/ffs/ - Fujo Fandom Sperging

You are correct Nonna, most fujos do not hate female charcters. I've even read BL works with amazing female charcters that your basic most popular anime couldn't compete with! Pic related of female charcter I liked form a BL, even though she appears for like 4 or so pages.
As for the fujo vs yumejo discourse, a lot of fujos are yumjos and vice versa and I think the people insisting on a beef going on are either moids or childish fujos/yumes.
What do you think Nonna? I'd like to know your opinion.

I don’t know, but it’s kind of kept me from ever identifying as either. I like fujo, otome, and yumejo stuff (along with a lot of male-oriented stuff as well). Basically if it involves a guy I find cute, I like it. I have seen both fujos and fags sperg out about a female character just appearing in fanart, not even in a pairing context. I have also seen fujos get demonized by women and men as disgusting and fetishists. It’s all dumb.

>>8
>why do people always claim fujoshi hate female characters?
Because a lot of fujos *do* hate female characters that could potentially be paired with one of the guys in their OTP, or female characters that do get together with one of them in the end in canon, and because many old BL manga had female villains who would try to steal one of the guys away from the other. How do you not understand that?

Why do fujos always pretend that there have never been shitstorms over female characters being paired with male characters? You may not personally participate in female-character-hating, but a lot of fujos do.
Also many become fujos because they fantasize about hot anime guys but don't want any competition from other women, they're very jealous and possessive (many admit it themselves) to the point that they see any woman in the story as a threat, unless said woman explicitly supports the main pairing like >>18 (this of course also happens in het romance stories for women, but fujos are more openly hostile to female characters in general)
Also because a lot of fujos become Aidens or develop a desire to be male because they think having sex as a woman is inherently inferior (internalized misogyny)

>>28
>many old BL manga had female villains who would try to steal one of the guys away from the other
hmm which manga, nona?

i wrote a long-ass post, but it's too long for a single comment. sorry for the essay.

i think i'm probably one of these mythical 'fujos who hate women and yumejos,' or at least i'm mistaken for one often enough. it's a lot more nuanced than that, but people who are looking for an excuse to hate fujoshi often jump to conclusions.

i don't hate female characters, but i'm very judgemental about how well they're characterized and i'd rather have no female characters than poorly-written ones. i think it's because i read primarily as a form of escapism and i empathize strongly with female characters; a poorly-written male character is just eye candy to me, but a poorly-written female character brings me out of the fantasy. sometimes it's not just poor writing, too. i also dislike certain archetypes like the 'strong female characters' currently popular in western literature because their personality and actions are too difficult for me to relate to.

>>30
it's the same thing with yumejos, really. i don't hate them, but i don't understand the thought process. i might have a favorite character i'm particularly dedicated to, but i wouldn't want to date him. it's just hard for me to put away the logistics of something like that - our personalities wouldn't mesh, i'm very high-maintenance, i don't even speak japanese - and turn it into a cool fantasy. i don't even like reading stories with vaginal sex, even for het ships i like, because a character having the same genitalia as me brings the whole thing too far from a safe fantasy and too close to reality to be enjoyable. it's just my unhealthy coping mechanisms at play, i guess.

what i dislike about yumejos is really yumejos disguised as fujos - when someone is writing fujo ship content, but it's clear they're projecting heavily on one of the characters and turning them into a self-insert. i've gotten a lot more chill about people 'mischaracterizing' characters in fan content over the years since there's often a lot of room for interpretation, but some works seriously reek of a creator wanting to ship themselves with a character and using another character as their mouthpiece. just write reader-insert fiction if you want to do that.

anyways. i'm probably not representative of most fujoshi, but maybe my perspective might be interesting to consider.

>>30
>i'm very judgemental about how well they're characterized and i'd rather have no female characters than poorly-written ones

i (kind of) relate to this. especially as someone who likes shonen manga; female characters that just sit around and do nothing but serve as a love interest/cheerleader for mc piss me off. female characters that are nothing but walking fanservice fodder or plot devices that inspire male mc to go out and Do Cool Shit are annoying (that being said i don't mind satellite love interests like takemichi's gf from tokyo revengers – mostly bc she isn't a damsel in distress lol).

to a point though, it's also that these poorly written fem characters are crafted by men. they're shitty moid ideas. i don't like seeing them. that annoys me the most, i'm unsure if this makes sense.

