No.4947
Anyway, answering nonna's question from elsewhere because this is more of a fujotism response but yes, I'm planning RMR anthology. Technically, in some essence it could be a "zine" but I don't like how western zines work and how people-dependant they are (plus, this is a small ship so I doubt it'd get that much crowdfunding). Anthologies get made regardless if people are participating or not, so I'm scheduling an anthology for maybe late next year or 2027 hoping that there's people still interested in the game or ship by then.
Rather than sit around and whine about things I don't like being popular, I'm putting my effort into seeing the thing I like have quality works, even if it's at the expense of myself because holy fuck it's not cheap to do everything alone, but I do it for them
No.4949
>>4947i see! small friends-based or invite-only projects are always better than a "zine" imo
even if i've seen people get asshurt over the exclusion jdfsjdf. i mean even just from a quality perspective, you can better curate the vibe of the anthology without outside influence from other "mods" or the "community."
also i personally think most western zines are kinda fugly in terms of art and design? oftentimes the layouts are so glaringly "overdone" compared to any jp anthologies i own. not to mention the drama. granted, i don't think there are many western metaphor zines rn? only one in production?
but presumably new fans will play the game in that time period… statistically, i'd think some of them would have to end up liking ruimoa.
at least, i feel like at least one new fan has popped up recently on the eng side in recent months. i'm not sure if it will ever be the Biggest Ship Ever but even those who enjoy it now will probably be interested in purchasing if you make it available to everyone.
No.4950
>>4949>even if i've seen people get asshurt over the exclusion jdfsjdfIs this about the Metaphor Zine, or something else, like Zines in general? Because I've definitely seen it in general but not regarding the Metaphor Zine
though I did apply before and got rejectedWhat I don't like about western zines is all the logistics surrounding them like needing a finance mod, a shipping mod, a mod for every little thing when it's not that serious imho. Chinese anthologies too are also similar to jp, if not more fic-friendly than jp (I still don't know exactly why, but fic is more appreciated in china than in other type of zines) and comissioned artwork is accepted which everyone seems to do.
I can understand needing a big team when it's a massively popular thing that you need to ship over 10k books worldwide, but small fandoms don't need that much.
>granted, i don't think there are many western metaphor zines rn? only one in production?There's a Louis-focused one that seems amazing on paper but it's about him "being like Lucifer, and everything regarding his demonic relevancy" which
I disagree, he's not like Lucifer.Kinda mad that the only Louis zine is about this and not actually about him in proper canon nglThere's definitely still people wanting to play the game until it gets discounted 50% or more, so there'll be people who may or may not get interested in it. I know for sure ruimoa will never be anywhere near strowill/louwill level of popularity nor do I expect it to, but I don't want it to not exist. Though, it seems that it's not as unpopular anymore all things considered. Still not popular on Eng for sure though, I still see people call it "problematic"
No.4952
>>4950i was talking about exclusion in general
eg., in persona fandom specifically, there was an invite-only shuake zine that included only big name fans at the time.not to get ot but that same zine i mentioned above actually had nearly all their funds wiped out by the former head mod before anything was delivered; she spent $20k of zine money on gacha/food and they had to fundraise to get it back. so on that front, even for massively popular zines, how helpful are big teams if everyone's putting blind trust in each other? (and realistically, aren't the mods of these things usually a bunch of 20-somethings or younger who are still in school?)
>it's about him "being like Lucifer, and everything regarding his demonic relevancy"i forgot about the louis zine. shows how much i care lmao. awhile back they answered an anon ask about this and said it was "open to interpretation," smt lucifer or biblical or whatever. it's a narrow theme for a character-centric zine that could have explored all facets of his personality and life. i also think it's one of those free digital zines.
i will say that ruimoa week seemingly outperformed strowill and louwill week in creation and effort alone. i know they're still going on but the momentum is a lot quieter… so even if people are calling RM problematic (i haven't seen that since the thing a few months back though), there's that going for it. No.4956
>>4953i don't categorize myself as "proship" because i think the separation is stupid and invites harassment, but by strict definition alone it's obvious i fit that category, so i just block all mtp antis on sight.
anyone with a laundry list of DNIs like that is getting blocked, SW mod included. i want to gossip more but i don't want to be a bitch even in this
semi- anon space, but basically
based on some tweets, i think the LW(L) mod was disappointed by the lack of interaction in their week. maybe it really is dying out on the english side. No.4957
>>4956Unless a mod comes and specifically says to not use the thread to talk I don't think it matters imo. There's definitely other threads around where it looks like only 2 anons talking to each other so I don't think it matters much, the activity is probably welcomed if anything. Also, if you've seen the rest of the site bitching shouldn't be a problem.
Which, speaking of, I will reply to what you said WITH bitching regarding louwill.
