No.2521[View All]
Discuss the current state of modern fandoms with the anti/pro discourse.
>What is pro/anti discourse? Pro and anti refers to two stands in current fandom culture of what is acceptable or not to show in fiction. Anti is someone who is against anything that can be considered problematic (incest, age gaps, abuse,etc) and pro is someone who is in favour of anything problematic. But the labels can usually be something bigger, like discourse with headcanons, whitewashing, etc etc… The problematic things are just the more common ones.
>Where do these discourses usually take place?Usually on places like Twitter, Tumblr and Ao3, but they can also be seen in other places like Discord servers, TikTok and so on.
>Are there any reads about this?Here's a few, feel free to post more that you find!
https://note.com/orangiah/n/n437e262ce2ce (Japanese artist explaining the whole anti/pro thing)
https://www.themarysue.com/fandom-has-a-purity-culture-problem/ (general article talking of purity culture in fandom spaces)
https://www.cbr.com/cartoon-fandom-has-a-puritanism-problem/ (article about puritanism as well as a debunk in another article saying children's media has a porn problem)
Last thread
https://archive.is/9WPtF No.5885
>>5877Oh, that makes a lot of sense! To be honest, I've still put off reading Re:C (and I forgot Aoba's twin even existed lol, flaky memory of DMMD) so your explanation of the dynamic is really helpful, thank you!
No.5886
>>5884Since the game deals with
cloning shenanigans, DNA altercation, and advanced technology it wouldn't be too far fetched to have mpreg plotline. Or it could follow what the original game intended
and have MC impregnate an unnamed female cult member that gives birth to male!Rinne.
I wont elaborate too much on my thoughts of a genderbent euphoria since its NL and I dont think this is the appropriate thread to discuss non-BL topics, but I believe a BL version of Euphoria would work as a modified version of RN9 with more characters and options (which makes me frustrated in hindsight that clockup didnt have the resources to create a daichi route where you pick the ryona options whereas Euphoria got to have multiple cgs for multiple characters and different endings/routes.)
No.5897
>>5877>Ren as a LI being both Aoba’s other personality and inside his twin brother is incestious alreadyI always thought it was a cop-out that Aoba's brother never had a real route tbh. He was pretty.
No.6310
>>6308We used to be a proper country…
No.6311
>>6308>last semblance of normalcy in fandom was 8 years agoIt's over.
No.6314
>>6313my theory is that antis dislike something depicted by the ship that is totally unrelated to the reason why they say they are against it. to put it shortly, they come up with moral arguments, but the the ship makes them uncomfortable for other, way more personal reasons.
these reasons can be as simple as liking another ship in the franchise, or knowing someone they dislike who likes the ship, or the ship highlights a specific insecurity they have regarding their own appearance/personality/life in general etc.
saying "i hate this because it's morally wrong!" sounds way better than saying "i hate this because of dumb personal reasons!", so they run with it. they get brownie points for being on the right side of moral panic history, and can also pull more people on their hate train against everything they dislike.
it's the only explanation for how mental and hypocritical these people sound really
No.6316
>>6315>Why do these people even bother being fans if the source material/author is so obviously "problematic" from the get-go?that's what i don' get. yana is obviously into shota and she has drawn explicit one-shots of characters suspiciously similar to sebaciel. picrel is basically them.
besides, how the hell does an anti read the corset scene and not just drop the manga on the spot is beyond me. its obvious yana likes them that way.
No.6317
>>6316They're in full cope claiming she renounced her shotacon ways or something.
No.6318
>>6308The way people try to erase history and act like none of this happened and if it did it was sone sort of extremist minority is nuts, things used to be normal, fantasy was fantasy and it was fun. I feel old, the new generation really flipped onto a direction I can't understand.
No.6805
Antiship has become weirdly prominent in the hetalia fandom and it confuses me. You would think hetalia on its own would be too problematic for these people considering people saw it as racist just a few years ago but i guess its made a comeback.
I understand not liking direct incest like AmeCan or itacest but i see people sperging about how ships like spamano and UsUk are literally pedoincest and you arent allowed to ship them and i really dont see how you can even enjoy the show at that point. France spends half of his scenes sexually harassing other characters, Spamano is the most popular ship for both spain and romano and the show has no issues with it, not to mention you are in the country yaoi fanbase…i don’t get it.
I feel like a show like this should be free from annoying morality discourse. No issue with disliking ships but hearing people cry about “comship” in discussion of a show about shipping nations is odd.
No.6809
>>6805Strangely enough while anti shit is way more prevalent in fandoms of sugary shit every series will get them as long as the western fandom is just big enough.
The MC of my favorite series is/was literally a genociding dictator, half of the cast are war criminals and like half of the antagoists that people ship at least fascists and YET you have antis bitching about fans that ship space Hitler with space Himmler because Hitler was mean to Himmler once which makes it abusive and the fans predators or something.
No.6810
>>6809Are you a star wars fan or a gundam fan? Lol
No.6815
>>6805Hetalia having antis is proof our fujogod has abandoned us and we need to smex or faves again and glomp other shippers like it was mandated in the fujo sacred texts
No.6819
>>6817It's funny, when I read war criminal I knew, as a TF fan, you meant TF.
Skybound run makes it obvious but unless you read the comics, the cartoons don't really put any context to the insanity of the entire crew on either side. I mean, there's a whole episode of Arcee going into shock as she has Cliffjumper PTSD and Shockwave's outright terrifying. But the show downplays a lot of how actually awful the Decepticons are. The Autobots are far from innocent themselves but no one sees Bee as someone so efficient at his job that the leader of the enemy faction personally fucked him up to make a point.
