/ffs/ - Fujo Fandom Sperging

For me the most frustrating thing I run into is not cuntboy fics since my filters catch them but "X reader" stories. There are even decently written ones out there but would be infinitely more interesring with an OMC. How does one even self-insert as a Japanese student, or a wizard in a historical fantasy? Maybe it betrays a lack of creativity on my part, but even ignoring my preference for BL I can't find them all that immersive. I'm actually fine with character x OC depending on the series, sometimes turning an unammed bodyguard background character into the romantic interest is fun and allows for more freedom than a more "established" character would. But if [[your name]] wants to read with [[his/her]] tired [[color]] eyes after a long shift at [[workplace]] this style of storytelling if just obnoxious

Another interesting compotent of self-insert fandom is chatbots. I have a coworker who spends hours "texting" Bakugou from BnHA on Character AI, she's almost a decade younger then me so I figured it must just be a younger person thing, but so I started seeing it pop up in communities I use. Curiosity got thr better of me so I bit the bullet and tried one for the character I consider my husbando (Tohru Adachi). It just didn't feel authentic at all, it just seemed like a bot with a sarcastic slant programed in. Tried a few other characters I knew on the front page and none of them felt authenic, some had funny typing quirks like a Mario one that a-typed-like-these, but most were generic and I can't imagine spending hours "talking" to one.

>>5539
I'm exhausted and forgot to mention that art like that image kindof annoys me as well. It's drawn just fine the artist is talented, but who looks at a featureless character and is able to project themselves onto it?

>>5538
This isn't full on self-inserting but it annoys me when a shipper clearly lusts for one character and just uses the other as a "vessel" to act out what they want. It's pretty common and obvious when their favorite character is the bottom, they'll always tweet about wanting to fuck him, etc. and then basically reduce the top to a personalityless dildo. They clearly don't like the ship because they find the relationship/dynamic interesting, they're just there for one character so why are these type of fans even here.

And this might sound nonsensical but while they tweet about wanting to do XYZ to the bottom, even if it sounds like they're posting from the top's perspective, it really just sounds like wish fulfillment in the sense that they're projecting what they want onto bottom (because lbr most fujos are straight women and write from that perspective). It's like they're self-inserting into the top and bottom simultaneously. But regardless these types of shippers annoy me because I don't understand why you'd want anything to do with the characters personally. They tend to be the type to write the characters OOC too because they only give a shit about half of the pairing.

>>5542
I agree heavily, it makes me wonder why they cant just make an OMC or Mob character to do the work rather than mischaracterize a pre-existing character as a stand in for the supposed "ship".
I can take a couple joking quips of what the person would want to do with the bottom, but when you start reflecting these desires onto random characters, regardless if it would be in character or not, it starts getting into weird self insert territory

>>5538
I've never really 'gotten' self-inserting. One thing that initially attracted me to BL was how defined the protagonists were compared to some other genres. Ultimately, I'm here to see two characters interact, so I don't factor into the equation at all. It's actually led to me not connecting to some pieces of media where the protagonist felt too bland or too much like a vessel for the reader.

This might be hyper-specific, but it's also extremely annoying when fic writers try to change one of the characters to make that character more like themself. I've seen fics where the author just randomly adds some sort of disability to a character who did not have it in canon (like ADHD or autism or something), and it's always painfully obvious that it's a condition the author also has. Same for when the author decides to give a character a random hobby or interest that doesn't fit with the character's canonical portrayal, or some sort of insecurity that the writer invented for the character. Completely takes me out of the story.

>>5542
Agreed. What's really frustrating is trying to talk about my ships with people like this. I get that everyone can like what they like, but I feel like I have nothing in common with people who do this. Like, the whole reason we're consuming the media is at complete odds. It's almost like they're treating one of the characters like a tool or device rather than another character to contribute to the dynamic.

>>5539
>Another interesting compotent of self-insert fandom is chatbots. I have a coworker who spends hours "texting" Bakugou from BnHA on Character AI, she's almost a decade younger then me so I figured it must just be a younger person thing, but so I started seeing it pop up in communities I use.
I suspect the rise in character chatbots has to do with people wanting to scratch the same itch as roleplaying does but without the risk of your RP partner turning out to be a creep. Especially for younger people in fandom RPing can be dangerous cause of all the groomers out there.
>>5546
>I've never really 'gotten' self-inserting. One thing that initially attracted me to BL was how defined the protagonists were compared to some other genres.
Agreed. While I'm primarily a fujoshi I've sometimes consumed otome media over the years but it's always a turnoff when someone will post a steam link to a VN that has handsome men in it but then the steam page will mention that the protagonist is just customisable pronouns instead of their own character. Any romance in there is just going to be the blandest thing possible because the writers have to make it neutral enough to appeal to any player.

