No.2521[View All]
Discuss the current state of modern fandoms with the anti/pro discourse.
>What is pro/anti discourse? Pro and anti refers to two stands in current fandom culture of what is acceptable or not to show in fiction. Anti is someone who is against anything that can be considered problematic (incest, age gaps, abuse,etc) and pro is someone who is in favour of anything problematic. But the labels can usually be something bigger, like discourse with headcanons, whitewashing, etc etc… The problematic things are just the more common ones.
>Where do these discourses usually take place?Usually on places like Twitter, Tumblr and Ao3, but they can also be seen in other places like Discord servers, TikTok and so on.
>Are there any reads about this?Here's a few, feel free to post more that you find!
https://note.com/orangiah/n/n437e262ce2ce (Japanese artist explaining the whole anti/pro thing)
https://www.themarysue.com/fandom-has-a-purity-culture-problem/ (general article talking of purity culture in fandom spaces)
https://www.cbr.com/cartoon-fandom-has-a-puritanism-problem/ (article about puritanism as well as a debunk in another article saying children's media has a porn problem)
Last thread
https://archive.is/9WPtF No.10123
>>10121>people who haven't touched the manga or any of the OVAshow the fuck do they like it then? obviously not counting the terrible 3d anime adaptation everyone shat on either lmao. surely if they like something for the aesthetic, they would actually read it?
No.10125
>>10121related, I knew a guy who literally had a tattoo of one of the factions from 40k, he never read any of the books or played the games, just watched a few lore videos and thought it was cool based on aesthetics
No.10148
>>10147this just in masturbation is incest
No.10153
>>10147The most spineless shit I've ever seen.
No.10154
>>10147Being upset by the "cest" part of the word is so fucking weird if you know the etymology. Spoilered for off topic language sperg, but
the word "incest" comes from the Latin word "incestus," which means "impure." The word, "incestus," is derived from two things: "in," which means "not," and "castus," meaning "pure" (it has some other meanings, but they're all some form of purity/innocence/morality, so you get the idea). There's nothing in the word, "castus," implying inbreeding, if that's this person's only issue with the term, "selfcest." No.10155
>>10147If you tag a fic "mirrorshipping" and there's no mirror dimension involved I'm getting hella disappointed.
>>10154So what you're saying is that selfcest is the purest form of love?
No.10160
>>10147>Maruki pfpCertainly explains the retardation
No.10268
>>10267This is the poster child of needing to go outside and touch some damn grass.
No.10269
>>10267This person has some major cognitive issues and genuinely needs help from someone that specializes in delusions.
No.10270
>>10267>I am THE poster child for "fiction affects reality"I wonder if OP was groomed as a child with porn or something? maybe she should get help for moral ocd-type thoughts and get off of the internet, really sad
No.10271
>>10267Has she ever considered that maybe thinking that fiction affects reality made things worse?
No.10273
>>10267I don't think normie therapist knows what the fuck is "proshipping"
No.10274
>>10267If five different professionals think that you're creating your own 'trauma' by refusing to see fiction as fiction …. maybe it's time to listen? Chronically online kids just want to hear someone validate their thoughts instead of work on solutions or coping mechanisms if it truly affects them.
No.10276
>>10267>this is the fifth therapist what the fuckkk ahahahahahha lool
c'mon, the absolute mental state of these people lmaoo imagine the misery of being around them all the time, i feel bad for anyone near them.
No.10277
>>10267This entire discourse became coocoo bananacakes once it crossed the threshold of calling everything from enemies to lovers fanfiction to actual real life pedophilia as "proshipping". Your brain can't be this fried to say "how can I ever get help if everyone in this field seems to live proshipping so damn much". They're therapists agreeing with the science of being able to take control over your trauma by art therapy, not twitter user sh0taBussyL0ver69 you spent three days and nights arguing with in the QRTs.
No.10301
anti shit has honestly turned me off from drawing any fan art for anything i like at this point
i hate all my anti ass mutuals ive collected by accident but "proshippers" are annoying asf on twitter
ive just started abandoning fandom to an extent which sucks ass man, i left my anti fujo era behind in high school! im an adult with a job who wants to talk about pervert yaoi and gay shit as a hobby and now its a damn political stance
No.10352
>>10351>calling PASWG shotacon/loliconHoly shit, these people need to stop misusing words to the point where they don’t even mean anything anymore. 16 is not even close to loli/shota age and most 16 year old anime characters don’t look loli/shota either. I honestly can’t wait for the day that these retards stop engaging in media that isn’t meant for them. Antis probably wouldn’t be in such high numbers if they were honest to themselves and stopped watching fotm shit that goes against their morals.
