/bl/ - General BL

I only played the original game and I'm a Giulio/Gian enjoyer but I'm genuinely curious about what sort of character arc Bakshi could have. I'm sure I'll get to play bad egg one day.

Wow, almost all the fan art I see of LuckyDog1 looks much better than the actual game …

>>6792
>If anything I always got the impression Tennenouji was IvaGian biased
Really? In the original game his bad end is betraying the mafia and killing everybody in the room, Gian included, meaning he only wanted somebody to fuck, no deeper feelings involved. And his best end has a CG of Gian being bald, old & dying in hospital - very trollish.

>I just supposed the reason he writes so much Bad Egg stuff
He does? Where can I read it?

>>6794
HIDOI
It's not even bad by VN standards of that era.

>>6793
>I'm sure I'll get to play bad egg one day
If MangaGamer doesn't license it, you can get it from DLsite. They love gaijin money.

>I only played the original game and I'm a Giulio/Gian enjoyer
Funny that - Giulio was my fave in LD1 too, but I absolutely hated his guts in LD1+badegg. Impressive, the writing department deserves a standing ovation for not going the easy route of pandering and safe fanservice.

>>6797
Really surprised to hear that was your impression of Ivan's route. Ivan's a tsundere so you gotta kinda read between the lines, but even in his bad end, he doesn't actually kill Gian. Gian dies from stray bullets hitting him, but when Ivan turns the gun to him directly, he can't bring himself to pull the trigger. And in his good ending he never marries (despite having been established to be popular with women) and dies happily being called to by Gian in the afterlife. It's romantic in a bittersweet kind of way. It emphasizes that their bond will last for all eternity, surpassing the limits of even life itself. Plus, in multiple short stories that take place after the game itself, it's made clear that they're lovers. Gian even says he loves Ivan multiple times, and though Ivan is too tsun to say it back, you can tell he feels the same way.

Also surprised you never delved into the post-game BakGian stuff. Have you listened to the drama CDs at least? They're top tier. Suganuma has a Note page he semi-regularly updates with Lucky Dog stories. You can learn a lot about Bakshi's past and Bad Egg lore through them. One of them even details Bakshi and Gian's time in Bowick village the actual game skipped over, sex included, naturally. I really liked it because you can see a point in their relationship where they're still kind of awkward and figuring things out. If you Google Suganuma's name plus Note you should be able to find them. There's also physical only short stories that're kind of a pain in the ass to get at times but well worth reading. If you don't feel like scouring Mercari for them there's this Tumblr blog called rakido1 that's slowly but surely uploading all the physical only Lucky Dog stories.

In general I'd recommend anyone here who's played Lucky Dog 1 buy the two Secret Diary games and continue from there. The original game is really just where the story begins.

>>6799
>Have you listened to the drama CDs at least?
Already bought!

>Suganuma has a Note page he semi-regularly updates with Lucky Dog stories.
Thanks! Some of them are paid content, but my foreigner money was accepted! You never know with Japanese sites…

>One of them even details Bakshi and Gian's time in Bowick village the actual game skipped over, sex included, naturally.
Hehehe, which one? In my headcanon Bakshi was in the Pretending To Be Retarded mode just for the kicks and the whole ‘helping at the farm’ thing was a black humour spoof of ‘Of Mice and Men’. But with no female victims and lots of homo sex. ✩ ヮ ✩

>There's also physical only short stories that're kind of a pain in the ass to get at times but well worth reading. If you don't feel like scouring Mercari for them there's this Tumblr blog called rakido1 that's slowly but surely uploading all the physical only Lucky Dog stories.
I wish there was a list of all official content…

>Really surprised to hear that was your impression of Ivan's route.
I don’t know about the other material - I’m basing my impression on the two games only. Siccing his goons onto the captains (when it’s the old farts on the board of directors who want him 6 feet under while the captains simply tried to damage control) is unreasonably spiteful, short-sighted behaviour - not really a flattering portrayal. But it’s the bad end, so anything goes, I guess.

Another thing that makes me think the creators don’t care for Ivan much is ||| RANT INCOMING ||| his extra story in +badegg – it’s plain bad and lazily-written as compared to the other 3. I wondered how upsetting it must have been for Ivan fans when I read it – it’s really indefensible.