>maybe it really is dying out on the english side.I will be straightfoward and blunt with it which I likely already said earlier in the thread, people only like the ship for porn. And only porn. Without porn, nobody cares. And even with porn, people aren't caring all that much anymore. Most people who like LW on the eng-side aren't creators, only consumers. Without a good amount of recognizable creators, it's bound to fail. If someone with proper management promoted the week event more (because it wasn't promoted at all), I'm sure some other people would have joined, but the timeframe used is also not benefitial. It was created as a spur-of-the-moment thing, right when people are having their finals weeks before the holidays so even worse time to give people room to breathe.
The same can be said about SW, although SW is actually popular enough to get some people to do things for it on the eng side. Most of the eng "enjoyers" of LW have moved on to different things or don't have creative drive.
Speaking of creative things,
I tried to join the MTF SS event but my request was louicest guro and it seems most people in the fandom are too sfw and safe and wanting cutesy things so I may have to drop out of that one…. No.4958
>>4957theoretically, three-ish months should have been enough time for LW week to promote, prepare, and take off. it was officially announced the same month as RM week (
though obviously the diehard RMers were already aware of the week way beforehand). i think the lack of graphics for promotion AND lack of promotion to fans outside of eng-speaking fandom is part of what killed it. idk how aware of english events jp and cn LWLers are, if at all.
out of curiosity, i took a look at what's happening in the LW tag on ao3 as of today. there are ~50 explicit fics (on ao3 at least) in total, so a little under half of their total fics are smut.
as for the SS…
i was too scared to sign up. too many randoms have me blocked so i can't feasibly put them all in the "do not match." i only like a handful of pairings anyway–the pool of people i could write for is quite low to begin with. it's meant to be fun and i'm sure it COULD be but open fandom events make me anxious, i'd rather write for a small group of friends or a much larger group where i don't know anyone at all. did you ask for any other prompts besides
louicest guro??? i thought you had to provide at least two prompts on the form.
fwiw i like sfw and cutesy things too (don't you? www), but for a game with a decent amount of violence and body horror–louis literally
getting impaled by a lance and fucking "dying"; hyth getting stabbed and murdered in bed; zorba
transforming into a human, etc, you'd think there'd be more eroguro or at least more things that toe that line a little.
No.4960
>>4958>AND lack of promotion to fans outside of eng-speaking fandom is part of what killed it. idk how aware of english events jp and cn LWLers are, if at all.This is only a thing that I know about exclusively by myself, because I'm the one pushing the CN-adjacent side of RM(R) fans the most. It is in fact not actually common for cn/jp fans to interact with eng people at all, they all do their own thing (like right now, there's the equivalent of a strowill week in japan, under a "online doujin event").
The only way cn/jp/kr could gather together in something is if a ship/franchise is so extremely niche there is nobody else doing it. And I mean *actual* niche, something in the vein of, say, a forgotten 80s anime or something with only 2-3 fans in the stratosphere all 40+ years old.
Plus, both jp and cn are very protective of top/bottom so an event that mixes or allows "any position" would also not be liked by them. Most jp stick exclusively to themselves and those around them, that seems to be the case in the LW/STWL side of the fandom in all languages. Even the Kr don't interact with Jp LW or CN LW don't interact with Jp or Kr, etc. Even within Jps, it seems some Jp don't vibe with each other if their views of LW don't match either.
RM
barely having all of it's fans together is really because it's a ship so niche if we're all apart it'd be sad when we should all be enjoying it together.
except I don't care about the jp side except for my friend currently MIA
>was too scared to sign up. too many randoms have me blocked so i can't feasibly put them all in the "do not match."I simply put "don't want anything from people with proship dni views, and
anyone who ships louwill/louprince" so that filters 90% of participants…which actually only bothers me because I think I may not get anyone at all lmao, my friend did put "
people uncomfortable with shota" so she filters even more people. I did put far too many things in the form which I regret a little bit and should've been more concise because even though I like something like
shuouji, I'm not sure I'd want it as a gift specially from someone I don't know…
I wasn't going to join but the fact that gore was allowed intrigued me although the amount of people willing to do gore is basically 0 and very hardly is there a character fitting for whump.
Well, Louis is definitely perfect for it and your examples given also work but most people wouldn't be willing to do it anyway…
No.4966
>>4960hmm, i know it's not common for asian fans to chat with english fans, but lately i do see some interaction. idk what's really happening too much in LW spaces but sometimes i see the same few people on my FYP trying to break the language barrier by replying directly to fanart tweets in jp or kr. it seems these artists are reciprocal and polite, but it's not on the same level as RM that you describe. i don't think anyone is making any real friendships.
we've probably talked about this before elsewhere or maybe it's only something i've mentioned broadly, but because the circle of people with RM as their OTP is so small, it's actually kind of
strange? lonely? anxiety-inducing?for example, as you describe with the JP LWers, if they don't vibe with a specific interpretation, they're able to avoid that specific group of fans and find another group that better suits them. but with RM, there's really no group A, group B, or group C, and instead as a matter of getting along for the sake of the ship, everyone presumably plays nice together. but aren't some people probably thinking something like,
"wow, this interpretation of RM is really fucking terrible. why do i have to share a space with this idiot?" the fact that MR and RM can coexist is actually a bit surprising (?), but i think most english-speaking RM fans are riba at least.