>>28
>Because a lot of fujos *do* hate female characters
Yeah, when I was like, 12. Pretty sure lost of those are the young fujos who haven't matured yet. But I agree with you on the Aiden part, we can even go deeper on the conversation why some Fujos turn into Aidens.

>>32
>it's also that these poorly written fem characters are crafted by men. they're shitty moid ideas
This!! I don't hate female charcters, I hate that they weren't made for us, they were made for moids. So i just refuse to get invested in them so I just stick to what is made for me with Shojo female charcters or modern female charcters in BL

>>35
>I hate that they weren't made for us, they were made for moids
don't mind them not being marketed for Women specifically so long as they actually do something cool within their series. makima, maki, nobara, rukia, etc. are all characters i like.

im fujo but i love female character so much even the unironic coomer female chara aimed at moid (yeah my brain is somewhat wired like moid) and also i love yuri too. i think most fujo who hate fem chara in general is just childish fujo/yumes, i see a ton of them in my local weeb fujo community and theyre mostly still underage girl. well they will grow out of that phase anyway. as for fujos vs yume this just from my observation but most fujo in my circle hate yume so much bcus they cringe at yumeshit and just hate self insert shit or hetshit in general. and it same for yume in my local weeb circle they hate fujos bcus they dont like seeing their husbando being gay and doesnt help most of them is homophobic (its normal in most yumes who live in 3rd world country). though i do sometime see fujo who also yume or yume who doesnt mind with fujo content.
im kinda neutral with yume but i dont vibe with them bcus i just dont like self insert shit in general but i dont mind getting along with them tho.
im more baffled at a lot of people make statement how fujo hate yuri bcus most nip fujo artist i follow like yuri too and same goes with yuri artist (usually the female one) love BL too. sure there's fujo who hate yuri but most of the time theyre still childish or underage, almost fujosister i found like both yuri and BL. and nowadays most fujo even the younger one are very open-minded with yuri or just neutral with it (not rly hating it like ppl claim it). if anything nowadays i see alot male himedanshit openly disgusted with BL and hate male chara bcus it threatened their masculinity or puritan himejoshit in twt hating male chara just bcus YAS SLAY QUEEN MUH WOKE WLW LESBIAN and gonna yell at you how if you dont like their female chara you are misogynistic piece of shit.

>>42
same anon need to make separate post bcus its too long welp, obviously not all himejo is like this (im himejo myself). most himejo in my circle is very chill and love/neutral with BL.
i do feel sorry with my himejosister who have to be associated with SJW zoomer lesbiantwt or incel himedanshit.
my opinion for fem chara is i dont rly expect good writing of fem chara in shonen genre & just ignore it. ironically most good fem chaa i find is in cute girls doing cute thing animangames or in couple of chink mobage. i love most girls in chink mobage go for cool beauty and handsome girl direction, like arknights and girls frontline.

>>27
>I have also seen fujos get demonized by women and men as disgusting and fetishists.

this mostly done by the wokes aidens and sjw dyke. most gay man and fudanshi (not aidens) simply dont give a shit abt fujo.
legit tho most gay man i see doesnt care or not give a flying fuck abt fujos. maybe its the zoomer one but even so theyre minority among moid barafag.
i only see gay man just mock fujo taste bcus ew twink but not bcus muh fetishizing muh opressing gay men like you see on twitter.
i hate wokey so much

>>42
i actually like female characters in my bl, because it's so nice seeing a woman not getting abused for dumb coomer moid reasons and it feels less gross than in yuri.

>>45
>i only see gay man just mock fujo taste bcus ew twink
kek all the gay weaboos I've seen online and irl who did this would then tell me that they were all obsessed Red/Blue (from Pokemon) or Sebasciel when they were teenagers so even then they're not even always being serious.

>>35
>I hate that they weren't made for us, they were made for moids.
yes, i think that's exactly it. i read a lot of trashy otome isekai where the female lead is made of wish fulfillment instead of personality, but i don't find myself annoyed with those characters because it's clear they were written by women for women. to self-insert into, but it's the thought that counts.

>>42
>im more baffled at a lot of people make statement how fujo hate yuri
i'm surprised by that too! i see a lot of yuri side ships in bl, both in original works and in fandom/shipping. i imagine it's popular in part because lesbian women can't be involved in a love triangle with guys, so it's not 'threatening' to gay pairings and can't be used for cheap relationship drama.
i don't mind yuri personally since i have a weakness for beautiful female characters, but a lot of what's popular strikes me as very male gaze.