Ivan’s afterstory isn’t even about Ivan and doesn’t elaborate on what’s in store for Daivan/CR5 going forward or fill in gaps from LD1 or +badegg. The other extras delve into the captains’ pasts or give them closure (Luchino and Giulio), bring back characters that appeared before and expand on what they are up to, move the story forward and explore what was hinted at before (the government cracking down on mafias/gangs and how it affects Daivan and CR5, collaboration with other mafia groups and the associated risk, Don Bondone’s fate and fuckery finally coming to an end). Luchino, Giulio and Bernardo are intertwined with the plots of their respective afterstories – there would be no tales to tell without them being present. Unlike with Ivan, whose only role in his own extra is that of a bystander and the main plot doesn’t involve him - he could be removed entirely, without affecting the script beyond minor corrections.

tbc

>>6803

part 2

And that plot is hella enraging too. It’s an inconsequential side story about some random schizo with no relation to the events of either LD1 or LD1+badegg going on a killing spree because… the current CR5 doesn’t live up to his standards and he’s done with life? He whacks some board members in revenge, executes some others cause… they were reasonable and never sought revenge? Plus random policemen for being in the way thus causing trouble for Gian and undermining his position. That schmuck wasn’t even well-written or entertaining as a character. I’d take 5 Normans over him any day – at least HIS melties were funny and worthy of memes. You know what, the schizo is actually the most evil character of this franchise - literally at every step he purposefully bites the hands that fed him. Yet doesn’t get his comeuppance, but a happy end – it’s very frustrating. No other character (even bastards like Norman, Bondone, Owen, Honus) does crap like repaying his chief benefactor who saved his (now ex-)wife and daughter from a life of destitution/prostitution with trying to murder said benefactor’s only surviving family member or shamelessly mooching off boss Gian’s generosity only to betray him later.

It’s OOC for Gian to offer honourable treatment to that nutter after the shit he’s pulled, both on the organisational (endangering Gian’s position and reputation) and personal (Cavalli, Rosalia) level. Please. Gian killed people for less, at times with wanton glee, and never batted an eye. He should have sent for a squad to mince the rabid fucker with Maxims without hesitation AND THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN AN ACT OF MERCY ON HIS PART. Instead he agrees to some silly duel with the guy as if whims of washed-up trash deserved to be humoured and Gian gracing the traitor scumbag with his presence was a reasonable request.

And Ivan lets him. It’s so OOC for him too – normally he wouldn’t let Gian do something as reckless without a backup plan involving his underlings getting their hands dirty, he has a soft spot for Rosalia and I can see him tearing limb from limb any bleeder that would try to harm her, not to mention that he is impulsive by nature and would act before thinking.

So what kind of conclusion/message were they going at here? That it’s best to proactively make problematic people within your organisation swim with the fishes at the earliest opportunity, just in case they may cause trouble in the future? Violate omerta and try to murder children to get a happy end?

||| RANT OVER |||

>>6805
The BakGian story I mentioned is called Day Laborer Days! Though you won't much understand the ending unless you read Night of the Galaxy Way in Secret Diary L, so I recommend reading that first. If you do some digging in Japanese you can find lists of various physical story releases, though none of them seem to be entirely up to date.

A central theme in Ivan's route is that Gian is the only thing keeping him tethered to the organization, the only one who believes in him until the others follow suit and come around. He thinks they'll try and whack him at any moment - it's why he avoids eating the hotel food. When Gian abandons him, he loses all hope and his fight or flight kicks in… he figures he'll whack them before they whack him.

Bakshi isn't exactly a moral paragon either. Despite having known Ethan, Max and Lilly for so long and been taken in by them when at his lowest he was ready to up and abandon them the moment Gian seemed to consider leaving the gang life behind. Plus, he straight up uses Max at the climax, assuming him dead. Now Bakshi no doubt cares about them, but that's the kind of guy he is. His love for Gian eclipses everything else. He's also plainly racist and resentful towards Teshikaga… though Teshikaga's kind of a creep, so I can't much fault him for that.
(1/2)

>>6805
>>6806
Well, if you didn't like Ivan you didn't like him. I won't tell you you should. It's just funny because most Bakshi fans actually had Ivan as their first favorite… and though it manifests in different ways, they're both the "bad boys that're secret softies" types. You'll notice a lot of BakGian fans also draw IvaGian for that reason. It's a known thing.