>very hardly is there a character fitting for whump. TRULY i think metaphor is ripe for whump!!!! cat brothers definitely; zorba possibly; louis of course. i don't care enough about will or strohl to consider them specifically, and i don't think moa is very whumpable just on principle, though his existence in akademeia is kind of a psychological whump if you squint…
No.4967
>>4966More is definitely whumpable but I love him too much to see him suffer
more than he already does anyway.Will and Strohl are also definitely whumpable but I don't care much about them to think about it, except
for Strohl maybe he's cute when he suffers too.On the topic of bad interpretations and whump though, the only thing I disagree is how JP RM seems to think RM is entirely non-con without feelings/love in it, but that's only purely because the 4-5 people spreading that just ship something else and don't actually care about Hyth fully. Some can "come around" once in a blue moon, but overall ehhh….
I can enjoy RM noncon from time to time but it's not all it has. And when it comes to shota Louis, even jp don't think about it much either for some reason.
Being into RM does feel very anxiety inducing at least for me because I genuinely care about both characters involved and while there's an overwhelming surplus of Louis fans (most of which likely only see the pair as 'wow more louis content') there's not many who like More, and those few who like More either only simply see him as a Old man/Dad (therefore unfuckable and unshippable) or goonbait to put moid tier fetishes into (ignoring everything else).
And also because there's this weird feeling that you think you're doing something wrong for shipping it but that's just meSome cn
shuruis can come around moarui slightly which is at least more accepting than jp.
No.4968
>>4967i don't like ascribing *all* fetish stuff as goonerbait because i do think smut can be created with both care and nuance in the right circumstances with the right story (really good psychological smut is my absolute favorite), and honestly even then i think stupid ott porn has a right to exist–
i just won't click on it. BUT lately a lot of the jp group writes these frankly insane-ass posts that just make me go ??? who are these characters. i think a lot of the problem for me is disliking the big bad rapist characterization of louis in general. even in a noncon scenario with louis and more, i don't think it would be as cut-and-dry as it's often described?
louis would prioritize more's pleasure… he'd also top from the bottom. but that's just my thought alsjdads speaking of jp, i will say
iizu-san's r18 shumoa dj was perfectly fine. did you read it?
No.4970
>>4968I definitely read it and own it, it's really good. The small booklet she released was also very nice, I wish she wasn't so shumoa pilled sometimes so she could see the appeal of rm a bit further but she cares enough about More so that's appreciated.
I was going to post the booklet image but maybe on another chance.I dislike the great majority of top-louis characterization tbh and while I do think he could be very cruel (specially towards More) he probably does it while having an internal breakdown about it.
I was making a doujin exactly about this, that's almost close to 1++ year old idea that I've been wanting to make where Louis does nc More but he rationalizes it because he never paid attention to him and perceives abandonment since the moment More married the QueenIt's not just the lz-rm group that says weird things, but I see it from jp lw all the time also which makes me not know whether I'm more delusional for caring for the characters to this level or if I'm seeing something they're not seeing.
No.4979
>>4970i own the booklet as well!
i wanted it so badly, even moreso than the shumoa itself. i ended up with two of the dj, one of the booklet… i ended up sending one of the djs to my friend.i'm not sure what sort of nonsense jp lw is saying (i can only imagine) but to be frank i do think most fans don't interact with fandom "seriously." instead it's just something to pass the time–something to read, watch, play, or look at, and,
in some cases, get off to, then it's on to the next thing when that becomes boring.
to meme about it,
you have to have a very high IQ to understand RM…BUT it's not even just a metaphor fandom problem, though it feels extra obvious here because it's quieter and smaller. most of the thoughts people have aren't based in critical thinking; the average fan isn't looking at the narrative or plot beats in any in-depth way. they have nothing particularly poignant or special to say about the story, but instead, "waw, so-and-so is hot" and then they make up an OC and then self-insert. what ever happened to finding the canon relationships compelling? do they even like the story or characters at all, especially when suddenly the canon characters aren't recognizable? this is OT now lmao but just my general gripe with the state of fandom today.
i also dislike that mtp fujos are expected to interact with mtp yumes, or that suddenly now we're all in the same space? why am i expected to gaf about your OC?ahh
ty for sharing the wips of your dj! it looks beautiful, both art and story (even if it's nc).actually,
looking at the line "i could keep the image of you still pristine […]", i'm reminded that i've always really liked the idea of louis viewing more as someone "pure" as part of his compartmentalization of him as someone to be idolized. like, even just beyond the obvious sexual context of more's relationship with the queen, but when thinking about ruimoa in general. i think that louis's inability to view more as a person with his own life and troubles basically led to louis's downfall.
deleted and fixed my typo No.4980
>>4979On one hand, I'm somewhat glad that the Metaphor fandom isn't as big as the Persona fandom because being into Persona has been hell in the past several years, but on the other it is sad that it's not even like…big enough on it's own either, because lack of people also means lack of fans and fan content and Atlus isn't exactly doing a good job keeping player retention with a dogshit manga and abandoning their anthologies/drama CDs type of approach that they haven't done in several years (although they asked in the poll survey if you wanted to see those again).
