarily mean they are attracted to what is being represented, the possible explanation given by science being that since intercourse for women can be painful if not desired, nature striked a balance by making women with more broad "unrelated" turn-ons.
i'd argue even men could potentially be the same to a lesser extent, i have met many straight men who have at least once masturbated to men/dicks/gay stuff without being homosexual or even bi themselves. i think with them it happens less because of many reasons, some of them biological and many others not and purely social.
sexuality is well documented to be a spectrum and i know many lesbian fujos, although they are admittedly a minority.
No.6211
>>6151>Of course lesbian fujos are problematicAh yes, there's nothing more dangerous and bad than lesbians reading yaoi fanfiction
No.6214
>>6213The "Harm real people" part always gets to me. As if Joe the gay guy's life is changed in any sort of way by a japanese woman's drawings of anime guys having sex.
No.6215
>>6214No one tell them that the yaoi board on 4chan is mostly men kek
No.6216
>>6213>exclusively about two bland characters fucking and that being the main highlightThis is encapsulates barashit more accurately than the average yaoi
No.6217
>>6216>this encapsulates barashitwhich is ironically a better representation of what gay men are like and what they actually look for in media lol
No.6218
>>6216>>6217Oh that's a bit mean, there is cute sfw bara out there that runs in seinen magazines, it's just their porn is absolutely vile lol.
No.6220
>>6057>Most series don't even have any male fanserviceIf by male fanservice you mean stuff like on-screen bathing scenes (and casual nudity in general), they do, and even then they don't emphasize the visual eroticism aspect of it compared to female fanservice.
No.6221
>>6220Yeah this what I mean. What I want is the "male gaze" but for male characters so female/gay gaze whatever you call it. Even nudity isn't hot if it isn't presented accordingly and my favorite fanservice is dudes MOVING sexy and clearly suggestive scenes. But it's so damn rare and outside of actual 18+ yaoi manga I have weirdly enough only seen it in some seinen and for side characters in a few shounen so far, never outright fujo series.
No.6222
>>6218I wish there was a term for 2D men that don't match the generic bishounen/femboy/shota categories but aren't outright bara. Most call the shit I like bara because I am into adult dudes with muscles and scars, beards or abnormal faces but it creates misunderstandings, because bara is also understood as that genre of yaoi porn with exaggerated proportions and fat, hairy dudes.
I need a word for the guys between the two extremes because they are fucking hard to google and filter and I am not into conventionally attractive manga and JRPG guys or highschool boys that make up the large majority of all characters, argh.
No.6223
>>6222I agree. There's "twunk" but not a lot of people use it and it still has a pretty variable definition. "Ikemen" suffers from the same problem.
>>6057>If you wish that characters with top tier dynamics would get similar pandering fanservice as all the other (non-m/m) pairings then people will show you the way out and tell you to read yaoi. I am not asking for on-screen gay sex or even super canon confirmation or anything, just similar qualitative (not quantitative) treatment.This is why I'm always rooting for unpaired endings because it's the ONLY way you can get this specific kind of thing without it leaving a sour taste in your mouth. It's easy enough to ignore canon (especially when the het bomb is always just like the last 10 mins of a hours-long endeavor) but the suckerpunch at the end still stings.
No.6224
>>6223>but the suckerpunch at the end still stings.Even as someone that never experienced it (I was always into side characters so far) it think it's dirty when it comes out of nowhere. My personal problem is that the characters I am into will most likely die and there is always the danger that they break apart on top of it before they get killed.
It's annoying but it seems like you are fucked regardless of whom you are into if you gayship. If you like male MCs they will get canon het developments or endings and if you like the male side characters they will die or maybe even backstab or kill each other. The only safe ones are MC het shippers and fans of female side characters since they are way less likely to get bad ends.
No.6231
>>6213Everyone stop writing fanfics of anime, you're white you can't write asian people. :^)
>>6216*blant characters
No.6234
>>6213I've always wondered wtf ~fetishizing gay man~ actually means. What tf qualifies for ~fetishization~ and how would they describe it without using that term? Is it just a fantasy and finding something attractive (gay men)? Couldn't you apply that logic to every sort of fictional fantasy? And how would that actually harm real people?? Notice how antis never complain about men watching porn, just other women they can bully
>>6225>fujoshis get killed on sight if they touch Givenffs are these people real
No.6237
>>6234To strongman the argument since playing devil's advocate is fun, I assume it's the fact that a majority of fiction about gay men is written by and for women and thus is not a realistic view of them but a fantasy through a female lens. It's similar to how most Hollywood movies about Black people (or any minority) are by old white guys. Of course if this is a serious concern I would argue it's up to consumers to seek out and promote more authentic content not to berate authors and artists. It's doubly funny since I have never met a gay man upset by fujos in anime spaces, at worst I met a guy who thought yaoi had too many young guys.
No.6238
>>6234It's getting off to the emphasis of the concept of… gay man? To be primarily aroused by the fact it's gay and man as the focus. Honestly I get what they're trying to suggest but I also can't because I have fetishes I'm heavy on and they simply don't work like that. I can't imagine any fic discussing gay men being gay men in the same way that a fetish fic would talk about a character being chunky or weighty without it sounding absurdly stupid. Like,
He sauntered flamboyantly into the room and met the homosexual gaze of the other patrons. Deep inside he could feel his same sex attraction rising up, the need to suck raw cock boiling within.He declared gayly, "I'M DOWN TO FUCK BUT ONLY MEN WHO ENJOY DICK. IN ASS."Several other men gasped at his open queerness. How they wished to be so proud and visible as this unrestrained gay, who looked at their masculine forms with satisfaction (because he liked men). No.6243
>>6234i dislike when a character is canonically gay because i find gay men a turn off, as in their sexual orientation is unappealing and so is the stereotypically gay mannerism irl, so i wouldn't even say i ~fetishize~ gay men and i'm not the first fujo to think this. i like when the characters are either straight with an exception for their gay love interest, or only interested in the other guy without having an established sexuality.
having this preference is considered homophobic anyways so you can't win with antis
No.6244
>>6225>Ikemen is associated men that are more feminine/prettyI have seen rugged looking Hollywood guys called ikemen so I think the term is much more broad than that. There's ike-ojisan too. I think it can apply to any guy that is 'handsome' in some conventional way.
No.6245
>>6225these people caping for given as if it's not your standard BL never fail to make me laugh. considering one of the characters tries to the rape the other and it's not as a fluffy as they want it to pretend it is. don't get me wrong, i love given but the western fanbase is so confusing to me.
No.6248
>>6225>Ikemen is associated men that are more feminine/pretty Literally wrong.
No.6249
>>6248>Google Ikemen>A bunch of VNs like pic related comes upWhat do you mean nonna?
>>6244Well, that's still overly broad then and not as well defined as an arctype like bishie, shota, or ojisan. I guess I want a term that will just get the rugged ones and not whatever pic-rel
No.6252
>>6250if anything the people on the left are antis and scrotes, not the "yaoi community". they wish they were us lmao
No.6253
>>6251You didn't answer my actual point, but oh well. I've already accepted there isn't a good term for the archetype I enjoy. And with that we're at Bumplimit and need a new thread.
No.6254
>>6250in my life i saw more on the left side the yuri community than the yaoi one lol and usually people who bring up "canon this and that" are a) haters of the ship or the manga/anime b) chuds bothered by gay fanart
No.6256
>>6249Where is the megane option?