>>46
thats understandable, as for me maybe bcus im just degenerate and coomer so i dont mind seeing gross shit in moid coomer shit, however im more fucking annoyed seeing degrading, shallow and sexism portrayal of female in mainstream or general media. at least in porn you expect to see fetishy and nasty shit and you know what you're getting into, no need to take it srsly. Meanwhile in mainstream media or any non porn media it isn't like that & often it feel more demeaning than in coomershit. i cant explain well but it just feel different seing fetishy on female in coomershit and non-coomershit

>>49
>however im more fucking annoyed seeing degrading, shallow and sexism portrayal of female in mainstream or general media
same honestly
i'm a woman who actually enjoys some coomer shit (like a few select shindoL doujins) but that's solely within coomer shit. if i'm reading a shonen mnaga or watching something meant for a general audience, hell no, i do not want to see boring housewives or damsels in distress

Because they thirst for or self insert as the generic shounen jump girl, most fujos (at least the ones that aren’t preteens) don’t hate female characters for me personally I just hate fanservice bait generic love interest female characters because they exist only for the protagonist to date.

>>28
Well what do we have here, the good old "but fujos hate the girl disturbing their hot yaoi pairing" accusation. I just love how people keep bringing up shit literal 12-year olds say as the gospel truth of how a community behaves at large.

But being serious, a lot of those female characters deserve the hate. Any time I see people dishing it out, the character in question is an useless scrote power fantasy prize without proper plot relevance besides representing a trope of choice (Manic pixie, tsundere, kuudere, mommy replacement, childhood friend..) and giving the MC a cliche'd pep talk, only to suddenly share a kiss and become his girlfriend despite barely sharing a scene with him. The badly written female love interest represents everything that women despise in their lives - being a tool for men to milk emotional labor out of and being valued by her looks and desirability, and expected to crush on and start a relationship with a man out of duty. The hate usually isn't due to "ree woman ruins my hot gay ship" either, it's more about "ree badly written stock relationship is prioritized above the more interesting one just because of the heteronormative status quo".

I repeat, I have never in my life seen a large amount of fujos hate on actually well-written female character. Every time people bitch about "misogynist fujos hating an innocent female character for ruining their gay relationship" it's *always* some annoying shoehorned bitch that even hetfags find annoying and ridicule all the time or like said above, they hate the ship for being nonsensical, not the female character herself.

>>29
Note how she never came back with examples kek. It's actually an outdated, misogynist trope that's despised by Japanese fujos so much that they created a high profile anthology to address it.

>>191
What you said reminded me of Eyeshield 21. I was 100% sure Mamori would become Sena's love interest when I read it in middle school and it wasn't finished yet even though it would have been retarded and I knew I would have hated it. I love that they just stay best bros forever, and even her and Hiruma's relationship is very vague and ambiguous anyway. We need more female characters who don't end up being a love interest in Shonen Jump manga.

>>191
Anthology book? Drop the name nona.

>>198
Guessing it's "Joshi BL", an anthology done as a tribute to all the female characters in BL. https://www.mangaupdates.com/series.html?id=132101

>>8
>why do people always claim fujoshi hate female characters? most of the fujos i hang/hung with had tons of female favorites and only ever despised women that didn't do anything (orihime of bleach, for example).
Yume here
I personally mostly see younger fans, Aidens or young Ayydens actively doing so. Older yumes and fujos have mostly moved on and only really hate those that do nothing.
As for the yume vs fujo "war", it's much greyer than moids think. I've known quite a lot of people who are both, hell, even a yume husbandofag whose husbando is from a BL game.
What I do not respect though, is pretending to be one while secretly being the other. Whether it is totally-not Ayydens writing what's supposedly fujo ship content but actually projecting into them (usually on the bottom) in order for them to self insert or so-called husbandofag yumes that do not mind or even rejoice on seeing their husbandos fuck or get fucked bu someone else, that's something I'll never forgive. Pick a side and go with it.