I also won't deny that Ivan's afterstory was the weakest. It was a shame as a fan. I think there's a simple reason for that though: his story was already complete in the original game. I think the writers (not just Suganuma, but Jinnai who wrote his afterstory as well) didn't have much of an idea of what to do with him post-game. Whereas the other CHANCE drama CDs tend to be very plot focused, Ivan's drama CDs are cutesy light fluff. Now I was happy to see that as a fan - I listened to them for more ship content after all - but it does make you think. In comparison we have Luchino and Giulio, who are largely considered to have the weakest routes in the original game which left a lot of questions unanswered, and they're given the most elaborate and satisfying afterstories. They simply had more ideas to work with, methinks. I also think Jinnai having written Ivan's afterstory instead of Suganuma explains the characterization… Jinnai writes Ivan a little differently. You can really tell the difference in the H scenes. I don't think Suganuma's ever written Ivan prepping Gian with his fingers, lol. At the very least the ending gives Ivan dignity and confirms he reunites with Gian in the afterlife.

Suganuma went on record as to say Ivan's route was the easiest for him to write (and he injected a ton of his personal hobbies into Ivan's character, such as his love of guns and cars and books) so I can say with confidence it's definitely not a case of Ivan being disliked by the staff. Plus, like I said, in the 2023 birthday event Ivan is ultimately the only one to kiss Gian on the lips. He definitely has some shooters on staff.
(2/2)

>Brother/Brother Romance tag on vndb is only one page long
This is a tragedy.

>>6808
>>6806
>The BakGian story I mentioned is called Day Laborer Days! Though you won't much understand the ending unless you read Night of the Galaxy Way in Secret Diary L, so I recommend reading that first.
Thank you! ✧ᗜ✧

>Bakshi isn't exactly a moral paragon either. Despite having known Ethan, Max and Lilly for so long and been taken in by them when at his lowest he was ready to up and abandon them the moment Gian seemed to consider leaving the gang life behind.
This is what makes him so top-tier. The right priorities. Or so the Bible says. ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother…’ (♡ ω ♡ )

>Plus, he straight up uses Max at the climax
A soldier’s duty.

>He's also plainly racist and resentful towards Teshikaga…
That was 4chan-tier racist banter – not that different from calling others Amerifats, Yuropoors, frogeaters, krauts, potatoes, macaronis, dogeaters, beaners. All fun and games. I don’t think he was resentful at any point (that Food Wars cooking sequence was more like shounen manga rivalry) - riling people up is simply his hobby. He gets along well with Teshikaga when it comes to playing slaughterhouse – they definitely bonded over that mutual interest of theirs during the followers’ meeting. ￣◡￣

I actually love Teshikaga as a character. He’s the furthest from your run-of-the-mill token-Japanese-for-relatability-purposes. What he stands for is atypical for otaku media and his worldview is…complex (theist communism has never been tried before, at least on a large scale).

>Well, if you didn't like Ivan you didn't like him. I won't tell you you should. It's just funny because most Bakshi fans actually had Ivan as their first favorite… and though it manifests in different ways, they're both the "bad boys that're secret softies" types.
He just doesn’t have the right combo of qualities to be my cup of tea. He makes for great bullying material though and his overreactions are funny.

To be fair, I don’t think being a career criminal is the right lifestyle choice for Ivan – he doesn’t seem to enjoy it much, from role-playing a host to the madams of his brothels (emotional labour is such a chore ᗒᗜᗕ) to becoming paranoid about getting snuffed. Unlike Bakshi – who is almost always having a blast doing gangsterism (that last attached image applies). Speaking of I Have A Shotgun In My Pants Bakshi, I love the calculated finesse in the way he shittalks and taunts his enemies with vulgar speech to make his targets lose it. His verbal attacks are as destructive as his physical ones. He should be writing a 1001 Ways to Fuck with People column for a local rag or something similar.

>>6808
>>6806
>A central theme in Ivan's route is that Gian is the only thing keeping him tethered to the organization, the only one who believes in him until the others follow suit and come around. He thinks they'll try and whack him at any moment - it's why he avoids eating the hotel food. When Gian abandons him, he loses all hope and his fight or flight kicks in… he figures he'll whack them before they whack him.
I’m sure he’d have been able to find a way out, had he not been such a baka ┐ (￣△￣)┌

