/ffs/ - Fujo Fandom Sperging

I have ships that fall under both scenarios, which is kinda funny because I've been annoyed by other people liking the more conventionally attractive ship when I prefer the pairing with an ugly character kek (I like KakaGai and hate Kakairu).

I can understand people who are sticklers for shipping based on dynamics, especially if they're attached to either/both of the characters. From their view just shipping based on appearances comes off as shallow and not really caring about the characters involved since it's basically just throwing two hot guys at each other without any regard for canon development. Especially if the 2 hot guys ship is more popular than the one with actual interactions. But at the end of the day shipping is just for fun.

>>4596
I tend to do both! when Im just getting started with a series, i gravitate towards ships with characters that look good, however as I get to know the series and characters longer, I start to enjoy crackships/ships that would work just by virtue of having a similar narrative.

This is probably the predictable answer, but I think it has to be a bit of both? For me personally, it takes a while to get to know the characters before I can actually ship them, and whenever I do get to that point, my ships usually fall within several specific dynamics. At the same time, I don't know if I'd ship two characters who I found physically repulsive. If I truly hated looking at them, I probably wouldn't like them enough to ship them in the first place. I definitely have a couple of pairings with ugly-ish characters, but they aren't so hideous that they gross me out. I don't get people who don't base it on personality, but I don't have anything against it. It's just something I don't understand the appeal of doing.
>>4596
>Zosan
I'm no One Piece fan (I've watched a few episodes, but I am pretty ignorant), but don't they fight a lot? Some people like me really like shipping characters with a rivalry or who fight all the time. I don't know enough about the show to say if that's their dynamic, but I always assumed that was the appeal?

Usually if one or both characters are super ugly and have no redeeming fanart that I can use to trick my brain into thinking the character is actually hot, (I did this with Paul Dano Riddler) then I’m not gonna ship them. I’ve had this happen with Kirishima from mha. Outside of fanart where his hair is down, I’ve never been able to ship him with anyone because I find him ugly (no offense to anyone who likes Kirishima).
>>4596
>Zosan
I think it’s wild Zosan is popular due to attractiveness because I've always thought Sanji was ugly and that Luffy was way hotter and the better choice to ship Zoro with. I had a tinfoil moment where I started thinking that Zosan’s popularity was actually caused by the fact that Luffy seems a little young to ship with Zoro. But I don’t think older fandom cared too much about that and Zosan is an older ship. Maybe they did and it was more of a subconscious thing. Or maybe I’m coping and people actually find Sanji attractive.

For me its dynamics I might be drawn in by attractive characters but if there isn't a strong foundation for a ship or at least a plausible route to one I can't be invested.
Usually in a ship there is at least one character that I find attractive either in looks or personality, because that's what gets me interested in shipping them in the first place but I'm not afraid of "ugly" characters if the personality is strong or they bounce off of another character well. To use OP example I've always been a strong SanUso shipper, I find Sanji to be cute but I don't find Usopp attractive all. However they both have complementary personalities so I ship them and they are my One Piece OTP, I wouldn't say that I have to trick my brain to find Usopp cute for the pair, just that I think his good qualities shine through once you get to know him and you aren't just basing it on physical appearance. Lupin/Zenigata is another I ship with "ugly" characters, I don't find either traditionally cute but the thief/cop dynamic is strong so it overwrites the more conventionally attractive pairing of Lupin/Jigen.

>>4602
Let me tell you Sanji has always been the dream boat character of the fandom and he was even designed to be as such (inspired by post-Titanic DiCaprio and Reservoir Dogs Buscemi). I really like his Pre-timeskip designs in particular with the blues and black. Zoro is the one I never found attractive. But I do like his personality so I ship him with Luffy who, for the record, I don't think there was ever any big backlash against shipping. There were just people who were annoyed by how "immature" he was.