>>8
Because when I read yaoi I want to see cute boys interacting with cute boys and kissing cute boys. If I want to read or watch female characters, I can look literally anywhere and everywhere else for that. Yaoi is still very niche so why would I want to see more females characters in something that promises to focus on boys? If people equate wanting to just see anime boys as hating women then they're no different than the retards who can't tell the difference between fiction and reality and think I want to look at 3D moids make out because I like yaoi. I don't mind yumejos, but not wanting to see females doesn't mean people hate females. I'll even say that even if someone does hate female characters and you're mad at them for it, you're just projecting feeling like a victim over 2D characters. There's people that hate male characters in their ecchi and yuri manga and no one gets mad at them for that, so why is it the opposite when a woman doesn't want to see females in their yaoi manga? Why are they accused of "internalized misogyny" or some other retarded term? I think it's completely fair and people who equate 2D morals and logic to 3D are smooth brained.

>>30
Based and same. Yaoi is an escapeism for me as well and I don't want to read about le empowering strong female character I just wanna get off to boys kissing. I don't want to think and cute boys gives me the feel good chemical in my brain.

>>30
I agree with you. I also dislike poorly written female characters and female characters clearly meant to be fanservice. I would rather they not be there.

The hottest female charas are when fujos draw genderbends of male chara. The only downside is when you're in a fandom with moderately buff cast and it's like they're competing to draw the tits bigger and heavier every time until it stops making sense for the characters.

I did used to hang out in some yumejo spaces where they both hated genderbends and all fujos with a fiery passion. Even when it didn't affect the shows and characters they liked they seemed to have it in for people they'd never met. It was a shock really, I'm used to fans of the same character being like OMG YES YOU GET IT and sharing what they like, but those yumejo at least would start hissing and acting like it was Highlander before they even met the person. They'd start sharing screencaps of someone else's socmed and practically stalking them for dirt to talk shit and say they're not a true yome for this guy. I've doubted people's interests in characters I like because they got shit wrong about them from the manga or whatever, but the fucking secret exposé operations killed me. Pretty sure me and the other mild yumes all left without saying anything about it. Also I totally dug through the socmeds of the ones who stalked other people to collect and tell my best friend what crazy entitled shit they got up to in their daily lives, so I guess I'm just a different flavor of terrible. I just love watching people send themselves anon Tumblr asks telling themselves how great they are, then blogging about how no boy will ever love them. 10/10, ningen saiko.

>>1754
>The only downside is when you're in a fandom with moderately buff cast and it's like they're competing to draw the tits bigger and heavier every time until it stops making sense for the characters.

God I hate this. I also love m-to-f genderbends, but finding good ones where they stick to the original outfit and don't turn badass characters into moeblobs with huge tits can be hard. Not to mention the huge amount of hetbend that sometimes shows up in BL logs. I got so tired of this in shonen fandom that I just started excluding genderbend tag from search.

Tangent but I also love genderbent yuri, but finding it written well is also such a chore. I think the only stuff I found for my OTP on pixiv was OOC modernshit and OOC AUshit. I just want the same characters with the same jobs as in canon.

>>28
>Why do fujos always pretend that there have never been shitstorms over female characters being paired with male characters?
That's normal, it's ship war. Are you suggesting straight ships don't do the same thing? Who do you think hates Hinata more than Sakura/Naruto shippers?

>>8
Fujos often dislike female anime characters because they neither self-insert like yumes nor are they attracted to them like het men and most female characters are written as waifu bait, so if you aren't into that there is nothing to gain.
If you imagine these characters as men you know that not a single male fan would care about them. But since the majority of them are obsessed with devote trad waifus that love them unconditionally and have no other standards all a manga needs is one of these to make money.

It's not because of the gender itself that women and especially fujos dislike a lot of characters. Whenever a mangaka or director is actually capable of writing female characters without thinking with his dick they are great and I end up liking not one but multiple of them a lot. But I feel it's rare. Even great series with strong and diverse male characters usually have pseudo-autistic girls or wallflowers in love with MC.

>>8
They don't get that fujos don't hate female characters but the shitty roles female characters usually fulfill.

In the end almost every manga and anime that isn't explicitly BL will first and foremost pander otaku or at least men. Female characters eventually just exist to be paired up, usually with the MC for harem antics, even if the series isn't even harem. Sometimes the loser or weird girls are for the male side characters, assuring that every guy "gets" one woman. Women also have plot armor since they have to survive because otaku coom to them. This is especially egregious if a lot of male characters you like are dying, like in a series about pirates, survival or war. It always reminds you that you aren't the audience they care about.

