No.2521[View All]
Discuss the current state of modern fandoms with the anti/pro discourse.
>What is pro/anti discourse? Pro and anti refers to two stands in current fandom culture of what is acceptable or not to show in fiction. Anti is someone who is against anything that can be considered problematic (incest, age gaps, abuse,etc) and pro is someone who is in favour of anything problematic. But the labels can usually be something bigger, like discourse with headcanons, whitewashing, etc etc… The problematic things are just the more common ones.
>Where do these discourses usually take place?Usually on places like Twitter, Tumblr and Ao3, but they can also be seen in other places like Discord servers, TikTok and so on.
>Are there any reads about this?Here's a few, feel free to post more that you find!
https://note.com/orangiah/n/n437e262ce2ce (Japanese artist explaining the whole anti/pro thing)
https://www.themarysue.com/fandom-has-a-purity-culture-problem/ (general article talking of purity culture in fandom spaces)
https://www.cbr.com/cartoon-fandom-has-a-puritanism-problem/ (article about puritanism as well as a debunk in another article saying children's media has a porn problem)
Last thread
https://archive.is/9WPtF No.10420
>>10301theres no worse time than now to try and be an artist or even just person in fandom, even fandom discords ive tried to join are always prefaced with no proshippers and its so pointless and exhausting, they want to know your socials too so they can comb through your follows and posts to see if youre a proshipper, its paranoid fuckery to the highest degree, i want to make fanart but im not sure i could handle the chronic social monitoring and also not being able to just draw whatever i want without backlash, its also shit because it would be extra hard to try and make online friends because id have have to comb through a bunch of shit to find people who are seemingly quiet on pro/anti stuff and then vet whether they are safe to talk to about shipping teen characters and writing/drawing them fucking, i also want to avoid stupid troon shit so ill have to avoid people that draw titchops and men with pussies, dear god just take me back to 2013
>>10373its the only "socially acceptable" option to be on social media these days, but usually the loudest ones are secretly into freak shit a lot of the time kek, it is a little hilarious though that i see antis following some eastern artists who i can tell are shotacons but because the characters arent human, stupid gendies cant tell, but to an oldfag its obvious the with ukes being drawn so small and cutesy kek
No.10450
Fits in the venting thread too but being into an anti-disapproved ship is exhausting me so much. 10+ years ago it was everywhere and you could talk about it. Now no one even mentions it if it's not to shit on it, not even acknowledging that the ship is why the characters even got a fandom to begin with. I hate not being able to post my art openly without fear. I hate seeing another western fujo and feeling like they're an enemy instead of a friend because I don't know what their ~fan politics~ are, unless I already know they ship something deemed problematic. I hate the garbage 'safe' ships my OTP get and the fact that they're fucking unavoidable if you see any other shipper into the characters. I hate that I feel a terrible sense of dread just seeing anyone in a random comment-section mention the characters I love.
I'm tired. And now because of all the bullshit with game platform censorship, I can't even escape to work on original BLshit that contains nsfw content, at least if I want to actually make any money off it. And none of all this crap going on seems to be making any difference in anti mentality, either. They're all just doubling down. Nothing save nuking all social media can save the internet, clearly.
No.10451
>>10450Brudick? Or is there another ship that got this exact treatment out there? I always feel terrible for the shippers this happens to. Especially when it happens retroactively or like super late in the series like what happened with detective Conan and the cousins revelation. But it’s crazy how brudick used to be super popular and now almost all Batman ships on those ao3 stats are platonic considering even mainstream media would joke about brudick. I’d say I hope this never happens to my otp, but my otp is already anti-disapproved and not super popular which is both a blessing and a curse.
No.10452
>>10450You gotta use that anger to motivate yourself to do more art, nonna. Nothing makes me happier than knowing that all these teenagers who seethe about my otp cannot do ANYTHING about all the amazing art it gets.
No.10453
>>10451There's sadly many ships like this out there now, basically any classic fandom with a juggernaut that was age gap, incest, shota etc, like Kuroshitsuji.
My fandom got taken over godawful platonic fic too and the platonic version of the ship has 2x as much as the ship version, but then again, the ship didn't even have a western fandom presence until recently, so at least the Japanese fic is much higher. (But the rate of posting has become slower than Ao3…)
No.10454
>>10450Nothing as serious, but I'm in two servers for a series and in one of them age gap relationships between adults is banned, so ships that are directly teased in canon with love confessions and requests for sex are frowned upon and banned from group events. I'm always juggling which server I talk and share found art on because I can't send the most popular ship in Asian fandom on one of them. Never mind that all the manipulative dubcon-if-IC ships
are allowed or that the younger guy is the top in all his ships. I'm a little scared of stating my age on there too, because I'm older than the character they won't let me ship with my fave and I feel like they might tell me I'm not allowed to like an anime teenager. It's okay for the 15-year-olds to like the 20-something characters and make yumeship art of themselves though.
I'm wondering if they'll change tune on one of these ships soon because one of the older characters they banned from group events got more screentime recently and people responded really positively to him. Before they just went "ew he's SO old" and occasionally said he was toxic but now they say how much they love his character and find him funny.
No.10455
>>10454>because I'm older than the character they won't let me ship with my fave and I feel like they might tell me I'm not allowed to like an anime teenager.I hate this shit so much. I've had similar issues with fandom groups because one of my favorite childhood ships are both teens.
No.10456
>>10450>>10453My first thought was Sebaciel but that wouldn't fit cause I can't think of any 'safe' ships Ciel or Sebastian would have that are actually popular. Unless I'm just unaware that Ciel/Finny and Sebastian/Grell is actually huge in the EN fandom.