>I also won't deny that Ivan's afterstory was the weakest. It was a shame as a fan.
Ivan’s afterstory being subpar is grating cause there is so much contrast in quality – the other extras are just this good. I don’t like ‘still grieving over my dead wife/girlfriend’ plots in general, and especially in BL, but Luchino’s extra was so well-done and him reading Anne of Green Gables made me tear up – so well written. Gian’s other boyfriends do exciting stuff in their afterstories - run the show, deal with the city cops, outmanoeuvre other mobsters (I especially liked Bernardo’s KEIKAKUDOORI) etc. That ridiculous plane vs car battle was something straight out of Jojo’s Bizarre Adventure – the kind of stuff I’ve signed up for. Meanwhile Ivan…hangs around a bar for retirees and helps Gian curry favour with some geriatric blob. Wow, I’m getting an adrenaline rush. Bernardo has more of a presence in his extra, despite spending half of its runtime in jail, than Ivan in his.

> I think there's a simple reason for that though: his story was already complete in the original game. I think the writers (not just Suganuma, but Jinnai who wrote his afterstory as well) didn't have much of an idea of what to do with him post-game.
There is certainly lots that can still be done with his character: the entire double heritage thing and how advancement in the organisation is blocked for half-Italians and non-Italian ethnicities. The consequences of that policy have been touched upon in +badegg, but it’s something that could be developed further. It’s especially urgent since the US government has doubled their efforts in eradicating organised crime and will make plea deals with mobsters to incriminate the bosses. Discrimination in career prospects is just going to produce more traitors, like a self-fulfilling prophecy. Isn’t it the perfect time for Gian and Ivan to poach disgruntled ‘talent’ from other mafias/gangs, promising them equal opportunities? Boy, would it cause consternation among other mafia groups and make them mad.

Has anyone played this ?

https://mangagamer.org/lesson/
This just got announced.
>On a chilly, rainy night in early spring, Kento heads home on his bike. Just six months ago he was released from his second stint in juvenile detention, but he, now twenty, had finally settled into his job.

"Mess up again, and it won't just be juvie next time."

The warning flits through Kento's mind just moments before colliding violently with a car. He blacks out, seriously injured.

Upon regaining consciousness in the hospital, Kento finds himself face-to-face with the driver of the car: Takafumi. Kento has no one he can rely on during his recovery, so Takafumi suggests they live together while Kento recovers from his injuries. Seeing a man who didn't judge him for his naivety and clumsy speech, Kento begins to open up to Takafumi and accepts his offer.

From that day on, the pair become closer than they could ever imagine.

>>6835
Now that MG has exhausted parade's catalogue, I wonder what games they will be licensing next? Hopefully they already have agreements with more companies.

>>6836
Haiiro no Arcadia hopefully (there are better unTL BL than this but I reckon this would be the most realistic choice for a translation).

>>6835
Why is parade addicted to these bland, bara-tier designs?

>>6836
Finally! Now I have to force myself to finish NTY and I'll have read all of Parade's works.

>>6839
Because they want to also market to gay men, I’d argue NTY is more of a barage than a BLge.

>>6843
Are dead fishes in bed that appealing to gay dudes tho ?

>>6844
They’re not but for whatever reason parade decided that 3 of the 4 should be

>>6843
Are gay men really that much more of a consistent audience when it comes to buying VNs? I can't imagine it would be worth alienating fujos into bishies (who make up most fujos) for a handful of gay men, unless gays in general are desperate for new barages.

>>6842
>>6839
I've been meaning to read my for ages but I just don't find any of the designs appealing plus the way all the characters are apparently not into the MC at all is rather unappealing, I'm one for the rare fujos that actually likes it when the LIs are gay and don't just make a sort of exception for the mc

>>6848
Furry gay vns specifically seem to be a huge niche at least, for some reason…

>>6839
>>6847
I think they go for 'realism' in their games.

>>6848
I think it comes from writing what you know partially? Their clockup stuff is known for being super degen stuff even by visual novel standards so I guess they assumed fujos wouldn't touch a game made by their subsidiary and decided to market to gay guys instead
As for if gay guys buy games, it's a big enough demographic that I can see it warranting some visual novels and Parade games are clearly suuuper cheap to make (barely any CGs, a lot of the CGs are just chibis, first time voice actors, games on the shorter end, etc)
>>6852
I don't think there's a single barafag who isn't a furry on the side, furry girls in Japan are a SUPER niche but in bara communities they're basically the default next to pig face muscle fat guys.

>>6854
> they're basically the default next to pig face muscle fat guys.
Genuinely what causes men to have the shittiest taste in the world? Even straight men have horrendous taste in women.