And all of this sucks. It already sucks on principle but it double sucks if you are mainly watching it for the male characters and their interactions. I have never seen fujos hating a well-written female character, they hate characters that are solely defined by fanservice or her relationship with a guy.

Just turn what pisses fujos off around and imagine how otaku would react if girl centered series started killing off the girls, pairing survivors up with randos they don't self-insert into and focus 100% of the fanservice on the men only and this wouldn't be an exception but the majority of series. Studios would burn, people would be killed for making anime "woke" aka not pandering solely to male coomers.

i have a number of female characters i really enjoy and care about, alas as the previous anons have mentioned, female characters written by men usually just exist to be love interests, otaku fap fodder or tools to progress the plot or development for a male character
i have nothing but love for my yumejo sisters in the same way a deeply religious person respects the beliefs of a fellow religious person who subscribes to a different faith, plus there are a number of yuri series/ships I enjoy anyways, perhaps in a world were i liked women exclusively and the majority of mainstream yuri wasn't written by men/boring as fuck i'd be one myself (even then i'd probably just be one of those not so rare lesbian fujos) i think moids just engineered the idea of bad blood between us since they hate seeing women have hobbies and touch themselves to chick fights
ngl as a kid i remember hating on female characters that got in the way of my gay ships but even then i think i really just disliked how the female characters had no agency or attachment to the plot unlike the male characters which i could actually relate to
speaking of, it's interesting how the token female of any shounen group, Nobara and Sakura as the most obvious examples, have nothing to really do with the plot as a whole. Naruto and Sasuke get edgy backstories but Sakura is just the token girl who comes from a normal family, Yuji is the main character with all the quirks that entails, Megumi is from a fucked up family which massive plot relevance and Nobara is just some girl from the country who wanted to live in the city (I do love Nobara though, even if she was done so dirty)

Maybe I'm a sperg but I really like series such as Touhou or MLP where the female characters feel like people instead of super sexual blobs. Part of the appeal of BL to me is how the dynamic feels more equal rather than hetshit slop with BDSM shit thrown in for no reason.

I've been in many fandoms,shonen shoujo romantic comedies, as well as some video game fandoms..and the amount of double standards is really high.

How come in romantic comedies it's perfectly normal for people to shit fling, fight and discuss about which girl will "win" the mcbowl, but, if a girl shipper wasn't enthusiastic about a girl character, AND into both males characters as couple, she would be labeled a misogynist fujo?
I think this has more to do with hating that type of ROMANCE than hating women.
Even so the thing is, some female characters always tend to be romantically involved for some reason, and some fans become so obsessed they seem to care more about the romance subplot than the characters themselves.
Meanwhile other female characters who are often not romantically involved tend to have more agency and development.
Of course this is not always the case, some romance stories are perfectly written, but it is unfortunately common, and it's the reason why this argument even started in the first place.

>>4867
This is my problem. I have many female characters I like, but they're all from series with no romance or series with a yuribait flavor. Hetero pairings basically rip a female character's personality away but I'm still expected to care about literal non-characters just because they're girls?

>>4864
>speaking of, it's interesting how the token female of any shounen group, Nobara and Sakura as the most obvious examples, have nothing to really do with the plot as a whole
I didn't watch Naruto but this is what annoys me so much. It feels like the male characters are actual part of the story and the women are OCs that are forced into the story for the same reasons fanfics force OCs in, to make a hetero love interest possible where there was none. Mari from NGE Rebuild is the epitome of this shit.

It's not just the anger about losing gay ships, it's that the girls' sole reason for existence is to procreate or sexually harass a male character and said character suddenly feels so much more superficial to me when stops being the guy that values mental strength, traits and people that are equal to him to someone that just grabs, fucks and marries the next best girl because he can.
I might actually ENJOY het if the woman was a capable warrior fighting on his side and matching his personality. But no. Those developments always make me think "oh, so that interesting guy is just another manwhore without standards, like all of them" and lose interest.

It's hurting both, the male characters as well as the female ones. I also despise it when a female character has potential but then you realise the author just wrote her in to be in love with the guy and beg him to make babies with her. Because get it, that's why women exist! argh I swear I consider everybody stupid who isn't able to write a story without sinking to this level of self-indulgence. Most mangaka even HAVE wives, shut up already and stop desiring a fucking harem and focus on your story instead!