I like to ship based on character dynamics, but I don't mind a ship where it's obvious someone just thinks two characters are hot together as long as it's interesting and results in some sort of characterization. Right now I'm trying to figure out some sort of canon basis just to crack ship my two favorite characters together for the sake of character development.
If it's just plotless fluff, porn, or trope fics where the fandom doesn't even come into play I can't find it interesting. Something like Zosan wouldn't be my choice because I find Luzo more interesting, but Zosan has a lot of characterization to work off of even though each character has more chemistry with maybe the entire male cast. What I can't stand is when a fanbase picks a bicycle and just adds him to every single ship for no reason while ignoring any character development that canon is offering on a silver platter [spoiler] LAW [/spoiler]

>>4596
It really depends imo.
I'm a dynamicsfag first and foremost but attractiveness depends from person to person. There's people who actually like the Osomatsus and shipped them both in a weird 'humanized' way which looked much more uncanny than adapting the muppetsih look (which is ugly to me personally but some people find it cute).
There are characters that everyone somehow finds hot, but you can't see the appeal of them at all EVEN IF they are conventionally attractive (Childe is like this to me).
I have shipped 'ugly' characters before, but their 'uglyness' also really depends on someone.
If someone's just getting started into their fujo journey, I don't think it's bad to ship purely entirely through looks alone but if you want to have a better long-lasting enjoyment, you'll end up being more drawn to dynamics more than anything. But not every dynamic will be your thing even if it's your niche, at least that's how I see it.

Dynamics, hands down. I'm simply unable to ship characters based on looks, I've never been one of those people who take the only two attractive male characters in the series and ship them together just to have a bishounen ship despite them never even talking to each other. I get absolutely no satisfaction from that, the ship has to have something the characters can canonically connect over because to me it becomes frustrating to never get any canon interaction for the ship I like. But I tend to be one of those people who don't have an OTP in everything they consume, if a series has no shipping potential for any of the characters then that's fine by me, I still have plenty of lovely ships from other sources.

Genuine ugly x ugly shippers are God's strongest soldiers, I like some unconventionally looking characters but that's why I give them hot boyfriends.

>>4608
Are there any ships you can think of that are like that though? I feel like while it's all subjective I can't think of any ships that are completely baffling from just a visual perspective. Usually I can see some appeal at least even if the characters are ugly to me.

I’m sucker for visual aesthetics and I have no problem to create dynamics from scratch

Hand in hand for me. I'm biased. I want two attractive men with interesting backstories and dynamics getting it on. Why invest my time on a pairing don't find neither compelling or attractive? Don't get me started on the pickmes calling other fujos shallow for wanting young attractive men in their ships instead of all that old man yaoi crap.

>>4611
I actually like middle-aged men, and usually find them more attractive than bishies lol. To each their own.

There's nothing wrong with shipping purely on attraction though I don't get any enjoyment if there isn't at least a little canon basis. The part you said about characters being "compelling" is what really seals the deal. A character can be ugly, cute, hot ect. But none of that matters if they aren't interesting and worth reading/writing stories about.

>>4596
90% dynamics, 10% looks. Sometimes a motherfucker is just so wretched to me I can't get into the ship.
>Beyblade where the two most shipped characters were Kai and Rei
I remember being really mad about this because Kai/Tyson was the one that made sense to me.
>>4609
Pete/Billy from the Venture Bros falls into this, but I feel like using western cartoons is cheating.

>>4609
>Are there any ships you can think of that are like that though?
The guys from The Terror.

>>4609
Breaking Bad and BCS

>>4631
>>4644
Real people don't count since human attraction is so broad it's not surprising there would be a community for anyone flesh and blood.
>>4621
Now this is a better example was only thinking of anime when I posted that but cartoons are ripe for weird bizarre, and frankly ugly ships. Chemistry might be good for all I know so I respect them, but I'd probably be too embarrassed to publicly ship something like that under a main account.

>>4609
grucest

>>4650
Whats funny is I've never seen a native English speaker into this ship its all Japanese artists. Very odd, I don't even think they have a good dynamic it feels like incest for incests sake. Fair, but literally any other series works better.

Whenever I think about stuff like this I always think about these two, shirou is a cutie and I see him get paired up with way cuter boys but his relationship with ryuugo is literally the gayest thing in the franchise and it would be a sin to ship them with anyone else just because one of them is a bit fugly looking, their overall relationship and the quality of it goes beyond just two bishies together… That being said I probably couldn't ship two uggos together unless their relationship was really gay and juicy and also fanatics made them look hotter than they are in reality

>>4650
Instant Nozmo flashbacks

>>4652
He's kind of got an ugly-cute vibe honestly. What makes their relationship so gay nonna, are they childhood friends?