No.10459
>>10456Undertaker/Seb has seen a resurgence recently alongside Seb/Grell. Dunno about Ciel.
No.10460
>>10456>>10459You're completely forbidden to like Ciel unless you like him in the god honoring way as a traumatized trans short boy that is more like "your son" (not a husbando),he's NOT a Shota and DON'T sexualize him.
No.10461
>>10460Are these people serious?
No.10462
unfortunately
No.10494
>>10493I know terminally online kids are a thing but this definitely feels like the type of shit I'd write if I was making an anti parody account.
No.10495
>>10493Bully x Victim and Boss x Employee is peak BL, especially when the employee is bullying and/or blackmailing the boss into submission. Some people have dino nuggie and choccy milky palates and it shows.
No.10498
>>10493This is so dumb I'm questioning if it's bait, but I'm inspired to write more rapist x victim versions of these anyways
No.10499
>>10493This is either peak satire or unrestrained mental illness.
No.10513
>>10494Yeah pretty sure that's a parody account, it's way too on the nose.
No.10514
>>10513It has to be. "Adultifying" lol. I'm surprised there's no bullet points on teacherxstudent or anything with an age gap.
No.10515
>>10514Samefag here. My god it's real. It's either ragebait or a terminally online kid.
No.10516
>>10515Oh no, any other terrible examples from the account?
No.10517
>>10493So romance in general is forbidden then? What's acceptable by that logic? Random people meeting for the first time as adults in the same age range but outside a professional or academic setting and in neutral circumstances, and they can't be friends who become lovers but they can't dislike each other at first either. Does that mean the only acceptable romance is the boring type of romcoms where the two main characters are the exact same age, the same race (to avoid power imbalance and white savior tropes or whatever), they need to have a crush on each other asap (but they also shouldn't have sex too soon because that's objectification and fetishization) and nothing happens until they finally confess and kiss and credits roll 5 seconds later because any sorts of stakes and conflicts is abusive and gross? These questions don't only apply to BL but in the case of BL they can just throw even more accusations at writers.
No.10549
>>10547We did it. We became the ships themselves. We are all professional ships.
No.10550
>>10547ntayrt but i’m entranced by whatever the fuck this is. ironic or not it’s a car crash i can’t look away from and i’ll take screenshots of anything thread-relevant.
No.10552
>>1054710 years ago kids with this same artstyle were making fnaf fanart on deviantart. Now it came to this bullshit.
No.10555
>>10547there's no way this isn't some kind of troll, even antis aren't retarded enough to genuinely believe this
No.10556
>>10547Damn her neck is long as fuck
No.10560
>>10493>>10547this is so obviously bait you autists
No.10593
>>10591I find both are insufferable and both are likely to make their stance their personality. That being said I have very low empathy for antis
No.10594
>>10591Being an anti is the norm for 2025 fandom outside of AO3. Liking anything problematic means dealing with annoying people. Proshippers have to play defense since they aren't the default.
I hate antis but it's also annoying when someone makes being edgy their entire personality. Just talk about the yaoi itself ffs.
No.10599
>>10594>Being an anti is the norm for 2025 fandom outside of AO3It's the norm on social media but I see more and more pushback outside there.
No.10819
>>2682And who would have guessed: The guy who claimed Vee was a rapist (Kyle A. Carrozza)for drawings had actual cp in his hard drive
No.10853
>>10594I hate how proship became a thing because a lot of times people call things "proship" that would never have been a big deal. Like they assume all "characters met when they had an age gap in the past but now they're both adults" is "proship" which means no normal people in the West ship it, even if it might be popular in Asian fandom and get all kinds of art. It's like once something is called "proship" it can't be treated like a regular ship and only be edgy even if in the canon that's not the only thing it has going for it.
It does seem like antis have won in polarizing fandom. Everything is about morality and talking about how bad your blorbos are or making disclaimers about how you don't condone something in real life and less about understanding that we're all adults who shouldn't need our hands held about fiction.
No.11393
>>6308why did the normies have to infest anime/manga…..
No.12067
>>12065Brb, going to sexually exploit Astarion and ship him with his master
No.12068
>>12065So I guess only the isekai waifus who love being sex slaves like Raphtalia are fine to sexualize because the author made them consent…? Or is it disrespectful to lewd them because you are not MC-kun?
No.12069
>>12068I just talked to Astarion on the phone. He said that he secretly loves being sexually abused and tortured, so it's a-okay.
No.12071
>>12065Not them saying this about ASTARION of all characters, the designated yume bait, the y/n reader insert favorite, the female romance character that everyone was thirsting on before even release kek
Also you are a BG3 fan, the game that lets you fuck anything and anyone?
No.12072
>>12065I always have a theory that whenever someone says the most outlandish shit about a character and calls themselves "biggest (character) understander" they are always self-inserting.
And well, what do we have here?
When will the self-insert "every character I like is me" epidemic end?
No.12203
The THATS A CHILD crowd boggles me, can they at least fuck off from anime then?
No.12214
>>12203It's even more annoying when they don't levy the same argument against men who do the same exact shit and much, much worse than most women do, barring a select deeply unwell, porn-rotted ones. Actually, these critics should be calling out the entirety of the Japanese animanga industry for revolving most of their stories around teenagers and school-life. Be an equal hater, is all I am saying
No.12216
>>12214Most of that crowd leans toward self-inserting (big surprise) with husbandos from Japanese vidja too. Everyone in the animanga / weeb industry caters to otaku which means nearly every creator or person in the industry tolerates lewding underage characters including lolisho, at best. It's very odd that you can consume a video game that lewds characters like that for fans and then yell at fans who do the same thing. And it's always towards women like you said. Please be morally consistent and stick with live-action western sitcoms.