>>5538
I am not sure if I ever self-inserted. I can relate to some characters a lot and see myself in them, but I don't feel the need to change their past to make it identical to mine, add dumb shit like them being NEETs like me when they aren't (kinners do that) or give them a vagina. I don't need any of that to relate.

Think the closest I ever got to identify with a character was with Shinji from NGE and Tsukasa from .hack, but I wasn't sexually attracted to them so I didn't ship either.

The main issue with self-inserting is that it makes every post about a character others make incredibly personal. You don't ship a character anymore, you ship "them". Self-inserters cannot act rational because they think they ARE the character and they usually happen to be super sensitive, emotionally labile people so they overract and want a story to turn to shit to fulfill their retarded desires.
Like when an otaku wants the male characters to disappear and the MC to fuck every girl. God awful story, but he doesn't care because he believes it was all about him and his retarded urgges.

What I hate is how self-inserters try to twist what they're doing into "it's just empathy", thats not what empathy is. Empathy is being able to understand a character without bringing yourself into it. Rewriting a characters past and personality in your brain to make it easier for yourself to understand is the opposite of being empathetic. Projection is not empathy.

I don't mind it in fanfiction because that's just someone's escapism, but why do resources need to go into commercial works with self-inserting? Why do people want to pay to read extensively about guys that unconditionally love and revolve around a robotic, boringly nice Y/N? You can just imagine that in your head for free
Interesting character dynamics and good dramatic payoff are a lot harder to think up, which… hmm… seems like the entire reason people get paid to make stories for others in the first place?
I guess people consume media for different reasons, but it's hard for me to imagine preferring self-insert comfy cozy SoL over something actually engaging

>>5556
Self-inserting is the least empathetic thing you can ever do. I will die by that statement. Imagine not feeling for the character because it's not you. That's sociopathic behavior

>>5556
One of the big issues with self-inserters (that wasn't mentioned yet) is the irrational hatred towards antagonists and the annoying lack of interest in canon, worldbuilding and other characters too since self-inserters are obsessed with their alter-ego getting everything he wants.

And yes they try to justify everything rationally. Like explaining why every antagonist deserves shit, even if the precious self-insert character isn't better than them, why their pairings are right and all others wrong (so they become antis) and lots of other shit. And don't even get me started with the self-projection when they headcanon that the self-insert shares all of their viewpoints, even political ones, and fight to defend this shit.

>>5538
I don't know if I'm being schizo or if there is a legit erosion of the idea of making a character that isn't you.
I was watching some kid shows with a relative and each time there was an episode about some sort of creativity, it was centered around the protagonist.
Learning to paint, they paint themselves. Learning to write, they write a comic of themselves wearing a cape with superpowers. Constantly there was this vibe of "I'm having fun being creative because I get to write about ME!". If they meet some historical figure, it's always "wow they're just like me".
Stuff like "there isn't a superhero that looks like me, so I'll make one that does!" Now, I know as a kid some shows would do this, but I don't remember it being this bad.

>>5557
>I guess people consume media for different reasons
This is the central problem with every issue involving media.
There are people that consume it as background noise, so it has to be easy to understand even to someone who doesn't pay attention. Others only use it as shit to calm their urges and fantasies, so they only care about a story involving MC getting the girl or being the super dude or super special princess like in isekai stuff.
Others again want an engaging story or are there for the character dynamics. Fujos usually fall into the latter two categories, often at the same time. But because of this they are inherently incompatible to self-inserters (m or f), waifu fags, switch-brain-off fags and other subtypes of audiences.


A HUGE issue with anime is that westerners don't take it seriously because it's drawn. This INCLUDES otaku. Because of this the audiences that care about story or characters are small and usually stick to live action. This is the bane of fujo and why you either share the fandom with spergs or feel lonely and are one of the five only damn westerners loving it while 99% of the rest of the fanbase are Asians that are more likely to anime seriously.

>>5581
It's not your imagination, I call it the "validation" trend and it started around the mid 10s. You also notice it for anime. Look at all the female and male otaku MCs we get. Isekai MCs. Otome fanatics and fujos in anime or the MCs of office romances. Every MC has to be the "literally me" character these days.