No.10366
>>10351>kill la kill pfpis she for real? lmao
Why it feels like it's projection everytime, recently i saw the drama too over my dress up darling, from people with overly sexualized anime in their pfp. Wild.
No.10367
>>10351One of them actually does have a good point, I hate how nobody in anime can be older than 17 at most because of the real life societal attitudes like how especially women in their 20's and older are considered undesirable post-wall christmas cake hags in Japan. That should be the talking point here, not screaming about how these very clearly adult looking and behaving fictional characters are arbitrarily aged 16 to troll people.
No.10371
>>10351I hate post-covid anime fans like you have no idea. These people only discovered anime during covid and likely never even saw the original PSG and are just larping about it because it's the current ((popular thing)).
After watching the episode, the "16 year old" thing is clearly a joke and a fucking reference to the movie it's supposed to be parodying (16 candles) because the plot of that movie revolved around a 16yo having her sister forget her birthday. But what would I ever expect of zoomers to even understand that?
This performative act honestly makes me sick, not even exclusive to this particular happening but the "I'M SO SORRY I DONT LIKE ICKY PEDO STUFF OKAY? IM NOT A BAD PERSON I HATE RACISTS, BIGOTS, PEDOS, TRANSPHOBES, ZIONISTS, PEDOS, I SWEAR IM NOT A BAD PERSON" is just so fucking pathetic. People having to do a complete moral 180º over something for even being slightly scandalous
No.10372
>>10351I haven't even watched the new season yet, and I still remember one of the first episodes (2nd episode?) of the first season being Panty and Stocking infiltrating a high school. I can't remember if Panty fucked the male high schoolers or not, but I think she did. Moralspergs are retarded.
No.10373
>was there when artist had -50 followers
>supported them and was happy to ask for requests (they had fun chatting with people about their ships and art)
>18 months later
>thousands of followers and massively popular
>going all in on being an anti
Bitch what the fuck.
No.10420
>>10301theres no worse time than now to try and be an artist or even just person in fandom, even fandom discords ive tried to join are always prefaced with no proshippers and its so pointless and exhausting, they want to know your socials too so they can comb through your follows and posts to see if youre a proshipper, its paranoid fuckery to the highest degree, i want to make fanart but im not sure i could handle the chronic social monitoring and also not being able to just draw whatever i want without backlash, its also shit because it would be extra hard to try and make online friends because id have have to comb through a bunch of shit to find people who are seemingly quiet on pro/anti stuff and then vet whether they are safe to talk to about shipping teen characters and writing/drawing them fucking, i also want to avoid stupid troon shit so ill have to avoid people that draw titchops and men with pussies, dear god just take me back to 2013
>>10373its the only "socially acceptable" option to be on social media these days, but usually the loudest ones are secretly into freak shit a lot of the time kek, it is a little hilarious though that i see antis following some eastern artists who i can tell are shotacons but because the characters arent human, stupid gendies cant tell, but to an oldfag its obvious the with ukes being drawn so small and cutesy kek
No.10450
Fits in the venting thread too but being into an anti-disapproved ship is exhausting me so much. 10+ years ago it was everywhere and you could talk about it. Now no one even mentions it if it's not to shit on it, not even acknowledging that the ship is why the characters even got a fandom to begin with. I hate not being able to post my art openly without fear. I hate seeing another western fujo and feeling like they're an enemy instead of a friend because I don't know what their ~fan politics~ are, unless I already know they ship something deemed problematic. I hate the garbage 'safe' ships my OTP get and the fact that they're fucking unavoidable if you see any other shipper into the characters. I hate that I feel a terrible sense of dread just seeing anyone in a random comment-section mention the characters I love.
I'm tired. And now because of all the bullshit with game platform censorship, I can't even escape to work on original BLshit that contains nsfw content, at least if I want to actually make any money off it. And none of all this crap going on seems to be making any difference in anti mentality, either. They're all just doubling down. Nothing save nuking all social media can save the internet, clearly.