>>4869
>It's not just the anger about losing gay ships, it's that the girls' sole reason for existence is to procreate or sexually harass a male character and said character suddenly feels so much more superficial to me when stops being the guy that values mental strength, traits and people that are equal to him to someone that just grabs, fucks and marries the next best girl because he can.
This is honestly the best way I've ever seen this problem described and it's 100% accurate. Het romances ruin both male and female characters because writers just drop the ball on them immediately, the male character turns into a generic moid being led around by his dick and the female character becomes another tropey girlfriend without agency.

>>4870
So the only way for het ships to increase is to just write them as people and keep their relationship status as vague and as headcanon-y as possible?

>>4870
Gay ships are allowed to have dynamics and characterization but straight ships 99% of the time is literally "I like him/her because he/she has a dick/vagina." Like, that's it. The whole reason the pairing even exists and the characters are attracted to each other is because they are the opposite gender. Writers don't even make an attempt with their het ships, which boggles the mind because 95% of people enter heterosexual relationships in their lives so you'd they'd at least try to draw from experience, but they don't.

>>4874
This is the fucked up part yeah. It makes me wonder if my prejudices about the majority of het couples (at least those of older generations) are right and they literally just get together because their partner happened to be the next-best guy or woman around that was nice to them when they wanted to fuck. Because this is how fictional pairings are written.
The fact that it almost always feels self-inserty to me doesn't help. It's either a bunch of girls begging for MC's cock or the love interest is some super devote tradwife OR it's literal kids/lolis. Often enough it's an unholy mix of all three and I can't imagine that this is done for writing purposes and not because the creator is projecting his degenerated wishes into his work.
>>4873
Yes, people should generally do this and male characters are often better than female ones because they are written as people, whereas women are often just written as gender. It's "the woman", so she does women things that only women can do because for every other role we have the male characters.

>>4868
>but they're all from series with no romance
Because more often than not romance is like cancer for the writing of a female character, it slowly grows in often corrupting any sense of self the character has or in worst case scenarios she was created only to be a romantic interest and nothing else.

>>4877
>It makes me wonder if my prejudices about the majority of het couples (at least those of older generations) are right
It is true. Most people just get together because it's what they're supposed to do socially and they found someone who's nice to them (if they're lucky. So many het couples are just loveless to downright abusive and they only stay together because of societal conventions). Historically, most couples were arranged with whichever partner was availabe without even a hint of romance before the knot was already tied. Heterosexual relationships being unions of love are a modern invention. Basically, most het romance in media is shit because most het couples have been shit historically and that will endure in the collective unconscious. Not saying gay couples can't be shit, but since the societal pressures are applied in the opposite way (pressured to not be with the same sex), when they do get together it's because their love has to be strong enough to help them fight against the odds. As gay coupling becomes more normalized in modern times, they'll eventually trend towards the same "we're together because that's what we're supposed to do" situation that het couples have always been in.

>>4874
That's how het romances have worked since time immemorial, just think back to all the fairy tales where a woman meets a man and they just fall in love immediately. No time for courting because you had to get married and have babies before one of you died of pneumonia I guess. Times changed yet the portrayal of het romances and the standards for het relationship stayed the same, but women went forward and wanted to have standards for the men they date and that's why we have an incel problem now. Meanwhile authors writing gay relationships have to either get around the censorship and leave tons of traces and subtle hints that combine into a blossoming relationship and/or they have to make the relationship extremely convincing to really hammer it in that these people aren't just friends.

>The fact that it almost always feels self-inserty to me doesn't help.
Also the folly of a lot of straight romances. They focus only on self insertion so they don't have to go through the effort to make the relationship convincing because the reader will just fill in the gaps since the other character is just like them for real and the other is left vague enough to be their dream date. It's only made worse in the 2010's because the internet gave a free highway for every schizo to turn jealous and possessive of their waifus/husbandos so authors and companies are even scared of writing real straight romances to avoid becoming the victims of domestic terrorism.