In the past the standard hero was someone cool like Kenshiro or He-Man, now it's otaku or insecure chosen ones for anime and overweighted kids, boys with anxiety attacks, ADHD lesbians and other stuff. Those are attempts of representing the audience, this is also where "woke" trends comes from. It has rarely genuine, it's usually just a brown US American to represent the US audience.

The plots are the same. Most cartoons I watched the last years were about validation. Every conflict was about an insecurity and ending with everybody telling MC that they are "valid" the way they are, shouldn't change. Classic stories had the opposite moral and the MC was supposed to change and grow. They expected the audience to relate regardless and we did! To me it was inspiring to see a MC improving and getting strong. Now they believe it would make them feel bad about themselves.

>>5546
>I've never really 'gotten' self-inserting. One thing that initially attracted me to BL was how defined the protagonists were compared to some other genres.
I'm the same. I remember being baffled at the amount of yumes on Lolcow and those horny YA readers on booktok who unironically said they can't enjoy romance that doesn't allow self inserting because I've always found shit like that so cringe and awkward, I'd much rather read about a defined couple and their relationship as it is. A lot of straight media is based on self insertion to a degree which is probably why I was never into romance as a genre before getting into BL. And even in BL I can't get into the ship at all if the other character is too bland or obviously meant for (you) purposes, but that seems much less common than it is in most straight romances.

>>5580
>One of the big issues with self-inserters (that wasn't mentioned yet) is the irrational hatred towards antagonists and the annoying lack of interest in canon, worldbuilding and other characters too since self-inserters are obsessed with their alter-ego getting everything he wants.
Oh, absolutely. This is possibly my biggest gripe with them because they seem to actually hate the canon source, but obsess over this one character which is why they stick around and spit venom at anyone who actually enjoys the canon and the conflict written in it.

>>5583
I would bet that this trend was started by producers who said that people will consume their product if they can relate to the characters, and the easiest way to do so is to just make every main character a self insert because you don't have to mind their writing since leaving them just vague enough people will fill in the gaps themselves.

>>5581
It's true. Speaking from american perspective, but the dogma around writing has become "write what you know". This is the advice given to anyone who goes into writing. The Express of the self is put on a pedestal as the very meaning of art itself. We also have retards who think it's morally wrong to write about a character of a different race/gender/sexuality etc. Using art to explore that which exists outside of you has been thrown to the wind.

>>5591
It doesn't help that online criticism is amplified to be louder than it has ever been. Unless you put hundreds of hours into research to get everything as right as you can in your story, people will lambast it to list all the things you got wrong and hold you accountable for it. So people just end up creating inoffensive slop about mundane things that flies under the radar just enough to make everyone leave you alone, and storytelling to explore something inaccessible to you in real life exists no more.

>>5542
This is my greatest gripe with self inserting that isn't blatant (literally me) x character.
You can just tell when someone is basically a honorary yumejo if they only care about one character specifically and the relationships they supposedly ship are just glorified "I just want X to be fucked".
The west does a lot of cuntboytisms but jp does the whole one-side genderbends too when one of the characters (usually the bottom) is just straight up a girl.
At that point you are just insert yourself being loved by the character you love the most.

>>5580
Yes!! Related to this, there's the weird aversion to anything bad happening to the characters. When you get THAT invested into seeing a character as 'you,' anything bad that happens starts to feel like a personal attack, and anything the villain does feels like it's hurting you personally.

>>5592
That's true that some people are pressured out of writing compelling stories due to insane standards, but some of write that way because it's literally what their concept of a story is. I think the worst part was finding out that most people in fact do prefer using fiction for self-indulgence and ego-stroking rather than exploration and connection. Like they look at all the rich stories and intelligent authors in the world and consciously pick slop over that. I didn't know my faith in humanity could be killed even further.

>>5542
I LOVE fanfics written in the first person from the PoV of the top/the more active part of a relationship, which is the opposite of this so I relate.
I can sometimes enjoy some degenerated mob/character porn too but I hate it when the partner gets his personality erased to be a living dick. Where is even the fun?

It's even more cryptic when they love the bottom or would love to fuck him. Especially then you should be able to relate to the top and come with good ideas of how to write him. How does he try to get the other's attention or enjoy the time together? What does he thinks the other is thinking? How horny is he and so on but combine all that with his canon personality to make it fun and explore his personality. You get the intimacy with the bottom anyway so why not exploring both of them? It's so stupid and especially bad when the top is a great character on his own.