>what ever happened to finding the canon relationships compelling? do they even like the story or characters at all, especially when suddenly the canon characters aren't recognizable? As you said this is a general fandom problem nowadays but keeping it in the context of the MTF fandom, it's actually the most common. It's exactly because people don't want to think too hard about the story that instead people would rather make an OC/become a yume. Because people want to fuck the characters but don't have the commitment to think about them harder than normal.
It's good that I can post about that here because the /vg/ sperg schizo hates 'characterfagging autism' when that's the bread and butter of atlus games ffs. It's not just yumeing or making OCs, but sometimes people's writing of the canon characters is so ooc it may as well be an OC entirely. I know that Will doesn't have the biggest most compelling character ever (and barely has character, intentionally so) but you could work with what little he does have canonically in some capacity instead of making him a designated actual self-insert.
>or that suddenly now we're all in the same space? why am i expected to gaf about your OC?It comes with being an extremely small fandom sadly, that's why. Everyone is expected to get along, despite all landmines and NOTPs, but I just couldn't handle being around someone who twists the characters that much. There's a level of enjoyment to be had in fan creation in which we're all deluluing shit in several degrees, some more delusional than others but when the delusion grows too much that there's no trace of the original character anymore, that's when it gets annoying.
No.4981
>>4980>body too long message againAnyway, to bring a non-metaish point and back to fujoing, I still like
zorba/louis, but so so SO many of Zorba fans don't look past his devotion to Louis and just keep his character as "Louis's designated girlfriend" and that's it. The jp are the worst offenders of this because they want the pair to be soft vanilla lovey-dovey "nothing ever happened" bad which is fine in some indulgent cases but not all the time. It's a pair that could be explored more, which brings me to your point
>i think that louis's inability to view more as a person with his own life and troubles basically led to louis's downfall.This is also how I see Zorba's thoughts regarding Louis. That relationship of one-sided devotion is very common with rm-zr and it's definitely interesting but nobody wants to actually treat it as anything other than just master-servant sex. Which again, the problem with the fandom being small is that you notice that as long as 3 people share one collective thought for a pair, that representation of the pair will be all the content there is of it No.4984
>>4981>abandoning their anthologies/drama CDs type of approach that they haven't done in several years (although they asked in the poll survey if you wanted to see those again).i'll be curious to see what, if anything, comes out of that survey. i went pretty hard on asking for all those old things again and for metaphor specifically. i don't remember p5 having as many drama CDs as earlier personas (p3 had a ton at least), so i wonder if that is becoming a less popular media nowadays? i have no idea.
>zorbawith zorba, the problem i often see is a lack of thinking about him as an actual character beyond a shipping context. i do blame the game’s writing here, but even with 90% of his dialogue being louis-centric or close enough, there are other things to consider regarding his character…. like his being half-mustari and half-clemar. for instance, what went on in his parents’ relationship, and how did that shape him?
like, i seriously do think he could be the result of a pregnancy from rape–a clemar man taking advantage of a mustari woman and leaving her to deal with it wouldn’t be unheard of in this universe imo… or even things like: what made zorba decide to join the army? or when/how he did he learn necromancy? or what are his relationships like with others, outside of louis specifically? OR just basic shit about him having parallels to will, who is also half-clemar but with overly defining characteristics that make him appear more like the “lesser” tribe. sigh.
of course these things could just as easily tie into his devotion to louis, and it’s not even that I dislike rz or zr (
i’ve written it, after all), but it sometimes seems zorba’s depiction in fandom is actually worse off than louis because oftentimes he’s just filling some uke slot for louis without any rhyme or reason for it.
zorba is in my top three favs so it makes me a little sad.similarly, even from louis’s side regarding zorba, there isn’t much in the way of exploring his feelings either. like you say, zorba’s inability to view louis as anything other than ~*Lord Louis*~ is what hinders him, so how exactly is louis viewing zorba in return? and why does he choose to feed zorba more information as opposed to, say, someone like fidelio, who seems just as as capable but more able to view louis as a person?
No.4985
>>4984>>4984>i don't remember p5 having as many drama CDs as earlier personas (p3 had a ton at least), so i wonder if that is becoming a less popular media nowadays? i have no idea.yeah, it really doesn't which baffles me… It did get a few before royal but after royal I think Atlus completely stopped doing otaku fuel material which is sad. They didn't even make a Royal OVA whilist Golden did get theirs.