>>4873
This is pretty much how I end up with non-m/m ships. Another thing that puts me off of hetero ships is that the canon ones are carried by the woman's feelings 99% of the time. At MOST the dude is only ever shown getting flustered and even when we have access to HIS INNER MONOLOGUE there's never any "wow [love interest] sure is great and pretty, I want to date her" (big shoutout to Shirou Fatestaynight for doing exactly this) or even crude shit like him getting a boner/nosebleed. When we ARE shown this kind of attraction to a woman, it's with the unattainable/sexy/popular/bitch character that the MC *NEVER* gets with (and feels like she was made for the self-inserters to hate).

Of course the answer to these frustrations is "stop reading/playing media for teenagers" but that's where the shipping brainrot is, haha. I don't think about these things when I read Literature For Adults because they usually don't have tepid romances (or try to lie to you when the romances are indeed tepid).

>>4885
>scared of writing real straight romances to avoid becoming the victims of domestic terrorism.
I'm enjoying this era of shonen writers avoiding canon romances (both JJK and MHA ended with no pairings). All the domestic terrorism stuff I see is about Chinese yumes and Korean incels though, so I'm not sure if they are related.

>>4886
I think Horikoshi was planning on pairing Deku and Ochaco together in the end but changed his mind during the series' run and got way into blatantly yurishipping her with the other girl kek. He's been pretty supportive of Deku and Bakugo too. JJK is rumored to be at least partially made by a woman (and "confirmed" as Ken Akamatsu referred to Gege as a woman) so that would explain that. I honestly like that new generation shounen authors don't shy away from same sex relationships, I know people like to be cynical about them just doing it to get their rocks off but I just like that they're being normalized like this.

>>4865
It's also because the 2hus aren't made to be deliberately sexy or sexualizable and MLP even less (despite the fact that the series did pander to bronies every here and there).

>>4873
In a way, yes. This is pretty much what happens to BL ships too in non-BL media as well. The delusion is what keeps the interest going.

>>4886
>Another thing that puts me off of hetero ships is that the canon ones are carried by the woman's feelings 99% of the time.
Yeah this. It makes both characters bad and the romance void. It means that the MC would just fuck every other girl if she felt like this, there is no inherent trait of her that he actually loves or even cares about. He just takes a girl and it will be the one that simps for him the hardest. It's technically an one-sided romance since he just wants a wife to fuck. It also makes it obvious that it's wish fulfillment pandering for coomers.
>Of course the answer to these frustrations is "stop reading/playing media for teenagers" but that's where the shipping brainrot is
Honestly I barely ever even found a book where I felt like shipping anybody. For some reason book characters are almost always unlikeable as fuck to me. Maybe I am too autistic and books are written by normal people and for normal people and I just cannot relate with the characters they identify or depict.

>>4858
>Women also have plot armor since they have to survive because otaku coom to them.
Yeah, it very blatant and I like writers that go against this trend (Urobuchi).

>>4858
>Women also have plot armor since they have to survive because otaku coom to them. This is especially egregious if a lot of male characters you like are dying, like in a series about pirates, survival or war. It always reminds you that you aren't the audience they care about.
Yeah, I put this together just recently myself. Bishounens and male female fan favourites are always deathflagged from the start and you can expect them to be killed immediately after they've served their main plot purpose, but there's no female character so worthless or disliked that the author would ever kill them off because they need to be there for the coom and to make things less gay. I realized this after a male character I really really liked actually survived death and I found myself surprised to see him being spared while it's usually female characters who are brought back to life at any means necessary and I was fully expecting him to just die while the female characters would always stay alive even if it meant pulling a full deus ex machina on the audience.

And often it's not just the death that follows them. Those characters usually get disgraced in one way or another, like they turn out to be psychopatic traitors at the last minute to justify them being removed and making it impossible to bring them back because now their characters have been practically erased.

>>5386
>And often it's not just the death that follows them. Those characters usually get disgraced in one way or another
God in heaven, this.
If it's well-written villains they'll eventually get insane all of a sudden for no reason other than the author sucking too much to write a nuanced argument so they change it to a black vs white battle and expect the readers to forget the points the villain has made.
If it's well-written secondary antagonists or side characters they usually just suffer some cruel fate and that chance increases if they're hinted to be gay.

I am not even joking or exaggerating when I say that half of my favorites committed suicide, got crippled, blinded, deeply depressive, lonely and other shit for no other reason than an author or audience being unable to coom to them. This even happens when the characters are important. It's sucks and would never happen with het pairings because otaku would burn down the mangaka's house or anime studio but I am supposed to enjoy it because "it makes sense to end like this, sis". It technically does. But it's strangely only certain characters that get the "logical" end while everybody else gets dodges their fate thanks to asspull after asspull.