>>5597
>Especially then you should be able to relate to the top and come with good ideas of how to write him
This is why I think they're also paradoxically self-inserting into the bottom at the same time. They themselves probably just want a blank slate of a person to simply service and attend to their needs, that's why the top never has any personality beyond being there to fuck. In a better world these people would just stick to mob pairings but you don't get much community or clout from that. I've also noticed a pattern of how many of these types are "all(bottom)" shippers aka they ship the uke with anyone. Really just shows how interchangable the top is for them. None of them "like" the pairings because the relationship is interesting, it's more like dolls they can swap out when they wanna see the uke get fucked in different ways.

I think people fundamentally misunderstand what self insertion even means and invent some superhuman mental ability that doesn't exist for the sole purpose of shitting on other fans with different tastes. I don't mean that as in fujos, but that it's a problem across the whole of anime fandom. Guys constantly fight over which titty anime is superior and start accusing their opponents of "self inserting", and will try to erase all the personality traits and developments of a male protagonist just to say "you guys like worse media than me, an intellectual". I'm enjoying this character and want to see him with other characters, and then eight people will scream at me "STOP LIKING HIM HE HAS NO TRAITS HE'S A SELF INSERT." Maybe because you have difficulty caring for male characters as a straight man and refuse to read into the behavior and commentary given to us? Geez.

>>5541
>who looks at a featureless character and is able to project themselves onto it?
You're not meant to? It's not for you. If you think this mob character by an artist who draws nothing but gay porn is meant to be literally you then you're being weird.

The rest of what you talked about is all shit though. I can't stand people thinking entire AI chatlogs are "funny memes" to spam on social media when the humor is just AI not managing to sound like the character in the slightest. I genuinely have never read nor met someone who has read one of those xReader fics with the placeholders, only seen people parody them for shitposts, but I assume they're children who haven't developed standards yet. They're just excited for all eight sentences of content so they can go "omg real omg i like same thing so bad i will die (sobbing emoji) (skull emoji)".

>>5542
People like this are why I'm constantly giving disclaimers that one character is my main focus that I'm biased towards, even though I'm careful to try and say a sentence on the other character for every one sentence about my favorite in the ship. I can't help my preferences but I can at least try to respect the other characters and discuss their unique dynamics with him. The way he interacts with other people is still a part of him and you lose something if you remove from it.

The more I read this thread the more I think I really don't have any experience with self inserters in fandom. This is some insane alien logic.

>>5605
>The more I read this thread the more I think I really don't have any experience with self inserters in fandom
Consider yourself lucky unless you're the unaware self-inserter posting here kek I kid. Don't shoot me

>>5605
I think actual self-inserters are what people call kinners nowadays. They are very different from your typical otaku let alone fujos.
Self-inserting is different from being viewing the top/MC as blank state who only exists to fuck a character. This is how men usually watch media I think. They rarely self-insert, it's more about the MC being a tool that they want to see marrying the girl. They don't care about the dude, they want to see the girl becoming a waifu similar to how "solo"-fujos just want the character to get fucked.

Both is okay I think. The actual self-inserting is KINNING and you usually find these people on tumblr and instagram and they are often the most annoying fans you will ever meet.

>>5605
>The more I read this thread the more I think I really don't have any experience with self inserters in fandom.
It may just be the type of fandom you're in. You also may have a more discerning eye when it comes to fanfiction lol. It's deeply irritating to see fic writers turn a developed character into an in-universe version of themselves, but I'm sure it's less common in fandoms that skew older or have more mature members.

>>5654
I will never forget that self-inserting Mass Effect crazy that pretended to be Sparatus (some turian ambassador of the galatic council or whatever they fuck they were called) and got her mind broken when part 2 had a scene where rumor claimed that this character had cheated on his wife.

It wasn't even relevant, it was just some funny gossip. But that person (a TIF) was so obsessed with that alien dude that she wrote novel-length fics of his farm house and uncle from the military that were just literal autobiographic details of her own life. The game character didn't have an uncle or anything and was certainly not from a farm of whatever US state that person was from obsessed over (I can't even name more than four states, take that America).

I talked to her at first since we both liked aliens but it was cringe witnessing all of that. She even forced a matriarch grandma in that was a clone of her own one and turned the game wife (that was never shown) into a tradwife and the guy into a tard that loves her unconditionally so the reveal broke her. Instead of ignoring it she turned into a broken record making the same posts stating that canon isn't canon over and over again lmao

THIS is what a self-inserter is. Her character bore no resemblances to the canon guy anymore, she literally turned him into herself including her environment (even the fucking dog)