The Metaphor live stage sounds like a cute thing for banter between VAs but
More isn't in it despite being the actual narrator of the game so who gaf……………
>spoileryeah that's definitely 100% what happened, which would explain why he holds quite the contempt for clemars and also why he has no sense of self-worth and thus why he relies on Louis so much exactly due to this lack of self-worth, seeing himself as purely a pawn to be used. I like bas/zorba conceptually a lot because it does seem like Basilio TRIED to talk with Zorba before, but most obviously Zorba kept rejecting him. Fidelio really never liked him, Glodel who knows but likely also didn't like him. It's still interesting to think about the Charadrius crew as a whole, and I think there's a lot of potential with them but sadly we'll never see how they were in all those years under Louis…
People like to say that Louis 'returns zorba's feelings because he's the only one who understood him' but I disagree, being exaggeratedly devoted doesn't equal to true understanding or equalship and I think even zorba himself realized this himself, hence why complaining that Louis wasn't looking his way/giving him attention. I think Louis did trust the brothers a lot, specially Fidelio
when he was alive, probably more than he does/did Zorba. Also he seems that he did genuinely like Junah in his own kinda way enough to let her do whatever too. That's why Louis is such an enigma because he acts like he doesn't care/uninterested but when he's faced with the consequences of his actions he does seem disappointed. I think we just see him more with Zorba only during the later half of the game because…well, he's the only remaining person of his entourage
that isn't dead or deflected, but the thing is that Louis doesn't even make a remark or anything regarding Zorba
being dead too, so it makes him appear very detached again. Like, not even a snarky remark or anything.
No.4991
>>4985>live stageeven without more, i was thinking of purchasing and watching the live stage. i'm not usually one of those fans who is super gung-ho about supporting a franchise with my wallet, but with metaphor i want to in the hopes that my meager $20 or whatever contributes in showing that fans are interested and would want more content like this in the future.
but also–not even just with the lack of otaku fuel, but overall the direction atlus is moving towards in general feels very ??? to me. or, rather, it feels a bit stagnant… the current formula works well and yeah god knows i always fall for it, but i do hope maybe with metaphor’s success studio zero continues branching out even further with new concepts.
consecutive remakes from atlus is a bit much at this point, like p4/p4g holds up perfectly fine today, though i get the trend in media overall rn is nostalgia for nostalgia’s sake.
>people like to say that Louis 'returns zorba's feelings because he's the only one who understood him' hm, interesting opinion from people. i don’t think that understanding someone has to necessarily mean returning feelings, so even if louis was the only person who saw potential in zorba, treated him fairly, or understood anything about his previous hardships, that doesn’t mean suddenly these crazy intense feelings are now reciprocal. like on one hand i guess i can see why this would be a logical conclusion if someone was looking for a way to ship them romantically, but in that same vein i always have trouble viewing louis as a particularly romantic or sexual person in the first place, especially in-game when so much shit is going on.
caveat: the whole deal with more being an anomaly obviously, though even that feels complicated and beyond sex/romance like you said, louis is portrayed as uncaring, though i sort of view it as very “neutral” or even merely observant. looking at louis’s relationships with others who are presumably close to him only solidifies my belief in his feelings towards more, honestly—the only explicit or loud displays of emotion from louis seem to be related to the king, even if tangentially… it’s still related.
so fwiw, i do think louis has, like?? fond? feelings for zorba, but it’s likely platonic, similar to any other quiet but fond feelings he has for the rest of the crew.
No.4993
>>4991i wrote too much, here's the rest
>I like bas/zorba conceptually a lot because it does seem like Basilio TRIED to talk with Zorba before, but most obviously Zorba kept rejecting him. this ship is interesting to me (as are zorba’s interactions with the rest of the crew tbh), but there’s not much of in the way of anything like that being written afaik. i think zorba kept rebuffing basilio because he thinks so lowly of himself to the point where he believes no one would want anything to do with him on a non-transactional level. friendship seems beyond his capabilities, emotionally. after so much of this, fidelio prob told basilio to stop bothering…
i agree it’s sad we’ll never get any stories about how the crew interacts, or more context on how each member joined up with louis, or anything like that. back to my earlier point, i think this sort of thing would be perfect for an anthology from atlus or CDs and yet… nothing.
No.4994
>>4991>but with metaphor i want to in the hopes that my meager $20 or whatever contributes in showing that fans are interested and would want more content like this in the future. same, unfortunately I do this with merch and the precise fucking character I like is being removed out of all pieces of merch and it's becoming harder to care for buying official merch…. specially when fanmerch has so much love and care put into it instead.
I think Atlus is in it's worst period currently which is funny because during the period they were scared of bankruptcy (and did go bankrupt) they kept churning game after game. They don't know what to do anymore, besides milking P5 to the point they'll make milk out of cow bones if they must.
>but in that same vein i always have trouble viewing louis as a particularly romantic or sexual person in the first place, especially in-game when so much shit is going on. Same, which I guess is also why in most fanworks he seems very detached/uncaring or a "prop" seme that is simply there to be fucking without the emotional attachment because people can't figure out how does he care about people. And in the opposite side, a very overtly emotional Louis is also very ooc too.