I watched the Opbee discourse go down on twitter and it's insane to me how anyone would view Bee, especially Prime Bee as OP's son. Animated had the Human Error episodes which made him a kid, for some reason, but aside from that- I can't think of any continuity in which he's specifically supposed to be a child. Much less seeing OP as a parent since their species don't have concepts like mom or dad.
Starscream calls the scaplets he creates his children in cyberverse but that's all I can think of.
No.6820
>>6819This is so funny to me. Well, maybe it's because the comics (especially IDW) explicitly thematize ideologies, war crimes and the trauma the crimes have caused. The political speeches make the rest very obvious. Or the inability of the criminals to resocialize after the war has ended. In MtmtE you even have Megatron turning into the protag. I actually like it that someone had the guts to do redeem the villain and make you sympathize with him while simultaneously clarifying that he was indeed a fascist and genocider. Despite being an MC he even gets
executed for it at the very end, so it's not like his crimes were forgiven. It's crazy seeing some fans calling ships dangerous for a series that makes clear that almost everybody is fucked up beyond belief and if they weren't psychos (from the start) then the war eventually broke them and made them mentally ill anyway.
The best I have seen were discourses about Tarn/Overlord shipping. Not sure if you read it, but those two are easily some of the worst (albeit sexy) characters that exist. They are both mass murdering sadists and both are yandere homo for the same person (Megatron), of course are fans shipping them!
>Bee as OP's sonI hate hate that stuff as well and it happens in a lot of series. Everytime two adults have some vaguely brotherly- or mentor/protegee-like interaction someone out there headcanons them as brothers, respectively father and son and condemns shipping because of incest.
No.6943
>>6942it's the smugness for me.
notice how more often than not antis are some flavour of tranny– why? they live in fantasy land.
No.6945
>>6942they always think there some great justice warrior for "educating" people on what content they can and cant consume
its so incredibly annoying because its impossible to get through to those people
the concept of seperating fiction from reality is unknown to them, theyll compare people who consume loli/shota to actual pedophiles its actually insane
No.6946
>>6942It will never not be insane to me that people out there are actually making videos about proshipping discourse or whatever while showing their actual faces. Those are words and topics that should be limited to online debates done with made up names and anime profile pictures.
No.6948
>>6942I can't stop staring at her hideous overalls
No.6951
>>6950Antis often are gendies but proships are also usually gendies or TRAs
No.6952
>>6951I don't like either side and this is one of the reasons. I think antis are signficantly more obnoxious though, especially the ones who are in their 20s and still pulling that shit.
No.6954
I hate that I might be associated with antis because I am a westerner too. I don't even have any sort of connection to America where most of these fuckers are coming from.
>>6942Asians always make the best commentaries about shit like this.
No.7587
>>7586I'm so tired of assholes on the internet making up terms.
No.7589
>>7586Lightshipper and darkshipper? Are we jedi now?
No.7590
>>7586I guess I am glad I didn't have to interact with a western fandom the last decade everything I learn about them looks and sounds like a damn kindergarden. I would be embarrassed just being associated with such people. Not sure why but they never retweet my fanart even if it casually gets popular and has the big people retweeting it. It's for the better, but I wonder if they instinctively keep their distance from me.
Or they are trapped on instagram and other places I refuse to use. Ir maybe ignore art that isn't trans shit and calart style.
No.7591
>>7586I'm getting too old for this shit…
No.7595
>>7586I wish I could engage in this hobby without ever encountered this type of sperg or the tranny spergs or the OOC feminization kink fuckers. Seeing cringe like that is radicalising me.
No.7598
>>7597This is a minor, right? Please tell me it's someone that's under 15.
Also, why the fuck are they obsessed with what is 'legal' or 'illegal'? shipping isn't fucking illegal. Also, what is extremely fucking funny is that immortal/mortal still has an 'age gap' therefore problematic.
No.7599
>>7597I'm honestly glad I never came across any of these terms or discourses, I guess I'm getting old. Best thing these kids could do for themselves is stop debating these nonsensical shipping labels and do whatever they want with their friends. It is funny that they use legality as a baseline for acceptable "complicated" ships like there's laws out there regulating relationships between humans and vampires.
No.7601
>>7597Shit like this is why I left dumblr ages ago
>>7599Same. I feel like a boomer since tiktok became relevant. I completely lost touch with internet "culture" since the majority of humanity didn't just start using websites I will never touch but got so many that their memes and culture started to bleed into every other corner of the net.
I guess the only safe place is Japanese twitter and maybe the North Korean internet at this point. I stick to the first.
No.7604
>>7597>>7596Seeing this makes me feel blessed that I don't engage in western fandom spaces. What the hell is going on…
No.7625
>>7597Reading this made me realize how my baby boomer father felt when I wouldn't shut the fuck up about Pokemon as a little kid in 2000.
No.7627
>>7624I didn't even know you could write sentences on titcock. I never had any interest in that site and the fact that everything has to be video based is so fucking stupid IMO.
It reminds me of instasgram where people post crappy images with fat white font on black background to make a textposts instead of just using a place that allows text to post their thoughts.
No.7628
>>7627So you hate youtube then?
No.7639
>>7628I use it to find niche music. The thing is that people don't use yt exclusively, they don't make a short video to say a single sentence or some shit which is stupid. They either post it as comment I assume or go somewhere else.
That said I never cared about reviews and opinion videos since I couldn't care less what generic retards have to say about everything, but it's good for music and amateur cartoons IMO. Something you cannot do with tiktok since it's short-video shit