>>6855
>>6854
I think it's just a fad. All those bara furry games are quite recent - you couldn't find this stuff 10-15 years ago. Maybe it's the consequence of furries becoming (sort of) mainstream and inviting themselves into every fan space.

>>6855
The way I think it happened was
>BL, shoujo and moeblob stuff have similar enough art styles
>So gay moids were like "NONE OF THIS SISSY SHIT WE'RE GONNA DRAW EVERYONE WITH TINY EYES, FAT NOSES, AND OBESE MUSLCEY BODIES"
Bara dudes look like a different species when you put them next to other manga charaters.

>>6856
Nonna…NTY came out in 2013…

>>6836
The first and last pics kinda sell me on these ugly bland designs if they have some gap moe going on, but Parade never takes characters in the direction I would personally like
Maybe I should go back and finish Lkyt. but I dropped it after the major H-scene with the prince since I assumed that was the peak, it was kinda boring otherwise

>>6856
Indie game dev was less accessible in the past, now it's easier than ever to throw shit together on Ren'py and platforms like itch made it easy for niche free games to thrive, at least before visa and mastercard shit the bed over nsfw games.
Also if you were a kid when Incineroar released then you're an adult now I guess…

>>6856
Those games always existed. I remember Morenatsu being a hot topic for a long time when it was in development. Furries tend to be the largest demographic that puts their money where their mouth is (for better or for worse) and have been for decades. It's less about inviting themselves in, and more that fandom spaces have been homogenized across a few websites instead of more private communities.

>>6839
>>6836
Neither of these designs really feel particularly bara to me beyond being a bit more broad than the usual bishie. That kind of style is popular in a lot of Korean BL right now anyway.

>>6856
bara has always been furry adjacent, even 20 years ago, all muscular male fanart always tipped into the furfag shit

Do y'all enjoy NTR in BL VNs ?

>>6869
It can be pretty funny

>>6836
Galtia have some really hot designs but I've heard that game's not that good.

>>6836
I hate how the male character's faces are drawn in Parade's artstyle, the stupid wide square jaws and squished facial features is so ugly. I'm trying to play LKYT and it annoys me how I would find most of the LIs attractive if the artstyle was different.

What's the best Western BL VN în your opinion ?

>>6884
Maybe Camp Buddy, not a lot of competition.

>>6884
The Komahina fanfiction VNs by yndr4hope

I used to watch a lot of parody anime edits (like the one linked) on Niconico years ago - I didn't know fans made them for BL VNs as well. I'm finding more of this content and laughing my ass off.
Can you recommend me some really funny/lolsorandumb ones for BL games specifically?

>>6885
We're cooked if that's the best Western has to offer.

Do you think developers screwed themselves over in the past with hiring big name seiyuu? Now the licensing fees for some games (like Shingakkou) are so high no outside company can afford them, thus limiting the income stream. I don't think those 'big names' in anime dubbing are even any better than the guys who mostly voice VN/BL CD.

>>6922
It's rare to find EVNs that solely fall into BL or otome categories because most have pronoun selection, but if you include those ones there's probably some which are decent. I remember seeing some with nice art, at least, but no idea how good the stories actually are.

>>6922
What do you consider the best then? Adastra is also good but that's furfag shit so I don't consider it BL
I struggle to even name full-length western VNs period, most of the big ones we get are shitty self-aware parody games like Date Everything or games I wouldn't consider romance like VA-11 Hall-A. We just don't have that scene on a big budget level.

>>6925
What's a good looking one you saw? I can deal with a faceless MC.

>>6923
I don't think I've every cared about the VA on a game so if that's what's holding back a rerelease of a title I'd be pretty angry.

>>6927
What about Coming Out on Top ? Or is that too bara to count as BL ? (But then wouldn't Camp Buddy be as well ?)

>>6928
Haven't heard of this, is it actually good? Definitely looks bara but I can deal with it if the story/characters are likeable. As to Camp Buddy, I've said before in another thread that I find it's target audience confusing, it feels like it's trying to appeal to both the yaoi and bara crowd.

>>6929
Plot's mostly college slice of life but I'd rate it higher than Camp Buddy. It also has a crazy bestiality ending where the protagonist fucks his fish and then apparently gets anal vore'd by it which I definitely didn't appear in a Western BL VN.

Now I'm being reminded that back when I still read the Starfighter webcomic I had been meaning to buy the visual novel too because I heard good things about it but I never got around to doing it.