That Louis has some semblance of care towards Zorba I don't doubt, specially after staying alone until the end, but for these feelings to be romantic I don't think so. I like the pair as a very semi-toxic one-sided thing the best, which strips it of most "romantic" concepts and it feels damaging for both (enabler and enabled) but that's when it's most interesting imo
>>4993I think it's exactly because Zorba would reject Basilio so throuroughly that it makes the pair interesting to me. Like Basilio being so insistent to the point of irritation to Zorba and even Fidelio telling him it's not worth it, like the type of person that wants to be friends with someone no matter what even if the other person clearly doesn't want to but they still keep going, that kinda thing. It can be done well, at least that's how I see it.
Everyone in the Charadrius crew is honestly much more interesting than the main crew, and characters like basilio and junah don't feel nearly as interesting when they are with Will than when they were with Louis. Specially Junah, I used to not like her as much when I finished the game but now I'm more curious about her during her time with Louis… No.5003
>>4999you could try writing or talking about it yourself? it's not as if there aren't people willing to have the conversation (literally we just had a week-long conversation in this very thread), but i think it just depends on what you want to discuss
like mentioned earlier the fandom is small so it'll seem dead compared to most things
No.5004
>>5003I’m not much of a writer or an artist unfortunately. Plus I’m not really sure how I would even go about writing any of these ships I’m interested in. That’s why I was looking for anything on AO3 or social media.
I was surprised it wasn’t more popular, that’s all.
No.5024
>nonna got too scared to post
noooo……
No.5110
Speaking of zines again, someone's about to unveil a louwill zine.
It wasn't enough that the ship week flopped, now there has to be a zine? I'm pretty sure who's behind it too. Oh well, maybe that's where all the funds from the normal metaphor zine are going lol
No.5111
>>5110did someone advertise this already, or were you just searching louwill and happened upon it?
lmao i haven't heard anything about it, and it looks like someone i know is involved. granted, they prob didn't mention it to me bc they know i don't fuck with this ship. anyway, you're prob joking but i think the normal zine funds are for charity (i forgot which).
that reminds ME though… i saw someone on red note the other day calling louwill "a cold CP" haha okay sure
No.5113
>>5112oh was it a sr fan? i didn't pay attention to who it was coming from, it only showed up randomly on my explore page.
frankly, with all my heart, i don't think you should let a single zine for a
silly, zero canon basis ship deter you. aren't you working on several other projects? won't they be grander,
with likely better art and writing? this is really just a blip… there will always be people shipping other, bigger pairings, and so just by virtue of being interested in a smaller niche ship, it's easy to feel slighted or demotivated because of it, but i don't think that HAS to mean anything.
besides, didn't your event last month go well? No.5115
>>5113Money doesn't grow on trees, anon. One person doing everything alone isn't enough, and I don't have it in me to continue.**>didn't your event last month go well?
I didn't make it, and I don't really consider it significant. It was by someone else and if they enjoyed it, that's fine.**
I think there's reasons why there's ships remain that unpopular, so it's best to accept it as something that won't have content anymore.
No.5116
>>5115> one person doing everything alone isn't enoughi'm confused because from my outsider perspective, it looks like
you have a large (well, "large" in relative terms) and bustling group of friends still interested in the ship, happily willing to participate in whatever is set up. it was never very popular on the eng end, even when i joined, and i do feel it stagnated from lack of community on our side, which i won't get into here but just in general i know i don't have anyone to talk to and there's no discussion happening unless i go out of my way to talk to someone. i don't think the lack of content is why it isn't popular, because the week didn't gain any new fans as far as i saw, but was still appreciated by current fans.
again, i'm sorry you're feeling so down about it.
No.5118
>>5116It may look like that, but in truth the same thing happens on this side too where there's not much discussion. Although one of my friends is capable of talking about it every day on their own.And usually, even if I really want to make something in collaboration with somebody, most of the time it won't occur due to a lot of factors.In fact, every single RMR fan doing work for it right now, all of them have thought of stopping. E, M, G, F, etc. N is fine, but interested in something else now. The reception and self-loathing that comes in liking a niche ship isn't just a me problem, but all of us have been facing it for a long while, wondering if we're all simply wrong in liking itI thought you'd be talking about it a lot to other 'hidden' eng fans that I'm not aware of, because it always seems every Metaphor fan talks to each other more on DMs than in public, and there's always these 'I'm suddenly a fan of this thing' people that show up occasionally. (But it's only really because they like my friend's works).I think the lack of discussion and content (specially content imo) is definitely a factor of people losing interest in niche things. Even popular ships however, don't get the big numbers as they used to like strwill (but the quality of their works is also somewhat so-so now).In japan, the fandom is just the same 5 or so friends hyping each other, and so it feels "big" but it's also quite small.**I do wish more people gained interest in it, which is the major source of me trying to do so many projects for it, but if I'm wasting so much effort and a LOT of money into something that won't pay off, then I'd just give up.