>>5389
>This even happens when the characters are important. It's sucks and would never happen with het pairings because otaku would burn down the mangaka's house or anime studio but I am supposed to enjoy it because "it makes sense to end like this, sis".
Oh lord, I felt this one. A fandom I'm in was begging for a popular male character to die because "It would make sense! It would be so cool!" and it just drove me fucking insane because you never see the glorification of death as a plot device for female characters. It seems the only female characters that are allowed to die are either literal NPCs or one dimensional villains that you aren't even supposed to form an emotional bond with but the (implied gay) male best friends and charismatic female favourites get the axe whether you like it or not.

>>5389
This is why trying to get any fujo content from "omnipandering" media or shounen is a mistake now. The best dynamics will come from certain characters who always die. Akechi was the only thing I liked in Persona 5 but he wasn't a waifu and the men playing the game chimped out about him, so they can never confirm his fate. If he was a girl they would have made him the canon waifu like Aigis.

>>5413
Akechi being heavily implied to be still alive (with the secret ending and deleted but fully programmed post-death scene) AND getting so much extra attention and content was such a win for fujos, and with such a popular game like P5 it was very unusual and of course it did make the moids seethe but all the devs had to do was cook up a derivative, boring and flat new waifu they could coom to (no one else liked her). The already deep and plot relevant character got even more content and development while the waifus (some of them decent) stayed the same and even got their screen time stolen by a half-assed waifu, and in her character arc the male villain managed to outshine her. Incredible, I'm still shocked they went for it.
Also since you mentioned her, I fucking hate Aigis. I know it's unpopular and Idc, when I recently played P3 she came off as a shoehorned mary sue that's perfect in every way and suddenly gets shoved into the plot at the end. Even the attempts at making her funny and le quirky were awful. Idk why she's the popular one when the other women are a lot better (but still held down by the disgusting coomery moments and romance that turns them into flustered doormats). Everyone acts like P3's waifus are written better but to me they tend to get cringy really fast while on the other hand the cringiness works for P5 because of the silly ass context.

>>5420
They deleted the scene confirming that he was alive so now all the dudebros do is get smug about how he's dead. It's hard to not resent the company because they never continued Royal and keep Akechi in this limbo so his haters can get the last laugh. If men liked him, like they like Adachi, this wouldn't be the case. It made any gains from Royal feel hollow when the dudebros can still gloat about how he can never appear in anything again so his fans can never be happy.

>>5432
>dudebros can still gloat about how he can never appear in anything again so his fans can never be happy.
Dudebros only ever care about canon when it cucks a popular m/m ship. It's pure copium. Fujos have 100s of hours of post-game content on pixiv and Ao3. We always win.

>>5432
Idk, to me it doesn't matter because it's clear what the intention of the writers was. And Akechi is actually alive if you get the proper ending in the post-credit scene. All the coomer waifufags saying it's somehow a hallucination are coping hard, it's clear that the scene meant that Akechi was able to escape death. That's his entire theme too, it's tied to his personas, specifically Hereward, but I don't expect dudebros to read anything beside hentais of their waifus.
They can seethe all they want, but at the end of the day fujos got game content that further developed the character that was already heavily plot relevant in the original game, they made it canonical that the one desire of the protagonist during the third semester was to bring him back to life (but he wasn't dead to begin with), we got sexually charged lines while he is in the team (also a big win), him laying down with Joker in the opening movie, or them being together in the Maruki "bad ending" cards (fun fact, in the very last one Joker and Akechi are the only ones looking at the camera). They even put more effort in their special attack together with shit like "two sides, same coin", the whole game is full of intentional parallels between Joker and Akechi alone but of course the coomers can't pick them up. And what do they get? Some flat new waifu that didn't fit at all (no matter how hard they tried to spin Kasumi as part of a "Royal trio", nobody fucking sees her as that and the coomers don't even care for her), and some awful female confidants that are irrelevant to the game's story. Basically they've got the side fanfictions, while we got the entire canonical game that they also were forced to play through.
A reminder that Atlus writers managed to make an established coomer cheater character like Vincent into a canonical bisexual with Rin, and he has actual chemistry with him (they also deadname the tranny character lol).