No.10451
>>10450Brudick? Or is there another ship that got this exact treatment out there? I always feel terrible for the shippers this happens to. Especially when it happens retroactively or like super late in the series like what happened with detective Conan and the cousins revelation. But it’s crazy how brudick used to be super popular and now almost all Batman ships on those ao3 stats are platonic considering even mainstream media would joke about brudick. I’d say I hope this never happens to my otp, but my otp is already anti-disapproved and not super popular which is both a blessing and a curse.
No.10452
>>10450You gotta use that anger to motivate yourself to do more art, nonna. Nothing makes me happier than knowing that all these teenagers who seethe about my otp cannot do ANYTHING about all the amazing art it gets.
No.10453
>>10451There's sadly many ships like this out there now, basically any classic fandom with a juggernaut that was age gap, incest, shota etc, like Kuroshitsuji.
My fandom got taken over godawful platonic fic too and the platonic version of the ship has 2x as much as the ship version, but then again, the ship didn't even have a western fandom presence until recently, so at least the Japanese fic is much higher. (But the rate of posting has become slower than Ao3…)
No.10454
>>10450Nothing as serious, but I'm in two servers for a series and in one of them age gap relationships between adults is banned, so ships that are directly teased in canon with love confessions and requests for sex are frowned upon and banned from group events. I'm always juggling which server I talk and share found art on because I can't send the most popular ship in Asian fandom on one of them. Never mind that all the manipulative dubcon-if-IC ships
are allowed or that the younger guy is the top in all his ships. I'm a little scared of stating my age on there too, because I'm older than the character they won't let me ship with my fave and I feel like they might tell me I'm not allowed to like an anime teenager. It's okay for the 15-year-olds to like the 20-something characters and make yumeship art of themselves though.
I'm wondering if they'll change tune on one of these ships soon because one of the older characters they banned from group events got more screentime recently and people responded really positively to him. Before they just went "ew he's SO old" and occasionally said he was toxic but now they say how much they love his character and find him funny.
No.10455
>>10454>because I'm older than the character they won't let me ship with my fave and I feel like they might tell me I'm not allowed to like an anime teenager.I hate this shit so much. I've had similar issues with fandom groups because one of my favorite childhood ships are both teens.
No.10456
>>10450>>10453My first thought was Sebaciel but that wouldn't fit cause I can't think of any 'safe' ships Ciel or Sebastian would have that are actually popular. Unless I'm just unaware that Ciel/Finny and Sebastian/Grell is actually huge in the EN fandom.
No.10459
>>10456Undertaker/Seb has seen a resurgence recently alongside Seb/Grell. Dunno about Ciel.
No.10460
>>10456>>10459You're completely forbidden to like Ciel unless you like him in the god honoring way as a traumatized trans short boy that is more like "your son" (not a husbando),he's NOT a Shota and DON'T sexualize him.
No.10461
>>10460Are these people serious?
No.10462
unfortunately
No.10494
>>10493I know terminally online kids are a thing but this definitely feels like the type of shit I'd write if I was making an anti parody account.
No.10495
>>10493Bully x Victim and Boss x Employee is peak BL, especially when the employee is bullying and/or blackmailing the boss into submission. Some people have dino nuggie and choccy milky palates and it shows.
No.10498
>>10493This is so dumb I'm questioning if it's bait, but I'm inspired to write more rapist x victim versions of these anyways
No.10499
>>10493This is either peak satire or unrestrained mental illness.
No.10513
>>10494Yeah pretty sure that's a parody account, it's way too on the nose.
No.10514
>>10513It has to be. "Adultifying" lol. I'm surprised there's no bullet points on teacherxstudent or anything with an age gap.
No.10515
>>10514Samefag here. My god it's real. It's either ragebait or a terminally online kid.
No.10516
>>10515Oh no, any other terrible examples from the account?
No.10517
>>10493So romance in general is forbidden then? What's acceptable by that logic? Random people meeting for the first time as adults in the same age range but outside a professional or academic setting and in neutral circumstances, and they can't be friends who become lovers but they can't dislike each other at first either. Does that mean the only acceptable romance is the boring type of romcoms where the two main characters are the exact same age, the same race (to avoid power imbalance and white savior tropes or whatever), they need to have a crush on each other asap (but they also shouldn't have sex too soon because that's objectification and fetishization) and nothing happens until they finally confess and kiss and credits roll 5 seconds later because any sorts of stakes and conflicts is abusive and gross? These questions don't only apply to BL but in the case of BL they can just throw even more accusations at writers.