Well I'll just tell my remaining friends to stop too.**
I keep fucking up spoilers a lot for some reason today damn.
No.5119
>>5118there's no secret eng community of fans that i know of.
you're right in that sometimes i talk to S via DM, but that's rare these days, as i think their interests are p broad rn. i know a few people that find RMR "interesting" but between us their interest isn't on the same level as at least me, so i don't think it's worth discussing deeply or at all. i feel like a conspiracy theorist if i do. that's usually when i come here to vent.
so the "sudden" fans definitely aren't from me, though i think there IS a new fan that's popped up recently on one of the discord servers, but idk them at all. so yeah, no i'm not talking about it to anyone, and haven't really in at least a month or longer on a consistent level.
i was a bit jealous thinking that you guys were having all this fun daily discussion elsewhere.however… RMR creators are just really talented. it does attract some people that way. i notice this with
your friend M's artwork especially. like i've mentioned before, RMR is sort of a "passing interest" and usually only a secondary ship to something else for a lot of people. to me that's a bit strange because it's like–oh, so you don't deny this ship makes sense? so i'm sure this sort of interaction from secondary shippers can be demoralizing to some creators who put their heart and soul into a ship work, only to have it regarded as an aperitif to pass the time until a real meal comes along…
similarly, if the desire is for more people to gain interest in RMR, how many of those people are going to be fans with RMR as their sole interest, or are able and willing to discuss it at such lengths at all? i just wonder what is it about this ship that only appeals to a certain few on that level.
thinking logically, maybe events or doujinshi aren't the way to get those sorts of people truly interested. it doesn't seem to spark discussion, at least, because it's just content to be consumed… it's common denominator stuff. any asshole can enjoy it by reading or looking. maybe there needs to be more avenues of communication for ship talk.
No.5120
>>5119>i was a bit jealous thinking that you guys were having all this fun daily discussion elsewhereThere's some of it a bit. You could talk to E or even M, they'll always have something to say about RMR, but E is definitely more fixated on MR.>only to have it regarded as an aperitif to pass the time until a real meal comes along…I think I've said it before, either here or elsewhere, but yes it feels bad. It feels as if people understand that Metaphor does have a bit of a content drought so they like anything that has Louis in it, but their real allegiance lies in something else. So it makes me feel as if my friends are being taken advantage of,
specially after how they were never noticed in the previous fandom we had.
>maybe there needs to be more avenues of communication for ship talk.I haven't been into a popular ship in an extremely long time, I think the last ship I ever liked that had some moderately big popularity was
a jojo ship but I never discussed it with anyone. I think most ship talks come with friends having other friends to talk, so other people see those friend groups talk and "try" to join in. "Mass" fandom group events are very sparse, and I think it is also usually by a chain of friends being behind it. Social media is also a factor of this, friends-only discords also, etc. The more niche something is, the more really only 5 people in the whole world will like it and either you manage to become friends with them or you don't… and if you don't, then you'll have to convince preexisting friends to do so.
But really, Metaphor is in a place where there's people who like their own respective ships, but even those ships which I don't like, don't have much discussion surrounding it. So it feels like a fandom that's only built on consumption, not discussion. And for an Atlus-adjacent fandom, it feels bizarre after years and years of P3P4P5 fandom shenanigans.
No.5125
>>5120>So it feels like a fandom that's only built on consumption, not discussion. And for an Atlus-adjacent fandom, it feels bizarre after years and years of P3P4P5 fandom shenanigansmaybe nupersona games came out during a time where fandom was at its heyday or close to it
before covid and the atmosphere was less tense. antis weren't really a thing, so it was easier to speak comfortably in public spaces like livejournal and tumblr instead of quietly in locked servers or DMs with pre-established friends.
honestly, there are a decent amount of people I've talked to in this fandom that I thought were antis or unapproachable just based on their social media or the fic they wrote, but after talking to them 1:1 they were actually completely fine with dead dove or incest or age gap or gore or whatever. and actually actively enjoyed that sort of content,
which is frustrating honestly after getting harassment. so maybe the witch hunt atmosphere has stifled interaction on a community level, too.
aside from that, mtp has a lot of story elements that aren't particularly cheery, especially if you want to chat about world building and culture… I mean, despite the game's setting being pretty dark, maybe people are hesitant to talk about fantasy racism and everything that goes with that in depth lol.
No.5126
>>5125that's such a cute ruichan ahhhhhhhI don't think witch hunts are a problem in metaphor fandom, although I've seen that the moment even something slightly problematic shows up, people complain about it so
personally, as someone whose entire friend group got doxxed I would rather not go through that again. Even if there's "good" people to talk with, I still wouldn't talk to them on principle of liking LW either way.