>>4655
uggo initially disliked qt for replacing his friend on the team but they gradually grow closer, uggo improved personality wise after meeting qt, acts tsundere around him and qt even wears his uniform at one point, they have beauty and the beast vibes

>>4650
Kek props to the artist for managing to make them kiss with those noses

>>4656
>>4655
his relationship with Axel is also quite gay, like he was the top striker on the team, but Axel showed up and was much better than him. At first he was very insecure, but he realised that he could help the team better in the bottom role and he'd become Axel's dickrider after that(I'm half-joking but that's literally what happened)

>>4664
>bottom role
>Axel dickrider
thats so on the nose i cant stop giggling

>>4602
The inherent problem with shipping characters like Goku and Luffy is that there's no character to them, they're like brick walls narratively.

>>4690
I disagree Luffy clearly has a character and personality, and while he's not the most dynamic he's not boring either especially by shonenshit standards.

Haven't seen Dragonball so I won't comment on Goku. The only characters I struggle to ship due to lacking character tend to be game protags. The persona series for instance doesn't have a single MC I like with anyone since they're all (cute) blank slates.

>>4690
>three whole arcs about Luffy trying to save three different guy crewmates
>Zoro
Not only does Luffy have a personality, half of it is about hanging out with some guy he decided was cool.The other half is fightfagging and eating. I couldn't even tell you what Goku's personality is like.

>>4690
you need to open your mind to shounen fujos who manage to see yaoi in even the most bland powerscale slop. their creativity make the most top class content

>>4703
Shonen has writers so afraid of writing women that they just make it gay by accident, like kishimoto, or writers that think straight romance is boring like oda
However one piece gets so fucking gay sometimes that even retarded powerscalers and normies can pick up on it

>>4692
>>4697
>>4703
We are talking about Shounen here, I don't read it for well developed characters, it's the equivalent of Junk-food and there's nothing wrong liking Junk-good but you shouldn't pretend it's well made

>>4711
Static character doesn't equal poorly written character though? Luffy doesn't go through sweeping character arcs where he grows as a person, but that isn't the same as not having a personality or being a bad character.

Most series deaigned to last forever be they shoujo or shonen give the protagonist a loud clearly defined personality to make the viewer like them and then rely on external conflicts not internal conflicts to string the plot along. One Piece also does this by giving Luffy a crew who do go though dynamic character arcs.

I agree that unless you switch protagonists or have arcs focused on different characters all Shonen Jump series are inherently devalued by the fact that they are designed to go on forever and can't easily making sweeping changes to the status quo of the work. However I don't think they are completely "junk food" either and there are unique benefits like setting up character beats that are only payed off years later for instance Shanks, Sanji, Koby, and several smaller characters in OP have stuff like that which is only capable because it's a long running serialized manga.

It's fine to not like it, I'm at the point in my life where I don't want to read 100+ volume works. In fact I'm not even caught up to OP and probably will never actually finish it even though I have fond memories of the early parts. It just seems misguided to dismiss serialized works outright.

>>4712
I don't hate it, I wouldn't care about If i didn't enjoy it but I will also acknowledge it's bad writing decisions and again and I'm fine with characters staying static in long running series, but One Piece characters have actively devolved and been flanderized

>>4720
That I will agree with, the ship dynamics were positively fucked after the timeskip and shortly after that I dropped the series.

Not as big of a fall off as something like Bleach, but enough that I had no interest in continuing.

So, I was thinking about this thread in relation to the non-human thread on /wes/ and I think more western fans would fall in the second camp right? Not even talking specifically ugly ships like >>4650 or whatever, but if you're shipping Looney Tunes, or like Ed, Edd, n Eddy characters you're probably into the perceived character dynamic moreso than anything else. Not to insinuate cute /wes/ ships don't exist of course. plenty of conventually cute characters there as well I just think dynamic shipping is more common for cartoon properties.

Meanwhile I think a lot video game ships are the two cute boys thrown together, not that they don't have substance but I think because of the limits of video games as a medium focused more on player interactivity instead of showing a narrative to the viewer the characters aren't always as developed as they could be and the shipping comes more from outward appearance and the brief shimmers of personality that we get in dialog and cutscenes. Gacha games are the biggest offender here, and I cannot get invested in most of those ships. Conversely most visual novels or games with heavy visual novel elements do have enough time dedicated to their characters to circumvent that.

>>4735
>So, I was thinking about this thread in relation to the non-human thread on /wes/ and I think more western fans would fall in the second camp right?
I'd say so, personally. Lately when looking at newer doujins I'll see Hazbin hotel or Helluva boss ones and I just can't take them seriously when the characters have western cartoon proportions and/or a literal TV head.