>aside from that, mtp has a lot of story elements that aren't particularly cheery,but it's funny because jp conversations never even talk about this, just loveydovey fluff scenarios with characters that won't even have those. Although I've definitely noticed that hesitation to get too deep into the plot or character backstories, hence why everyone prefers to just live in delusions
No.5143
searching RM on tumblr is such a strange experience, you'll have someone's beautiful art in one post but then on the next there will be someone else's shit-ass ship tier list with a tag about not shipping it bc "people made more a pedo" but liking the "symbolism"
why not censor the ship name so your hate doesn't show up in search?? sigh
No.5144
>>5143Do people seriously say that?
>look it up>it's trueThat's funny because literally 99% of all ruimoa is Louis pinning for More, not the other way around. This is actually not the first time I've seen some westerner hate it due to the age gap.
also lol of course it had to be a yumeAlso, this person is also the one that said
they hate Louis because it reminds them of an abusive ex they had which like, okay?
I feel like people are the ones being weird about it, and they also have the gall to go "like the art but I hate it", at that point just don't say anything then.
No.5146
>>5144>I feel like people are the ones being weird about it, and they also have the gall to go "like the art but I hate it", at that point just don't say anything then.that's the thing!!!! god!!! it's not my first time hearing someone dislike it solely bc of the age gap either. what's worse is that they want to like it, but "can't." like, the age-gap thought-police isn't going to get you??? but in order to absolve themselves of guilt for even being remotely interested, they feel the need to announce it to the world that they wouldn't daaaare ship it. i vented about this in another thread earlier but everyone thought i was talking about a completely different fandom.
plus i think
"ped" is a seriously strong word to use here. so where are they getting that from. who is writing/drawing a predator more??? lmao seriously, i can't think of anyone who's drawn or posted fic that has more explicitly, overtly returning feelings to ruichan anyway. even if it's implied, there's always still plausible deniability that it's one-sided, and anything reciprocal is with louis being older.
(the general shotacon and mommy fetish discussion within jp doesn't count, and i seriously doubt most people have seen that anyway.) No.5147
>>5146>5 minutes later>still thinking about thisBECAUSE IF ANYTHING IT'S LOUIS COMING ONTO MOAAA
No.5148
>>5146>>5147Are you the one that said they saw someone say they don't want to like art done by easterners? I had a feeling it could've been related to rm but I searched if "usual suspects" complained about rm and I found nothing but honestly, it's definitely par the course as what people on this fandom would say, I'm curious who the fuck said that because the only person obnoxious enough to say bullishit openly is that obnoxious western louizo artist and the yuki person who got into a fight with several Louis artistsComplaining about the age gap is funny because canonically, as how they stand now, it's a 24-something year old and a 50-something year old so the only predation being done here is Louis jumping on a poor old man's bones lol
I genuinely believe that there's people who legitimately don't know why Louis is drawn as a child together with More, they have internalized the Prince childhood friends garbage so much that they completely forget that Louis knew about More as a child. Every single art I've seen of pre-canon RM is literally all sfw, there's not a single person drawing them sexually neither on More's or Louis's side
yet so it's literally all fearmongering. I have a feeling it's jealousy too because "good art is being wasted on (thing I don't like)".
It's really the persona fandom all over again but idiots feel more emboldened because the fandom is smaller.
No.5149
>>5148yeah–though it was actually told to me secondhand by someone who had it said to them directly. so i don't know who was saying it outside of them being a LWer, because i raged out in the messenger's DMs instead of asking. now enough time has passed where i'd feel awkward going back and being like, "so… who said that so i can block them." but it was frankly a very strange and racist comment to make, even if said in private.who is the western ruizo artist you're thinking of?
>Every single art I've seen of pre-canon RM is literally all sfw, there's not a single person drawing them sexually neither on More's or Louis's side yetnattorio has drawn some kinda borderline precanon RM stuff, i think, but iirc everyone's clothed… then again, people might be taking ruichan innocently kissing more on the cheek as borderline, too. actually, i think the most blatant nsfw i've seen of a younger louis is from a cn shurui artist.
>I have a feeling it's jealousy too because "good art is being wasted on (thing I don't like)".it's definitely this but god forbid anyone pick up a pen and learn to draw or pay for commissions themselves
No.5150
>>5149There's a funny irony in being a LWer and complaining about age gaps because if Will was exactly 1 year younger or 14 like originally intended they'd be trying to cope their way into how they "totally don't ship LW" despite liking it in secret. Fandom hypocrisy at it's finest.Also, if they even knew the kind of things jp artists say about that ship too kekThere is only one western LZ artist entirely, it's one that always complains about peole not drawing dark skinned characters dark enough and calls everything 'yuri'.
>then again, people might be taking ruichan innocently kissing more on the cheek as borderline, too.I've seen people complain about G's art noveau-esque RM's where they are literally just standing together and how it's proof it's a 'pedo' ship. I just find it utterly ridiculous how they could be doing literally nothing and people would complain.
Back to the fact that it's usually if not always Louis coming on to More (which is the point), the ship hinges on the fact that Louis used to admire/have feelings for More but these were never reciprocated. That's pretty much the basis of the ship but none of these people care about shipping in the first place.