>>4736
The combination of realistic ecchi body and cartoony design everywhere else is taking me out. I still have no idea how Hazbin took off in Asian fandom, did it get a Japanese dub or sub?
But tbqh I'm just jealous and wish I could make something that would get noticed by nihon-senpai and spawn actualfax doujins.

>>4740
It did actually, in fact the pilot had a Japanese dub before the series was even officially out.

Personally I can see people being attracted to the Hazbin characters since their designs are mainly suits, demon boy elements, and other DeviantArt sparkledog edginess, but oddly enough I don't feel like any two male characters have had enough time for a romantic ship? You've got Alastor/Lucifer as a hatefucking ship, Alastor/Husk and Valentino/Angel have the contracts you can play with, and the show is clearly setting up Husk/Angel, but idk. Just not enough screentime yet for me to care, I hope later seasons give more time to breath as the characters seem fun.

Here's Poison JP dub btw. Just about every major language has a dub and I'd recommend checking of the Italian and Turkish versions of some of the songs since they're good.

>>4742
i mean there's vox/val as well and vox/alastor as a one-sided crush ship but yeah, if you want better BL content i'd check out helluva boss instead

>>4749
Honestly despite the fact that someone posted a doujin of it above Vox is such a minor character to me I forgot complelty about shipping him with Alastor whoops.

I don't want to derail the thread too much, but Helluva doesn't hook me as much as Hazbin conceptually, plus I don't like Stolas. Which is why I'm hoping season 2 will fulfill the pre-req fujo needs so I can read all the JP doujins.

>>4735
>>4736
The strangest case I ever saw was the Tom and Jerry shipping

>>4761
Tom is uke Jerry is seme.

>>4763
BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED

>>4763
unironically i would kill for some gijinka yaoi of tom getting tag teamed and spitroasted by nibbles and jerry

>>4761
I knew Tom and Jerry had some degree of popularity in Japan from all those Touhou edits, but learning about the gacha game with the Tuffy maid skin was like getting flashbanged.

>>4692
I only like One-Piece ships outside the main cast

>>4808
there are a lot of interesting character dynamics that exist outside of the main crew, with the warlords and the supernovas being good examples. The most I can do with the main crew are luffy and zoro or zoro and some other non-strawhats i like

>>4819
I just can't take the shipping with Luffy seriously, this isn't a "he's [x] coded" moralfag, it's that he's a static non-character. It would be like shipping a dog with someone

Speaking of OP's image I was initially suprised the anime didn't inspire any Laios x Senshi, but then I wasn't because I saw Laios x Chilchuck got a fanfic boost instead. Chilchuck is way cuter, but Senshi and Laios have the similar love of cooking monsters and I was hoping for a least a few fluff stories for that. I'm just saying if Senshi was a cute halfling those fanwork counts would be switched.

Kabu is great but I never shipped him with anyone and the anime still hasn't sold me on him and Laios.

>>4835
>Laios x Senshi
Ewwwwwwwwwwwww

>>4840
Haha, I already said why. I maintain if Senshi had a cute design people would be making cooking fics with the two.
Can't say I'm surprised by the reaction though :p

>>4596
I wanted to scream "DYNAMICS OF COURSE" since the majority of 2D men I love aren't conventionally attractive. But then I realized that this is the very reason for why I should scrutinize my former answer.

If looks play no role, why do my guys look weird? Think I should ask myself about the relation between dynamics and designs. E.g. if I'm into pairings involving grumpy men or veterans with emotional scars I won't find many pretty teenagers, it's most likely older men. Ships between despots and their loyal enforcers would probably involve a tank dude with armor and a bearded general or elegant ikemen. Doubt it could be two twinky teens or guys with colorful crazy hair styles.

So the real question is: would I still like them if the designs clashed with their roles? Would Vampire Dies in No Time be just as good if Draluc looked like a typical bishounen? I cannot imagine it.

tl;dr: Primarily dynamics for me, though dynamics and designs usually depend on the roles and personalities so it's kind of one thing to me. I don't go into a series considering someone particularly attractive before I witness them on screen. I like their jokes, interactions or personalities first and that's what eventually makes them seem hot to me.

>>4853
So do you think there is an ugly duckling appeal in your ships? Do you like the idea of say a character initially not being attracted to one party but through the interactions they learn to love anyway or does the perceived "ugliness" of the character play no role in the ship and it is purely an element of the role they play in the greater narrative?

I get what you're saying with specific archetypes not tending to have the bishounen beauty but I still think within those roles there is a difference between "This is a mature man designed to be ruggedly attractive" and "this is a mature man designed to be scruffy."

>>4857
nta but Draluc is supposed to be an out of his prime old man, his character wouldn't work if he was young and hot, for a compassion think of those old school BL's where the entire cast had one or two body and facial types but we were expected to believe one character was somehow more beautiful cause he had more sparkles on him

>>4878
Actually as a high vampire Draluc is a young man, he's just emaciated because of his condition.

I'd been avoiding opening this thread because I never like this topic (in the past I always saw it turn into arguments about perceived elitism), but I saw 94 and had to open. Skimming what's been said there's one thing that hasn't been mentioned.

Personally I'm a dynamics shipper, I can't get into a pair unless there's a scenario to build but I'm very adept at pulling something out of any match up. A number of characters I've liked/shipped have been considered ugly by other people I talk to, even ones I'm fairly sure are conventional ikemen. I don't think any characters I've gotten into shipping are actually "ugly." Maybe the fanart beautifies them, but I have this stupid subconscious sense that they can't be ugly if I don't have a certain reaction to their appearance, the repulsion someone else mentioned, and when you like the personality of a character or the jokes around them you easily see their design as just an interesting, positive design. No repulsion at all.

However if I think about characters I do find ugly my brain goes immediately to the kind of yume and shippers who you might call edgelords for their taste. The kind who seem to deliberately pick unpopular characters to make into their online persona, and the kind who are expressly into "problematic" and "dark" things like serial killers and cannibalism. They're not always the same people but there's some crossover, and there's a lot of western titles that end up as figureheads for these fandoms. I wonder if it's because I don't know the characters well that I consider them unappealing, or that the design sense is too far from my usual anime/manga.

But there's always a few where I'm pretty sure they really, really tried to pick a random character to obsess over because he looks like a balding creep. I can't be the only one who thinks it's performative, esp when the personality ends up the same woobified nonsense. I don't think I could ever ship those characters not because they are ugly but because I'm not given enough of who they are in a positive light, that is actually them and not a fan's sanitized "my cutesy pootsy" garbage. As such I agree that we tend to design characters to purpose, and the more an author thinks of a character the more likely their design will have charm. I don't just mean shit like Komatsu in Toriko who gets better looking as the series went on (for the shippers or because the author preferred it? Who knows), but I think people make good designs when they find a character fun. That fun comes across whether the design is conventionally attractive or not. Truly ugly designs are not made for characters who have tender relationships.

Also when you set out to make a pretty guy sometimes you can just make them hella bland. Charm is the real winner, and charm comes from gestures, expressions, etc.

>>4896
I agree with both points. First of all that the dynamic is the main thing. I cannot think of ANY case where I was ever attracted to a character or ship before getting into their dynamics and personalities. I might maybe (rarely) think "cool design", but that's it. The obsession only starts after I started sympathizing with both of the characters individually and saw the dynamics.

The other thing is that ugliness is very subjective, especially with anime. I saw non-fans calling some of the characters mentioned here (like Draluc, Sadamune, Tsurumi or even Reigen, just as an example) "stupid looking" or "ugly" but none of them are. Thing is that the standard anime design is so doll-like that every skinny or older character or every dude with beard and some actual facial features like a visible bone structure or an uncommon simplistic or "western" artstyle might get called "ugly". I think that fans don't even mean it, they do it for fun or to set them apart from the generic looking dudes.
My point just is that pop culture is focused on k-pop tier idols and anime characters that lots of dudes that would be genuinely handsome IRL are considered ugly by the anime fandom.

Think the only men I love that I would call.. maybe not actually sexy are Tsukishima (I love his design, but before I loved it I considered him ugly lol) due to his weird face and
Harrier Du Bois. But the more anime I watch and games I play the more I associate common pretty guys with blandness. Maybe I am getting older, maybe I just watched so much that getting tired is normal. But most characters aren't expressive enough for me and lack uniqueness. I am happier when the dudes I ship have weird but unique design that makes them special. I ship them and know "this only works with them".

But my biggest problem with most anime is the lack of expression and charisma. Maybe it's a lack of social skill from the author's side, maybe they don't care and solely bank on pretty designs. I don't know, but if all a character does is standing there, throwing a cool line and looking nice I won't ever feel anything for them.